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barry1967
20th November 2004, 00:59
The red lines obviously.

http://www.johnsonenginetechnology.com/JETIMAGES/dynographs/whitford_cor.jpg

happyman
28th March 2005, 14:31
Hey just visiting this site don't even own a sporty but have had a couple years ago. the one your riding looks like a pretty quick ride. Ever dragrace it?? Will say that i have used J.E.T. on a couple of my bikes. one ws a 80" evo big twin and a 95" twin cam both were mild builds as i run a bagger but the heads do perform very well. almost makes me want to get ahold of a sporty and do one up but too dang old for the wheelie stuff. anyway enjoy the build looks fun

Happy

barry1967
29th March 2005, 00:49
Thanks. No drag race but he did an 80 inch motor for me that made 100/100 and it was fast as shit. Don't have this one back together yet but it should be pretty quick as well.


And of course, Welcome to the forum.

raysheen
29th March 2005, 00:53
Hey Barry! What setup is that dyno from??

barry1967
29th March 2005, 01:04
Hey Barry! What setup is that dyno from??


I may be slow but, which setup? the dyno or bike?

raysheen
29th March 2005, 01:31
the bike setup that was on that dyno run sorry :)

barry1967
29th March 2005, 01:45
It is a 84cu in bike with redshift 567s and 9.7ish compression I believe. It is a very nice all around screamer. I mean geez, 99HP at 6000 and 100ft lbs at 4000. Woo-Hoo

And that is with stock wheels, rods, lifters, 883 conversion heads, re-sleeved factory cylinders and wiseco pistons.

ted
29th March 2005, 02:23
:shhhh. but 84" should make a bit more power than that, :shhhh. Mine does.
Ted :smoke :tour :rolleyes: :clap

95xlcustom
29th March 2005, 02:24
very nice :smoke :smoke :smoke :smoke :smoke :smoke :smoke :smoke :smoke

ndmp40
29th March 2005, 02:25
Almost exactly the numbers I got from my 88 incher. Big diff is my SE 536 cams are a bit milder, but not much. Dyno's always differ, though.

ndmp40
29th March 2005, 02:29
:shhhh. but 84" should make a bit more power than that, :shhhh. Mine does.
Ted :smoke :tour :rolleyes: :clap

That is a meaningless statement. You can make more power with a 1200 if you wanted to :rolleyes: Its all about the combination.
A bigger set of cams and a point more compression would give you bigger numbers, of course. But perhaps the builder wanted a 9.5 to 1 engine and a set of street cams on the bike. Not every one builds their bike for max peak hp :D

barry1967
29th March 2005, 02:33
That is a meaningless statement. You can make more power with a 1200 if you wanted to :rolleyes: Its all about the combination.
A bigger set of cams and a point more compression would give you bigger numbers, of course. But perhaps the builder wanted a 9.5 to 1 engine and a set of street cams on the bike. Not every one builds their bike for max peak hp :D


Thank You. Not everyone gets that point :D

ted
29th March 2005, 02:42
Mine was built for streetability and I used the best parts I could to reach that end. I have much more compression, a bit over 11.5:1 I figure. And yes it is very streetable on high test pump gas. Comparing my build to Wiseco's R&D 84" build, that made 110tq/110hp, I'm guessing mine makes a few more of both. More compression and a much better bottom end and heads. A huge amount of thought was put into my engine build and it works nicely, thank you. I'm guessing it may even be a bit more fun than 101tq/99hp. Ya think so too?? :bump :smoke :tour :clap
Ted

barry1967
29th March 2005, 02:46
Mine was built for streetability , a bit over 11.5:1 I figure. And yes it is very streetable on high test pump gas.
Ted


11.5 to 1 streetable? On an air cooled street engine :frownthre Where do you get your racing gas?

ted
29th March 2005, 03:10
Read the whole post Barry old man. :clap I said "high test pump gas". And good golly man, dont take my comments so dam personal. :rolleyes: I just said 84" should make a bit more power. I ain't knocking anyone's build, just slipping my opinion in the mix. And, really, my bike ain't built for max power like someone else mentioned. It is just a well thought out 84" build that does exactly what it was supposed to. :clap :tour Just barely rolling in first and twitching the throttle open for a little blip raises the front end. Thats low end torque that comes on very early just like that Jet dyno run. It is a very fun street bike, very nicely mannered, and it does not need race gas because I just might know a thing or two about working with compression.
Ted :smoke :tour

barry1967
29th March 2005, 03:17
I wasn't banging you. The redshift 567s have a duration of 253. The 536s are 256/266. That is getting into the extreme range of streetability in my opinion and with 11.5 to 1 you are barely meeting streetablilty to me. To me it just seems a bit extreme. Our views are just a bit different. No hard feelings though. Everyone is entitled to thier opinion. :)

ted
29th March 2005, 03:22
Barry, I see you are from Warwick. You ever run into a short fat 57 or so yr old guy with 3 chins named Bob that shoots some mean pool? :smoke Probly shoots with a stinky cigar in his chops. Thats my older brother.
Ted :clap

ted
29th March 2005, 03:29
I run Andrews V-8 cams in mine. They are pretty mild actually. They just bleed off enough compression down low in the revs to let it crank easier. High compression is made managable with tiny egg shaped chambers and a very large squish band. It is really quite simple to run high compression numbers on the street.
Ted :smoke

happyman
29th March 2005, 04:16
so this was a 1200 i take it, but are using 883 heads??

happyman
29th March 2005, 04:20
how well does the frame handle the hp and tq?? suppose its a challange to keep the front end on the ground too. just curious

ted
29th March 2005, 11:34
Was a 883, 87 model year. Then 1200, then I built the present engine starting with brand new cases. 1380 now. The 883 heads are from a 86. I had big twin valves put in and some port work by Tilley H D in North Carolina. For a good look at 86-883 heads go to e-bay, there is a set there somewhere. http://tinyurl.com/3sdud There they are. Look at the tiny chambers and imagine the squish band with 3 3/4" bore.
Ted :tour

stevo
29th March 2005, 12:17
I was runnin 11.25:1 on PUMP fuel (premium unleaded and it will run on normal unleaded, just gotta take a bit of timing out) with mine at 1200...using SE 0.536 cams....and careful attention to combustion chamber shape and quench height...
I expect to be in the 11-11.5 :1 with the 88" build...by paying the same careful attention to all the little things that make a motor work sweet.

By runnin..I mean FULLY streetable.. it was my only transport...commuting, shopping, touring, drag racing,etc etc etc


The problem with compareing apples to oranges and even oranges to madarines....
There is far too many variables in an engine build to go into here...
each builder has his own particular ways and tricks....
It is very difficult to use different builders techniques in the same engine as somethings just don't work together well.
Most builds that get discussed here are bread and butter re-builds NOT performance engine DESIGN and contruction...
It is not difficult to push the boundaries past where your average guy can when you've been doing it for years.......

Ted knows how to design and put an engine together properly....that's why he can run those compressions...

barry1967
30th March 2005, 00:02
Ok I concede.
I was just stating that 100/100 in a MILD street 84cu in motor was nice. 10 to 1, mid size cams and a peak power output at about 6000 would be a fun ride and last a long time. I am thinking this is the way I will go next winter with my bike. The heads are done. All I would need is the cyls re-lined and the cases bored,and a set of redshifts. Not being a pro builder, I thought 11.5 to 1 was a bit harsh for the street.

900 to have my cyls re-sleeved including pistons, 275 to bore cases, or less if I split em, and 435 for cams. Presto 100/100. Life is sweet

ted
30th March 2005, 01:09
Hay Barry, I agree, that jet 100/100 setup has to be lotsa fun. Topping out at 6000 will definately add to its lifespan. Mine rarely sees 6000 but it makes power up to 7000 though. It's the 100 plus torque that is interesting. :D Especially when it comes on very early. Can we say no clutch roll on wheelies?? :clap Lotsa fun indeed. :wonderlan :tour :yikes
Ted

stevo
30th March 2005, 01:21
yeah Bazza..

I could have got more HP out of my 1200 ... BUT it would have made it unpleasant as a daily rider..

and YES ... over 10 is harsh for the street and it costs you bottom ends because it puts a lOT more load on 'em ...ask Crim...he's gone thru a few

So, for the same reasons you've stated, I'm lookin at a bigger cube motor....it will allow me to get the HP I want for down the strip but will have a FAT bottom end so I can have FUN!!!!!!!!!!!

It's called havin your cake and eating it too :D:D

Unfortunately I'm not gonna be able to help myself and will push the VE point further up the rev range than I need for the street just to get that magic 10 in street trim...

10's with no trainer wheels Ted ;) :D:D:D:D and able to do a 5000klm ride with racing in the middle...NOW THAT'S STREET..

barry1967
30th March 2005, 01:28
That's what I am looking for though. 100ft lbs and 100 or so HP in a daily driver that will run smoothly down the highway or scare the average rider if need be :D

I think we all want kinda the same thing but we're just going about in different ways...............SPEED

stevo
30th March 2005, 01:31
That's why I've also got a 150+ HP /440 lb GSXR :D:D:D:D:D:D

barry1967
30th March 2005, 01:33
That's why I've also got a 150+ HP /440 lb GSXR :D:D:D:D:D:D


Oh boy Oh boy zoooooooooooom

ndmp40
30th March 2005, 13:38
You dont need to run over 10 to 1 to make 100/100 :smoker .
My 88 make peak hp at 5900, so you dont need to twist it high either! :smoke

happyman
30th March 2005, 16:15
checked it out and those are small chambers!! i can't imagine that setup you have running right on 91 octane gas and ttha is the best we can do here just one thing not to be nosey but can you give an approxament cost of that motr?? just curious is all can youdo the old 883 bikes like say 1989 and up or is there too much not rigth about them??

happyman
30th March 2005, 16:18
Oh boy Oh boy zoooooooooooom
i kinda like the fact that you don't have to spool the motor real hard to make hp and tq also but i guess its what ever aperson wants and we can build to get reliability but could you give an estimate of what you have to spend to have a motor like what your running just curious

happyman
30th March 2005, 16:40
Was a 883, 87 model year. Then 1200, then I built the present engine starting with brand new cases. 1380 now. The 883 heads are from a 86. I had big twin valves put in and some port work by Tilley H D in North Carolina. For a good look at 86-883 heads go to e-bay, there is a set there somewhere. http://tinyurl.com/3sdud There they are. Look at the tiny chambers and imagine the squish band with 3 3/4" bore.
Ted :tour
TED are you also a builder in a shop?? just curious

happyman
30th March 2005, 16:53
Was a 883, 87 model year. Then 1200, then I built the present engine starting with brand new cases. 1380 now. The 883 heads are from a 86. I had big twin valves put in and some port work by Tilley H D in North Carolina. For a good look at 86-883 heads go to e-bay, there is a set there somewhere. http://tinyurl.com/3sdud There they are. Look at the tiny chambers and imagine the squish band with 3 3/4" bore.
Ted :tour
TED what year sporties will they fit. Thanks

happyman
31st March 2005, 19:07
The red lines obviously.

http://www.johnsonenginetechnology.com/JETIMAGES/dynographs/whitford_cor.jpg
Barry,
Can you really claim that is your dyno run for that motor?? Just real curious is all

barry1967
31st March 2005, 22:50
Barry,
Can you really claim that is your dyno run for that motor?? Just real curious is all

If you read the title or all the posts you would see that I did not claim this to be my motor. It says I WANT this motor.

Thanks for the trust in your question though.

ted
1st April 2005, 00:23
Hay Happy, Those 86-883 heads will work with all years from 86-03. A little extra work needs to be done to convert them to head breathers. Just drill and tap stuff, not really complicated.
The small chambers are what makes my 11.5:1 compression work with pump gas without pinging. That and a couple other things. One being the Mikuni carb atomizes the fuel very well, especially at small throttle openings. Not much liquid gas left in the mixture by the time it gets lit. That promotes a fast burn, economy too. I get about 65 mpg when I cruise with my wife. 3 3/4" flat pistons coming up to about .030" from the heads around those small chambers creates a lot of turbulance which also promotes a fast burn. You hear about needing to retard timing on most conversions? I had to go the other way.
Nope, I aint a pro wrench. Just a guy that did some drag racing and wanted to win in a heads up class. I did all my own wrenching and picked some of the best brains I could find. Started going to harley drags in 94 and had the SS/XL class record in 96, running 10.81 @ 120. The 10.81 was the record et, needed 121 for the mpg record. ET rules though, and I was more than happy with that. Now, understand the race engine was a 1200, stock bore and stroke, with stock, unported heads. Rules dictated that, and yes It was tore down to prove it was legal.
But back to the 84" motor. I started with new cases, S&S lightweight race bottom end with supreme rods, Wiseco 3 3/4" bore pistons and S&S 3 5/8" cylinders bored to fit 3 3/4". If I was building now I would use the nikasil <sp?> plated Milinium cylinders or something like that. I'm thinking about $4,000 or so could get it done if I did all the assembly work, probably a bit over $4,000.
Ted :smoke :tour :wonderlan :clap

happyman
1st April 2005, 03:01
Hay Happy, Those 86-883 heads will work with all years from 86-03. A little extra work needs to be done to convert them to head breathers. Just drill and tap stuff, not really complicated.
The small chambers are what makes my 11.5:1 compression work with pump gas without pinging. That and a couple other things. One being the Mikuni carb atomizes the fuel very well, especially at small throttle openings. Not much liquid gas left in the mixture by the time it gets lit. That promotes a fast burn, economy too. I get about 65 mpg when I cruise with my wife. 3 3/4" flat pistons coming up to about .030" from the heads around those small chambers creates a lot of turbulance which also promotes a fast burn. You hear about needing to retard timing on most conversions? I had to go the other way.
Nope, I aint a pro wrench. Just a guy that did some drag racing and wanted to win in a heads up class. I did all my own wrenching and picked some of the best brains I could find. Started going to harley drags in 94 and had the SS/XL class record in 96, running 10.81 @ 120. The 10.81 was the record et, needed 121 for the mpg record. ET rules though, and I was more than happy with that. Now, understand the race engine was a 1200, stock bore and stroke, with stock, unported heads. Rules dictated that, and yes It was tore down to prove it was legal.
But back to the 84" motor. I started with new cases, S&S lightweight race bottom end with supreme rods, Wiseco 3 3/4" bore pistons and S&S 3 5/8" cylinders bored to fit 3 3/4". If I was building now I would use the nikasil <sp?> plated Milinium cylinders or something like that. I'm thinking about $4,000 or so could get it done if I did all the assembly work, probably a bit over $4,000.
Ted :smoke :tour :wonderlan :clap
thanks ted! was going to bid on the heads as no one bid on them and thought i was regisered and i think i was but not familar with e-bay at all so i bid then i see the deal says time expired and no bids. thought what the heck so got to lookin and didn''t do a confirm. i guess i will have to pay attention had i been about 10 seconds sooner i would have had them. oh well i think the 883 theads can be made to do the same maybe. kinda tossing around a sporty here for a hot rod as i have a roadglide now but have always enjoyed the fast machines need to get a sporty again but i need to do a lot of asking questions too and not too sure what bike to get yet or what year for that matter. is it necessary to have new cases? anyway i appreciate the information . still wished i would have landed the heads will pay closer attention nest time i see something i want. i learned something. thanks

happy

happyman
1st April 2005, 03:05
If you read the title or all the posts you would see that I did not claim this to be my motor. It says I WANT this motor.

Thanks for the trust in your question though.
was just curious barry just didn't seen that what you have for a motor there was going to make those numbers. i just didn't catch what ya said is all so it is cool bet you can get there if ya just spend more money !! unfortunately thats the way things go Happy

barry1967
1st April 2005, 03:15
was just curious barry just didn't seen that what you have for a motor there was going to make those numbers. i just didn't catch what ya said is all so it is cool bet you can get there if ya just spend more money !! unfortunately thats the way things go Happy


No problem. Most of us don't question each other in that tone

Can you really claim that is your dyno run for that motor?

and if we do, usually we know they are messing with us. Being that your new it was taken in the wrong context.

Yeah more money will do it but the wife is another story. :D

happyman
1st April 2005, 03:29
No problem. Most of us don't question each other in that tone



and if we do, usually we know they are messing with us. Being that your new it was taken in the wrong context.

Yeah more money will do it but the wife is another story. :D
ya i figured i may have got your goat a bit.so just what does that motor do? well take the wife out for a meal and movie and ya just may have a prayer to do more to the motor. I did talk to Bob this mornig and he says he can build a real good performer out of a 84" i know nothing of these motors now days for sporties. did the one in 89 that in its day was a heck of a motor but by todays standards i am sure it was a dog Happy

barry1967
1st April 2005, 03:40
ya i figured i may have got your goat a bit.so just what does that motor do?

Don't know yet. I haven't gotten it together yet. With the 1200 heads done by Bob and n3s it made 83HP and 81ft lbs. I'm hoping to just get some more torque out of it. With the 883 heads I don't expect to gain any HP. We'll see soon though :D