Day one.

I am currently land speed racing in the 750cc APS/PG class. I will be racing my BMW powered record holder for the last time at Speed Week in August. My current top speed was 127.35 at Maxton in June and I'm shooting for 130-140 at Bonneville. I think that will be the best I can do with the old BMW R75 motor and I have decided to start a new build based on an XB9 motor.

Here are some of the parts I have gathered so far...

http://www.frsengineering.com/pp1.jpg

The rear swingarm is off of a late model GSXR, rear shock CBR900 and front wheel and forks from a 2004 R6.

The new engine just came in...

http://www.frsengineering.com/pp7.jpg

http://www.frsengineering.com/pp8.jpg

Swingarm is mounted in the frame jig. The frame jig still needs some modifications to fit the LSR frame.

http://www.frsengineering.com/pp6.jpg

Bender and tube notcher are ready for the 1" DOM tubing that will be used for the frame.

http://www.frsengineering.com/pp5.jpg

http://www.frsengineering.com/pp4.jpg

Here are pics of my current LSR racer going thru tear-down and cleaning/inspection prior to next month's racing...

http://www.frsengineering.com/mx122.jpg

http://www.frsengineering.com/mx123.jpg

very cool. keep up the pix

Cool !!
Keep it coming Dude !!

Please tell me you live down the street from me...:wonderlan :wonderlan :wonderlan

This is pretty cool, thanks for sharing.

:banapart Keep us updated, looks like it's going to rock!

Thanks for the comments guys. I will start some serious building when I get back from Bonneville. Pics will be posted as the build progresses.

Randy ... Looking good ... when you get a chance I want to talk regarding you doing some mods to a '94 sportster frame I picked for the next land speed project bike.
Joe.

Nice! Very impressive.

Thanks guys. Joe, I believe I still have your number, I will call you during the week.

Randy

on the new Buell LSR build.
Bonneville racing is over for me this year I have been gathering parts from eBay and wherever else I can find them. I still want to stay in the 750cc pushrod class, so I figured a way to get to 748cc with a 3.125 stroke by a 3.050 bore. About as close as a square motor as I can get. I've had to mix and match existing parts and have decided to build a 750cc, fuel injected, turbocharged motor.

here's a bench full of parts waiting to be sent to NRHS...

http://www.frsengineering.com/pp9.jpg


I will start with the stock Buell ECM, develop a baseline map using ECM Spy and then probably add a stand alone Engine Management Controller. This way I can coordinate fuel, boost and ignition from one unit.

http://www.frsengineering.com/pp10.jpg

After I have gotten the engine together and running, I will add a Garrett GT15 turbo with an adjustable boost controller...

http://www.frsengineering.com/gt15.jpg

Sounds like you are going to have fun. Is the piston size going to be smaller or are you shortening the stroke on the XB engine. I have no idea what the stroke is and that is why I am asking? I Have an aerocharger in my garage that I will be putting on this winter. How much boost are you planning on using?

It is amazing how much the air head looks like an ironhead chamber. Wonder why harley did not use a similar piston to the bmw instead of the cheese wedge looking piston?

The stroke is stock XB9, pistons will be specially made, forged for turbo application. I will start with around 15lbs of boost and slowly take it as high as I can.

Hemi combustion chambers are pretty common in a lot of 2 valve motors. Valve size and lift are usually the determining factor in dome shape. BMW didn't make a stock piston with more than about 9.5 to 1 compression on the airheads with a stock cam lift of .266 in.

Randy/
If you are going to use the XB injectors, Dan (NRHS) can machine the injector venturi larger. He did one for my brother on his XB and it came out beautiful.
Joe

What size XB does your brother have? Is it NA or blown? Don't know if that would help me if it's blown...:dunno

Randy,

I am glad you have started this build! It has taking years of me secretly wishing you would come over the the v-twin side. Thanks for posting all of the updates while I was at Bonneville, it was fun brain storming with you trying to figure out how to go faster. Kinda reminds of all of the motorcycle conversations we used to have at break when work was fun before you retired .

This one is going to be cool guys, Randy is an excellent builder, I know he has taught me a lot.

Scott

Thanks Scott, with what you have learned building your Buell and my motor and fabrication skills, we can surely come up with a fast bike. Not to mention the skills of the other guys we both know here and in the racing community around the country...what did we do before the internet!!

Sorry work isn't fun any more, I enjoyed those last few years after you started working with me. Look at it this way...you only have 20 more years to retirement :yikes

Randy,
Tom's bike is an xb9 - 12:1 - cams - normally aspirated using the delphi injections system ... He will run in P/PP 1000 this spring in Maxton for sure / Bonneville? ... Joe

Considering my step back to 750cc's and my using a turbo with heads with smaller valves, I don't think I will benefit from the larger throttle body. If I can put this system together successfully, a future project will be re-installation of the original cylinders and heads for competition in the 1000cc class. Then, the enlargment may make sense. Looking forward to seeing you at Maxton next year,

Randy

When I first started this new LSR build, I wanted to do something more with the paint job than my current salt racer. Partial streamlining fairings provide a large canvas for creative graphics and paint. My favorite colors have always been silver and black on a motorcycle and the Charlie Toy fairing would look great in silver.
I picked up an old Gilera motorcycle for Kent Riches (Airtech) in Illinois and delivered it to him at Speed Week. He brought me this new set of Charlie Toy skins...

http://www.frsengineering.com/bn145.JPG

I decided to build this bike as a tribute to the crew of B-24 #549. My grandfather was the flight engineer on "Marty, The Rubble Maker", as it was called, when all were lost May 12th, 1944 off the coast of Orbetello, Italy.

http://www.frsengineering.com/wordcrew3.jpg

Sgt. Hatfield was in the 15th Air Force, 450th Bomb Group (Cottontails), 722nd squadron (Holy Joes).

http://www.frsengineering.com/15th.gif http://www.frsengineering.com/cottontails.jpg http://www.frsengineering.com/holyjoes.jpg

http://www.frsengineering.com/4836.jpg

will be painted silver with the squadron tail markings on the back and "The Rubble Maker" nose art on the front. It will have the group insignias and a list of crewmembers around the clear canopy.
Unfortunately, number 549 is already taken, but I have reserved 5491 for the bike number.

A friend that is a local artist will paint it for me... http://www.artinfinite.com/

My grandfather was stationed at Wendover when he met my grandmother in Salt Lake City. It will be nice to return to the place where the family was started with this tribute.

Looks nice...very nice

Can I help?

Sam

I appreciate the offer Sam, if there is something I think you can help me with, I will certainly ask. The electronics portion of this build is my forte. The people that got me into this "salt addiction" hold multiple "blown" records, so we have quite an experienced design and support group. I will be posting detailed build photos as we progress and I am always open to suggestion and ideas from anyone, so don't hesitate to speak up if you see me doing something that doesn't look right.
Thanks,
Randy

so don't hesitate to speak up if you see me doing something that doesn't look right.


Please while you are at these events wear long pants!! The sight of those white legs is damaging to the eyes........thank you.:laugh

Scott

Please while you are at these events wear long pants!! The sight of those white legs is damaging to the eyes........thank you.:laugh

Scott

hmmmm, who's got the whitest legs Cali Boy?

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r98/isiahstites/WOS%202008/100_3236.jpg

http://www.frsengineering.com/bn140.JPG

even Kent's dad has browner legs than you LMFAO :laugh

I knew you would come back with a picture.............the picture that you posted of your self with Kent and Randy is the one that made me post up about your legs................down right scary!!!:banadanc

LOL...wish you were there:p

Now you understand why I got in the truck to put on the britches.

Tooo many cameras.....

Sam

Now you understand why I got in the truck to put on the britches.

Tooo many cameras.....

Sam

You got something to hide Sam?

Just white legs that would shame the Salt.

Sam

Just white legs that would shame the Salt.

Sam


You and Randy should get together sounds like you guys have something else in common besides a turbo 750 v-twin build.

Scott

Now you understand why I got in the truck to put on the britches.

Tooo many cameras.....

Sam

LOL :laugh

You and Randy should get together sounds like you guys have something else in common besides a turbo 750 v-twin build.

Scott

I told you Cali Boy, if my legs were as white as yours...I'd wear long britches too:rolleyes:

All of the engine parts have come in. The heads and cylinders were prepared by NRHS. They did a great job...

http://www.frsengineering.com/pp11.jpg

http://www.frsengineering.com/pp12.jpg

http://www.frsengineering.com/pp13.jpg

Ported and milled with larger stainless valves, new guides, seals, springs and titanium retainers.

They bored two sets of cylinders form me and two sets of forged pistons were made for the turbo application...

http://www.frsengineering.com/pp14.jpg

http://www.frsengineering.com/pp16.jpg

I also ordered a set of S&S roller rockers and adjustable pushrods and pushrod tubes...

http://www.frsengineering.com/pp15.jpg

Randy,
Aren't those pistons just the cutest darn things you ever saw!! I was tempted to keep one and make it into a shift knob!

Make sure to clearance your rocker boxes to clear those big springs and the roller rockers.

Randy,
Aren't those pistons just the cutest darn things you ever saw!! I was tempted to keep one and make it into a shift knob!


LOL, if I ever burn one, I'll send it back to you for your shift knob!

Running a turbo you should say, "When I burn a piston". Not "if". \
Joe

Running a turbo you should say, "When I burn a piston". Not "if". \
Joe

lol
:banana

Running a turbo you should say, "When I burn a piston". Not "if". \
Joe

I was kinda thinking the same thing! LOL

Nice lookin heads there Randy.

Some years back I drag raced a Kawi Z1 laydown alcohol drag bike. Burned pistons, pistons with holes in them, collapsed pistons were the norm. Once I understood turbo lag, boost and ignition timing (read that as 4 motors) I actually had some trouble free races. Joe

That's the whole idea of running electronic fuel injection. I'm hoping to be able to manage fuel and ignition advance/retard according to boost pressure.
I have a 3bar map sensor for when I start running higher boost pressure. I don't think the stock FI has the capability of boost overide adjustment for ignition mapping, but I have another FI engine management system for use when I get to that point.
I had 2 piston sets made for the learning curve, but I have help from associates that have "been there, done that". I hoping to benefit from their experience.

Randy,
You have a good plan with the fuel injection. Detonation can be controlled somewhat with ignition retard available to react to boost rise. That should save some pistons. The system that I ran in the stone age was carbureated and the mixture was not adjustable. I did run an MSD that retarded spark but did not interact with boost. You will have the ability to do that. Your project is an interesting one ... Joe

Thanks Joe, I should be able to increase fuel pressure and pulse width with the fuel injection control while retarding timing, all controlled by boost pressure. These are all programmable parameters in most aftermarket engine management controllers. I tried to help a friend set up an electronic/mechanical combination boost controlled retard and fuel controller on an existing bike with limited success. I couldn't come up with a voltage regulator sensitive enough for his FI controller and his mechanical retard apparatus was a little too complicated for reliable use. I recommended starting over with a stand alone engine management system, but he was trying to make his stock stuff work.

Some of the stand alone systems like Motec and Megasquirt/Microsquirt will work well, it's just how much you want to spend!

This will take an electrical engineer to unravel. Fortunately, you are the right one for the task. I await the results. Your engine managements system will be complex for sure.

I was kinda thinking the same thing! LOL

Nice lookin heads there Randy.


Hey Larry, you working on anything new lately? I didn't see you at speed week this year.

Randy

Hey Randy. Yeah, I been workin on something. Sorting out a few kinks that I can't get into here, but, I'll be back. I plan on BUBS and Elmo next year. Maybe WOS. I can't let Scott have all the fun.

Are you gonna hang around for the BUB meet?

I should have an early Christmas as the last of my parts will be here by Thanksgiving.

Hey Randy. Yeah, I been workin on something. Sorting out a few kinks that I can't get into here, but, I'll be back. I plan on BUBS and Elmo next year. Maybe WOS. I can't let Scott have all the fun.

Are you gonna hang around for the BUB meet?

I should have an early Christmas as the last of my parts will be here by Thanksgiving.

Glad to hear things are working out for you Larry.

Scott

Larry,
Glad to hear you going to Bub's ... Now we have to get Randy and Scott to go ... Joe

Larry,
Glad to hear you going to Bub's ... Now we have to get Randy and Scott to go ... Joe

I think you guys are going to have to come to WOS...........and if I am as broke I am now this time next year I won't be going.

Scott

Larry,
Glad to hear you going to Bub's ... Now we have to get Randy and Scott to go ... Joe

That's the plan right now. I sure missed being there this year. :frownone

Scott, we could probably fit one more bike in the trailer. :banana

Larry:smoke

That's the plan right now. I sure missed being there this year. :frownone

Scott, we could probably fit one more bike in the trailer. :banana

Larry:smoke

That may work........:clap:banana:banadanc

See ya there!

Sam

See ya there!

Sam

Look forward to it Sam, maybe we can get a group rate. :laugh:laugh

I decided today to go to WOS in 2009. With all of the hassle getting a room at Speed Week and the outrageous prices, I think I'll try The USFRA event because it's still SCTA.

I decided to run the engine with high compression pistons and no turbo first. This will give me more time to get comfortable with the fuel and ignition mapping before I start adding boost from the turbo. The new pistons were designed and ordered and the heads were sent out for "dual plug machining".
I just got the heads back and they were done by NRHS very nicely...

http://www.frsengineering.com/pp17.jpg

I have been watching eBay for the bits and pieces for the turbo system. I have decided on the turbo I want to use, but it is backordered from Garrett. Not a problem since I don't need it to get the engine running. I did find a nice intercooler that should fit the bike well...

http://www.frsengineering.com/pp18.jpg

http://www.frsengineering.com/pp19.jpg

Just curious, where are you getting the power for your fuel pump(does it go live with ignition or do you plumb it to oil pressure sensor or something so it cuts off if something happens)? Second question, how exactly does the fuel pressure regulator work, does the vacuum on the manifold keep it above the boost pressure.

At this time I'm using the stock Buell fuel pump. When I have the motor running, I will log fuel pressure. These readings along with the other data logged (A/F, TPS, RPM, MAP, EGT, CHT, etc) will determine required fuel pressure, injector timing and ignition timing. If another type of fuel pump and a pressure regulator are required, it will be a result of the aforementioned data.
The stock fuel pump is currently controlled by the stock engine kill switch and the added "deadman" switch. This is currently powered by the main engine battery. A second battery will be added to power the data logging system and the stand alone turbo oiling system with a time delay off circuit.

Chop,
Where are you going to mount the intercooler?

Sam
#6061 A/PBx, #6062 APS/PBx

Chop,
Where are you going to mount the intercooler?

Most likely low and in the front of the motor Sam. I'm just getting ready to start building the frame, so everything is conceptual right now.

I'm new to the turbo side of racing, so I have to rely on input from friends and professionals when it comes to the design of my system. There are a myriad of configurations out there for just HD systems alone.
I plan on using a turbo configuration similar to the set-up used by RB in their pro gas set-up. It's simple and straightforward set-up, along with their proven history of design and testing, makes it the top candidate for my obvious flattery by imitation...

http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/turbo/HDProGasl.jpg

on a much smaller scale, of course:geek

Ahhh, building own frame.
Makes things so much easier. ;)
I did the plumbing first, then stretched the frame.

How much cubic foot is that intercooler?

Sam

Just curious, how much noise would come fromt he exhaust on that pic. Does the turbo somehow muffle the sound?

Sam, the core size is 9"X7.5"X4".
Most motors with turbos are surprisingly quiet. The turbine vanes muffle the sound very effectively. Sam could probably answer that one for you better than me.

Turbo's with short pipes off the exhaust scroll have a growl but it is low pitched. If you use a long pipe they get much quieter. I used both on the drag bike. Shorter pipe allowed it spool up quicker. Important in drag racing but not much of a consideration in land speed. Either way it is quieter then straight pipes.
Joe

The frame building jig is complete and the DOM tubing should be here this week. All of the various items have been laser aligned with a magnetic alignment tool see on the front upright. The frame construction should be pretty quick. What will take the most time will be the motor mounts, jackshaft mounts and various turbo and intercooler brackets....

http://www.frsengineering.com/pp20.jpg

Very nice and Very cool!