Review and Comparison of my XR1200

[Benny K]

Well,

I promised you some pics and a write up on my driving experience with the XR1200. I will compare it to the XL883R I had too. Please excuse my english, I'm from switzerland ;)

About myself:
26 years old (or young haha)..
1.83m (6 feet I think) tall..
I riding bikes since I'm 18 years old. But I wasnt the hardcore biker that went on longer tours..maybe now with the XR.
former bikes: 1979 Honda CB250N (starter bike), 1976 Honda CB750 four, 2006 Sportster 883R.


I just came back yesterday from my trip to my parents wich is about 520kms (340mls) one way. Includes a mountain pass, curvy roads along rivers, boring motorway and cities. bike has now 1300km (800mls) on it.

Looks
You all know the pics. I wanted a sportier bike than my 883R was but I did not like the feel of a Buell (to small and modern). I like the classic aircooled roadster design with modern elements. I'm glad harley built this thing.

Build Quality
Is ok for me but could be better (for the price of the bike). Some bolts look like they come off a tractor. Electrical cable routing below the handlebars is a bit untidy.
But I have no problem with that. This bike is built to drive hehe.
Only thing I'm somewhat shocked about is the quality of the exhaust mufflers. They do already rust where the bracket is welded onto it. Same on the black end. Water gathers there and has no way to get away. The weld seams on the mufflers are really ugly.

The left footpeg rattled loose once. The shift mechanism is very wobbly. the front end where you shift really shakes around when drivind.

Paint is good. Same on the engine finish. Basically the same as on other sportsters.
The bike looks and feels very solid apart from the shift mechanism.

Engine

Lots of low end torque :) I already went to the limiter when I was driving home lol...believe me...it moves fast. A triumph tiger wanted to overpass me when I was already passing a truck...well he gave up after I decided to turn the throttle a bit more and not to shift at 5000rpm haha...
Intake sound is very nice..altough the exhaust is a bit to silent compared to it. Below 2000rpm the engine feels very uncomfortable and noisy. I always keep it at 2000rpm min. When driving around normally, 2000-4000rpm's really do it. theres enough torque. At about 120km/h (75mph) the whole bike is vibrating. It's somehow uncomfy at the feet...
Engine used about 1 litre of oil so far...but it gets less the more miles I put on it...

Much more power than a 883R with tax paid. And a bit more vibrations than a 883R.

Suspension

I really cannot compare to a sports bike because I've never ridden one.
In my opinion the brakes are overrated...certainly they are wayway better than the ones on the 883R but the brakes on the Yamaha XJR1300 I rented felt a bit better to dose. They are good brakes but I think they are just normal for a 2008 bike with that power.
Suspension itself is a bit harsh like a sports car :) good for me. Bad on crappy roads...I was lifted off the seat more then once. I have the rear shocks on the softest setting.
883R was more comfortable on bad roads...but less sporty with all that softness lol


On my way home I rode for about 6,5h and I think that is the maximum you can do on one day with that bike. Mainly because of the seat. I began to really feel my butt lol...
But I had no problems with my hands or back.
Seating position is good even for a guy like me...I have more "leg room" than on the 883R. However I had to stop sometimes to eat and drink and stretch my legs.

Rearview mirrors are the same as on the 883R. At highway speeds they become useless cause they are vibrating so much :)

feel free to ask me whatever you want. I hope my blabla is useful or interesting to someone. I just wrote down what came to my mind...


http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a1/ampegsvt4/XR1200/DSC02085.jpg
you all know that

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a1/ampegsvt4/XR1200/DSC02086.jpg
and that. Notice that the front part of the case cover is slightly different in color than the rear part. It's much worse on the photo.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a1/ampegsvt4/XR1200/DSC02087.jpg
as well as that.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a1/ampegsvt4/XR1200/DSC02088.jpg
springloaded pegs

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a1/ampegsvt4/XR1200/DSC02089.jpg
water on exhaust after washing...very bad...

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a1/ampegsvt4/XR1200/DSC02092.jpg
oil cooler

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a1/ampegsvt4/XR1200/DSC02094.jpg
no lock...

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a1/ampegsvt4/XR1200/DSC02095.jpg
no lock too...and obviously not waterproof...

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a1/ampegsvt4/XR1200/DSC02090.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a1/ampegsvt4/XR1200/DSC02091.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a1/ampegsvt4/XR1200/DSC02093.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a1/ampegsvt4/XR1200/DSC02097.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a1/ampegsvt4/XR1200/DSC02096.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a1/ampegsvt4/XR1200/DSC02099.jpg
it looks a bit orange here...but it's really a deep red! very cool!

[Nick R.]

Thanks for the write-up. Did you notice a big (any) difference in the handling due to the new style front shocks?

[Moved On / My Own Choice]

AWESOME - thanks!

Kev

[Deimus]

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a1/ampegsvt4/XR1200/DSC02093.jpg

What are those two lines connecting the throttle body to the cam chest? A new breather?

Thanks for the report.

[Ralphthe3rd]

Thanks Benny, you answered -any and ALL questions that I may have wanted to ask...

[Ralphthe3rd]

...and they are going to the heads, to passages that surround the exhaust valves to improve cooling. They have nothing to do with the throttle body.http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a1/ampegsvt4/XR1200/DSC02093.jpg

What are those two lines connecting the throttle body to the cam chest? A new breather?

Thanks for the report.

[Deimus]

...and they are going to the heads, to passages that surround the exhaust valves to improve cooling. They have nothing to do with the throttle body.

Thanks. I knew someone would know what they are. :)

[CaptEvo]

Very detailed, great pics. Thanks.

[bjfoien]

Thank you Benny. Great pics and info.

[grindbastard]

Forgive me for sounding ignorant...but where is the intake and air cleaner?

[Moved On / My Own Choice]

Forgive me for sounding ignorant...but where is the intake and air cleaner?

the intake is the plastic hood scoop underneath the tank on the right side - the air cleaner is inside that housing.

Kev

[Benny K]

Thanks for the write-up. Did you notice a big (any) difference in the handling due to the new style front shocks?

they feel much more stable...but that's probably due to the increased diameter.


where is the intake and aircleaner?

you can see it in the second picture. Intake "hole" is right below the tank cover on the right side. You can see the air cleaner through it.
Don't know how it behaves in heavy rain. Probably gets wet a bit.

[Benny K]

you're right Kev :)

[biknut]

Very nice review and pictures. Good unbiased assessment.

[grindbastard]

the intake is the plastic hood scoop underneath the tank on the right side - the air cleaner is inside that housing.

Kev

Keh...how the hell did I miss hat?

Need.

More.

Coffee.

[Moved On / My Own Choice]

Keh...how the hell did I miss hat?

Need.

More.

Coffee.

Awe hell, I could see how one could miss it -

not ME - cause I've been staring at the bike for about 2 YEARS.

Then again, most of the shots I've seen were from the right side and I'd ASSumed that there were scoops on BOTH sides... I didn't realize it was only on the one side until I checked Benny's pics.

So HOW THE HELL COULD I MISS THAT :doh :laugh

[Benny K]

Kev
:smiliesig

hehe

I forgot
I get a clunky metallic noise sometimes when accelerating with a bit more load from under 2500rpm. Comes from the Primary cover. Maybe the Primary chain needs to be adjusted...?
Well its going to inspection in two weeks...

[Moved On / My Own Choice]

I forgot
I get a clunky metallic noise sometimes when accelerating with a bit more load from under 2500rpm. Comes from the Primary cover. Maybe the Primary chain needs to be adjusted...?
Well its going to inspection in two weeks...

Good possibility...

K

[Benny K]

Forgot another thing....

I was riding with my girlfriend as a passenger the other day. She said it's comfier to seat on than the 883R...
Actually I was surprised but she said the seat is just softer and therefore better for her...

anyone who knows the standard 883R seat knows that the passenger part is very small too...

[Ralphthe3rd]

I'd say the XR12 passenger pad is wider than that portion of an 883R, so the weight is more evenly distributed. For a small lady, I can see it might be an improvement. :)

Forgot another thing....

I was riding with my girlfriend as a passenger the other day. She said it's comfier to seat on than the 883R...
Actually I was surprised but she said the seat is just softer and therefore better for her...

anyone who knows the standard 883R seat knows that the passenger part is very small too...

[Benny K]

but 3h is maximum you can do...erm she can do...then it gets uncomfy...

discovered the first oil leak today.
Rocker cover of the rear cylinder is leaking a bit on the right side...only one spot...but leaking...wipe it away...it's there again after about 150miles....

[Ralphthe3rd]

Benny, when my '07 was brand new, it developed a rocker cover oil leak after the first 50 miles. It turns out, with the new style groove gaskets they use, that if any powder coating overspray is in the machined groove for the gasket, the thin (rubber band like) gasket can't seal against the rough surface, and eventually- oil seeps past and starts a slow leak. The fix on my bike(after a first repair of just a new gasket failed), was to remove the powdercoating in the groove, and then the gasket did it's job properly, with no leaks in the last 12,000miles.

but 3h is maximum you can do...erm she can do...then it gets uncomfy...

discovered the first oil leak today.
Rocker cover of the rear cylinder is leaking a bit on the right side...only one spot...but leaking...wipe it away...it's there again after about 150miles....

[Benny K]

thank you very much for that info! I will forward it to my dealer when the bike is going for the first inspection. Hell I could do it myself but for what do I have warranty :)

well I think the dealer will consider me as a smart-ass...lol

[Bozinski]

Suspension

I really cannot compare to a sports bike because I've never ridden one.
In my opinion the brakes are overrated...certainly they are wayway better than the ones on the 883R but the brakes on the Yamaha XJR1300 I rented felt a bit better to dose. They are good brakes but I think they are just normal for a 2008 bike with that power.
Suspension itself is a bit harsh like a sports car :) good for me. Bad on crappy roads...I was lifted off the seat more then once. I have the rear shocks on the softest setting.
883R was more comfortable on bad roads...but less sporty with all that softness lol

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a1/ampegsvt4/XR1200/DSC02097.jpg

I'm curious...what is the eye-to-eye length of the rear shocks? Would they perhaps fit on an 883R? They look a little longer in photos. What is the adjustability range...5-position? I was a little disappointed with my 883R's 3-position shocks...I am maxed out on preload and I still bottom out on rough roads more than I like, but I carry a lot of pounds...on me and with me.

I'm curious if the XR's part numbers are available for order in the US, even though the bikes aren't here yet.

[Benny K]

I would have to unbolt them to measure, as they are compressed already when the bike is standing. I'm almost sure they are longer...
yes, 5-position preload. I have it on the softest setting and the ride is pretty rough when I'm alone. Can't tell about the other settings cause you need a special tool to adjust the right side one...of course that tool is not supplied with the bike! grrr

[Ralphthe3rd]

I was actually meaning to ask an XR1200 owner the SAME Question :)
I'm curious...what is the eye-to-eye length of the rear shocks? Would they perhaps fit on an 883R? They look a little longer in photos. What is the adjustability range...5-position? I was a little disappointed with my 883R's 3-position shocks...I am maxed out on preload and I still bottom out on rough roads more than I like, but I carry a lot of pounds...on me and with me.

I'm curious if the XR's part numbers are available for order in the US, even though the bikes aren't here yet.

[blackxr]

I adjusted my preload using a plumbers grip for tightening compression joints. In order to do the exhaust side I removed the exhaust end cans, a simple job to do and took 10 mins in all. Take the top can off first by undoing the bolts joining it to the lower can, then undo the mounts for the bottom one. Both slide in and out easy.

Blooming waste of time though, the shocks IMO are undersprung and set up for riding on smooth racetrack surfaces. There was no measurable improvement in their performance from the original low preload to the max setting I put them on.

IMO (again) there is no way forward with the shocks and I will swap to Ohlins/Penske when I can also swap out the front fork internals as well.

Any one used Penske shocks before on any application and think they are as good as Ohlins ?? Would appreciate comments.

[Benny K]

yeah but unbolting the exhaust in order to set preload is time consuming...

I want to set preload when I go riding with a passenger. And put it back when I'm home.
And in my opinion thats the purpose of it. You do not change a lot of the dampening characteristics when changing spring preload. You would have to adjust the damper, not the spring. Changing spring preload is to react to more weight in first case...


I'd like to go with after market shocks as well...I just like the looks of them ;)
(but I have to wait...money...money)

[Rags]

I would have to unbolt them to measure, as they are compressed already when the bike is standing. I'm almost sure they are longer...
yes, 5-position preload. I have it on the softest setting and the ride is pretty rough when I'm alone. Can't tell about the other settings cause you need a special tool to adjust the right side one...of course that tool is not supplied with the bike! grrr

I believe they are 12".

Why don't you look at YSS gas shocks. They are more reasonable than "Works" and Ohlins. Compression & rebound damping.

There is a helpful knowledgable UK outfit that handles them. Google it.

[Ralphthe3rd]

I'm Positive a stock XR1200 has shocks longer than 12" ! I mean HELL, the stock shocks that come on an "R" (883/1200) are 13.25" !

I believe they are 12".

Why don't you look at YSS gas shocks. They are more reasonable than "Works" and Ohlins. Compression & rebound damping.

There is a helpful knowledgable UK outfit that handles them. Google it.

[Moved On / My Own Choice]

yeah but unbolting the exhaust in order to set preload is time consuming...

I want to set preload when I go riding with a passenger. And put it back when I'm home.
And in my opinion thats the purpose of it.

Absolutely - that would be a major negative... perhaps something with the adjuster on top would work better?

[Rags]

I'm Positive a stock XR1200 has shocks longer than 12" ! I mean HELL, the stock shocks that come on an "R" (883/1200) are 13.25" !

Then my recollection is wrong. I thought center to center 12".

[Midas]

Benny, nice write up.

Yep, the rear shocks are to stiff
Yep, the seat is uncomfortable

I find the motor pulls even stronger with the Supertrapps fitted and the cat removed. (just got a plug so as i can remove the actuator flap in the air box)

My only other complaint is it needs longer legs, so i'm gonna look into changing the gearing at either the engine sprocket or the gearbox pulley.
Other than that i love it...:D

[RUNHD]

yeah but unbolting the exhaust in order to set preload is time consuming...

What about fixing the rear shocks upside down to have the preload settings on the top and not behind the exhausts ?

[blackxr]

yeah but unbolting the exhaust in order to set preload is time consuming...

You do not change a lot of the dampening characteristics when changing spring preload. You would have to adjust the damper, not the spring. Changing spring preload is to react to more weight in first case...


I'd like to go with after market shocks as well...I just like the looks of them ;)
(but I have to wait...money...money)

Absolutley agree with you its a PIA.

I would expect a big increase in spring preload to change the sag on the rear end so that it sits up more with me on and therefore should turn a bit sharper. As the sping is too soft this does not happen. Damping is harsh and of course not adjustable which as you say would make a big diference.

Here goes £500 on new shocks.

[Moved On / My Own Choice]

I'm hearing mixed reports yes -

Some people are saying the spring is too stiff.

Others too soft.

What size guys are saying what?

[blackxr]

I'm hearing mixed reports yes -

Some people are saying the spring is too stiff.

Others too soft.

What size guys are saying what?

Just for the record I'm a petite 18 stone (250lb). Too many pies. :rolleyes:

I think the damping is what makes it feel hard but I would be interested to see what an independent suspension specialist will say when I swap out the suspension as I am not an expert.

[Moved On / My Own Choice]

Just for the record I'm a petite 18 stone (250lb). Too many pies. :rolleyes:

I think the damping is what makes it feel hard but I would be interested to see what an independent suspension specialist will say when I swap out the suspension as I am not an expert.

OK - Blackxr - you're saying the springs are too soft for a 250 lbs (18 stone) rider - by your esitmation.

Now who said he thoght they were too stiff?? Midas - was that you? Was it someone who also said they werer 180 lbs?

[Midas]

Just for the record I'm a petite 18 stone (250lb). Too many pies. :rolleyes:

I think the damping is what makes it feel hard but I would be interested to see what an independent suspension specialist will say when I swap out the suspension as I am not an expert.

I'm 230lbs (16 1/2 stones)
Like you say its most likely the damping that makes it feel hard, and the seat dont help much:wonderlan

[Moved On / My Own Choice]

I'm 230lbs (16 1/2 stones)
Like you say its most likely the damping that makes it feel hard, and the seat dont help much:wonderlan

Midas, refresh my memory bud - are you saying the suspension feels too hard and not too soft???

[blackxr]

I'm 230lbs (16 1/2 stones)
Like you say its most likely the damping that makes it feel hard, and the seat dont help much:wonderlan

I didn't want to mention the seat. Its a medieval instrument of torture. :(

[Midas]

Midas, refresh my memory bud - are you saying the suspension feels too hard and not too soft???
To hard mate, certainly aint soft.

[Moved On / My Own Choice]

OK - Blackxr - you're saying the springs are too soft for a 250 lbs (18 stone) rider - by your esitmation.

Now who said he thoght they were too stiff?? Midas - was that you? Was it someone who also said they werer 180 lbs?

I'm 230lbs (16 1/2 stones)
Like you say its most likely the damping that makes it feel hard, and the seat dont help much:wonderlan

To hard mate, certainly aint soft.

That's interesting -

So BlackXR at 18 stones (250 lbs) is saying too soft.

Midas at 16 1/2 stones (230 lbs) is saying too hard.

This has to be a preference thing - cause there's no way that little of a weight difference is enough to find the springs limits... ;)

[Midas]

Damping is harsh and of course not adjustable which as you say would make a big diference.

Here goes £500 on new shocks.

Just for the record I'm a petite 18 stone (250lb). Too many pies. :rolleyes:

I think the damping is what makes it feel hard

That's interesting -

So BlackXR at 18 stones (250 lbs) is saying too soft.

Midas at 16 1/2 stones (230 lbs) is saying too hard.

This has to be a preference thing - cause there's no way that little of a weight difference is enough to find the springs limits... ;)
He says the he thinks the springs are soft.
The hard ride is no doubt due to the damping, or should i say lack of.
The fact that the seat is so hard certainly doesn't help matters.
The suspension is as has been said by someone, set up for a smooth race track like surface, rather than our rough roads.

All in all the bike is a very firm ride, which in my opinion needs sorting out, and as far as i see the shocks are the same as a V-Rod...

[Moved On / My Own Choice]

So you guys are saying that the ride is too hard because the shocks are too soft and it's bottoming out?

[Midas]

So you guys are saying that the ride is too hard because the shocks are too soft and it's bottoming out?
No they aint bottoming out for me, the ride is just very hard.
Combination of the shocks and the seat

[Moved On / My Own Choice]

No they aint bottoming out for me, the ride is just very hard.
Combination of the shocks and the seat

2 people separated by a common language.

HARD to me means - firm, jolting, transmitting the bumps directly to the rider -

SOFT means - too pliant, too weak, moving up and down too much, like a pogo stick - not jolting at all, but sorta wallowing.

So UNLESS the shocks bottom out there is no way for SOFT shocks/springs to give a HARD ride - if you get the drift.

Kev

[Bozinski]

2 people separated by a common language.

HARD to me means - firm, jolting, transmitting the bumps directly to the rider -

SOFT means - too pliant, too weak, moving up and down too much, like a pogo stick - not jolting at all, but sorta wallowing.

So UNLESS the shocks bottom out there is no way for SOFT shocks/springs to give a HARD ride - if you get the drift.

Kev

There is...it could be a difference between low-frequency oscillation damping and high-frequency. Low-freq would include motions like getting on and off the bike or cresting whoops on your favorite back road. High-freq would be hitting potholes, expansion joints, speed bumps (at speed), etc. It could be the suspension feels soggy under low-freq motion...probably a result of the springs, and harsh under high-freq...probably a result of shock damping.

I'm not saying that it still isn't an AFU conversation here; certainly you are having a hard time getting to the real story. But I can see where the confusion might come from.

[Midas]

2 people separated by a common language.

HARD to me means - firm, jolting, transmitting the bumps directly to the rider -

SOFT means - too pliant, too weak, moving up and down too much, like a pogo stick - not jolting at all, but sorta wallowing.

So UNLESS the shocks bottom out there is no way for SOFT shocks/springs to give a HARD ride - if you get the drift.

Kev
OK, i'll try again.
The ride is very firm, it does not wallow, or move up and down to much.When the shocks are compressed they seem to decompress much to harshly, that said i aint had much of a chance to play with the limited amount of adjustment as yet.
Its a damping problem.
In my mind a set of shocks with adjustable damping and one inch shorter would fix this and the fact that the seat tilts forward a little to much for my liking, so with harsh damping it tends to move you forward on the seat.
The seat is also very hard, maybe a gel insert would solve this problem.

[Benny K]

Personally I don't think the springs are bad...I think the DAMPER is just crap...
it dampens much to harsh..a damper that is adjustable sure would help.

Another thing Midas just mentioned is the seat tilting a bit to much forward...
I mostly ride with IXS leatherpants...and they kinda stick to the seat and I feel like the pants are stuck to the seat and my legs (body) wants to shift forward..wich I find is the real uncomfortable thing...but I can live with it on shorter trips.

[Midas]

Personally I don't think the springs are bad...I think the DAMPER is just crap...
it dampens much to harsh..a damper that is adjustable sure would help.

Another thing Midas just mentioned is the seat tilting a bit to much forward...
I mostly ride with IXS leatherpants...and they kinda stick to the seat and I feel like the pants are stuck to the seat and my legs (body) wants to shift forward..wich I find is the real uncomfortable thing...but I can live with it on shorter trips.

I'm gonna try and find a couple of pieces of highly compressed foam rubber or something similar about half an inch thick to put under the two bolts at the front of the seat unit to see if i can raise it a bit and see if it makes any difference..

[Moved On / My Own Choice]

OK, i'll try again.
The ride is very firm, it does not wallow, or move up and down to much.When the shocks are compressed they seem to decompress much to harshly, that said i aint had much of a chance to play with the limited amount of adjustment as yet.
Its a damping problem.
In my mind a set of shocks with adjustable damping and one inch shorter would fix this and the fact that the seat tilts forward a little to much for my liking, so with harsh damping it tends to move you forward on the seat.
The seat is also very hard, maybe a gel insert would solve this problem.

On the surface it still sounds like you and BlackXR are saying the opposite - but maybe not. Maybe you're both saying the RIDE IS HARSH - and attributing it to different aspects - him thinking the springs are too soft FOR THE amount of dampening that occurs, and you saying the springs are firm but the dampening is uh more firm?

It would sound like Benny agrees with you...

Personally I don't think the springs are bad...I think the DAMPER is just crap...
it dampens much to harsh..a damper that is adjustable sure would help.

[Midas]

Kev, i have never mentioned the springs....
Its a hard ride and the damping is crap, and the seat is hard, and it tilts forward to much, which may not be a problem if the damping is sorted out. But i aint paying £500 ($1000) to sort it out, thats the price of the only shocks i have seen for the XR1200.
From what i can see the shocks are the same as the V-Rod, so i am gonna have to look into changing them, maybe Progresive 440s

[Moved On / My Own Choice]

Kev, i have never mentioned the springs....
Its a hard ride and the damping is crap, and the seat is hard, and it tilts forward to much, which may not be a problem if the damping is sorted out. But i aint paying £500 ($1000) to sort it out, thats the price of the only shocks i have seen for the XR1200.

Gotcha, then it must be my bad - I must have ASSumed that when you said Hard Ride - you meant Hard Springs -
:o

[krono]

since you have a tach, what is the idle speed? my idle speed is driving me nuts, I need it lower now, or I'm going to kill somebody... I need my bag of potatoes

[Midas]

since you have a tach, what is the idle speed? my idle speed is driving me nuts, I need it lower now, or I'm going to kill somebody... I need my bag of potatoes
1050rpm or about 1500rpm on start up.
Thats something i dont understand, why all injected models seem to have a high idle speed.
There is an adjuster on this for idle but i aint messed with it yet.

[Moved On / My Own Choice]

What is this obsession of trying to pose with your new Harley by making it sound like an old one?

These idle correctly, deal with it.

Little story - back in the early 90s Harley contracted with Weber-Marelli to make the first EFI system for EVO Big Twins (of which I had one of the first RKs delivered with it). That fuel system is essentially the same one used on my Guzzi California Jackal (some of the sensors are even interchangeable) just that the Guzzi uses a dual-throttle body version.

Anyway, magazines reported after talking to Harley engineers that the first time the Weber-Marelli guys delivered the system, the Harley guys were disappointed that it idled too smoothly. They told the WM guys to go back and try to reproduce the idle of a carbed Harley.

So the WM guys hit the drawing board again and did some studies to see what gave that sound. Now back in the shovel/iron days worked bikes with more radical cams probably contributed to that sound a bit, but the WM guys figured out that by the EVO days it was simple really - the odd syncopated ignition timing of the 45 degree V-twin, combined with the shared intake manifold for carbed motors meant that at any given moment, turbulence from one cylinder was having a negative effect on the idle air/fuel quality of the other cylinder - up to a ridiculous amount (I forget the numbers, but as badly as more than 50% I think).

The WM guys figured they COULD duplicate that idle, IF they used a random-fuzzylogic idle mapping that purposely disrupted fuel delivery.

The also figured that was STUPID and told Harley to live with it.

Which they did.

My 96 EFI EVO RK sounded weird to people at first - especially me.

But I got used to it.

The EFI Sportys will idle a little high (which is pretty normal in the world of EFI) UNTIL they are warmed - then they come down to a respectable 1k, no big deal.

Kev

[krono]

[warning, rant :P]
the problem is that just cant get used to it, sounds like a POS, every time I go out in my 1200 I go back home thinking what a huge piece of flaming ****, cursing, full of feelings of just setting her on flames, killing the creator of EFI and all his family and/or all the EPA board, it just makes the bike 0 enjoyable, there is a lot of red ligths here so every 3 or 4 blocks I get to hear it again, cursing me, and when I stop @ garage I just want to turn it off quickly to don't even listen to that crap anymore... this has taken me hours of sleep thinking on how to solve it, I feel very ripped off by harley, they should warn customers that the bike is not going to idle like the older ones, but more like a japanese clone, at least make a carbureted version for markets that arent under the influence of EPA...

So far, the EFI bike has only a little more than 2000 km since I got it while my carbureted 883 gets that much km every month... the only reason is the idle sound, can't stand it, is like listening to someone playing on a badly tuned guitar, just sounds painful...

and here is a big lemon... try selling a almost 20 K USD bike in south america, if I could I have sold it next day I received from USA...

[Moved On / My Own Choice]

[warning, rant :P]
the problem is that just cant get used to it, sounds like a POS, every time I go out in my 1200 I go back home thinking what a huge piece of flaming ****, cursing, full of feelings of just setting her on flames, killing the creator of EFI and all his family and/or all the EPA board, it just makes the bike 0 enjoyable, there is a lot of red ligths here so every 3 or 4 blocks I get to hear it again, cursing me, and when I stop @ garage I just want to turn it off quickly to don't even listen to that crap anymore... this has taken me hours of sleep thinking on how to solve it, I feel very ripped off by harley, they should warn customers that the bike is not going to idle like the older ones, but more like a japanese clone, at least make a carbureted version for markets that arent under the influence of EPA...

So far, the EFI bike has only a little more than 2000 km since I got it while my carbureted 883 gets that much km every month... the only reason is the idle sound, can't stand it, is like listening to someone playing on a badly tuned guitar, just sounds painful...

and here is a big lemon... try selling a almost 20 K USD bike in south america, if I could I have sold it next day I received from USA...


WELL FIRST OFF - are you sure it's idling too high? Haven't you said you don't have a tach?

IF IT IS ACTUALLY idling at 1500 rpm, after it's warmed up - BRING IT TO THE DEALER - THAT's a warranty issue.

As for Harleys idling properly - it's been a DECADE NOW since they introduced EFI - they are not hiding anything in the fact that their bikes have idled better.

HELL even the carbed ones have idled better for more than a decade when some numbnut didn't change them from factory idle spec just to sound cool.

So confirm there is actually a problem - and if so - take it to the dealer or get an aftermarket controller that will allow you to futz with that setting.

Kev

[Benny K]

What is this obsession of trying to pose with your new Harley by making it sound like an old one?

These idle correctly, deal with it.



I really had to laugh when I read that...I totally agree with you KEV...

and that's the first thing that came to my mind too when I was reading krono's last post lol...

damn...it's the 21st century now...who's even talking about carburetors now? carbs are such a mess compared to EFI, wich is, so much simpler when you get to understand it!

I'm sure you could tweak the ecu for a lower idle but hey, do you want those annoying coughs and misfires when you're on a stop with your new 20k bike?
I simply can't understand this...
:frownthre

[Midas]

These idle correctly, deal with it.


Kev
"NO":D

Ideal idle is 800rpm, if you fit Thundermax you can reduce it.
And like i said their is an ajuster on this thing so i am going to drop it a touch and see how she goes.

[Moved On / My Own Choice]

"NO":D

Ideal idle is 800rpm, if you fit Thundermax you can reduce it.
And like i said their is an ajuster on this thing so i am going to drop it a touch and see how she goes.

"Have fun storming the castle"

:wonderlan

[hrg]

congratulations, great bike. enjoy it

[Benny K]

I managed to lift the front wheel off the street when shifting into 2nd gear today while I was passing a slow car...

fun

[Benny K]

I get a clunky metallic noise sometimes when accelerating with a bit more load from under 2500rpm. Comes from the Primary cover. Maybe the Primary chain needs to be adjusted...?
Well its going to inspection in two weeks...

Can someone test something for me please?
Bike must be warm (driving for about 15min)..now when I drive in 5th gear at 2000rpm's and hit the throttle about 3/4 I still have this metallic noise from the left side...
It's not there when the engine is rather cold...and it get's worse as hotter it gets.
Had it in the first inspection and told them...well they said they did check the tension of the primary chain and did not hear anything...I don't believe them..
I still think it's the chain...but don't know if its kinda normal..because at 2000rpm and a bit load the engine really shakes around lol....
I never had a noise like that on my 883R

[Moved On / My Own Choice]

Can someone test something for me please?
Bike must be warm (driving for about 15min)..now when I drive in 5th gear at 2000rpm's and hit the throttle about 3/4 I still have this metallic noise from the left side...
It's not there when the engine is rather cold...and it get's worse as hotter it gets.
Had it in the first inspection and told them...well they said they did check the tension of the primary chain and did not hear anything...I don't believe them..
I still think it's the chain...but don't know if its kinda normal..because at 2000rpm and a bit load the engine really shakes around lol....
I never had a noise like that on my 883R

It's called pinging - it's cause you are lugging the motor.

2k rpm is too low in 5th for any real load.

There are likely both gearing differences and torque curve differences which MAY HAVE allowed you to get away with this more on the 883R - though honestly that's still kinda low for any load.

It happens more with more heat because well, the warmer the motor is the more likely it can ping...

[Ralphthe3rd]

Ahem...2000rpm in 5th is LUGGING ! And with the cams and higher compression the XR1200 uses, you are definately pinging under the load, if you continue this style of riding, you'll do damage to the motor. And don't think it's just an octane problem either, this bike ain't no regular harley, it wants to SING in the upper revs, not SNORE like an old man in his LazyGlide -LOL :p

It's called pinging - it's cause you are lugging the motor.

2k rpm is too low in 5th for any real load.

There are likely both gearing differences and torque curve differences which MAY HAVE allowed you to get away with this more on the 883R - though honestly that's still kinda low for any load.

It happens more with more heat because well, the warmer the motor is the more likely it can ping...

[Benny K]

uh dont get me wrong guys...I'm not driving like this!!! I noticed that accidentally once when I was taking off from a stop and that's just the way to reproduce it...
It's not an octane problem..I use 95 octane and tested it with 98 octane...I know how pinging sounds...you need more compression and load to get pinging with 98 octane...

and besides that...the bike didn't do it when it was newer...

does this bike have no knock sensor? theres a cable on top of the cylinderhead going down in the middle of the rocker cover...

[rottenralph]

I agree with kev and Ralph. My bike would probably explode if I constantly road around at 2000 rpm and then went 3/4th throttle. Stay around 3000 and your problem will go away. The wire going to the center of your head is a temp sensor. Lugging your motor like you are is a great way to burn a hole in the piston. Typically performance cams in Harleys push the torque curve up and 2000 isw too low. Also notice that most dyno runs start at 24-25 hundred because below that is not the area where real power is built. Cruising at 2000 is ok but opening up the throttle alot from there is not. Shift down and excelerate if you want your bike to ride right and not ping.

[Hondo Cat]

....when I drive in 5th gear at 2000rpm's and hit the throttle about 3/4 I still have this metallic noise from the left side...

Don't do that any more Benny! 2 grand is too low for 5th gear or any gear if you ask me, unless you're taking off from a stop!

On my Harley poseur Triumph Speedmaster :frownthre, I typically keep the RPMs around 3.5 to 4.5 grand regardless what gear I'm in except for when I take off in first from a stop, then, of course, the RPM would be lower or if I need to pass someone and then I kick it up to around 6.8 grand. I try to keep my bike in the "powerband". It makes it's HP at 6,750rpm and Torque at 4,800rpm. Sure, my gas mileage suffers a little, but I enjoy it! The way my bike is geared, on on the Interstate and in top gear (5th) I'm turning 4,500rpm.

[Midas]

Can someone test something for me please?
Bike must be warm (driving for about 15min)..now when I drive in 5th gear at 2000rpm's and hit the throttle about 3/4 I still have this metallic noise from the left side...
It's not there when the engine is rather cold...and it get's worse as hotter it gets.
Had it in the first inspection and told them...well they said they did check the tension of the primary chain and did not hear anything...I don't believe them..
I still think it's the chain...but don't know if its kinda normal..because at 2000rpm and a bit load the engine really shakes around lol....
I never had a noise like that on my 883R
Exactly the same here, i noticed it the day i bought the bike.
Checked chain tension when i got home and found it was a bit on the slack side, tightened it a bit and its much better;)

[Benny K]

Exactly the same here, i noticed it the day i bought the bike.
Checked chain tension when i got home and found it was a bit on the slack side, tightened it a bit and its much better;)

ah finally someone not questioning my driving habits! :)
I will check it myself then! thanks midas!


Thanks for all the replies but I have to say I know how to handle a motor trust me...It's my damn job! :D

[Moved On / My Own Choice]

does this bike have no knock sensor? theres a cable on top of the cylinderhead going down in the middle of the rocker cover...

No knock sensor as far as I know


Exactly the same here, i noticed it the day i bought the bike.
Checked chain tension when i got home and found it was a bit on the slack side, tightened it a bit and its much better;)

Yes, certainly that's a possibility too - especially since he said specifically from the left side.

ah finally someone not questioning my driving habits! :)
I will check it myself then! thanks midas!


Thanks for all the replies but I have to say I know how to handle a motor trust me...It's my damn job! :D

Hey, you can't ASSume anything in troubleshooting, especially on the net.

Still - your description of how to reproduce it gave us a reason to question that - I mean, since you really shouldn't be there to cause that sound in the first place right... ;)

[Benny K]

;)

yeah but it does it sometimes when taking off a little bit faster...that's how I found out about it first...

[Hondo Cat]

ah finally someone not questioning my driving habits! :)Thanks for all the replies but I have to say I know how to handle a motor trust me...It's my damn job! :D

Sorry Benny, but 2grand in 5th with 3/4 throttle threw me for a loop. ;)

[Moved On / My Own Choice]

;)

yeah but it does it sometimes when taking off a little bit faster...that's how I found out about it first...

Well, check the chain and let us know - but if it's not the chain - then perhaps we do need to look at fuel and delivery --- k

[Benny K]

time for a little update...

that's what the tires look like after 3000km's on my bike:

rear one...you can't go any furher with that idiot stock-exhaust...with the tire itself I'm quite happy..
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a1/ampegsvt4/XR1200/DSC02171.jpg

front
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a1/ampegsvt4/XR1200/DSC02182.jpg

oil leak rear rocker cover:
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a1/ampegsvt4/XR1200/DSC02180.jpg

and front as well..the front one looks like that on the whole front side behind the frame.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a1/ampegsvt4/XR1200/DSC02178.jpg


today I was in the black forest and nearly crashed the bike because of this:
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a1/ampegsvt4/XR1200/DSC02176.jpg

I really have to say the harley engineers should be slapped in the face for making such an idiot exhaust. the headers and cat are hanging way to low..
As soon as I got the money I'm ordering a REMUS exhaust for mine. Slip on's are out of the question because those headers have to go.
You won't get a lot more leaning angle with another exhaust but it's surely much more safer cause you will scrape with your foot/footrest first like on the left side.

And the rear shocks have to go as well...you can read in other threads about that...much to bumpy ride on bad roads...

I'll swap out the original footpegs as well. I can't get enough grip with my daytona boots on the original ones...

I got used to the saddle by now so that's no priority for me.

[Moved On / My Own Choice]

Oil leak at the rockers - so it IS A SPORTY! ;)

Thanks for the report, good to see you using the bike as intended.

But what I can't tell is are you happy with it?

[xr1200malc]

Mine had the same oil leak on the rockers but took it back to the dealer & they wiped it off & told me it was factory sealant & to be fair its not done it since & is leak free 1600 miles to press.

And there is the tyre thing mine has done 1600 miles as I say but the rear will be lucky to see 3000 its well on its way but thats the price yopu pay for it eh I love the tyres though theyre great so will fit the same again but need a nice price to smooth the mrs a bit (hopefully).

By the way Im loving the xr its great only fault is the headlight is crap I would be better off with a push bike lamp

[Moved On / My Own Choice]

Mine had the same oil leak on the rockers but took it back to the dealer & they wiped it off & told me it was factory sealant & to be fair its not done it since & is leak free 1600 miles to press.


For what it is worth, on a new bike, like during break-in I've occassionally seen some seepage (like from around the cylinder head bolts) of oil - when the bolts were lubricated before torquing.

Had this on our 05 883L, wiped it up and viola, no more problem.

[Benny K]

It's not factory sealant at all..I can wipe it off and after about 100miles it looks the same again...it will be done on the second maintenance (8000km) or maybe earlier ;)

Kev,
I really love the bike!! :)
And somehow it's cool that there is still room for improvements...otherwise it would be boring, right?

Personally I think the lighting of the headlight is really really good for such a small lamp!

[Unix]

hi,

about the shifter, i have the same problem on my Buell... i don't understand why they didn't improve this, since they've had 8 years (my buell is a 2000 model)!

regarding the fuel cap, try a Buell cap, should fit and it has a lock.

[chacon101]

Very cool write up. Thanks for doing it.

Don't know if I am in the minority here but I can't seem to fall in love with that bike. I am not knocking anyone else for liking it but I personally don't like it.

I do very much like some of the dirt track inspired bikes but this one is just a bit boring or something.

That said, I do like some features on it and hope that they are interchangeable with my 1200N. For example, I LOVE the rear sets and if I can buy them, it's on.

[Benny K]

chacon, they won't fit your 1200N...they are bolted to the frame.
but there are great aftermarket rearsets for sportsters! :)

[chacon101]

Awe man, that sucks. I know there are aftermarket parts out there and have checked alot of them out. I just like the idea of keeping everything Harley if possible.

Thanks for the heads up though :)

[Hondo Cat]

It's not factory sealant at all..I can wipe it off and after about 100miles it looks the same again...it will be done on the second maintenance (8000km) or maybe earlier ;)

Kev,
I really love the bike!! :)
And somehow it's cool that there is still room for improvements...otherwise it would be boring, right?

Personally I think the lighting of the headlight is really really good for such a small lamp!

Benny, do you know why the front fender is so far off the front tire? Or is it just me? It's certainly not as close to the front tire as most sportbikes.

[RUNHD]

Benny, do you know why the front fender is so far off the front tire? Or is it just me? It's certainly not as close to the front tire as most sportbikes.

I think it's because it was designed from the "street rod" front fender which is made for a 19" tyre. But the XR has a 18" front tyre.:frownthre

[Benny K]

Hondo...I think it's just for that bad ass look :laugh
I was going to say it's for that flat track look but then I realized that they do not even have a front fender :doh

well I think it looks cool...but I dont like the plastik look so I brought front fender and battery cover as well as oil tank cover to my painter to paint it black like the tank and the rest.
I post pictures as soon as it is mounted...

[Benny K]

Time for some new pics...

I had the front fender and it's support as well as the oil and battery cover painted in matching gloss black.
I think that's something the factory should have done already...
a lot of people are complaining about the cheap looks of this bike (I am not)...I think those matt grey-black covers and fender do not help.
In my opinion it looks much more like a finished product now...I am very pleased.

I added black levers too...me likes that :D
Next thing will be the lower half of the tank and the airbox inlet...and maybe belt cover..

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a1/ampegsvt4/XR1200/DSC02194.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a1/ampegsvt4/XR1200/DSC02195.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a1/ampegsvt4/XR1200/DSC02196.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a1/ampegsvt4/XR1200/DSC02198.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a1/ampegsvt4/XR1200/DSC02200.jpg
levers
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a1/ampegsvt4/XR1200/DSC02197.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a1/ampegsvt4/XR1200/DSC02199.jpg

[Hondo Cat]

Time for some new pics...

I had the front fender and it's support as well as the oil and battery cover painted in matching gloss black.
I think that's something the factory should have done already...
a lot of people are complaining about the cheap looks of this bike (I am not)...I think those matt grey-black covers and fender do not help.
In my opinion it looks much more like a finished product now...I am very pleased.

I added black levers too...me likes that :D
Next thing will be the lower half of the tank and the airbox inlet...and maybe belt cover..

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a1/ampegsvt4/XR1200/DSC02194.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a1/ampegsvt4/XR1200/DSC02195.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a1/ampegsvt4/XR1200/DSC02196.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a1/ampegsvt4/XR1200/DSC02198.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a1/ampegsvt4/XR1200/DSC02200.jpg
levers
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a1/ampegsvt4/XR1200/DSC02197.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a1/ampegsvt4/XR1200/DSC02199.jpg

Very, very nice Benny!

[chacon101]

Thanks for the pics Benny, the bike looks great :clap

[OmegaRunner]

Very nice Benny! And it's the color that I want when they finally bring the bike to the US.

[Benny K]

thanks for the comments! :)

now other things I noted:

since last week I am no more able to start the engine unless the tranny is in Neutral..
however the "sidestand" message is working so he sidestand switch is working...

the other thing happened to me for about 3 times:
just when I want to take off from a stop...right the moment I open up the throttle from idle the engine coughs once and then stalls...funny thing on a fuel injection bike...:frownthre

the clunky noise I had from the engine when accelerating from lower rpm's was not pinging like some people suggested (I even read in a magazine that they think the engine is prone to pinging)...like Midas, I checked the tension of the primary chain and tightened it a bit (something the damn dealer was not competent of doing so altough I told them to check the tension of the chain)...now it's muchmuch better!

[Moved On / My Own Choice]

the other thing happened to me for about 3 times:
just when I want to take off from a stop...right the moment I open up the throttle from idle the engine coughs once and then stalls...funny thing on a fuel injection bike...:frownthre


I'm starting to think this has to do with the IAC valve...

[Benny K]

I'm starting to think this has to do with the IAC valve...


I don't think so...idle is very constant...it sounds more like a misfire....

ah yeah..another thing...the stupid flap in the airbox is annoyingly loud when opening and closing around 3000rpm. it closes on part throttle when passing 3000rpm...but it does that with an extremely loud "clack"...
sometimes you open up throttle and it's still closed...no big intake sound and 2 seconds later it opens and you got the full noise (<= I like it)..only does it sound very weird because the flap opened 1 second and 700rpms to late...

I'm going to trash that thing anyway....


Kev...did you check my pics with the fender and covers painted? I think you'll like it

[Moved On / My Own Choice]

I don't think so...idle is very constant...it sounds more like a misfire....


Yeah, I know what you're saying, cause the EFI Sportys are doing it too, once in a while, but it's always coming off idle - i.e. the transition from the IAC valve to the throttle butterflies. The same timing that carb models used to fart... I'm still thinking there's something wrong with that transition, whether it is how the IAC valve is functioning or how the ECM is reacting to the initial signal from the TP sensor...





Kev...did you check my pics with the fender and covers painted? I think you'll like it

YUP - luv it! :clap

Kev

[Midas]

I don't think so...idle is very constant...it sounds more like a misfire....

ah yeah..another thing...the stupid flap in the airbox is annoyingly loud when opening and closing around 3000rpm. it closes on part throttle when passing 3000rpm...but it does that with an extremely loud "clack"...
sometimes you open up throttle and it's still closed...no big intake sound and 2 seconds later it opens and you got the full noise (<= I like it)..only does it sound very weird because the flap opened 1 second and 700rpms to late...

I'm going to trash that thing anyway....


Kev...did you check my pics with the fender and covers painted? I think you'll like it
Benny, have a look at this.
https://www.kitechperformance.com/store.php?show_cart=1&b_price=10.50&p_rn=1302&discount_price=&discounted_qty=&discounted_qty_in_cart=&quantity=1&add_to_cart=1&prod_rn=1302&prod_name=Harley-Davidson+2007+-+2008+Twin+Cam+Intake+solenoid+eliminator+plug+%3C br%3EKPL-200011&microtime=0.96088800+1223909417&update_item=&edit_item=&x=51&y=13
Only a few $ from what i'm told it fits the XR as well as TC's
You can ditch the flap when you connect it up.
I've got one but not fitted it yet as i am taking the bike off the road for a few other mods in a couple of weeks and will fit it then.

[Unix]

it could also be a "fart", or "cough" caused by overheating... i have this problem on my Buell if i get stuck in heavy traffic, and i try to take off it farts in the carb - probably has to do with the stock lean mixture.

[Benny K]

thanks for all the replies guys!

next two months or so I'm going to get me a REMUS exhaust, trash the intake flap and maybe get the lower part of the tank painted black too....

we will see what time (or should I say money) brings ;)

[CosmicHD]

thanks for all the replies guys!

next two months or so I'm going to get me a REMUS exhaust, trash the intake flap and maybe get the lower part of the tank painted black too....

we will see what time (or should I say money) brings ;)


Benny, Your bike looks very nice. Please keep updating this thread with new pictures as you continue your modifications.

[grafpak]

anybody no if the xr12000 motor is any faster/more powerful/different to a std efi 1200??? on the hd web site they list all the same engine specs ! i thought it might have at least had some buell cams or something!!..dc..

[Ralphthe3rd]

...of course the motor is is more powerful than a standard EFI XL1200 ! And the cams are actually Higher Performance than the "E" series cams that come in the Buell XB's ! READ THE THREADS ON THE XR1200 on this Website !

anybody no if the xr12000 motor is any faster/more powerful/different to a std efi 1200??? on the hd web site they list all the same engine specs ! i thought it might have at least had some buell cams or something!!..dc..

[Benny K]

Benny, Your bike looks very nice. Please keep updating this thread with new pictures as you continue your modifications.

sure thing! :)

[Moved On / My Own Choice]

anybody no if the xr12000 motor is any faster/more powerful/different to a std efi 1200??? on the hd web site they list all the same engine specs ! i thought it might have at least had some buell cams or something!!..dc..

Which website are you looking at? What country?

Because the specs we've seen published are different.

but the XR1200 isn't officially on the US website yet.