H-D seems to be the only bike out there, that comes from the factory in an unfinished state. The 883 needs to be a 1200. The 1200 needs to be rejetted, re-piped, re-breathed. The pipes range from $200 (SC) to well over $500 (V&H) with HD's own SE slip-ons somewhere in between. There are too many air cleaners to even go into...seems everything on your new shiny HD must be tossed into a box in the garage, and replaced asap. Keep the OEM parts in case the EPA nazis should strike! Funny how Jap bikes come from the store ready to rock and roll, right out of the box. You didn't buy a new Harley....you bought a "License to shop".
I passed a transport truck yesterday. Opened the "taps" at 100kph, and I was going through 140kph by the time I passed the cab! It's a standard "out of the box" 1200C....how much "jam" do you need?

If you have to ask why, then you wouldn't understand....but hang
around here long enough and you'll get it. :D

I have an 883 so I guess I had a good reason to do the stage 1?

My neighbor bought an R1 a couple years ago, brand spankin
new he was tearing crap off it and modding stuff, so I don't
think the bug only bites HD owners.

If you have to ask why, then you wouldn't understand....but hang
around here long enough and you'll get it. :D

I have an 883 so I guess I had a good reason to do the stage 1?

My neighbor bought an R1 a couple years ago, brand spankin
new he was tearing crap off it and modding stuff, so I don't
think the bug only bites HD owners.

I'll agree with that xena.:D

But it's not just HD, here in Japan you wouldn't believe the number of aftermarket manufacturers, suppliers, dealers, indies, and DIY part shops, seem to be everywhere, a lot of riders here take their bikes very seriously constantly looking for just that little bit more.

Could be that that's why HD has been excepted here, the Japanese are used to ripping off the factory stuff and replacing it with high performance kit.:)

They do it even though you have to throw all the stock stuff back on every two years for your inspection.:(

Most of the reasonably serious riders here wouldn't be caught dead on a stock bike no matter what make or where it was made. Hey, even a stock Busa here is considered a sport sofa. :laugh

Cheers,

Mark

Because when I picked up my '05 CA version 883XL in October of '04 it ran like crap: carb farted constantly, wouldn't idle correctly, stalled at seemingly every stop and took forever to warm up. Beyond that, it sounded like an old Honda 350 Scrambler. The dealer blamed everything on the smog requirements in CA. The Mo-Co customer service claimed ignorance and insisted it should run perfectly.

Of course, I was forewarned about this by every Harley rider I know. As promised, the Stage I for about $700 fixed all those issues, but is that really the point? H-D has to be the only manufacturer on the planet that sells ANYTHING that has to be modified straight out of the box in order to fulfill its intended purpose.

I've since gone on to spend about 4 times the cost of the Stage I to turn it into the bike I wanted, figuring, in for a penny, in for a pound. That said, I can promise one thing (and it goes for most of the other Harley owners I ride with), as happy as I am with the state my bike is in now, when the time comes to move on to another bike, it WILL NOT, under any circumstances, be a Harley-Davidson. There are too many other manufacturers out there, including if you want to go American, Victory, that make machines that work as they should from day one. Fool me once, your fault; fool me twice, my fault.

More power, more sound, better looks....simple as that, haha :)

i have a stock bike that runs just fine. It is just an owner's preference as to what they want to add to it to make it their own. It is like a muscle car. You work on it to your liking.

JohnT...well put. That's my whole point. It should actually run right when you bring it home from day one! There is nothing on my bike that HD dosen't think needs to be replaced! I'm not talking bags and shields, or chrome etc., but the stuff you need to make it run right! I may well be adding stuff to my Sporty, but it will NOT be stuff made in WI!!

I think some of this has to fall on the dealers shoulders as well. These bikes require proper dealer prep. This is part of the agreement that HD has with their dealers. Now I'm not talking about the power of the bike, of course it would be nice if stage 1 was standard, but when I see posts that say things like; it ran like crap from day 1 then I know it's a dealer issue. These bikes in stock form can and do run right if the dealer does his job properly.

I knew before I bought my current 1200 that I would probably spend double the sticker price before I would be completely happy with it, but after I do finish doing everything, it will truly be my bike, it won't be the same as everybody else. It didn't come from a mold.

One thing about the Japanese bikes is that they are designed from the ground up for production, very much a cookie cutter approach.

If I just wanted to put my money down and drive off and never need to make any changes I would have bought a different make this time, in fact I've done that in the past when I knew I didn't have any time to work on the bike.

One of my other bikes is a Honda CBR600, stock except for exhaust, I've had it for six years and have never had the desire to do anything to it but ride, other than occasional service never needed to, and from day one I could pass any car or truck on the highway with ease.

But, it's not a Harley, it's transportation. (and a lot of fun in the twisties)

Honestly, of course it would be great if the Sporty came stock with 90HP, had good suspension, good tires, etc., etc., and HD has the ability to do that, but everything comes at a price, and it would screw up their marketing completely. They are into selling volume, it's the only way they will survive.

I'm sure that there are many Sporty owners out there that are very happy with their bikes and don't even know what stage 1 is, but are just happy that they finally have a Harley.

Cheers,


Mark

well, some of the stuff they have to do for govt. regulations. We can get our bikes to go faster by cicumventing the law. If loud, high performance pipes were legal, harley would put them on stock. My oil breather is not legal by EPA standards, but I got sick of it puking into my air cleaner. The list goes on...it's not the company's fault.

Yeah, I agree a lot has to do with the EPA. I'n fact I'm thinking that 5 years from now bikes as we know them today will not be for sale any more. I'm going to hold on to the Sporty hoping that they'll let us grandfather our existing bikes.

Cheers,

Mark

cuz u have2 to be koolzor, duude!

JohnT and Skysailor,

I think you guys have missed the point altogether. HD knows that for 50 years their customers have been chopping shit off their bikes and bolting homebrew stuff on. That's their base market. They could make a jap style bike that would never need any parts changed (e.g. the V-Rod), but that wouldn't make their customer base happy. They need to keep the Sporty's and Dyna's simple so that they can be chopped, bobbed, ratty'd, etc. by the average Joe.

HD has the V-Rod if you want performance out of the box that has no user servicable parts. And the have Softails for yuppies that want to have the dealer bolt all of their chrome onto. And they have the Touring class for cross country travel with the option for mods.

If what you got in your Sporty is not what you are looking for ...... DUH .... you bought the wrong bike. Get over it!! It was your mistake not the MOCOs mistake.

Gazza

JohnT and Skysailor,

I think you guys have missed the point altogether. HD knows that for 50 years their customers have been chopping shit off their bikes and bolting homebrew stuff on. That's their base market. They could make a jap style bike that would never need any parts changed (e.g. the V-Rod), but that wouldn't make their customer base happy. They need to keep the Sporty's and Dyna's simple so that they can be chopped, bobbed, ratty'd, etc. by the average Joe.

HD has the V-Rod if you want performance out of the box that has no user servicable parts. And the have Softails for yuppies that want to have the dealer bolt all of their chrome onto. And they have the Touring class for cross country travel with the option for mods.

If what you got in your Sporty is not what you are looking for ...... DUH .... you bought the wrong bike. Get over it!! It was your mistake not the MOCOs mistake.

Gazza

BAM! You got it Gazza...

BAM! You don't have it.

The marketing folks at Harley must love this forum. Someone notes something negative about Harley, a few others agree, and the H-D apologists come out of the woodwork. Why take this so personally? Do you own stock in Harley? I do and it hasn’t changed my opinion on this.

Fact: Not a day goes by on this forum that someone isn't bitching about Harley's seats, exhaust systems, air cleaners, mirrors, handlebars, whatever, practically everything that can be unbolted from the bike. It's all crap to some.

Bottom line, you buy something, anything, it should work. Period. You shouldn't have to replace anything on it to make it perform as advertised. That's like paying $5,000 or $6,000 for the hottest big screen TV, getting it home and finding out the picture is crap, and the manufacturer telling you, we can make it do what it's supposed to for another $1,000, but remember, you now own a Sony, or whatever, as if that makes it OK, that you own the hot brand.

But that’s how it works in Harleyland. The Mo-Co has somehow convinced some people that Harley machines are platforms that you can use to build something unique to you, that is different from everything else and, therefore, you should immediately begin to dismantle your new bike and happily to dump more money into their, and the aftermarket companies', pockets.

You could say the same for a Mustang, a Corvette, Charger, any BMW, even a Mercedes. They can all be built into something special as well. But not everyone wants to “make it their own.” Some just want to ride/drive it. The real difference here is, these other vehicles will all perform as advertised from day one, with no modification.

One excuse is it’s the EPA’s fault. B.S. Other vehicle manufacturers manage to build and sell vehicles (motorcycles included) that comply with the new EPA regs, why can't Harley?

I’ve also read the “I don’t want a cookie cutter bike” line before. Really. The next time you’re out riding with a group of Harley riders, or even see a group of Harley riders, take note of how many of those bikes are really customized/modified (except for maybe a load of chrome doodads). I just did a ride with 25 or 30 others and only one had been really modified (it was a lowered Night Train with a big rear tire). All the rest looked like they had just come out of the showroom (ridden by riders wearing a total of at least $15k worth of H-D Motorclothes). In random conversations with some of the riders were there any complaints of the type that set off this thread? You betcha.

Now, let’s see. Can Harley survive depending on 1/30, 1/25 or even 1/10 of its customer base? Don’t think so.

In the end, all this wrangling comes down to nothing. H-D is a business and what it really wants and needs is a NEW and GROWING base market. They are a publicly traded company. That means the shareholders and stock analysts want to see them grow . . . every quarter. And to grow, they are going to have to attract buyers beyond those who will settle for whatever they put out just because it's a Harley. That means making reliable machines that will work as advertised out of the box.

As to whoever said. “If what you got in your Sporty is not what you are looking for ...... DUH .... you bought the wrong bike. Get over it!!” I hope they remember that the next time they buy something that doesn’t work the way it should, and just get over it.

As to my bike, I like it just fine . . . now. Would I buy another Harley? No. But there are also other brands of vehicles I've owned (cars, trucks and motorcycles) that, for one reason or another, I wouldn't buy again either. It’s nothing against anyone else here or a knock on their decision, opinion, whatever. It’s just my choice.

Will Harley miss the $20k or so that I won’t drop in their pocket for my next bike? Probably not. But if too many others begin to vote with their wallets, they damned well will. They will begin to listen very closely.

Wait! What’s that? Who is speaking? The shareholders? Analysts? You say the Harley execs are already listening? Oh, right. I guess they are. It’s called the V-Rod

When I started this thread, I did indicate that my 1200C had enough "jam" as it is. I was looking for the "reasons" people pay "taxes". Harley has always been a "diamond in the rough", but it should be servicable, reliable and bolted together out of the box.
Must wonder if there would be a market for a "you finish" product. Sell them without exhaust systems, air cleaners, handlebars, footpegs, carb jets etc. You choose them.....
And dont even get me started on "Motorclothes"....one word...RUB!!

honestly? I didn't want my bike to sound like a lawn mower.

ok as for the bike out of the box.... It's just fine... However as long as there is a modification for anything and this means the metric bikes too IE...pipes and mod chips for performance... as long as theres a mod guys and gals alike will MODIFY... My ride was fine out of the box so to speak however being the Modifier that I am, I went searching for aftermarket parts...and found you guys here and learned a crapload about STAGE 1's and did mine by myself after a lot of homework, and when I started her up and took her for her first ride after the MOD she woke up and I do mean woke up.. was this ride ok before? yes. But now she's FINE...
Thats what modifying is all about PERSONALIZING... I did it with my Avalanche and now my Harley... But I also did it with my Predator 500 Quad, My old GSXR and My Ninja so you can run stock or you can wake em up and MODIFY your ride...:clap :clap

Why take this so personally?
I have yet to hear anyone in this thread take anything personally. Just talking.

Bottom line, you buy something, anything, it should work. Period. You shouldn't have to replace anything on it to make it perform as advertised.
You keep saying this, so what advertisements aren't being met? As far as I can tell HD gives you accurate power and performance numbers, a price up front, and will even let you test drive what you buy. That's pretty honest to me.

That's like paying $5,000 or $6,000 for the hottest big screen TV, getting it home and finding out the picture is crap, and the manufacturer telling you, we can make it do what it's supposed to for another $1,000, but remember, you now own a Sony, or whatever, as if that makes it OK, that you own the hot brand.
Actually, its like finding out when you get it home that you like it, but that maybe you can make it -even better-. Try hitting the home theater forums sometime. Replace "v-twin" with "high definition" and you've got the exact same posts.

The real difference here is, these other vehicles will all perform as advertised from day one, with no modification.
Again, I'm missing the false advertising here.

One excuse is it’s the EPA’s fault. B.S. Other vehicle manufacturers manage to build and sell vehicles (motorcycles included) that comply with the new EPA regs, why can't Harley?
Uh, they do comply with the regs...

I just did a ride with 25 or 30 others and only one had been really modified (it was a lowered Night Train with a big rear tire). All the rest looked like they had just come out of the showroom (ridden by riders wearing a total of at least $15k worth of H-D Motorclothes).
Seems like that has more to do with the type of people you ride with than HD.


That means making reliable machines that will work as advertised out of the box.
More false advertising?...

It’s just my choice.
Fully agreed. That's the nice part about all of this, we all get to make our own choices.

Well this has been interesting reading. It's hard to believe that some new Harleys do not run good. Even an 883 and what is wrong with that runs great to me in an unaltered state. Plenty of power and smooth enough. My personal Harley is an '06 XL 1200. Could not ask for a better running bike right out of the box. I have had plenty of bikes including ATVs, in fact this Harley is bike number 45. All my new Harley needed as would any Japanese bike was a little more sound. It is getting that right now. At least Harley's sound good when a little louder...not all those others do. If you don't believe me try loud pipes as I did on a twin cylinder Honda Rebel 250. In less than 25 miles I had them off. It sounded as some claimed like a mad chain saw. I don't know how much more power a Harley rider could want or need. However, people are different and any bike could be that right one depending on the owner. I have been happy with all kinds of bikes and now I am happy with my Sportster. I know you have heard that saying about different strokes. Thanks for listening........Dan

I think their are two types of people in this world, 1. Those who buy "stuff" and use it out of the box and 2. Those who buy stuff and modify to their own personal liking/style. I just feel that HD gives you a blank palete for you to create your own work of art or a motorcycle. ... I use to be into computers and never bought one out of the box, I would go through the catalogs and purchase all the parts and put it together. I would take pleasure in building my super duper computer and getting the best parts for what I want. After all was said and done it didn't have any different parts then other computers just the best parts that I thought were better suited for me. To me HD gives me the joy/pleasure to trully customize the bike that FITS me :)

BAM! You don't have it.

The marketing folks at Harley must love this forum. Someone notes something negative about Harley, a few others agree, and the H-D apologists come out of the woodwork. Why take this so personally? Do you own stock in Harley? I do and it hasn’t changed my opinion on this.

Fact: Not a day goes by on this forum that someone isn't bitching about Harley's seats, exhaust systems, air cleaners, mirrors, handlebars, whatever, practically everything that can be unbolted from the bike. It's all crap to some.

Bottom line, you buy something, anything, it should work. Period. You shouldn't have to replace anything on it to make it perform as advertised. That's like paying $5,000 or $6,000 for the hottest big screen TV, getting it home and finding out the picture is crap, and the manufacturer telling you, we can make it do what it's supposed to for another $1,000, but remember, you now own a Sony, or whatever, as if that makes it OK, that you own the hot brand.

But that’s how it works in Harleyland. The Mo-Co has somehow convinced some people that Harley machines are platforms that you can use to build something unique to you, that is different from everything else and, therefore, you should immediately begin to dismantle your new bike and happily to dump more money into their, and the aftermarket companies', pockets.

You could say the same for a Mustang, a Corvette, Charger, any BMW, even a Mercedes. They can all be built into something special as well. But not everyone wants to “make it their own.” Some just want to ride/drive it. The real difference here is, these other vehicles will all perform as advertised from day one, with no modification.

One excuse is it’s the EPA’s fault. B.S. Other vehicle manufacturers manage to build and sell vehicles (motorcycles included) that comply with the new EPA regs, why can't Harley?

I’ve also read the “I don’t want a cookie cutter bike” line before. Really. The next time you’re out riding with a group of Harley riders, or even see a group of Harley riders, take note of how many of those bikes are really customized/modified (except for maybe a load of chrome doodads). I just did a ride with 25 or 30 others and only one had been really modified (it was a lowered Night Train with a big rear tire). All the rest looked like they had just come out of the showroom (ridden by riders wearing a total of at least $15k worth of H-D Motorclothes). In random conversations with some of the riders were there any complaints of the type that set off this thread? You betcha.

Now, let’s see. Can Harley survive depending on 1/30, 1/25 or even 1/10 of its customer base? Don’t think so.

In the end, all this wrangling comes down to nothing. H-D is a business and what it really wants and needs is a NEW and GROWING base market. They are a publicly traded company. That means the shareholders and stock analysts want to see them grow . . . every quarter. And to grow, they are going to have to attract buyers beyond those who will settle for whatever they put out just because it's a Harley. That means making reliable machines that will work as advertised out of the box.

As to whoever said. “If what you got in your Sporty is not what you are looking for ...... DUH .... you bought the wrong bike. Get over it!!” I hope they remember that the next time they buy something that doesn’t work the way it should, and just get over it.

As to my bike, I like it just fine . . . now. Would I buy another Harley? No. But there are also other brands of vehicles I've owned (cars, trucks and motorcycles) that, for one reason or another, I wouldn't buy again either. It’s nothing against anyone else here or a knock on their decision, opinion, whatever. It’s just my choice.

Will Harley miss the $20k or so that I won’t drop in their pocket for my next bike? Probably not. But if too many others begin to vote with their wallets, they damned well will. They will begin to listen very closely.

Wait! What’s that? Who is speaking? The shareholders? Analysts? You say the Harley execs are already listening? Oh, right. I guess they are. It’s called the V-Rod

Well, guess what. I bought a 2006 1200 custom. Ran Great! Not a problem. I had the carb fart one time, but it was because I didn't let the bike warm up properly. I ran the enrichener for about 10 secs, pushed it in and took off. I got the carb fart at the end of the block, and then it ran fine after that.

I put different pipes on because I wanted my Harley louder, not because I needed it. I switched air cleaners because I wanted more power, not because I needed it. I am getting a new seat because I WANT to ride my Harley on 500+ mile rides, not because I need to.

The bike was designed just fine. My dealer did a good job in doing the final tuning needed for a carburated bike at sea level in high humidity. If your dealer didn't tune your bike properly before you picked it up then take it BACK! and MAKE them do their job. What is so hard about that?

Okay, for pipes, I'm going with V&H ShortShots. I think the sidshots look hot, but too many $$! Air cleaner? Thinking Ram flow, or Doherty. Progressive 412's. Avon tyres and Brembo brakes. And a radar detector!

Why did i pay tax's?

well, the IRS has no sense of humor, that and the Hole"Going to Prison" thing is a great encouragement too.

The 883 needs to be a 1200.
Why does it? If you want a 1200, buy a 1200. I wanted an 883, and that's what I bought.

Funny how Jap bikes come from the store ready to rock and roll, right out of the box.
Rock and roll? I don't think so. All the ones I've seen are mostly made of plastic and sound like cordless screwdrivers.

My bike runs fine in stock condition. Yes I've changed some things on it, and I will change others. The MoCo could have marketed a bike with improved versions of all those things, but I bet the things they put on wouldn't have been exactly what I would choose, and if they were they wouldn't exactly suit anyone else.

As for paying the taxes, I haven't yet, but I will. Not mainly because I want lots more power, but because I don't like the crankcase breather going into the carb, and I like the look of a round air cleaner. I wouldn't mind the pipes being a little louder, but I don't want very loud pipes, which is why I'm thinking about the 49 State Street Legal ones.

"You see, most blokes will be playing at 10. You’re on 10, all the way up, all the way up...Where can you go from there? Nowhere. What we do, is if we need that extra push over the cliff...Eleven. One louder." DiBergi: "Why don’t you just make 10 louder and make 10 be the top number, and make that a little louder?" Nigel (after taking a moment to let this sink in): "These go to 11."

I paid my taxes cause I wanted to,not because I had to.
I rode my 1200R for six months bone stock and it ran fine,albeit with an occasional carb fart.
The whole concept that you HAVE to pay the tax to make it run right is just BS.
The Sportster runs very well in stock trim,and sounds pretty damn good too.
(compared to any Jap bike,you could not here my wifes V-Star at all if my bike was running next to it.....STOCK!)
Does it run better and sound better after stage one?
Of course it does.
But so does any Jap bike...or my truck for that matter.

A stock Sportster should run JUST FINE out-of-the-box.....

I call the Sporty a "sportbike with soul"....as such, she tells me what she wants, and I give it to her... (or is that the voices in my head????) :laugh

The GREAT PART about the Sporty is all of the things you can do to it/ make it do...

I did the Stage 1 becuase I was curious....when I was done, I liked the differences I noted...Same with my conversion...

I didn't HAVE to do ANY of this.....but I'm glad I did....

Why did i pay tax's?

well, the IRS has no sense of humor, that and the Hole"Going to Prison" thing is a great encouragement too.
:doh Good point!:roflblack

... when the time comes to move on to another bike, it WILL NOT, under any circumstances, be a Harley-Davidson. There are too many other manufacturers out there, including if you want to go American, Victory, that make machines that work as they should from day one. Fool me once, your fault; fool me twice, my fault.

Ummn dude, you have a Harley AND a Buell, they ALREADY got you again!

:gun

Stick 'em up!

I'm with Jeffytune, paid taxes to avoid jailtime...:roflblack:roflblack:roflblack

Bought a sweet 883 Custom last year, made it a bagger this year, riding and running fine, 55 MPG without any engine/carb/aircleaner mods....:wonderlan:wonderlan:wonderlan

Dealer I bought it from has a lot of nice people that talk to me even if I don't buy anything...:D:D:D

Oh yeah. Sold a yamaha to get another sporty...... :banana:banana:banana

i didnt see paying taxes as fixing anything. i saw it as getting the most out of my bike. btw, one of the biggest gains to carbed jap bikes is jetting. we are not the only ones doing this. freeing up power. i do like jap bikes but hated working on them. harley has nothing hidden. i dont have a single stock vehicle, everything has been modified. give me a jap bike which is ready to rock and roll and ill find something to change.

I bought an 883L because I liked the look, wanted a Harley, and I could afford it. Yeah, at this point a year later, I've put enough money into it that I could have just bought the 1200C I really wanted. But you know what, I didn't. And I love what I've got. I may get another bike in the future, and yeah, it'll be another Harley. The 883L that was delivered to my house was exactly what I expected: An 883. Powerful enough, rode great, looked great. But I wanted more, so I made some changes. I could have left it; just like anyone who buys a car--any brand, Japanese or American or German--could do as well, but a lot don't. It's choice people! God Bless America! :luvsport :usa3 :usaflag

Don't buy thr 49 state street legal pipes. I did and if anything, they were quieter than the stock pipes. The worst thing about them was that they really ruined the running of my '06 XL 1200 Custom and they caused a lot of new vibrations. I don't know if jetting changes would have helped or not, but why...no better sound. They are a no no for me. I spent $260.00 for them plus $30 twice (on and off) then auctioned them off on ebay for $75.00. I am having Cycle Shack tapers put on now...hope they are not too loud...Dan

More power, more sound, better looks....simple as that, haha :)
And as told you before: Its my hobby, and if it`s not expensive!!:smoke
It`s not a hobby:roflblack :roflblack :roflblack :roflblack :roflblack :roflblack

Don't buy thr 49 state street legal pipes. I did and if anything, they were quieter than the stock pipes. The worst thing about them was that they really ruined the running of my '06 XL 1200 Custom and they caused a lot of new vibrations. I don't know if jetting changes would have helped or not, but why...no better sound. They are a no no for me. I spent $260.00 for them plus $30 twice (on and off) then auctioned them off on ebay for $75.00. I am having Cycle Shack tapers put on now...hope they are not too loud...Dan
Thanks for the tip. Perhaps I'll try Cycle Shacks instead, or Python slip ons, or V&H slip ons with quiet baffles, or … :confused:

I payed my taxes because that's what all the cool people do.




And oh yeah, HD is not the only accesory-mad bikes out there..plenty of stuff out there for Jap bikes - both cruisers and rockets.

Oh Damn, I put Cycle Shack Baloney Slice muffs on yesterday and I have to admit there isn't much muffling of anything on it! I must be a wimp (and everyone said - YOU'RE A WIMP!) because it seems too loud for me.

I did it for more sound, the look, and the extra power is cool too, but if there isn't a baffle I can stick in there to replace the one it it, then I'm afraid the Cycle Shacks are history.

Question *Why did I pay Taxes*... Cuz I got cut off by a Buick LeSabre which almost put me in a ditch and the stock 883 was to gutless to catch it on the I-5, yet fast enough to get a freaking ticket.

Hey John T, its ok. You don't have to do anything to your bike. take it back to the dealer and have them tune it right. You can have them do all your wrenching for you if you like. Just gas and ride, if thats your thing. Have a party:smoke Just relax, this is supposed to be fun.

I just put CS tapers on my XL 1200 and took them off the next day. Much too loud for me. They sounded good when cranking up and going through the gears, but at steady hiway speeds they were bothersome. Made my new bike seem like a rat bike. I could not hear the twin cylinder sound at hiway speed...sounded like a single...put, put, put. Where did the v-twin sound go at speed? Anyway, as much as I hated to, I have returned to the stock mufflers. By the way, the bike ran just fine as far as I could tell with the Cycle Shack slip-ons with no carb or A/C mods. I did not do a spark plug check. These mufflers will be offered for sale on ebay tomorrow unless one of you fellow XL Forum bikers emails me to purchase them... What about $120 plus shipping? ebikerman@mchsi.com .....Dan

I didn’t pay my taxes until after the bike had 1k miles on it. The dealer I bought it from sold Honda's too and they told me to just give it a chance before moding it. To be honest it ran fine, idled fine. However I wanted more power, and for not much jack you can get a lot more power (% wise). Yes I have changed out the seat, shocks and fork springs. However I know a BMW sport bike rider that has very similar mods on his bike.

I like my bike and if I every buy another one it will probably be a HD Street Rod.

i have to say that my 05 did run just fine when i picked it up and the stage 1 was done to get it more like the harley i have grown acustom to.and have had no major problems since i owned it (except my own mistakes)

This thread is still going?! :laugh

I think Xena pretty much covered it in post #2

If you have to ask why, then you wouldn't understand....

I think Gronk had a good point too. If you're whining about your purchase you bought the wrong bike.

pquirk...love the bike, just finding out some interesting facts...about why people do what they do...and what they do...and where. I'm trying to find the best way to go to open up my bike a little. Pipes, AC etc. Dont even know what "indy" means.....but I think I've figured that out. So, no, I did get the right bike. I'm just looking for how to make it better. And, it's been a pretty good read!

pquirk...love the bike, just finding out some interesting facts...about why people do what they do...and what they do...and where. I'm trying to find the best way to go to open up my bike a little. Pipes, AC etc. Dont even know what "indy" means.....but I think I've figured that out. So, no, I did get the right bike. I'm just looking for how to make it better. And, it's been a pretty good read!Glad to hear it. You're certainly in the right place for XL info, I hope everything works out for ya.

Could my dad have been wrong when he said "If it's not broke, don't fix it"?

It does happen with Jap bikes, too! I think it's mostly a 'guy thing'. I've pretty much done the same thing on every car, bike, and turck I've owned.

My bagger is a Honda VTX 1800 Retro which I started piddeling with as soon as I got it; Baron BAK a/c, Dynajet PCIII FI controller, de-cored and rechambered mufflers with power baffles, etc. It was pretty good stock... but a little tweaking does wonders for our bikes and egos!

The reason was simple, when I thought of my first Harley there where three things I wanted. I wanted it black, with forward controls to stretch out my legs(rode sport bikes for 7 years and dont want to be cramped up anymore), and it had to sound good(loud and lots of base). From the factory I got the first two easy enough, but they just dont sound good until you uncork that beautiful symphony of a V-Twin by taking off those restrictive mufflers. Once you put on your new pipes, (and adjust the carb and A/C) to fit those pipes, hello to one of the best sounds I can think of-potatoe-potatoe-potatoe!!!!!

you know why they stopped making the VW bug for america way back. cuzz it is almost impossible to pass the smog laws with a air cooled engine.
be thankful HD can still build and sell our bikes. do the stage 1 and enjoye the ride. just like the old days but much better. no timing, drive belt or valve adj .what could be better. it never botherd me to do the stuff myself to make my bike run great. thank you motor company.

H-D seems to be the only bike out there, that comes from the factory in an unfinished state. The 883 needs to be a 1200. The 1200 needs to be rejetted, re-piped, re-breathed.

I hate to bring old threads from the grave, but unfortunately that is mis-information. From my experience Harley owners tend to complain a lot more, while metric owners tend to praise their bikes even when they have problems. Do these bikes have some problems? Absoultely, but so has every vehicle I have ever owned and toss into the list all the Honda's, Toyota's, and other japanese products I have owned.

As for shocks, even metric cruisers benefit greatly from progressive shocks. Put progressives on a metric bike and you will notice a great difference in handling as well. As for an unfinished state just look toward a suzuki. Just so you don't think I'm blowing smoke up your butt here is a link for reviews on a suzuki bike.

http://motorcycles.about.com/library/userreviews/ucrevbikes295.htm

Here are some excerpts:

Braking distance is a little long because the stock rear tire slides easily and the front brake is a little weak.

The engine backfires some at higher revs due to a lean factory setting.

On the highway around 70 mph it doesn't exactly feel planted. Crosswinds make it wobble.

But, during the break-in period, none of these things were noticeable. Ride it easy and it works great. Fortunately, all this is fixable. I rejetted the carb and eliminated the backfire. Got better shocks and it rides and corners great now and it's steadier on the highway. Got stickier tires, better brake pads and a braided steel brake liner. Much better bike now.

Like others, I've had some back-firing problems and though I've been told the bike can be "un-leaned" a bit,

It backfires every time I decelerate. Very annoying. My bike has 50 miles on it, and I can't enjoy it, because it sounds like a piece of junk.

So far it has met the mail. Not for the interstate ... or long hauls. No mechanical problems ... though the EPA has this bike leaned out a ton.

It continually backfired, valves were tapping at less than 1500 miles.

Light bike was blown all over the place. Just traded valve tapping, back firing bike in on Yamaha V-Star 1100 Silverado.

And for the customize revolution. It is your choice. Metric guys are starting to suffer from it more and more as more accessories become available for their ride. I was 100% satisfied with my bike until I saw an accessory catalog. It actually came with much better parts than the metric competition IMO. Nobody says you have to do anything. However, most like to add aftermarket parts to their bike.

Bottom line, you buy something, anything, it should work. Period. You shouldn't have to replace anything on it to make it perform as advertised.

Your argument is built on a flawed foundation -- that the bikes do not perform as advertised. If I wasn't handed a parts catalog on day 1 and never visited an XL forum, I'd be as happy with my bike now as the day I bought it. That's the beauty of the HD approach -- they sell fully functional, classically designed, reliable machines that can run forever as they were sold. But, by offering a dizzying amount of after-sales accessories and customizations, they can hook the buyers into an endless cash stream of parts and service. It's a lot of fun for the weekend wrenchers to always have a work-in-progress. Maybe you're uncomfortable with that aspect of ownership and prefer an out-of-the-box ultimate machine that is done on Day 1. Different strokes, I'd say.

Listen guys, too much is being made of Harley "being the only manfacturer whose bike needs work out of the factory." That simply isn't the case. My Yamaha Roadstar is a perfect example. That 1600 motor ran like crap until I put on Vance & Hines Longshots, a Baron's air filter and rejeted the carb. Then it ran. My experience was not in any way unique. Either all of the manufacturers are burdened by "EPA, CA regs, etc." or none are. I just don't believe any of the bikes, metric or Harley, are set up for optimal performance out of the door.

Surley some of you have seen other bikes that needed the same treatment?

I did the mufflers first to give it the sound I expected. I did the AC later to add balance and performance.

Performance-wise, I had absolutely no problems with my stock 1200 C. The main reason I did the Stage 1 was for better sounding pipes, since the stock pipes were so quiet. Louder pipes give me inspiration.

'Right out of the can' my VTX1800 had gobs of power and torque, but it never seemed 'right'. After installing a PCIII (programmable FI controller) and hooking it up to a dyno to program the A/F, the bike finally felt like what Honda advertised it to be.

The tuner I used told me that quite a large percentage of bikes are way too lean from the factory, (EPA, mileage, etc.), and since the 1800 didn't have carbs, the PCIII was the only way to get it right.

With the PCIII being over $300.00, and another $175.00+ for dyno time, it kinda makes the $70.00 or so for a jet kit seem insignificant?!!

Later, when I modified the exhaust and added a BAK, you guessed it... another trip to the dyno!!

I think I'll leave it alone (for awhile)!

Performance-wise, I had absolutely no problems with my stock 1200 C. The main reason I did the Stage 1 was for better sounding pipes, since the stock pipes were so quiet. Louder pipes give me inspiration.


:iagree :iagree

Wabiker,

Question *Why did I pay Taxes*... Cuz I got cut off by a Buick LeSabre which almost put me in a ditch and the stock 883 was to gutless to catch it on the I-5, yet fast enough to get a freaking ticket.
Was on the I-5 down to Mexico and back last weekend. Have you used that bombsight much? Could have used it at the border crossing.

My 02 883 Custom ran great, completely stock, it is my first motorcycle, and I am very satisfied with the power and love the mileage. I bought a set of used SEII slip on mufflers, for $60! the guy used to have a sportster, had them on for 3 weeks and then got drag pipes, so they sat in his basement, and he has a fatboy now, so he just wanted to get rid of them. and just put them on, I love the sound. My bike is lean now, so I am taking it in to get it rejetted and then they are also adding the SE air cleaner, I can't wait to ride it when it is rejetted, I have the "mod bug" on whatever I own, cars, my Chev Tahoe, guns, and now the motorcycle. I almost have the accessories book from HD memorized I think from looking at it, it is just so much fun to have something to tinker with, relaxing and rewarding when I do stuff on it myself.

I haven't read any of the other posts because it asked for a personal opinion.

My reason is: I just wanted to get my ride to the best performance I could get
and not step over the line into Hi-Perf territory. I am very happy with the results
and it suits my riding habits.............Plenty of Go-Power for me.

http://motorcycles.about.com/library/userreviews/ucrevbikes295.htm

Here are some excerpts:


To be honest I really can't see how anybody could consider a comparison of the initial quality of an entry-level, $4000, single cylinder Suzuki 650 to a Harley Davidson fair.

I don't disagree with your overall point, but your choice of model for comparison seems a bit loaded.

To answer the question the threadstarter asked, I paid taxes so it'd sound like a Harley, period.

My neighbor bought an R1 a couple years ago, brand spankin
new he was tearing crap off it and modding stuff, so I don't
think the bug only bites HD owners.

Absolutely correct, Xena! Most of my buddies own sportbikes. In fact, I moderate a local forum on which most of the riders own sportbikes. If you think that $500 is expensive for an exhaust system, you should take a look at how much a full system costs for a new gixxer (Suzuki GSX-R) or Yamaha R1. Some of those guys will shell out well over $1000 for their exhaust. The most expensive ones that I have seen are full titanium with a carbon fiber muffler at around $2200.

Most of the sportbikers buy some form of aftermarket exhaust and a Power Commander (EFI ECU) as soon as they get a new bike. Many will buy an aftermarket seat. Some go for racing plastics, which will easily break the $1000 barrier. Then, of course, they need premium tires, like Michelin Pilot Powers. Can't forget the chain conversions, either... Some riders want to go from their stock 525/530 chains to a 520, just to save a teeny bit of rolling resistance. Even without a change in the size of the chain, quite a few of them change their sprockets, which then requires a "speedo healer." Can't forget the Ohlins suspension... the list goes on.

Why did I buy my Harley? I wanted a decent mid-saddle motorcycle, with a large selection of aftermarket performance parts.

I bought a brand new Suzuki SV650 last May, within 1 month of ownership I had installed a TRE mod, removed the fender and fabricated a new license plate bracket, replaced the brake/taillight with a combo brake/taillight/turn signal, removed the rear turn signals, installed a slip on exhaust($500 and I performed the surgery). If I wasn't trading it in tomorrow for an '06 XL 1200C:banana I would be installing a new seat, gauges, and who knows what else. I am in agreement that the "jap" vs. "american" discussion is bogus, it is completely on the owner as to what needs to be done. I haven't even ridden my new Sportster yet and can tell you that I have several mods in store for it at some point in time, the first of which will be pipes.:clap

Matt

Listen guys, too much is being made of Harley "being the only manfacturer whose bike needs work out of the factory." That simply isn't the case. My Yamaha Roadstar is a perfect example. That 1600 motor ran like crap until I put on Vance & Hines Longshots, a Baron's air filter and rejeted the carb. Then it ran. My experience was not in any way unique. Either all of the manufacturers are burdened by "EPA, CA regs, etc." or none are. I just don't believe any of the bikes, metric or Harley, are set up for optimal performance out of the door.

Surley some of you have seen other bikes that needed the same treatment?

I disagree..... Now, considering you refered to the Yamaha Roadstar we can start there. In June of 2004 I purchased my 1200R. In October of 04 we got a pearl white Yamaha Roadstar. Since that time, we have had zero problems with the stock Roadstar and now lets talk about the Harley. From day one the bike would spit back through the carb. Harley says let me fix it so they come out with a flash download that actually made it worse and the bike began to stall at times too. At around 5,000 miles the Harley broke its grip switch for the brake lamp; at 7,000 miles the carb diaphram developed a pinhole in it causing major power loss; from day one the Harley would bottom out in the rear when it was 100 pounds light to the GVWR; and they won't fix it because it's normal. Now, lets move on to the Harley customer service program. Harley can't even bother to offer a 1-800 number to its customers because they would be swamped with calls costing them money. If you listen to those folks they build the perfect bike and god help you if you touch that bike while it is within warranty because it won't be warrantied if you do. Don't get me wrong, I love my Sporty and while I have had to put $3,000USD into the bike to correct issues Harley couldn't fix and add the things I wanted, the Roadstar and the Yamaha support system have been miles beyond the Harley program. We currently own 6 Yamaha bikes, 1 Harley, 1 Honda and 1 Polaris. The Harley is the only one I have had to change from box stock to get a satisfactory ride and performance level. Hell, the Roadstar makes the Harley Softail seem like an out dated tank and its ride is far beyond that of the softail. I will continue to buy Yamaha and other UJM machines. The 04 Sporty is my first new American machine and it's a great ride but the hassles I have gone through with Harley to make it even close to the term right are crazy and totally uncalled for....... I haven't had to do a thing to my UJM machines and love them all just as they came right out of the box.......

Kentucky, you sound like someone who has made a lot of assumptions.

While many will agree that the suspension on our Sportsters is not adequate for their riding style, it is very similar to that found on import cruisers, such as your Roadstar. If the suspension was bottoming, you should have either taken it back to the dealer to set the pre-load cam, or grabbed a spanner wrench to do it yourself. The fact that you were bottoming that suspension tells me that your preload wasn't set high enough; that is an oversight on the behalf of someone in delivery of your bike. I weigh in at 250 pounds, and beat the living snot out of a new Sportster Custom, last week. With the cam set to the second highest position, I don't think I bottomed it once.

The whole claim about warranties getting voided is a load of crap. It is mis-information that is getting perpetuated by dealerships and mis-informed people, such as yourself. Owners of Harley-Davidson motorcycles are just like any other consumers, and as such are covered by the "Magnussen-Moss Warranty Act." My motorcycle is undergoing authorized warranty work; it is currently in the shop, along with its upgraded cams, ignition, exhaust, intake, and carburetor. I chose to make those modifications, performed all work myself, and yet, have retained my warranty. The dealerships are simply franchises, of which most are catering to the RUBs.

As for the other problems you mentioned, they certainly are peculiar, and not normal. The Keihin CV carburetor installed on the Sportster generally doesn't develop holes in it diaphragm, unless someone is diddling in its top-end. Oh, and its quite common for the front brake-lever switch to break, when a cardboard shim is not used during disassembly; although, it may have just been defective. So, if someone worked on either of those items for you, I would ask them if they knew how those items could have broken.

BTW, Harley-Davidson Motor Company's customer service number is (414) 343-4056. Let me remind you that you are a customer to the franchises; however, you are but a consumer to the motor company.

I have 1 year and over 15,000 miles on my 1200C - engine/AC/exhaust all stock.

Runs perfectly. (until I typed that statement, I bet.)

I've added bags, windshield because I needed them.
Changed grips and footpegs because I wanted them.

Kentucky, you sound like someone who has made a lot of assumptions.

While many will agree that the suspension on our Sportsters is not adequate for their riding style, it is very similar to that found on import cruisers, such as your Roadstar. If the suspension was bottoming, you should have either taken it back to the dealer to set the pre-load cam, or grabbed a spanner wrench to do it yourself. The fact that you were bottoming that suspension tells me that your preload wasn't set high enough; that is an oversight on the behalf of someone in delivery of your bike. I weigh in at 250 pounds, and beat the living snot out of a new Sportster Custom, last week. With the cam set to the second highest position, I don't think I bottomed it once.

The whole claim about warranties getting voided is a load of crap. It is mis-information that is getting perpetuated by dealerships and mis-informed people, such as yourself. Owners of Harley-Davidson motorcycles are just like any other consumers, and as such are covered by the "Magnussen-Moss Warranty Act." My motorcycle is undergoing authorized warranty work; it is currently in the shop, along with its upgraded cams, ignition, exhaust, intake, and carburetor. I chose to make those modifications, performed all work myself, and yet, have retained my warranty. The dealerships are simply franchises, of which most are catering to the RUBs.

As for the other problems you mentioned, they certainly are peculiar, and not normal. The Keihin CV carburetor installed on the Sportster generally doesn't develop holes in it diaphragm, unless someone is diddling in its top-end. Oh, and its quite common for the front brake-lever switch to break, when a cardboard shim is not used during disassembly; although, it may have just been defective. So, if someone worked on either of those items for you, I would ask them if they knew how those items could have broken.

BTW, Harley-Davidson Motor Company's customer service number is (414) 343-4056. Let me remind you that you are a customer to the franchises; however, you are but a consumer to the motor company.

Again, I disagree. Having spent a great deal of time with a ride partner who works for a Harley dealer and rides an 05 1200C I get to here about all the neat things that do go on. When my perfect carb developed an unperfect hole in the diaphram I found out it wasn't that uncommon as the service department had replace them from time to time on new bikes that had yet to be sold. The spit back from that same perfect carb shouldn't occur either and when it happen in a turn and you need the throttle things get real interesting; how many complaints have I read about the spit back. The brake switch is another hot item that seems to go out with out having changed or disassembled anything as was my case on both counts. The suspension bottoms out when 2 up on the Sporty because the spring rate is wrong and will not support the GVWR of 1001 pounds; funny how the roadstar will carry the same two people without touching a thing at it has never bottomed out. At 900 pounds with the shocks all the way up on the Sporty the suspension shouldn't bottom out going over minor pumps at slow speeds or entering a driveway; this is why I now have the piggyback shock from the S model and there are no problems. Now to the voided warranties. It's not a load of crap as you say and the warranties are not being voided as you say. If you buy something from the P&A catalog and it is installed by you or another party that is not an authorized Harley service center you better pray nothing associated with that install breaks whether you followed the directions correctly or not. If it does break it will not be covered by the warranty; unless you know somebody that will fudge the claim. This issue has nothing to do with the Magnussen-Moss Warranty Act and everything to do with the term "tampering." Now to the customer service number, you're right here however, please note the 414 area code. Funny how all the UJM folks care enough about the consumer to offer a 1-800 number.

No manufacturer builds a perfect bike. I will however say the UJM product is getting closer to it every year. In doing so, the UJM manufacturer is beating Harley at their own game by offering a quality product at a reasonable price hence there is little need to pay taxes to make it right.

So tell us why you own a Harley?

Cuz everyone said I needed to, but would do it again cuz i loved the results from the stage 1 and pipes , other then the addition of a back rest i havent changed anything else. do plan on putting a new seat on so passengers quit having numb asses in 50 miles and wanting to stop.

In that case, I'm sorry to read of your troubles, Kentucky. You've given us a very well formed rebuttle, which draws my respect. My suspicion is that most of us on the forum enjoy our Sportsters; that, I hope you do, even amidst its problems.

Last note on warranty claims is that maintenance is allowed, even upgrades, provided that the work is done correctly. The current authorization for warranty coverage, on my bike, is for rocker box leaks. Yes, the dealership tried to deny my claim, as the boxes have been off the vehicle for the cam-set upgrade; that is an upgrade that I performed myself. On my word that the work had been performed correctly, along with my due diligence in replacing gaskets as attempt to correct the leaks, the dealership called the motor company. Low and behold, the work was given warranty authorization, and the motor company has sent pre-release gaskets.

As with anything else, your results may vary. Good luck! Take care. :)

Isnt a Road Star considered a Touring bike?... just curious.

Gotta put my 2 cents in regarding this whole problem that HD's need modding from day one. I've only had my 2004 883 for a few weeks now and apart from a custom number plate holder (chrome of course) nothing has been done to the bike. Nothing has gone wrong so far and the dealers could'nt be more helpful. I'd love to spend the cash and get stage 1 but it will have to wait until next year. This won't make my bike any less fun just not so loud.

Leaving the chrome add on's aside, why do people feel the bike NEED to be upgraded performance wise? I know I'm playing devil's advocate now but really do HD's really NEED preformance mods? I want stage 1, I don't need it; well I do for the street cred but I think you know what I mean.

I must admit that I was a little bit disappointed by the way my bike ran when I first got it. I took forever to get warm, and I had lots of carb farts.
Other than that it ran pretty good. Then I discovered that the dimwit dealer had put on a SE airkit without rejetting. So, I basically had a quite well flowing aircleaner and 42/160 (standard HDI jetting) jetting on a 1200.
I'm sure the bike would have ran just fine with a stock aircleaner.
After doing the usual 45/185,shims and 3 turns and cycle shacks it runs like a scalded dog.
Well, the only thing that I don't understand is why the moco puts the POS suspension on the Roadster. I mean, they already had the great suspension from the 1200Sport model available right? I would gladly have paid 500$ more for that.

I bought my 883C about a month ago and now have 2000 miles on it. Prior to taking delivery I had the dealer add the stage one set up. I did this to ensure that I would get all of the performance available out of the engine. My primary concern was having enough power on the highway for trips. Don't know what it would have performed like stock, but as set up it does the job, and is actually relatively quick. Certainly enough performance to satisfy the fun factor.

I just could not take the stock mufflers on my 06 883C and while the standard setup is fine for some. I needed the feel, sound, responsiveness and performance it provides. Without Stage 1 the bike sounds & feels too close to that of metric bikes. Plus it's really not that much to pay for performance. My 1K Service, Cycle Shack Slipons, Screamin Eagle high flow, rejet & shimmy only ran me $648.00 bucks.

Now I can't get this S--- Eating Grin off of my face.
LakeShore Harley Rock:D
Libertyville IL

Mack

I just could not take the stock mufflers on my 06 883C and while the standard setup is fine for some. I needed the feel, sound, responsiveness and performance it provides. Without Stage 1 the bike sounds & feels too close to that of metric bikes. Plus it's really not that much to pay for performance. My 1K Service, Cycle Shack Slipons, Screamin Eagle high flow, rejet & shimmy only ran me $648.00 bucks.

Now I can't get this S--- Eating Grin off of my face.
LakeShore Harley Rock:D
Libertyville IL

Mack
I see that's your first post, welcome to the Forum! How about going over to the 'Introduce Yourself' (http://xlforum.net/vbportal/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=24) forum and telling us more about yourself?

I have yet to do Stage one, even after 3k miles on my 04 1200R. I am concerned with altering my carb for the reasons of gas mileage. As I have been reading through many posts, you can drop about 10mpg. Is that what people are finding? I like going on the "take it easy" weekly HOG rides and getting 67 mpg. Its just fun to punch the numbers. But I have been wanting some Cycle Shacks to make it a bit louder since I cant hear my exhaust when Im behind my friends straight pipes. And I think my engine is louder than my exhaust tapping away. But on the usual I get about 53 mpg normal driving and I kind of dig that. So I think I will be ordering just the pipes for now. But thats how my modified mustang started, mufflers...before I ordered the supercharger. And that TrakTek a/c looks very cool.

My freind bought a new Duc Monster in '04. It was way lean and choked. We did a Power Commander, K&N and some Ferraci slip ons. Completely different bike. If the engineers had their way your new bike would beessentially a stage one when you got it. It used to be that way up 'til about 1980.

But the Gubmint will protect us from all the forces of evil. So we have choked up intake and exhausts on otherwise very nice modern bikes. And no more carbs now. There will be mechanics ten years from now who have absolutely no idea what a carb even looks like. Weird.

My bike ran perfectly when I picked it up new. I wanted louder pipes and a 15% hp performance gain. I got it.

I pay taxes 'cause I don't wanna go to jail.

It's a big game of mines better or better now.
It's part of the culture most of us enjoy (customizing), even if alot of us end up with similar bikes.
It's fairly easy to feel like we made our bikes our own.
Hot bikes, hot rods, hot chicks!
Sometimes you see something someone else did and you think "Thats' kinda cool", and you want something like it but, not exactly.
There are lemons in all kinds of vehicle lines.
It feels good when you get something done and it improves your ride.
Besides, you're only cool if you do it.....(joking of course)
UJJ:banawala

For me? Sound, mostly.

...Mine wasnt broke so I had an overpowering urge to fix it.

Well... I took an excellent brand new H-D bike and made it run better, look better, and sound better than it did before the different pipes & AC were installed...

I didn't have to do a Stage I... I wanted to :)

My bike is still bone stock and I'm not in a hurry to pay taxes. I don't need the extra power and the bike runs great. 1500 miles and no issues except the occasional carb fart when the bike's not warmed up all the way. I'll get around to doing a stage 1 at some point when I think I need a little extra punch.

I find it a bit amusing that some folks think HD ought to be more like the Japanese when all the Jap manufacturers, except maybe Honda, are still trying to be more like the MoCo. The best selling metric cruisers are the ones that look most like Harley's. Kawisaki and Yamaha are moving towards belt drives. Yamaha and Suzuki gave their cruisers seperate badges to make them sound more American. Suzuki has a sudden need to list their "metric" bikes by cubic inches. And they all are pushing accesories and do-dads in a very Harleyish way (especially Yamaha). So what's the MoCo supposed to do? Start building bikes even bigger than a Vulcan 2000? As for Victory, you gotta love the fact that they weren't selling any bikes until they consulted with Arlen Ness, arguably the best known Harley customiser in the world. The last couple of years, they have had considerable success out-Harleying Harley - and kudos to them. But I don't think there's any confusion about who's trying to catch up to who.

I did it because the stock pipes were way too quiet. I like 'em real loud. Loud enough so the cagers can hear them over the radio and that cell phone conversation they're having.

they sell fully functional, classically designed, reliable machines that can run forever as they were sold. But, by offering a dizzying amount of after-sales accessories and customizations, they can hook the buyers into an endless cash stream of parts and service.

An excellent marketing strategy!

i personally believe they sell them"plain"to keep costs down. people are always complaining about the seat,suspension,etc.etc. it would be more expensive than what they already are. if they had a mustang, lapera seat.or, progressive shocks it would cost more. hope that came out right ..im really tired....just a thoght...bud (btw; i quite happily :) rode my stock 883 standard for 3 years before i changed it)

I like 'em real loud. Loud enough so the cagers can hear them over the radio and that cell phone conversation they're having.

This is the biggest wives tale in the current world of motorcycling and it is so far from ther truth it isn't even funny. The cager can't here you with their window open and no stereo or cell phone. The reason for this is sound deployment. The exhaust from the bike is all going out the back so anyone in front of you is not likely to hear your bike over the standard 85dbA sound levels associated with normal street traffic. The cager will only hear you when you are very close if not right along side. They are actually more likely to see you than hear you as the sound emitted by the bike exhaust is very directional...

I paid taxes because the bike was simply a basic unit and I want it to look different. Sporties all look the same at the dealer but that's where it ends..