Are these comfortable bikes, both for the rider and passanger? Are they dependable? Can they be made comfortable if they aren't already? Could a rider and a passanger do a full day without many gripes?

I'm looking for something that can do two-up rides a lot better than my current ride. I'd like to keep something domestic, and the big HD's I think are just going to be too much money. This bike probably won't get ridden a ton, but when it does it will be for a good amount of time.

Just didn't know if anyone had any real experience with one of these. The extra comfort isn't more for as it is for my passanger, so she'll need a good seat and a backrest. I understand she won't be able to just relax back there like on an EG or a Goldwing or anything, but just something better than I have now.

Also, didn't know what years they made these things...didn't they go into the late 90's? I better double check the Buell History thread...

Any thoughts are appreciated.

http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/Gallery/Buell%20S3T%20Thunderbolt%2001.jpg

S3's were made from '97 through 2002.

There are a series of things with Buell tube frame models that were somewhat troublesome, like exhaust system mounting and rear isolators. As the years went on, Buell came out with fixes, and in a lot of cases even provided them for free to the owners of the older Buells. By the time they quit making the tubers in '02, they had evolved into a fairly trouble-free bike. They're more stressed than a Sportster, though, and not as reliable overall.

The S3 came with a "Lightning" motor in '97 (91hp rating), a carbureted Thunderstorm motor in '98 (101hp rating), and with DDFI injection from '99 through '02 (101hp rating).

You might consider an S2 instead, if you can find one in good shape. The S2 was only made in '95 and '96. I personally think it's a better bike, and I've owned both. But I'm sure you can find folks who will argue with that. The S2 is a very special motorcycle in the world of Buell, and the best Buell ever made IMO. Read the Buell history thread, I talk more about them in there.

I rode 18,000 miles on a 1997 Buell M2 and had nothing but problems -

1) fuel starvation due to a kinked gas tank vent tube,
2) front motor mount was replaced,
3) swingarm was replaced,
4) had to hotwire the kickstand switch to start the engine,
5) oil drain tube almost wore thru because it was rubbing on the swingarm (a REALLY bad design)
6) replaced leaking valve cover gasket
7) burned 1/2 quart oil every 1,500 miles
8) more stuff than I can recall right now...

When I listed it I only got 2 phone call, one guy came over and paid cash. I was lucky to have sold it. In comparison, when I sold my Honda CBR 600 last summer I must have had 40 phone calls and it sold quick.

The M2 was a hoot to ride at 400lbs and 80lbs torque, but any 600cc crotch rocket was MUCH faster.

That's my story and I am sticking by it.... maybe you will have better luck than I did!

Aaron - any word on the comfort of them? I understand the riding position sin't as aggressive as the other models. Is passanger comfort any good?

If you are riding a passenger I would recommend the S3 because you can get a seat from Corbin that has a removeable backrest option. You cannot get that for an S2 But I agree with Aaron that the S2 is a better bike.

I owned an S3 and my wife rode on the back for several 400 mile days without any complaints with the Corbin. Stock seat not so good.

Like Aaron says try to find a 2001 as it has all the latest improvements done to it.

1) fuel starvation due to a kinked gas tank vent tube,
2) front motor mount was replaced,
3) swingarm was replaced,
4) had to hotwire the kickstand switch to start the engine,
5) oil drain tube almost wore thru because it was rubbing on the swingarm (a REALLY bad design)
6) replaced leaking valve cover gasket
7) burned 1/2 quart oil every 1,500 miles
8) more stuff than I can recall right now...


I recognize most of those problems!

1) The tank vent/check valve got recalled - replaced for free
2) Hmm ... not sure. Sometimes the rubber mount up there gets torn. It's a common part, same as an FXR uses. There was a recall on the fastening of the front bracket to the head on certain models.
3) The 95-98 swingarms were all recalled, replaced for free
4) The 96-99 (maybe '00 as well) kickstand switches were recalled, replaced for free. S2's don't have a kickstand switch
5) My '99 M2 did that too. Not recalled AFAIK. Should've been, it'd be damn dangerous had it eaten all the way through and dumped all the oil from the tank onto the rear tire before I caught it.
6) Common issue on Sportsters and Buells until they came out with the metal gaskets in '01 I believe. Possibly worse on Buells due to the additional rpm.
7) Not that unusual on these motors, whether Sportster or Buell, with factory bore jobs. Some are worse, some are better.
8) Rear isolators fail? Common problem until they came out with the latest design. Exhaust system brackets & header studs breaking? Very common until they came out with the "Y" mount. Still happened some after that. Still happens some on XB's too. Rear taillight disintegrates due to vibration? Mostly an S1 issue. No fix AFAIK, just replace periodically. Tank paint and/or decals bubbling? They used to replace'em for free even out of warranty. Belt breakage or bearings spinning in the wheels? Buells need the belts set floppy loose due to the anti-squat geometry and I've seen LOTS set up at HD tightness specs by clueless techs, which is a sure fire way to screw things up.

Just a note of warning, the DDFI on 99-02 S3's and X1's has been known to be finicky and troublesome. Especially on '99 models.

Also, S3T's are fairly famous for breaking that right side fairing lower, from vibration.

So maybe I should be looking for something else?

Aaron - any word on the comfort of them? I understand the riding position sin't as aggressive as the other models. Is passanger comfort any good?

The S3 & S3T (which has higher bars) sit a little too upright for my tastes. I much prefer the S2 riding position ... butt a little farther back, bars a little narrower and lower. Takes a lot of pressure off my back. Feels more natural on the bike and I can control it better, feel more connected to it.

S2's are smoother, not as powerful, and more reliable in my experience. The power issue can be addressed ;)

So maybe I should be looking for something else?

Oh, I dunno, I can't tell you what kind of bike to like.

I will say though that I have roughly a dozen motorcycles and I've owned many more over the years and my S2T is far and away my favorite out of any of them.

Oh, I dunno, I can't tell you what kind of bike to like.

I will say though that I have roughly a dozen motorcycles and I've owned many more over the years and my S2T is far and away my favorite out of any of them.

Just wasn't sure if this was going to be more trouble than a bike is worth. I have thought about just getting another rubbermount sportster and deck it out with the windsheld, bags and beckrest, but I figured I'd try something a little different.

Would it be safe to assume that an older model would have the updates done since they were done for free? If they aren't, is it something that can still be taken care of?

I'm not ruling out an S2T, they're just a bit harder to come by, and I like the idea of having a newer machine if possible. I'd still have to try and find one locally though just to sit on at least so I can see if it's even something I'm interetsed in.

Like I said, this is more for the lady than it is for me, and I don't want to change and/or get rid of my Sportster. Whatever bike I get, the sole purpose will be two-up or really long trips. It doesn't need to be a canyon carver, but it doesn't hurt either. I looked at older Goldwings, but I started to throw up a little in my mouth, so I bagged that idea.

I certainly wouldn't assume that all the upgrades were done. But it's not hard to tell.

I'm not going to lie to you, the S3, like the S1, X1, and M2, are finicky machines. They are not as solid as a Sportster, at least not in my experience. They have quirks and they need attention. They reward you by being fun to ride, excellent handling, excellent brakes, while keeping the traditional American V-Twin Sportster based motor. But with maybe the exception of the S2, they're not as trouble free as a Sportster. Even the S2 has got a few things to watch for though. But it's the most reliable of the tubers.

I understand the new Ulysses is a pretty decent sport-tourer, and has a real comfortable passenger seat, and hard bags available for it. The XB's are pretty high quality, reliable bikes by all measures I've seen. That may be the way to go, if you can afford it, they're a bit pricey for me.

Actually, the Ulysses is what promted all of this...saw one in the dealership with all the hard bags on it and thought about it. Sticker was something like 12 grand with everything. I like that bike, but it would have to be lowered back down. I'm not going to goin off road with it, so I have no need for the otherwise odd-feeling tall suspension. I wasn't sure how that seat was though. Maybe I'll see if the dealer will let me take a demo on it with her on the back and see how she likes it. Like I said, it's more for her anyways.

for comfortable touring I'd go with an older Yamaha FJ1200 but since you want to keep it domestic i guess that won't fly. Still though it's a 130 horse strong and fast touring machine....

I really don't know what I want at this point...I may start another thread in the general area looking for idea. It doesn't need to be a Sports Tourer, just needs to offer a lot of passanger comfort.

HI, I made this post on another forum... and would like to give my input here too...

I just wanted to say that I have seen some/many complain on the net about the problems with the older tube bikes and I guess it must be true, (not saying it's bs) I don't know. I would like to say I that any problems I have had with my 00/01 X1 bikes have so far been minor/nil (knock on wood) and my dealer took care of them when ever there was one. I did buy both NEW (not used) so this could be why I am confused with some of the comments I have seen in the past with these bikes having so many problems... I have not and overall been VERY HAPPY with performance and the reliability. I do understand others have not but just wanted to state again I have have not had any real problems with my X1 bikes. Maybe it's due to my dealer???.

I know jap and other bikes also have problems also, it just seems to me that some would like to single out Buells for some reason. I see jap riders cutting these bikes down on the net... it just makes me laugh... imo, HD in the past never had a bike worthy of jap fan boys to make fun of... now some of those same people seem to be loosing sleep over Buell lol... ALL BIKES can have problems... got a call last night from a guy I know that bought a new GSXR 600 ALLSTAR in 03 for $13000cnd. He said from the start once in a while the bike would run a bit rough the odd time from the day he got it off the show room floor but the dealer always told him it was fine when they looked at it... So he has a grand total of 1200km on the bike now and as he was driving to work last week, it just stopped running on the side of the road, He had it towed to the dealer and they told him the computer is shot and told him it will be about $2000cnd to repair LOL, he has no warranty left on it now LOL.
Funny thing is this guy was talking smack about my bike awhile back about the old out of date engine in my bike thats still running perfect... I love my F.I 00/01 X1 buells, so far they have been great to me.

http://images6.theimagehosting.com/buell.jpg

Kazoom, believe me, I can relate. I have an S1W, an S2T, and an M2, and to me, the bikes are fine. They meet my expectations and needs in terms of reliability and serviceability and I really enjoy them.

But something I've learned through 7-1/2 years of Buell ownership is that different people have entirely different perceptions of what's acceptable and what isn't. Something that seems minor to you or me seems major to someone else, and might really sour them on the bike. That list posted by Slodown is a classic example. All those things are piddly to me, but they obviously weren't to him. So I'm trying to respect that.

Not knowing anything about Mr. XL1200R, the last thing I want to do is tell him how great the bikes are and have him go buy one, be unhappy with it, and be mad at me. So I was just trying to give him the data and let him decide.

all those little quirks are just character...... ;)

Well all I can say again is that I bought 2 new x1 bikes from the dealer and have had no real issues from these specialty bikes... when I thought I seen a ("1) kinked gas tank vent tube") on one of my bikes I just took my glove off, scratched my ass, pulled my underware out of my crack and tugged on the tube with my two fingers squeezing the tube between my two fingers using my right hand and all of a sudden the kink was gone.:doh

I guess you are 100% right aswracing..."Something that seems minor to you or me seems major to someone else":D

I have always loved the XL power plant over the big twin tractor stuff, to me Buell really put the "sport" into the sportster, to me the whole point of owning this type of bike has to do with the old school 1960's pushrod engine design that can still hang with the new high tech bikes. To have this old classic design that grunts, burps, farts, spits, sets off car alarms and wakes the neighbors up is the whole point of owning one of these bikes. Maybe these bikes are not for those that don't like to change there own oil, fuel filter or do maintainance on there bikes, I don't know... I do remember the very first accsessary/high perf part I bought for my bikes was my very own service manual, same as when I got my first muscle car, to me BUELL's are the real american muscle bike... sorry if I sound like an a-hole... just the way I see it. :tour

Good points all. Having owned a S2T myself, that's what I would look for.
Second would be a '98 S3T, as it is carbed.
I believe that any recall items will still be done, a dealer can check the VIN to see if they have been.

My M2 ownership experience had almost everything on the list wrong, and some other stuff, but I would not have traded the experience for the world.

That being said, I am thrilled to just jump on the XB9SX and fire it up. At 10k miles, it continues to be bullet proof. I used to use my Saturn SC2 to go get parts for the Buell to keep it running, now I use my Buell to get Saturn parts :)

The list of problems with tubers are pretty well understood, and as Aaron indicates, the solutions are pretty well sorted as well. It was more painful to live through the experimentation then it would be to jump in after the game. If you don't like wrenching though, you will spend a lot of money at dealers getting little simple stuff cleaned up. If you don't mind wrenching, you could take a bone stock tuber and have it modified into a pretty reliable bike with a few easy weekends of work and say $400 or less in parts.

However, the Uly is a incredibly well sorted bike for what you describe you want to do. It's reliable, incredibly functional, has great luggage options, has the backrest, and has a seat described as "most comfortable this side of a gold wing" by an independent journalist. Tons of room and comfort for two up all day riding, and that riding can include fire or gravel roads.

No wrong choices, just different good ones. S2t's and S3's (and M2's and S1's) are going really cheap and are pretty cool bikes. Various flavors of XB's are amazingly functional and reliable, and did I mention they are amazingly functional? They *really* work, and the pinnacle of this is probably the Uly. It's all good.

Well, the wrenching doesn't bother me...do it all the time on my bike and my car - working at a shop for 5 years gives you a little know how, you know?

I looked up the S2T - what a MUCH better looking bike. Can't put my finger on it, but it is. Seat looks better, bags are a little narrower, fairing looks narrower too. But that seat - is that really good for 2-up? Can you get the backrest for that one as well?

The Ulysses is a cool machine, but the price you can get a tuber for is what caught my eye. 12 grand for a ulyses with the bags vs. 6 grand for a nice S2T or S3T.

I don't know...I like my S3T. Mine is an '02, last year of the tubers. The guy I bought it from complained of nothin but problems with it...I bought it, replaced the O2 sensor, reset the throttle position sensor...and have had NO problems since (knocking on wood). I love it, love the sound (confuses people), love the ride (I find it comfortable), Love the look (I can just look at it for hours). I don't know how it is for 2 up, wife rides her own sportster...If you want narrow bags, they have both lids (wide and narrow). I think if I was going to be doing a lot of 2up, I would look into the Uly (changing out the front fender though)...as I am personally hooked on Buell. I know I am no help, but just someone saying that they love their S3T.

Sounds good Ess3.....

Some people just aren't happy unless they're whingin ;) :D:D:D


I come accross a lot of people that expect that they can treat a bike like crap and not maintain it and it should last forever...

Even a lot of the jappas have problems... never mind the Euro stuff .... older Ducs are a whole different level of headache if ya don't keep on top of them... but again hardly an issue if it's treated correctly..