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marco883
4th February 2005, 07:23
Has anybody tried Race Tech emulators? http://www.racetech.com/shopping/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=17&subcat=8&cat=Gold+Valve+Cartridge+Emulators&L2=Forks&L3=Gold+Valve+Cartridge+Emulators
What springs did you use and for what weight? I've read about them, seems like they might work well. Do they help on braking, cornering, and rebound? I'm using SE fork oil and added a SE fork brace (really stiffened up the front end) would like a little more control. Are they better than just using Progressive springs and damping rods? I like to ride twisties.
Thanks, Mark

marco883
5th February 2005, 16:54
I'm still trying to figure out if its worth doing emulators or change to 1200S externally adjustable cartridge forks. If the "S" forks are still available they would run about $500.00 - $600.00, and install would be relatively simple. Emulators with springs, seals, etc, would run about $350.00 plus some bench time along with the R&R. Post install fine tuning adjustments sound like a bit of work?
Is all this just hype and are Progressive springs just fine for control during cornering and hard braking? Ironicaly I just changed my fork oil (SE) and installed a dual disc kit about 500 mi ago. I'm sure anything would be an improvement over stock suspension? Any thoughts, comments, experience would be appreciated? :tour

Turbota
5th February 2005, 17:08
Those emulators may be the hot ticket, but they certainly are a lot of work to install from what I understand.

I went the easier route and just installed a set of Pregressive fork springs and Bel-Ray 15w fork oil. That did stop a lot of the front end dive and gives better overall control in turns.

Changing out the rear shocks to 1200-S shocks seemed to have the greatest impact on the ride. Not harsh like it was before, and no bottoming out at all. I think the 1200-S rear shocks have more total travel than the stock shocks.

Ron,

marco883
6th February 2005, 02:03
Ron,
Thanks for the input, went for a ride today and some of our roads are pretty rough. I think in cold weather the SE fork oil maybe kinda heavy (really jack-hammered), maybe cartridge or emulators would help. At least the dive is negligable when cold. I'd love to use S shocks in back, but I'm vertically challenged so I'm using 11 1/2" Progressive 412's. I suppose I could cut some S shocks down but will lose lots of travel? Something to think about. I'll try to post some pics of the new look.

Joe S.
8th February 2005, 05:27
I have the emulators in my '01 FXD and the 1200S forks on my '05 XL.
IMHO, the 1200S forks are far and away the better set up, ride compliance is better and you have adjustability.
Either method is a great improvement over stock and I don't mean to say the emulators are not quite good. I will tell you though that if I had realized there was that much difference I would have went with the FXDX forks on my Superglide while I was rebuilding it after its accident.
Not sure what cost difference you might encounter, I got the 1200S legs on 'sale' for about $250 each and then I also got a set of springs from Racetech to get them more suitable for my over 200lb weight.

marco883
8th February 2005, 05:58
Thanks Joe,
Did you feel that the "S" forks needed firmer springs? I'm thinking about the "S" forks over the emulators. I wonder what the FXDX forks would be like on a Sporty? Are they longer and firmer sprung? Was thinking of using clip-ons above triple-t's.
Mark

Joe S.
10th February 2005, 06:15
Thanks Joe,
Did you feel that the "S" forks needed firmer springs? I'm thinking about the "S" forks over the emulators. I wonder what the FXDX forks would be like on a Sporty? Are they longer and firmer sprung? Was thinking of using clip-ons above triple-t's.
Mark
Hi Mark
I didn't use the forks as delivered but experience tells me that most forks are set up for a theoretical 'average' rider,of probably about 160 pounds. I am about 230 in gear. In addition the new Sporty is about 50 lbs heavier than the old one. Because of this I believed the forks would almost have to be undersprung.
In most articles I've read about suspension I've become convinced that people generally think a harsh suspension is due to overly stiff springs but from what I understand of it the opposite is true, that a bump blows through the soft spring and doesn't allow the dampening to work correctly. I should say I don't claim much knowledge of suspension, this is just what I gather from people who should know.
Anyway, as a result I believe in buying springs matched to the weight of the rider and machine so I ordered a set of springs for them from Racetech, I believe it was just over $100. I also figured since I had the fork legs off the bike that this was a good time to get the whole thing done and done correctly, I really kind of hate doing things halfway.
I believe the end result is very good indeed and I think you would be amazed at the difference it makes in ride and handling. Truthfully I think the shocks were actually far worse than the forks so if I could only do one or the other I would start with the shocks, but presuming you've done that I would highly recommend you do the 1200S forks.
My only question if doing it over would be whether to use the 1200s fork or the FXDX fork. I looked at the parts catalogue on them both forks and it appears to me their are some internal parts that are different, probably the springs but possibly some of the internal valving. The question would be that since the FXDX fork is set up for a 670 pound bike and the 1200s fork was set up for a 525 pound bike (approx. of course), which would be the better fork for a bike like the '05 XL that is sort of in the middle? I don't really know the answer and I don't know if anyone does or could unless you set up and example of both and tested them side by side. All I can say for sure is that I am extremely pleased with the 1200S set up and believe it will serve you well.

marco883
10th February 2005, 07:09
originally posted by Joe S.
My only question if doing it over would be whether to use the 1200s fork or the FXDX fork. I looked at the parts catalogue on them both forks and it appears to me their are some internal parts that are different, probably the springs but possibly some of the internal valving. The question would be that since the FXDX fork is set up for a 670 pound bike and the 1200s fork was set up for a 525 pound bike (approx. of course), which would be the better fork for a bike like the '05 XL that is sort of in the middle? I don't really know the answer and I don't know if anyone does or could unless you set up and example of both and tested them side by side. All I can say for sure is that I am extremely pleased with the 1200S set up and believe it will serve you well.[/QUOTE]

Hi Joe,
Great insight, you and others have convinced me the cartidge forks are the way to go. Just outa curiosty do you have the HD part# for the FXDX forks? I'm sure overkill, been trying to lighten up my '02 883/1200 and weigh 160 geared up. The 1200S forks are the way to go, just want to research.
Thanks, Mark

Joe S.
10th February 2005, 16:19
HI
I'm sorry, i don't. I think those FXDX fork legs might still be in the normal HD parts catalog. Interestingly, when I was discussing this with the parts guys the FXDX legs were actually quoted to me as being a bit cheaper than the 1200S legs. I have no idea why, perhaps because it was around the tme of year when they typically do some price changing.
If you have a dealer nearby stop and ask the parts guys if you can see the parts books for the fxdx and 1200S and compare the exploded diagrams and parts numbers for the internal pieces of each fork. I can't recall what all was different but I am thinking it was primarily the springs and maybe some internal damping pieces. That would make sense given the weight difference between the two. I do believe the outer tubes and lower legs were the same part numbers.
It would be quite nice to find a way for these bikes to lose about 50 pounds. I think a fair amount could be lost relatively easily, if not cheaply, but I'm not sure about the availability of pieces. Light weight is usually not a priority with most HD owners.
I do know that Storz and Mert Lawill are both working on Street Trackers based on the rubber mount HDs and i would think that by definition there would have to be some weight loss involved there.
Just looking at the bike I am guessing you could knock off a fair amount of weight with lighter wheels, carbon fiber front and rear fender (might have to do some fancy engineering on the rear because of the seat mounting) and belt guard. Drill some lightening holes in the rear sprocket, bin the passenger pegs, on and on.
I think it would cost a bunch to do largely because of the lack of aftermarket along those lines. Its much easier with sportbikes because that tends to be the mindset of that crowd, still not especially cheap though.
BTW whereabouts in Washington is your town?

marco883
11th February 2005, 05:39
Hey Joe,
I'll check out the local HD parts guy for FXDX forks, I have 883/1200 P.M. Thanks for info, I did a post on Winter Projects in the Photo's section. Lousy pics, I'll re-do them later.

I'm going to chop some e-Bay front, rear fenders and tank. Thinking about rear sets and trimming timing & sprocket covers. At your suggestion I'll look into lightening rear pulley. I did add dual discs (more unsprung weight) but the braking improvement was worth it. Looking into lighter rims, not sure if staying with stock dia any suggestions? I've got a buddy thats real good with carbon- fiber (we're both in the boat busy) so my chopped tins may work as patterns?

Always open to suggestions, I'm always trying something new, wrenching and riding is GOOD THERAPY! I LOVE the SPORT in SPORTSTER! At our busy we have 3 Sporties (1 883-1200, 1 883R-1200, 1 1200S) and 1 E-Glide Police Spec, just added a 883 Fatster/Classic this week ( :p CHICK BIKE :p ). All this between 4 guys & 1 gal. Lots of parts!! We ride almost everyday to work.

Ballard aka "SNOOSE JUNCTION" is a Burb in NW Seattle. Lotsa Fishing/Marine history, YA SURE U BETCHA! (no I'm not Scandahoovian, my better half is)

http://xlforum.net/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=650&sort=1&size=medium&cat=500

BTW riding must be great in Northwest Oregon!!

Joe S.
11th February 2005, 06:47
Its a good looking bike Mark.
If you have someone that can work in CF thats a really cool thing. I've never seen much in CF for Harleys although I think it could look pretty darn cool if done right.
Another thought I had in terms of lightening the bike, might be a front sprocket cover in CF. It doesn't hold oil in or anything so I don't see any reason it couldn't be an alternate material. I guess in reality the stock piece, being alloy, isn't all that heavy and you could drill it or make some lightening cuts, might look kind of trick and save a few ounces.
I think like most motorcycles there is probably a fairly substantial amount of weight that can be knocked off pretty easily (not cheaply though), beyond that it starts being more work and money for smaller decreases in weight. I once corresponded with a fellow on our Ducati list who had done just about everything possible to a Duc 916, CF everything, titanium nuts and bolts anywhere, he was so fanatic he was down to grams, it just happened t be his obsession. Most of us will find the point of diminishing returns and stop there.
For me I wanted a Sportster that looks traditional so I'm not planning to molest it a whole bunch. I did the jetting, slip ons, and the suspension plus some cosmetic stuff but thats probably about the end of it for me, maybe cams if I get really obsessive. I'm not sure yet but I may have to do something about the tendency for the right peg to ground so easily in cornering, i'm hoping the suspension upgrades do the job, if not I'll be looking into modifying the stock pegs a bit. It appears to me they could be brought inboard at least an inch without too much difficulty. I'm thinking it may be necessary, the bike handles very well and I think when I go to stickier rubber as the stock stuff wears it may compound the problem.
NW Oregon does have some good riding, actually the whole state has a lot of good riding. If you ever find yourself coming down this way let me know and I can give you some tips on roads you might like to see. You are welcome to email me at joes4570@prodigy.net .

AZbiker
11th February 2005, 19:42
Mark,

Also, Airtech sells CF replicas of the ham can filter covers, IIRC.

marco883
12th February 2005, 23:48
Thanks for the replies,
I don't think I'll go nuts trying to save grams but maybe lighter wheels might seem to make the biggest change in handling after the front suspension upgrade. I think the CF would be just for fun. I really like the Storz Alloy Road Race tank but BIG $$$.

Am-hd
13th April 2006, 04:23
Just found these tread I am doing new springs from racetech and changing the valves in my 1200s front end. It handled pretty well before but i am sure it will handle even better, then i am going for ohlins rears. Can not wait to see the look on the japs when i go round the outside. Can do that now but a bit hard, hopeful this will help, then into the motor . Look out here i come better handling and more power.

Turbota
13th April 2006, 07:10
Am-hd ....... These are the Ohlins I am looking at:

http://x10.putfile.com/4/10201161442.jpg

Type: 36PL

36 mm monotube shock absorber with external reservoir
Adjustable length
Mechanical spring preload adjuster

P/N: HD141
Length: 13.2" - 13.6" adjustable
Stroke: 3.9"

P/N: HD142
Length: 14.2" - 14.6" adjustable
Stroke: 3.9"

$ 809 Retail
______________________________________

http://www.bikerparts2go.com/
$ 656 + shipping

http://www.hardracing.com/
$ 675 + shipping

http://www.hellrisercustoms.com/
$ 695 + shipping
______________________________________


Black & White: http://x11.putfile.com/4/9212591298.jpg

Lynk
13th April 2006, 07:29
Me likey, Turbota!

relayer4u
14th April 2006, 00:41
Am-hd ....... These are the Ohlins I am looking at:

Type: 36PL

36 mm monotube shock absorber with external reservoir
Adjustable length
Mechanical spring preload adjuster

P/N: HD141
Length: 13.2" - 13.6" adjustable
Stroke: 3.9"

P/N: HD142
Length: 14.2" - 14.6" adjustable
Stroke: 3.9"

$ 809 Retail
______________________________________

http://www.bikerparts2go.com/
$ 656 + shipping

http://www.hardracing.com/
$ 675 + shipping

http://www.hellrisercustoms.com/
$ 695 + shipping
______________________________________




Wallyscycleworld.com has them priced at $604.75.

Click the dot for the drag specialties catalog and enter the part number.

I would call them to order though, because they can be strange with backordered items.

Am-hd
14th April 2006, 01:21
yeah they are the ones wow you can get them cheap over there. They rae the bee knees I reckon. Thanks for the links and prices. man this is a good site

Am-hd
14th April 2006, 01:24
That price there makes it around $830 Aus when the supplier here was taking $1700 Aus. Man i am going to contact them , thanks again guys. Just can not wait to have it setup for my weight and size

BWP 5p
14th April 2006, 01:58
Hi Guys....I'm one of the Goofy types that likes a great handling FAST Sportie too:banana
I've done Works Performance Billet shocks and fork springs. I put in the S/E fork oil and that $hit is STIFF when it's cold:doh Almost feels like rigid forks:doh
The Works shocks are nice though. I recently added a Storz Steering damper to eliminate the freaking Speed Wobble. My next aquisition is going to be a set of Dunlop 501's. These stock tires really suck.:laugh My bike is right at 82 horsies. I had it to 135 mph today and it was still pulling:clap I actually tried to shift into 5th it was pulling so hard:doh
I know lagerdrinker just did the Gold Valve emulators and was pleased with them. So does the MoCo still have the "S" forks for sale, or do you have to find them at a dealer somewhere?

ncst8er
14th April 2006, 02:50
So far as I know HD still sells them, however I think they use a 3/4" axle while I believe the 05's use a 1" axle (I can't say I've verified that yet, but I would be in the same boat). Here is the info. I had on part nos.

left side is 45944-00, and the right side is 45943-00

Just be sure that you check on the axle size before ordering (of course you could change out the front wheel, etc. but that would start getting real expensive).

BWP 5p
14th April 2006, 03:09
Seems like we could change bearings....same OD with the smaller ID:)

relayer4u
14th April 2006, 04:04
So far as I know HD still sells them, however I think they use a 3/4" axle while I believe the 05's use a 1" axle (I can't say I've verified that yet, but I would be in the same boat). Here is the info. I had on part nos.

left side is 45944-00, and the right side is 45943-00

Just be sure that you check on the axle size before ordering (of course you could change out the front wheel, etc. but that would start getting real expensive).

They are a bolt on, no axle change required.

BWP 5p
14th April 2006, 04:17
What do these babys sell for at the local Stealer?

ncst8er
16th April 2006, 19:40
Thanks, I knew the rear axle size changed, wasn't sure about the front.

Regarding the price, Zanotti's lists the price as $257.76 each.

Am-hd
17th April 2006, 00:17
If you can get the "S" forks they are so cool. if you set springs for weight and change the valves I have been told they go around corners like on rails, will let you know after I have done mine. The ohlins shocks i am still tossing up between the 36pl or the 36plrc ( the ones with adjustable damping ) , will be talking to my guy end of this week about the rear shocks and handling for dallors.

lyonoso
17th April 2006, 23:44
i am also considering the 1200s forks, do these part numbers for these forks cover the full forks complete with all internals and would mean just a straight unbolt from the triple trees of my existing full forks for the 1200s etc.(05 1200c)

Am-hd
12th May 2006, 04:18
As I know they will just bolt on , as for what you get when you buy them you better check with the seller. But take my word once you have them and you change the spring etc , it will feel out of this world

Am-hd
2nd June 2006, 03:53
just got my bike back after doing racetech springs and values on the 1200s front end, MAN YEAH BABE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. Boy this is so good, had progessive spring in they do not even touch this setup. They are good springs but these are just so good, cornering , high speed. If you like to have a sporty that handles get 1200s forks with racetech springs and values. Doing rear end soon, I can not inmagine how much better that will be over the rough stuff. Well let you know.
One happy Jane here

BWP 5p
5th June 2006, 23:40
That's good news.......gonna do mine someday!

cjspitzer
13th October 2006, 14:43
I tried finding the 1200S forks on the H-D website. No go. Does anyone know a good source for those forks, or the equivalent?

They are a bolt on, no axle change required.

XLXR
16th October 2006, 02:44
Reread the thread, there are part numbers and sources mentioned. I don't know if the information is still good.

I weigh 230 lbs and learned real quick the stock suspension had to go. I went with Race Tech emulator kit and heavier springs. I added extra oil to stiffen up the last inch of travel. I added a fork brace and found that also helped a lot. Considering the money difference, I would say the forks are now good enough. My problem is not finding shocks to match the forks. Still working on that. 1200S forks are tempting.

AZbiker
22nd October 2006, 06:49
Reread the thread, there are part numbers and sources mentioned. I don't know if the information is still good.

I weigh 230 lbs and learned real quick the stock suspension had to go. I went with Race Tech emulator kit and heavier springs. I added extra oil to stiffen up the last inch of travel. I added a fork brace and found that also helped a lot. Considering the money difference, I would say the forks are now good enough. My problem is not finding shocks to match the forks. Still working on that. 1200S forks are tempting.

Sounds like a call to Works Performance is in order. :clap

The only thing you would gain at this point by switching to cartridge forks is ease of changing damping settings. Unless you're racing the thing, that's not going to be that important, IMHO.

XLXR
22nd October 2006, 09:07
Works is working on Pro Racer shocks for me. I am going to leave the forks alone until I get good shocks.

Any more opinions on how well Race Tech emulator kits work for you? I like having the ability to adjust them, but the only thing I have done is increase oil height.

Anyone with intermediate mechanical skills, service manual and patience should be able to install them. Be sure to debur the inside of the dampner rod after you drill out the holes. I used a Dremel tool. I would not recommend begining mechanics try it without getting help from someone who has done it before. After the first time, you'll be able to rebuild forks in an evening.