Dear Harley,

With the average age of the first time H.D. buyer getting older and older, for the future survival of the company please go back to your roots and appeal to the youth.

The youth is what made Harley what it is today. Many of my peers think of Harley's as "old man bikes". Granted we don't make as much money as more established demographs, but we are out there spending money on sport bikes, making that a multi-billion dollar industry.

When the baby boomer generation fades out and my generation starts spending money on toys, we will think of motorcycles, but motorcycles in my generations mind means Honda's, Kawasaki's, Suzuki's, etc.

Start making more ads aimed at the youth, make riding a Harley cool again if you are under 35, make another line aimed at the youth besides Buells and Sportsters.

For the survival of the company we got to start looking ahead to the future by looking at our past!

Thanks

~Isaac

Good points.

But I think the Buell line-up is what HD feel they have to offer the youngsters.

I'm not a big fan of the Revolution engine, but it is a platform with promise and H.D. is going to use that to its advantage.

As for appealing to the youth, I know what you mean when you say all people think about nowadays are the crotch rockets. Let me tell you, I'm one of the only 18 year olds I know that has a Harley or even wants a Harley. Its pretty sad because I get sh!t all the time from people that just love sport bikes, and all I have to say is, "It's a Harley." They say its slow, but you know what....I'm riding an American legend, they're riding a japanese pile of pot metal and plastic! Japanese bikes are purely for speed and performance, and they have no real style or individuality. All those japanese bikes are the same, and I dont understand why everyone wants them.

I call for the same thing as Isaac. Harley needs to try to appeal to younger people, both male and female. The Buell line-up is also very promising, but they have to work on making it more popular and visible. They need to make the word "Buell" pop into peoples heads when they think sport bike. Buell has what it takes to beat the japanese, and if the motor company puts themselves in the right position at the right time they are going to make some major money, but I guess we'll leave that up to the engineers!

The problem is the price of these machines. Compared to Japs they are really expensive. If I look around at my friends and they can buy a Honda whatever 600 cc's bike for lets say 5000, or a Buell of the same age and mileage for around 7500...

Young people just don't have the money to buy them. Especially here in Europe, HD is so expensive and the governments tax the living daylights out of you.

Plus next year is the last year the Sportster is going to be produced...Don't know what they will put in place though.

Plus next year is the last year the Sportster is going to be produced...Don't know what they will put in place though.

I heard that too!!

Plus next year is the last year the Sportster is going to be produced...Don't know what they will put in place though.

That was an April Foold joke - the Sportster will not get killed off yet.

As for the youth market, I feel your pain. I know there are a few of us on here, but I'm the only person I know of personally that bought a brand new harley-davidson as thier first street bike at 21 years old. They need to do something. The other young rider I remember on here, Rideout KC, had a 1200R and sold it to buy a crotch rocket. Nothing against him, but he displays what people my age a looking for. What sucks is that Buell has it - awsome performance, especially in handling (I have yet to ride a better handling bike than an XB), but god - a 1200 runs $10,500! Not sure of the 9's, but I don't think they're much less - maybe $9,500. Too much. I wanted one of those in the worst way, but I couldn't afford it, so I went with the sportster (luckily for me, I have NO regrets).

I think part of the problem is what's being shown. When kids (for the sake of arguement, anyone under 30 - yes, I'm in this group, too) think of Harleys, it's either $100,000 customs from WCC or Electra-Glides that completely encase you in fairings, neither of which kids want. Kids watch the Discovery Channel shows and see the builders putting springers on their "old school" bikes and they think "wow, cool", but they're completely oblivious to the fact that HD sells a springer right off the showroom floor.

All of the HD marketing lately has been for the new VRod; I think it's time they remind the world that they have other bikes: cruisers, racers, and yes, even a girl's bike (...the Dyna. What'd you think I meant?)

OMG was that a 1st of April Joke??? I bought that big time. Feeling really dumb now... I have the original posting at home, will post it here for all to laugh at me then.

Well, me not so young anymore, 31 this year, but still had the same issue. Rode Japs for years, and kept dreaming. Now after so many years, and selling my old XLCH and my Jap AND convincing my better half (for the last three years) to buy a new HD.

But dreaming is very nice also I think, and I love it more and more (the bike, not the dream)

Now cmon. I love my sportster, but listen to what your saying.
"but you know what....I'm riding an American legend, they're riding a japanese pile of pot metal and plastic! Japanese bikes are purely for speed and performance, and they have no real style or individuality. All those japanese bikes are the same, and I dont understand why everyone wants them."
You know the sportster was aimed at speed and performance when it was originally brought out and then fell into the "American Legend" category when it could no longer keep up with the competition. The jap bikes your putting down ARE evolution man. Those things change every year in the sake of better performance. Their perfectly balanced and engineered for racing. Their incredible bikes for their intended purpose.

OMG was that a 1st of April Joke??? I bought that big time. Feeling really dumb now... I have the original posting at home, will post it here for all to laugh at me then.

No need to since I wrote it and it was posted first on The XL Forum!

:danceman

No need to since I wrote it and it was posted first on The XL Forum!

:danceman
Bert, you know you are a little s:censort disturber with your (now infamous) "Last Year of the Sporty" article. People are gonna be quoting your article like it was an authentic HD press release for months to come! You must be so proud! :laugh

I am VERY proud but it just make next years joke harder. PRobably have to skip next year cause everyone will be on to me....cept the newbies!!

LOL good one. Hence it might be that I received it via the forum and just did not catch on at all.

Anyway have been working on my CCNA certification lately and am too tired to read most of the things...

I remember when I first started riding. It was on in the dirt to begin with and then when I finally got my license I brought a Honda 350four, man I loved that bike. For all those years of riding a jap bike I hated a Harley. The only reason I hated a Harley was because of a friends dad always having to work on his. While my friends and I were out riding, he would be in the garage wrenching. I always said I'd never have a Harley. That was the youth talking. Over time my perspective changed and now that I have one I'm kicking myself for not getting one a long time ago, with age comes wisdom.

I think, IMO, that as younger riders get older their wants will change too. Maybe if HD would market to the younger sportbike rider price might not be quite the issue. Marketing can be a powerful thing.

No need to since I wrote it and it was posted first on The XL Forum!

:danceman

Bert, you are an evil genius. That post has no doubt circled the globe and caused who knows how much panic.;)

here in trend setter so cal owning a HD is super cool with all ages. when i owned metrics in the past people would say hay you have a motorcycle. now its you have a HD. my 30ish bike friends think HD is real cool. i ask them how come the young guys dont ride customs and HD and he saye cuzz they can only afford a jap bike.
crotch rockets will always apeal to the young guys .thay still have a need for speed. later on thay ether go to HD or get out of the sport.
just what i see going on.i might be wrong, i might be crazy. but maybe it is a lunitic you are looking for

ps... What can you possibly benefit from refusing to work on bikes older than 10 yrs old. Suppose I find a great deal on a gently used 8 yr old bike. Do you honestly think that I will sell it in 2 yrs and buy another one?

Plus next year is the last year the Sportster is going to be produced...Don't know what they will put in place though.

yep, and around the same time you'll reach the end of the internet! :eek:

where in the world do people buy there motorcycles ? I thought this would be the last place on earth I would hear the harley cost more than honda crap . I just went and looked a new kawasaki z1000 cost 8499 . and sills h-d in paducah has a brand new 2006 1200r for 8815 dollars . that is a difference of 366 dollars . I also checked a honda 1300vtx at abernathys 8094 dollars . and if you want to get into the smaller cc bikes a new buel blast at abernathys 3,899 and from the same store a new honda 600vlx is 4894. and a cbr 600rr is 7694. . last weekend while at sills h-d I noticed two 883r,s one black one orange for 7200 bucks and several xl883 for 6500. so the old h-d cost more dog just wont hunt. sorry for the rant but I am so sick of hearing how people could buy two hondas for what I payed for my bike I could puke. if you want to compare apples to oranges I could buy 5 buell blast for what a gold wing cost.

where in the world do people buy there motorcycles ? I thought this would be the last place on earth I would hear the harley cost more than honda crap . I just went and looked a new kawasaki z1000 cost 8499 . and sills h-d in paducah has a brand new 2006 1200r for 8815 dollars . that is a difference of 366 dollars . I also checked a honda 1300vtx at abernathys 8094 dollars . and if you want to get into the smaller cc bikes a new buel blast at abernathys 3,899 and from the same store a new honda 600vlx is 4894. and a cbr 600rr is 7694. . last weekend while at sills h-d I noticed two 883r,s one black one orange for 7200 bucks and several xl883 for 6500. so the old h-d cost more dog just wont hunt. sorry for the rant but I am so sick of hearing how people could buy two hondas for what I payed for my bike I could puke. if you want to compare apples to oranges I could buy 5 buell blast for what a gold wing cost.


i can buy one of the fastest motorcycles in the world from japan with titanium everything for the price of my 1200c sporty.
a road king with the usual chrome and modest up grades are over 20,000.
the loaded yamaha is about 17,000.

Like it or not, price does factor into the purchasing decision. A long time buddy of mine bought a Honda Ace a couple years ago simply because it was cheaper than a Dyna or SofTail. He wasn't interested in a Sportster. Why? I don't know. I think part of it was the "girls bike" garbage, other part was "it's a dirt bike" or whatever. Anyway, he went with the Ace which he quickly fell in love with. A year later, he traded it in on a VTX1800 and has since tricked it out with so much chrome that it's damn near a road hazard. My point is, his initial turn-off was the $$$ of an American legend vs the low cost of a Japanese ride. This guy is as patriotic as anyone else I know, SFC in the US Army, Gulf war I and II vet, the whole deal. But he says it's his way of telling HD that they need to provide more for the $$$.

To a point, I can agree if you are shopping for a bike based on performance. Stock Japanese cruisers always beat stock HD when compare CC to CC and $$ to $$. Most folks don't realize that you can't go 150mph all the time, or ever for that matter, but they sitll shop with visions of high HP and high speeds dancing in their heads:banana

I think the Revolution engine is a giant step in the right direction. Maybe too big a step. It's so drastically different that the old heads mostly don't like it. New riders are falling in love with cheaper metric bikes and the big $14k price tag on a V-Rod is just too much when you compare similar HP and speeds.

My point is, at some point HD is going to have to be proactive about pricing. How can you argue with their current pricing model when they're still selling very well? You can't! But the new, young buyer will eventually tell HD that they're too expensive by simply not buying them. Hopefully, HD will see that and plan for the future by attracting the young buyers now.

I love my 93. But the reason I bought a 93 was that I couldn't afford an 06. I'll eventually buy a new HD. I have my eye on that NightRod, or maybe the 1200R, or maybe a NightTrain, or maybe that Street Bob...... Sure wish I could buy them all.

lmao I go and post the figures and what do I hear well a road king loaded is 20,000 , well guess what a honda goldwing loaded is 21,000 and my point exactly was a sporty or a dyna cost no more than a crotch rocket of similar displacement and somebody pipes up well I can buy a jap bike with titanium wheels for what my sporty cost . your exactly right and my point is it is a matter of what you want to ride . if you dont want to ride a harley fine ride a friggin rikshaw for all I care just dont do the it cost to much money whine because it dont. and if I got beat by a 1100 shadow or a 1300vtx I would sell my bike . I have run both and it wasnt even a race . and when I state the word you I am not implying any one in particular I am meaning joe blow public.

JWB does have a valid point about the price of metric bikes vs. Harleys. But it's all about perception. Harley's are perceived to be very expensive bikes, therefore potential new buyers of motorcycles look elsewhere before purchasing. They may WANT a Harley, but they don't think they can afford it.

@JWB47...

Indeed compare the prices...not only in the States. Lots of Europeans would like to by HD, but because of import taxes and VAT crap they are expensive here. Weird enough, the Jap bikes are cheaper. So what happens...

If I would be able to buy a HD in the States without having to go through all this crap of getting it imported, taxed and all the US specs replaced with European specs I would do it right away.

Hell an aftermarket buddy-seat from CC here cost ya 275 euro's. ($332.997) And that is aftermarket. Now I was able to order a US aftermarket part and guess what...157 euro's. And that's about $190. This does not go via customs, or import tax. So if you don't have a lot of money most people go for Jap-bikes, they are cheaper, simple as that.

Well guys here in Canada the prices have come down on Harleys by about $5000 due to the exchange and price drop. One of my bosses at work just bought a 750 Honda for $8100 out the door he did not even realize he could have gotten a 883 Sporty for $7995. He has the foolish impression that his new Honda will leave my Sporty by the wayside and as soon as he has enough miles on it I will prove him wrong.:banana
Bob

My nephew was in the market for a bike. A friend of his was willing to sell him his rice rocket at a very attractive price. I told him to check on the total cost of ownership, i.e. insurance! Well, after checking it out he went out and found an '83 Low Rider for only a few dollars more and saved huge on the insurance. I think that the young riders are paying as much or even more to ride the crotch rockets annually and eventually they come to their senses and buy the Harley they always wanted.

All I'm gonna say is that I am going to continue to support the country that has been so good to me. I won't stop buying American until I have to, and if supporting my country means spending a little more money than so be it, but at least I'm not contributing to the weakening of the American manufacturing industry. It is sad how many products are being outsourced every day, and it is also sad how many people go to Wal-mart on a regular basis, but thats a hole other problem that we don't want to talk about...

Buy American....

also harley should look at it like this..drop the price some and save young lives..i would say about 80% of the fatalities on motorcycles invovles a crotch rocket(atleast in my area) it is so bad around here its not even riding season yet and we have had 3 accidents so far that were in the newspaper..2 of them were crotch rockets both fatalities 1 was a harley rider and passenger dumped the bike on a road that is under construction(they werent from this area and they were an older couple in there 50s but they were treated and released from the hospital the same day) the poor kids on the crotch rockets were young one was 27 and the other was 22 both dead on the scene..so i think they should drop the price enough for the younger guys to own a harley also...i just bought my first harley and im 35 years old(i never wanted a crotch rocket anyway)..

also harley should look at it like this..drop the price some and save young lives..i would say about 80% of the fatalities on motorcycles invovles a crotch rocket(atleast in my area) it is so bad around here its not even riding season yet and we have had 3 accidents so far that were in the newspaper..2 of them were crotch rockets both fatalities 1 was a harley rider and passenger dumped the bike on a road that is under construction(they werent from this area and they were an older couple in there 50s but they were treated and released from the hospital the same day) the poor kids on the crotch rockets were young one was 27 and the other was 22 both dead on the scene..so i think they should drop the price enough for the younger guys to own a harley also...i just bought my first harley and im 35 years old(i never wanted a crotch rocket anyway)..

I agree hugely with dropping the price a bit, but I don't know if that's going to attract the crotch rocket buyer. They can already buy a 500cc metric cruiser in the $4k~5k range. I'm not sure they want a cruiser. They want a go like hell bike and they want to go like hell all the time. That CBR600RR is just the thing at a less than XL1200R price and is lighter, quicker, and probably looks cooler in the eyes of the focus group we're talking about. Maybe if Buell made a v-twin 600CC racer instead of the Blast and got it in at around $5000 they might attract some of the crotch rocket buyers. Maybe name it the Bullet or something like that. Give some ridiculous paint schemes and a full fairing. Watch the squids come in like sheep with credit cards in hand. Wishful thinking I guess.

also harley should look at it like this..drop the price some and save young lives..

H-D won't drop the prices a bit so long as the bikes continue to fly out the door. In fact, I think part of the "desire" to have a Harley is that it's so "out-of-reach" to most people. Of course, as has been pointed out here, they are not out-of-reach, but I believe Harley actually likes (and promotes) that image. Now I don't have anything against foreign bikes, but ain't none of them Harleys, and that there is what makes the Harley special (kinda like the whole “Jeep” thing). Maybe if things get bad again, they’ll change (they’ve done it in the past) but I think at least in the near term that they’ll remain what they are.

As far as marketing to the younger crowd...with age comes wisdom, so I think they'll come around eventually.

Keep the shiny side up,

-Sting

Would the Motor Co. please make a 100h.p. 300+lb. XR! I think everyone would want one.

I agree with 4banger. I'd like a street legal XR too!!

I was wondering why an orange, Buell-based XR-1200 hasn't hit the pages yet...don't want new bike, but would have to be talked out of that one.

H-D won't drop the prices a bit so long as the bikes continue to fly out the door. In fact, I think part of the "desire" to have a Harley is that it's so "out-of-reach" to most people. Of course, as has been pointed out here, they are not out-of-reach, but I believe Harley actually likes (and promotes) that image. Now I don't have anything against foreign bikes, but ain't none of them Harleys, and that there is what makes the Harley special (kinda like the whole “Jeep” thing). Maybe if things get bad again, they’ll change (they’ve done it in the past) but I think at least in the near term that they’ll remain what they are.

As far as marketing to the younger crowd...with age comes wisdom, so I think they'll come around eventually.

Keep the shiny side up,

-Sting

See, I disagree Sting, with age does come wisdom, but that doesn't mean they will buy harley's when they get older. See, when someone middle ages buys a bike, they think of when they were younger what they rode or what they wanted to ride. Kids nowadays when they become middle aged they will gavitate towards what they are familiar with.

There are MANY middle-aged and older men and women riding sportbikes over here in Europe. It is funny when you are stopped a biker hangout on the weekend and you see all these sportbike riders pull into the parking lot and whne they take off their helmut you see the guy or girl is aged 40+.

Oh Bert.... So YOU think 40+ is MIDDLE age????????????????????????? Whadaya call 50+... freaking Senior Citizens!?!?!?!?!
:boxing :boxing :boxing :censor :gun :gun :censor :gun :censor :p

Bikes are flying out the door because the baby boomers who fueled the motorcycle golden age in the 60's are getting riding back in their blood now that their kids are gone and have the money to pay a premium to buy H-D. So sure, times are good now, but it won't last forever and H-D has to think long term unless they want to relive the 70's when they almost went under.

H-D doesn't compete directly with the Jap crotch rockets, but Buell does. The Blast is strictly a beginner bike with no racing pretensions. Buell should build a moderately priced 600cc sport bike to go head to head with the rice rockets. But I tend to think that H-D/Buell would have to develop a new engine to pull that off because nothing in the H-D parts bin that I know of fits that bill. Probably the R&D costs are holding them back. But I think it would be worth the investment to bring the crotch rocket guys into the H-D fold so that when they're ready to "go faster" they buy a Firebolt, not a R1 and when they're ready to "slow down", they buy V-rod and not a Road Star Warrior.

In the cruiser segment, the Sportster is positioned against the Jap middlewieght cruisers, but the Sportster is really more of a retro sport bike or standard than a cruiser. I think H-D would do well to put out a moderately priced, mid-size model with classic "big" styling to compete directly with the C50s, Vulcan 900s, and Shadows. Bring in the younger cruiser riders who can't afford a big twin now, but would trade up for one later. It should be something on the order of a Softtail chassis with a Sportster engine sold in the $9-12K range - between the Sportster and the Dyna. It could be a sort resurrection of the old WL "45" models from the 40's, which were sold precisely to suck in the guys who lusted after a big-twin, but couldn't afford one.

In the cruiser segment, the Sportster is positioned against the Jap middlewieght cruisers, but the Sportster is really more of a retro sport bike or standard than a cruiser. I think H-D would do well to put out a moderately priced, mid-size model with classic "big" styling to compete directly with the C50s, Vulcan 900s, and Shadows. Bring in the younger cruiser riders who can't afford a big twin now, but would trade up for one later. It should be something on the order of a Softtail chassis with a Sportster engine sold in the $9-12K range - between the Sportster and the Dyna. It could be a sort resurrection of the old WL "45" models from the 40's, which were sold precisely to suck in the guys who lusted after a big-twin, but couldn't afford one.


This is what I'm talking about!!! A bike like that would sell like hot cakes!

.... I dont feel Harley needs to *compete* against anyone... nor should they. I hate this *Keep up with the Jones* mentality. People that buy Harley's, buy cuz they want them.. period.

I'm 16, been riding since about a month after my 16th birthday, but ive been around Harleys most of my life. While most people my age think my bike is cool, Japanese garbage is cool these days, 4 cylinder everything (bikes, cars, they dont care, shove 4 cylinders in it) Even among people my own age i have had a few comments about my sporty being a girls bike, from people who have never ridden a motorcycle in their lives. Truthfully without more speed i dont believe it's possible for HD to reclaim the youth market, their fastest bike(not counting buell) is ridiculed as a girl's bike(the guys who did say that dont know how true it is, the girls love it, i'm a sophmore and i've had senior chicks come and start talkin to me about my bike). I dont believe there is anything they can do to claim people ages 16-18, no motorcycle company can due to the fact that the majority of parents do not want their teenagers on motorcycles. Oh, but if there is a way to get the youth market, its to hire the people who sell that stinky-ass axe crap, people spray gallons of that on themselves and everyone else.

All of the HD marketing lately has been for the new VRod; I think it's time they remind the world that they have other bikes: cruisers, racers, and yes, even a girl's bike (...the Dyna. What'd you think I meant?)


The V-Rod is the future of H-D. I believe the days of the radial, dry sump carburated V-twins are numbered. What with ever more stringent pollution and noise regs and mileage requirements. Harley is putting all their R and D work and racing advances into V-rod technology. And that is not necessarily a bad thing. I mean Harley doesn't make flatheads or or knuckleheads any more and they have managed to survive for 100 years. I think they will be around for another 100. Personally, I'd like to see an XR 750 cafe racer street legal. As far a Buells go? I'm thinking of a Ulyses maybe later this year :).

I heard that too!!

I can't imagine why they would quit making the Sporty. It is the biggest seller the MoCo makes.

.... I dont feel Harley needs to *compete* against anyone... nor should they. I hate this *Keep up with the Jones* mentality. People that buy Harley's, buy cuz they want them.. period.

Wabiker, its not about competing, its about evolution. HD DOES need to compete with the jap bikes ( crotch rockets, crusiers, etc) cause if they stay stagent they will go the way of Indian. But I agree with you of the "jones" issue. I hate weekend warriors.

I'm 16, been riding since about a month after my 16th birthday, but ive been around Harleys most of my life. While most people my age think my bike is cool, Japanese garbage is cool these days, 4 cylinder everything (bikes, cars, they dont care, shove 4 cylinders in it) Even among people my own age i have had a few comments about my sporty being a girls bike, from people who have never ridden a motorcycle in their lives. Truthfully without more speed i dont believe it's possible for HD to reclaim the youth market, their fastest bike(not counting buell) is ridiculed as a girl's bike(the guys who did say that dont know how true it is, the girls love it, i'm a sophmore and i've had senior chicks come and start talkin to me about my bike). I dont believe there is anything they can do to claim people ages 16-18, no motorcycle company can due to the fact that the majority of parents do not want their teenagers on motorcycles. Oh, but if there is a way to get the youth market, its to hire the people who sell that stinky-ass axe crap, people spray gallons of that on themselves and everyone else.

F:censor K 4 cylinders! If you rode into your school on a chopper by Billy Lane or a '70 Chevelle 454, you might not be the fastest but you would be the king of your school!

Speed doesn't impress me unless your on a race track, otherwise its all about style ( tell that to your friends who ride those plastic bikes by the same company that makes lawn mowers)

F:censor K 4 cylinders!

Good point, since their "resurrection" by John Bloor, Triumph has offered at least one 4 cylinder bike. As of 2006, they dropped one of the 4 cylinder models and converted the other one to a triple.

Getting back to their roots of making twins and triples.

There is not one single Triumph owner/enthusiast that isn't ecstatic with the decision that I know of!

The new Triumph is really a success story and they obviously know the motorcycle market, otherwise they’d be another Indian/Excelsior-Henderson/Norton/etc. And they basically said F:censor K 4 cylinders!

The V-Rod is the future of H-D. I believe the days of the radial, dry sump carburated V-twins are numbered. ... Harley is putting all their R and D work and racing advances into V-rod technology. And that is not necessarily a bad thing. I mean Harley doesn't make flatheads or or knuckleheads any more and they have managed to survive for 100 years.

I have nothing against them marketing the new technology; any company that doesn't showcase their latest and greatest is run by fools and will be filing for bankruptcy protection soon enough. But the V-Rod has a very unique style, even for Harley people. This is where their marketing can cause them problems. If a potential buyer doesn't like the styling of the V-Rod and would prefer a more "classic" Harley look, he'll blow over the V-Rod ad and remember the next commercial for a Honda Shadow (that nowadays do a lot to look like a typical Harley).

When many people (outside of the motorcycle community) think of Harleys, they think of either full Dressers or $100,000 custom choppers. Even if at the end of their ads, they showed a quick lineup of a variety of bikes with one or two from each of their categories (Sportster, Dyna, Softail, VSRC, and Touring), then people would at least get a glimpse of the variety available. And, dare I say it...even a Buell? Not knowing how the parent company is set up tax-wise, I don't know the logistics in including products from two allegedly separate companies in one ad, but it would certainly expand the attraction base. I'm sure most people don't even know H-D's involved in racers!

The V-Rod is the future of H-D. I believe the days of the radial, dry sump carburated V-twins are numbered. What with ever more stringent pollution and noise regs and mileage requirements.
Nothing personal against the V-rod, but I hope you're wrong. The V-rod was a great experiment for Harley and I hope it keeps H-D competitive in the "power cruiser" segment. But I can't imagine Sportsters or Big Twins with liquid cooled engines - it would be so un-Harley. I'm sure Harley will find a way to keep the Sporty engines and the TC88 kosher with the emissions laws. I don't think most traditional cruiser buyers, either H-D or Jap, are looking for the latest and greatest in engine technology. They are looking for the best value, and that's the challenge for Harley to stay competitive in the future.

Now, I certainly think Buell will have to be a bigger part of Harley's future, if they want to make any effort at all to get the crotch rocket guys onto Harleys when they "slow down". It would behoove Harley to start marketting Buell better and a good start would be for H-D/Buell dealers to actually put Buells on the showroom floor.

I dont think air cooled twins are going anywhere too fast, most bikes produced are still non-calyst carburated models, there are still many paths available for keeping the bikes we love alive. And as for style, my bike is like rolling thunder cutting through a bunch of oversized weedwackers, you dont even have to see it to know ive got more style than anyone else on the parking lot. And as for that 1970 Chevelle LS-6 454, you hit my favorite car of all time right there.

All I'm gonna say is that I am going to continue to support the country that has been so good to me. I won't stop buying American until I have to, and if supporting my country means spending a little more money than so be it, but at least I'm not contributing to the weakening of the American manufacturing industry. It is sad how many products are being outsourced every day, and it is also sad how many people go to Wal-mart on a regular basis, but thats a hole other problem that we don't want to talk about...

Buy American....

you should look a little closer to the parts that are on your"American bike" and you'll see a lot of MADE IN JAPAN hell just look at the chrome wall at the dealership next time your there every doodad on the dam wall says made in Tiawain....at least when you buy a Yamakawisuzionda you know what your getting same thing with Polaris I tried to suport a American company by buying ther 90cc quad for my kidds christmas present in 02 called the local dealer and bought it site unseen {my fault}dealer delivered it COD {great guy} when it got unloaded the kids took off with big enough smiles to make a grown man shed a tear of joy when they returned an hour later I see the made in tiawan sticker on the hood and felt a little cheated but like I said before my fault for buying site unseen

sorry for the rant but it gets me every time I hear the be "American buy American" dribble for the love of god you do know that Honda has a plant in GA. don't you???

to each there own but don't fool your self with the patriotic BS your supporting about ten third world countries with your Harley and supporting polluting because how do you think it could be cheaper to get chrome parts from them when you have to ship it half way around the world IE. because there is no EPA in third world countries so they can dump toxic waste out the back door and into the water ..If you think this practice wont come back to bite us in the butt here I believe your wrong rain cycles will drop what they pour on the ground in our back yards so its bad for the American worker and every one of us that likes to breath clean air or drink clean water

well let the flaming begin this is my opinion that for a little while longer in America I'm still entitled to

you should look a little closer to the parts that are on your"American bike" and you'll see a lot of MADE IN JAPAN hell just look at the chrome wall at the dealership next time your there every doodad on the dam wall says made in Tiawain....at least when you buy a Yamakawisuzionda you know what your getting same thing with Polaris I tried to suport a American company by buying ther 90cc quad for my kidds christmas present in 02 called the local dealer and bought it site unseen {my fault}dealer delivered it COD {great guy} when it got unloaded the kids took off with big enough smiles to make a grown man shed a tear of joy when they returned an hour later I see the made in tiawan sticker on the hood and felt a little cheated but like I said before my fault for buying site unseen

sorry for the rant but it gets me every time I hear the be "American buy American" dribble for the love of god you do know that Honda has a plant in GA. don't you???

to each there own but don't fool your self with the patriotic BS your supporting about ten third world countries with your Harley and supporting polluting because how do you think it could be cheaper to get chrome parts from them when you have to ship it half way around the world IE. because there is no EPA in third world countries so they can dump toxic waste out the back door and into the water ..If you think this practice wont come back to bite us in the butt here I believe your wrong rain cycles will drop what they pour on the ground in our back yards so its bad for the American worker and every one of us that likes to breath clean air or drink clean water

well let the flaming begin this is my opinion that for a little while longer in America I'm still entitled to


No flaming here! I agree. I buy what I like, if its american, good, if not then an american company should learn and make it.

IMHO if it isn't air cooled it isn't a motorcycle. I might have to dodder around on a Ural in my old age. So what, I'm getting old. Matt

My god young old what the hell. HD lost its roots shit running a 30 year old ironhead sporty, and sure as hell wouldnt buy the new shit bikes HD puts out if they was the last company in the would. Has HD gone mad??? Japs use to try and copie from HD now HD is copyin of the japs!!!!! fule injection? computers? o2 sensors ect ect. What happend to Hd Ironheads not square alum heads like the japs. Oil drips being able to work on you'er oun bike and not having to spend big bucks for a dealer to fix it. HD realize you'er roots make you'er grand daddys the founders of HD proud and dont give into the high tech jap ideas and get back to what HD is about. Damn this is one 45 years of HD riding that will never buy a new japa davidson nomatter what ironhead or nothing thats HD!!!!!!

I think there are several factors, and price is one of them. Just out of high school and college and just starting out and new or lightly used metric is mighty attractive. HD comes into play a lot when you get established and all the other obligatory duties out of the way, wife, kids, mortgage and have a little more disposible income (and time LOL). I owned a metric enduro when I was a lot younger and got out of motorcycling, at age 39, got back involved and picked up 883L.

Also, kids are facinated by shiney technology and lets face it the Metrics have it, as you get older (as many of us have) and this is true in my case, slowly aquire an appreciation for HD. The seed was planted several years ago when my brother purchased his Heritage Softail Classic and I kicked it around for a few years and then just took off when a friend of mine bought a Wideglide and was able to take it for a ride and loved it! Nothing else seems to compare. I can't say what it is for sure but just something, intangible feeling about a HD that is enjoyable and not to found in the Japanese bikes.

Another factor is the perceived superior dependibility of the Metrics. Most of the youngins' have the perception that if you own a HD you have to be a Uber Gearhead, and that you spend more time wrenching than riding.

For a pitence you can get a state of the art metric that has more speed and power than I or many of older mature crowd will every need or have the desire to use, but for good or ill seem to attract the young folks.

Just my 2 cents

I'm not sure Harley has ever been aimed at "youth". Maybe in the 60's and 70's with their Ameracchi (sp?) line of two strokes and small bikes, but I'm sure most don't want them going back to something like that.
I think wanting a Harley as a youth is just something you either want or don't. I don't see ad campains or much else dissuading todays image conscience youth to go out and make an 883 "the bike" to have.
I've been a motorcycle freak (regardless of brand) from the time I knew what one was. I grew up lusting Triumphs and Harleys for whatever reason. When my brother got a '68 XLCH, that thing just etched things in my mind that made me want a Sportster. The smell, the sound, the hours of trying to kick start it:D :doh ............
When Harley came out with the XLX(luckily the same time I was old enough to get a license) that was IT, I had to save up and buy one.Worked summers and after school to do so. But the thing that appealed to me about the XLX was it was a stripped down, affordable, motor-cycle, and a Harley at that. And it just looked so right after the whole AMF years.
And the $3,999.00 883 from "86 - ? worked really well for sales. But they still have that with a base 883, and it's not out of line price wise for todays economy. So I think if Harley wants to attached youth that wants a "Harley", they still have a viable package. What more could you want to bring "youth" into the Harley fold? They have Buell if performance is it.
I really don't think either that the lack of younger riders is going to hurt Harley either. There will always be that group of poeple that can finally afford to buy that Harley that is "cool" now, or that they always wanted but had too many other comitments, or are having a mid-life crisis, or to keep up with the Jones', whatever the reason.
I think they do need to keep a plain Jane, stripped 883 in the line no matter what. Are you listening Harley? Whether you step up from there, or like me, just keep loving Sportsters, you still have a customer for life. Or at least a long damn time.
So I say, Harley, just keep a reasonably priced base Sportster in the line, and thanks for bikes like the XLX and 883. If there are young people that really want a Harley, the base Sportster is within reach and a viable package. Let the baggy pants, crooked hat wearin' youth grow up and realize what they are missing.

Getting youngins to buy a 40 something hp 883 for the same or more money than a rice rocket hasn't worked and ain't gonna work.

Mean while Harley has had such success it has put a hurtin on resale. Granted it is the wrong time of year but take a look at ebay sportys. Even BT guys I run with are whining.

Youngsters know what they want now the same as I did in the 60s. Back then fast was Triumph, Norton, BSA, and the Sporty. But things changed quick in 69/70 when Honda and Kawasaki dropped the 750/4 and 500/3 on us. Then came the Z1 in 73...

It was all over and only Harley managed to survive until the reborn Triumphs.

I bought a Harley because i wanted a MOTORCYCLE, and i didnt have to look any further. My triumph is a glorified moped even though i like it. It just doesnt have that motorcycle feeling that you get in your balls/ovaries when you pull the throttle back.

I just got back from the HD vegas shop, all the stuff was made in taiwan and china. Then there was the hog meeting going on. As a 25 yr old I'd be uncomfortable being in a group with people my parents and grandfathers age.
Who is a young harley rider supposed to ride and fit with besides his buddies on gsxr's and cbr's. And atleast most jap bike parts are made in japan which is noted for making quuality stuff.

When is Harley going to brake away and put out a motor of 100 C.I. or larger?

I know, 96 is what ya got and that ain't that much smaller but I've got the need for speed! How about 128 C.I. ??:chop :usmc:

They need to lose about a 100lbs of weight for a start. They won't need a bigger engine, it won't have to do so much work! :D

They need to lose about a 100lbs of weight for a start. They won't need a bigger engine, it won't have to do so much work! :D


Why do we buy a bike and then proceed to add to its weight with extra lights,screens,crash bars,Sissy bars etc and say that the Co need to trim weight. I wonder what the average weight of a Harley rider is too, I for one could loose 50 or 60 lbs. Another thing would be to replace all the tins with plastic parts and maybe an aluminium frame, with all this the bike would have a better power to weight ratio, oh but then we may as well buy a Japanese cruiser. I for one am happy with my Sportster!:banana

Well I'm 31 and just bought my first Harley in August, a 1990 1200 Sportster. It was what I can afford, but I did go back and forth with making a desition on weather to get a 1997 Yamaha YZF 1000R for $4000 or the Sporty I paid $3800 for, in the end Harly won because I always wanted one. My dream was a Fatboy but used prices go for $12000 and new likw $18000. There is a definit seperation between Harley riders and rice burner riders. Most of the younger folk I talk to are about numbers. A new 1200R goes for about $9000, has about 58HP RW and handling is what it is, compared with an equally priced rice burner like a Suzuki GSXR 750, which has about 140 RW HP is the best handling Jap sport bike on the planet out the door, now add in all the wacky colors and grafics, Hip Hop videos with rappers that have these bikes, movies that are spicifically about crotch rocket racing, the various stunt videos, as you can see it's hard to get the younger inner city guys to buy into the cruser. An example my boy (30 YO) just bought a new Kawasaki ZX6RR, but said he would want a Harley someday, and that he just dosn't look right on one now, this is the way a lot of younger guys feel. Now if marketing started targeting these people they may win some more buyers.

Should BMW reconsider what they are producing just because todays "youth" don't want, or can't afford what they currently offer.Should they be scared for theor future? How about BMW cars and Mercedes and Porsche? Why exactly does Harley need to appeal to todays youth to save themselves? Peoples needs and wants change as they MATURE and age. Thankfully, most of the time, so does their income and expenditures on thing like motorcycles.
As I stated earlier, if you are like me and wanted a Harley from day one, you worked and saved up for whatever Harley you can afford. Most likely a base Sportster. I easily managed to buy one my senior year in high school. To this day I still love (and still ride one)Sportsters and (most)Harleys in general. I matured from a Sportster riding youth into liking sport bikes and roadracing them. What does that say?
I don't see Harley struggling in the future due to the fact that todays "youth" would rather profile on a 600 or 750 sportbike. Maybe someone can point out what I don't see. Did their past attempts at "youth" appeal help any? If they developed a "youth" appealing bike wouldn't everybody start bitchin' about "that's not a really Harley". How do you want them to woo the young?
Can today's youth even throw a leg over a bike with their pants hanging down around their knees?

Very Interesting thread. I have ridden going on 35 years (damn I'm old) and my 1st and last Harley is my '05 Custom. I really like the bike but my Goldwing is a better touring bike than any HD made. The Honda CBR RR 600 will run rings around the sporty and the list goes on and on.

HD is a lifestyle purchase not a best in class purchase. There is a better motorcycle (be it a rice burner, a Duke, Bemmer etc.) than each and every specific Harley. But Harley's are fun to ride and the HD community is fantastic (the only one that rivals HD is the Goldwing community).

Will I be keeping my sporty? Absolutely!!! Will I buy another HD? Nope...

So what is Harley to do? Not sure... My wife who is a Harley girl thru and thru sees the handwriting on the walls, moderately declining sales, you rarely see a younger rider on a Harley, younger riders are growing up on rice burners (like I did) and will not be happy with the relatively antiquated technology of a HD.

My first thought is to either acquire another brand such as Ducati or Moto Guzzi or merge with the likes of a Honda. Does it have to happen right now? No. In the future? Probably.

Only time will tell...

PS. The softail is my wife's.

I have a MZ 250 with a fairing that is 21 years old, handling wise, it beats the pants off of the Sporty anytime, where of course the Sporty wins, is with the torque and power, plus of course that lovely v twin sound! I still think that a Sporty with a lot less weight would be a far better m/c. :D

In the cruiser segment, the Sportster is positioned against the Jap middlewieght cruisers, but the Sportster is really more of a retro sport bike or standard than a cruiser. I think H-D would do well to put out a moderately priced, mid-size model with classic "big" styling to compete directly with the C50s, Vulcan 900s, and Shadows. Bring in the younger cruiser riders who can't afford a big twin now, but would trade up for one later. It should be something on the order of a Softtail chassis with a Sportster engine sold in the $9-12K range - between the Sportster and the Dyna. It could be a sort resurrection of the old WL "45" models from the 40's, which were sold precisely to suck in the guys who lusted after a big-twin, but couldn't afford one.

Bingo! An 883 Sportster is almost 7G but if you want something bigger (Physically, not displacement) you have to almost double the price for a base Dyna. A 1200cc bike with big cruiser styling and factory equipped (useable back seat, rear pegs, 2-up capable shocks) in the 9-10K range would be ideal...but HD will never do it and the big dispacement egomaniacs would talk trash all over it.
I'd prefer something with regular shocks over a softail design for ride quality and ease of adjustment.
Some people say that Harleys are not much more expensive than a jap bike but you can't compare a blank canvas to an equipped bike. You can buy a Vulcan 900 for almost the same price and not have to upgrade ANYTHING. So far, I had to add a rear seat, rear pegs, useable handle bars, and 2-up capable rear shocks to my Sporty just to put it in the same league.

This post may piss some people off, but I'm just being realistic:

Young people want to ride sportbikes, plain and simple. They do not want Harleys, and it's not a money issue. If they'd really wanted to ride a Harley (or other cruiser) there would be plenty of ways to do so. For the price of an R1 or GSX-R you could buy a Sportster 1200 or even a low mileage used Big Twin nowadays.

Harley has the image of an old mans bike to younger people, and I think it would be wise of Harley to try to change that. Who's going to buy the bikes when the baby boomers are gone? Most of the young people we see on sportbikes now are going to "graduate" to standards (FZ-1, 919 etc) or sport touring bikes (FJR1300 etc).

Also the Harley name itself and the fact that it is an American product doesn't mean as much to younger riders. These guys have grown up with the japanese brands. They are cheering on Nicky Hayden (Repsol Honda) on the weekends and and then go out and buy a CBR on monday.

This post may piss some people off, but I'm just being realistic:

Young people want to ride sportbikes, plain and simple. They do not want Harleys, and it's not a money issue. If they'd really wanted to ride a Harley (or other cruiser) there would be plenty of ways to do so. For the price of an R1 or GSX-R you could buy a Sportster 1200 or even a low mileage used Big Twin nowadays.

Harley has the image of an old mans bike to younger people, and I think it would be wise of Harley to try to change that. Who's going to buy the bikes when the baby boomers are gone? Most of the young people we see on sportbikes now are going to "graduate" to standards (FZ-1, 919 etc) or sport touring bikes (FJR1300 etc).

Also the Harley name itself and the fact that it is an American product doesn't mean as much to younger riders. These guys have grown up with the japanese brands. They are cheering on Nicky Hayden (Repsol Honda) on the weekends and and then go out and buy a CBR on monday.

I have to agree with this overall assessment. As to Harley's long-term future, if the attraction of the H-D 'bad boy' image continues to be relevant to a significant number in the immediately succeeding generations once the 'boomers' have gone, Harley will be able to continue the same slow evolutionary process they've followed all these years. To the majority of young riders today, however, H-D is the motorcycle equivalent of a Buick. They wouldn't be caught dead in a Harley showroom and have no interest in the Harley 'lifestyle' promise. That was something for their parents and grandparents. Will this change as they age? It's possible, I guess, but even the nostalgia window moves with time. The 60s and 70s are already something from the history books for these young folks and their nostalgia tendencies will undoubtably be different from those of the boomers.