I posted this before, but some folks here may not have seen it:

04-06 Sportster XL1200 Cam Install

Read the Service Manual prior to performing any work!

Note: This installation was not done on an 883 engine, however, the procedures may be the same. Gasket part numbers may be different. Cam ID numbers are different as per the Service Manual.
______________________________________

Parts and Supplies List:

Cam Set

Gasket, Cam Gearcase Cover
P/N 25263-90D
1 ea

Gasket, Upper Rocker Cover
P/N 17353-89B
2 ea

Gasket, Lower Rocker Box (Metal)
P/N 16800-84
2 ea



Gasket, Center Rocker Box
P/N 17358-84A
2 ea

Anti-seize compound, blue Loctite, 3 cans of spray brake cleaner, paper towels and shop rags
______________________________________

Removing Seat, Fuel Tank, Air Cleaner, Spark Plugs and Coil:

Remove the single screw at the back of the seat. Push the seat forward and then up to detach it from the slots underneath the seat.

It would be wise to remove the fuel tank when it is almost empty of fuel. Turn the fuel petcock valve off. Remove the fuel line attaching to the petcock. Remove the small vacuum line that also attaches to the petcock. Remove the fuel vapor line that attaches under the tank on the right side. Remove the front and rear tank attachment bolts. The tank will then pull out from the top.

Remove the air cleaner, to include the air cleaner backing plate. This backing plate will be attached to both heads by a large bolts.

Remove the spark pugs. (You will later be rotating the engine)

Remove the coil. It is held in place by 2 hex head screws. This will make more room in order to remove the front upper rocker cover.
______________________________________

Removing Upper Rocker Cover, Lower Rocker Box and Pushrods:

Note: Mark all valve train components as they are removed so they will be re-installed in there original locations. We will be removing one rocker cover / box assembly at a time.

Remove the 4 small Allen head screws that attach the upper rocker cover.. Remove the upper rocker cover.

Remove all the small bolts except for the 4 larger black colored rocker arm bolts that attach the lower rocker box to the head. The smaller bolts will include 3 small standard type bolts and 2 small Allen head screws per cylinder. After these 3 bolts and 2 screws are removed, first loosen the 4 larger black colored rocker arm bolts by turning them all in 1/2 turn increments using a criss-cross pattern (this relieves the valve spring pressure evenly). Once loose, remove the rocker arm bolts.

Once these 4 black bolts are removed, the lower rocker cover can be removed. Remove and discard the small rectangle rocker box center gasket.

The rocker arms will not be removed from the lower rocker cover assembly.

Remove the metal lower rocker box gasket from the top of the head and discard it.

Remove the pushrods from the pushrod tubes. Mark these so they will be later replaced in the same location.


Note: The intake pushrods have an orange colored painted band. The exhaust pushrods have a purple band. They are of different length. If yours are not painted ... the intake rods are the shorter rods.

Remove the plastic crankcase breather from the already removed lower rocker cover. It’s attached with 1 torx head screw. Once the breather is removed, the rubber upper rocker cover gasket can be removed and discarded. Mark the breather, as it needs to be installed on it’s original rocker cover. (The breathers are not interchangable between lower rocker covers).

Repeat the previous steps for the other cylinder.

Clean all parts with brake cleaner.
______________________________________

Removing the Cam Gear Case Cover:

Note: The cam gear case has 11 Allen screws of various lengths. They will need to be replaced back in the same holes from which they were removed. So, there proper location will need to be marked upon removal. Suggest you make a drawing of the cam gear case on a piece of cardboard, and then stick them into the carboard in the proper orientation.

Place a flat drip pan under the cam gear case. It will leak oil when removed.

Remove the Allen screws holding the gear case on and place these Allen screws on your piece of cardboard.

Pull the case out slightly so that it unattaches itself from it’s gasket and the engine case. You will note that it will not come completely off because the foot peg / foot brake pedal attachment support (it’s painted black) will interfere with the case. Loosen the 2 large Allen head bolts that attach this support. You do not need to completely remove these bolts. Loosening will allow the support to move outward far enough so the cam gear case can then be removed.

Note: The case’s bushing alignment with the camshafts has a VERY close tolerance. That means that the case will need to come straight out. There will be no side-to-side or up-down play in the case. Once the case’s bushings are clear of the bushings on each cam, the case can be slightly rotated out of position.

You will need to remove a rubber oil vent line that attaches to the rear area of the case before the case can be completely removed (see picture below). Since the clamp holding this oil line cannot be reused, you will need to purchase a new hose clamp when the case is re-installed.

http://f5.putfile.com/6/16817270457.jpg

Remove and discard the gasket. Clean the case with brake cleaner.
______________________________________

Removing the Cams:

Place the transmission in 5th gear.

Rotate the engine by turning the rear wheel so that all cams are lined up exactly as shown in the diagram below.
This is done best if the bike is placed on a lift in order to get the back wheel off the ground so it can be rotated by hand.

http://x402.putfile.com/4/10520111672.jpg

Once all cams are perfectly lined up, remove all 4 cams by pulling them straight out. Do not remove the #5 pinion gear (This gear actually is held in place with a large nut)

Note: The hydraulic lifters do not need to be removed. They will remain in there bores once the cams are removed.

Once all cams are removed, DO NOT rotate the engine. This will make it much easier to install the new cams in there proper position.
______________________________________

Cam Identification:

Prior to replacing the cams, they should be cleaned with a spray of brake cleaner and then lubricated thoroughly with engine oil to include the cam lobe and drive gear.

#1 cam (Rear Exhaust Cam)
#2 cam (Rear Intake Cam) (cam with double gears)
#3 cam (Front Intake Cam)
#4 cam (Front Exhaust Cam)

Note: The “V” markings on the cams are not used for timing purposes. Disregard them.

Again, refer to the diagram above while installing the cams.
______________________________________

Installing the Cams:

Insure that the timing mark on the #5 gear (pinion gear) is still pointing directly at the center of the #2 cam’s bushing (see picture below). Again, the engine should not have been rotated since the cams were removed.

http://x402.putfile.com/4/10520102388.jpg

Note: The lifters can be moved slightly up into there bores with you fingers while you are installing the cams which will allow each cam to slide all the way into the bushing in the engine case.

Install the #1 cam. Insure that the slot marking is also pointing directly at the center of the #2 cam’s bushing.

Install the #3 cam. Insure that the slot marking is also pointing directly at the center of the #2 cam’s bushing.

Install the #2 cam. As you install this cam, insure that all 3 timing marks (dots) on this cam line up with the timing slot markings on the other 3 gears (#1 cam, #3 cam and the #5 pinion gear). Again, refer to the diagram below.

Now install the #4 cam. Insure that it’s timing mark (dot) line up with the dot on the #3 cam.

All timing marks should now be alligned exactly as in the photo below:

http://x402.putfile.com/4/10520133636.jpg
______________________________________

Re-Installing Cam Gear Case:

Clean all spilled oil with brake cleaner prior to re-assembly.

Clean the surface of the engine case that mates to the cam gear case with brake cleaner.

Prior to re-installing the cam gear case, attach the new gasket to the engine case with a little contact cement. That will keep the gasket in place while installing the cam gear case.
Re-attach the rubber oil vent line to the cam gear case with a new worm clamp prior to installing the case.

Apply some oil to the bushings in the gear case. Be careful not to scratch these bushings!

Gently install the cam gear case. Remember, it goes in straight. There is no side-to-side or up-down clearance.

Once the cam gear case is fully in position, tighten the Allen screws in a criss-cross pattern.

Note: Although the Service Manual does not specify to use anti-seize compound on these cam gear case mount bolts, I feel it is nessesary to prevent galling.
______________________________________

Re-Installing All Other Components:

Re-assemble all other parts in reverse order of disassembly.

Note: When installing the metal lower rocker box gasket, note that the raised bead of the gasket is facing up.

Note: Remember to install those 4 larger rocker arm bolts in the lower rocker box before installing the smaller bolts / screws. Tighten those rocker arm bolts in a sequence so they will tighten down evenly together. The lower rocker box will sit slightly off the head prior to tightening the bolts.

Note: When installing the lower rocker box, insure the pushrods are in a fully down prior to tightening the rocker arm bolts. This will cause the least amount of spring pressure on the rocker arms prior to tightening. (turning the rear wheel will verify this)

Note: Insure all bolts/screws are tightened to the proper torque spec.

Note: Blue Loctite was also used on the rocker arm bolts even though not specified in the Service Manual. Be sure they are free from any oil prior to applying Loctite.

When in doubt … Refer to the Service Manual

Thank you!

You're definately the most helpful person on this forum. Again, thanks. I'll do this myself next time. You 'da man.

I'm glad this is now a sticky.
This is one of the best written and illustrated how-to's I've ever seen.
My hat's off to you.

good job Turbota. you always have great info.

Will these direction be the same for an 2001?

I beleive they are the same for any Evo solid mount Sportster. I have not had a chance to crack open the gearcase on a rubbmount to see those.

I am in the process of putting my Sporty back together after installing SE Bolt-ins and I am having one hell of a time getting that rod back through one of the rocker arms. I turned the engine untill the pushrod was at it's lowest point and it is still not letting the rocker arm set low enough that the rod will go through. Any ideas (Please)?

thanks turbota I have the manual but your pics help alot hopefully I will be undertaking this task this winter

Pics and write up are awsome. Really helped out when I did mine last weekend!!! Thx

The andrews cams website talks about changing the #2 cam DRIVE GEAR on my 05 883, its pressed on, when it this necessary?

In 2000, HD changed the pitch of the pinion gear that drives the oil pump. Cams are the same, so if you buy used cams (or the wrong new ones) you'll have to have the pinion gear swapped out. That's what's pressed on. I think it's more trouble than it's worth so just get the right gcams to start with.

Great post Turbo. Did you put stockers back in or did you upgrade?

I removed the SE .551" cams and installed a set of Zippers Red Shift cams (see signature). They take your quiet stock cams, then grind off the lobes and then weld on new lobes .... Sounds kinda screwy, but if your stock cams were quiet, the new cams will be too.

Wow,
thing must run like a beast! I may have to contact you when I decide to start upgrading my motor for serious power.

I would Assume we are talkimg about the "Bolt in" Cams here, correct ??

Great info! Just would like to add a tip. I used a tool (looks a like a screw driver with a magnet on the end) to hold the lifters up while installing the new cams.

Hello all I'm about to install Andrews N3's into my '05 1200 custom and was wondering why you would put the bike into 5th gear only reason why I'm asking is i haven't read it in the manual or the instructions that came with the cams i know the manual is more about rebuilding the engine but i would think the instructions would say something about that any way if someone could let me know i would appreciate it thank you in advanced.

I posted to put it in 5th gear so it would be easy to rotate the engine by moving the bike back and forth ... remember, you want the lifters on the cylinder you are working on in there full down position when installing the rocker box on that cylinder.

Thank you i figured it had to do with that. Thanks for all the great info on this site I've learned alot and I know I will continue to do so.

Will N3 cams work with 883 heads, on a 2005

Will this work on a 2003 883C?

Turbota- Nice work. Having done cams on pre-rubber evo and ironhead, this procedure will work on pretty much evrything.

I just wanted to add something I read about and used during re-assembly.

Buy four long bolts four inches or so, same thread as cam cover fasteners &
cut off head/grind end on bench grinder to round them like a pushrod.

Thread them into holes of cover mating surface on engine, then hang gasket on them & slide cam cover over them. Bolts hold cover up & act as centering device too. Remove & replace with proper fastener when satisfied everything is ready to torque up.

An alternative to cementing gasket, re-usable.

Again, nice work.

Turbota- Nice work. Having done cams on pre-rubber evo and ironhead, this procedure will work on pretty much evrything.

I just wanted to add something I read about and used during re-assembly.

Buy four long bolts four inches or so, same thread as cam cover fasteners &
cut off head/grind end on bench grinder to round them like a pushrod.

Thread them into holes of cover mating surface on engine, then hang gasket on them & slide cam cover over them. Bolts hold cover up & act as centering device too. Remove & replace with proper fastener when satisfied everything is ready to torque up.

An alternative to cementing gasket, re-usable.

Again, nice work.

Great tip !

Good tip,
I used straws. kabob skewers work good too!:D

Here is another little tip if you want the cylinders to stay put after removing the heads ... (for whatever reason you would need to remove just the heads):

BTW ... those are the stock headbolts

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p158/Turbo6ta/DSCN0549.jpg

what happened to all the pics?

Repost with Photos:


04- Sportster XL1200 Cam Install

Read the Service Manual prior to performing any work!

Note: This installation was not done on an 883 engine, however, the procedures may be the same. Gasket part numbers may be different. Cam ID numbers are different as per the Service Manual.
______________________________________

Parts and Supplies List:

Cam Set

Gasket, Cam Gearcase Cover
P/N 25263-90D
1 ea

Gasket, Upper Rocker Cover
P/N 17353-89B
2 ea

Gasket, Lower Rocker Box (Metal)
P/N 16800-84
2 ea

Gasket, Center Rocker Box
P/N 17358-84A
2 ea

Anti-seize compound, blue Loctite, 3 cans of spray brake cleaner, paper towels and shop rags
______________________________________

Removing Seat, Fuel Tank, Air Cleaner, Spark Plugs and Coil:

Remove the single screw at the back of the seat. Push the seat forward and then up to detach it from the slots underneath the seat.

It would be wise to remove the fuel tank when it is almost empty of fuel. Turn the fuel petcock valve off. Remove the fuel line attaching to the petcock. Remove the small vacuum line that also attaches to the petcock. Remove the fuel vapor line that attaches under the tank on the right side. Remove the front and rear tank attachment bolts. The tank will then pull out from the top.

Remove the air cleaner, to include the air cleaner backing plate. This backing plate will be attached to both heads by a large bolts.

Remove the spark pugs. (You will later be rotating the engine)

Remove the coil. It is held in place by 2 hex head screws. This will make more room in order to remove the front upper rocker cover.
______________________________________

Removing Upper Rocker Cover, Lower Rocker Box and Pushrods:

Note: Mark all valve train components as they are removed so they will be re-installed in there original locations. We will be removing one rocker cover / box assembly at a time.

Remove the 4 small Allen head screws that attach the upper rocker cover.. Remove the upper rocker cover.

Remove all the small bolts except for the 4 larger black colored rocker arm bolts that attach the lower rocker box to the head. The smaller bolts will include 3 small standard type bolts and 2 small Allen head screws per cylinder. After these 3 bolts and 2 screws are removed, first loosen the 4 larger black colored rocker arm bolts by turning them all in 1/2 turn increments using a criss-cross pattern (this relieves the valve spring pressure evenly). Once loose, remove the rocker arm bolts.

Once these 4 black bolts are removed, the lower rocker cover can be removed. Remove and discard the small rectangle rocker box center gasket.

The rocker arms will not be removed from the lower rocker cover assembly.

Remove the metal lower rocker box gasket from the top of the head and discard it.

Remove the pushrods from the pushrod tubes. Mark these so they will be later replaced in the same location.


Note: The intake pushrods have an orange colored painted band. The exhaust pushrods have a purple band. They are of different length. If yours are not painted ... the intake rods are the shorter rods.

Remove the plastic crankcase breather from the already removed lower rocker cover. It’s attached with 1 torx head screw. Once the breather is removed, the rubber upper rocker cover gasket can be removed and discarded. Mark the breather, as it needs to be installed on it’s original rocker cover. (The breathers are not interchangable between lower rocker covers).

Repeat the previous steps for the other cylinder.

Clean all parts with brake cleaner.
______________________________________

Removing the Cam Gear Case Cover:

Note: The cam gear case has 11 Allen screws of various lengths. They will need to be replaced back in the same holes from which they were removed. So, there proper location will need to be marked upon removal. Suggest you make a drawing of the cam gear case on a piece of cardboard, and then stick them into the carboard in the proper orientation.

Place a flat drip pan under the cam gear case. It will leak oil when removed.

Remove the Allen screws holding the gear case on and place these Allen screws on your piece of cardboard.

Pull the case out slightly so that it unattaches itself from it’s gasket and the engine case. You will note that it will not come completely off because the foot peg / foot brake pedal attachment support (it’s painted black) will interfere with the case. Loosen the 2 large Allen head bolts that attach this support. You do not need to completely remove these bolts. Loosening will allow the support to move outward far enough so the cam gear case can then be removed.

Note: The case’s bushing alignment with the camshafts has a VERY close tolerance. That means that the case will need to come straight out. There will be no side-to-side or up-down play in the case. Once the case’s bushings are clear of the bushings on each cam, the case can be slightly rotated out of position.

You will need to remove a rubber oil vent line that attaches to the rear area of the case before the case can be completely removed (see picture below). Since the clamp holding this oil line cannot be reused, you will need to purchase a new hose clamp when the case is re-installed.

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p158/Turbo6ta/DSCN0475.jpg

Remove and discard the gasket. Clean the case with brake cleaner.
______________________________________

Removing the Cams:

Place the transmission in 5th gear.

Rotate the engine by turning the rear wheel so that all cams are lined up exactly as shown in the diagram below.
This is done best if the bike is placed on a lift in order to get the back wheel off the ground so it can be rotated by hand.

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p158/Turbo6ta/DSCN0473.jpg

Once all cams are perfectly lined up, remove all 4 cams by pulling them straight out. Do not remove the #5 pinion gear (This gear actually is held in place with a large nut)

Note: The hydraulic lifters do not need to be removed. They will remain in there bores once the cams are removed.

Once all cams are removed, DO NOT rotate the engine. This will make it much easier to install the new cams in there proper position.
______________________________________

Cam Identification:

Prior to replacing the cams, they should be cleaned with a spray of brake cleaner and then lubricated thoroughly with engine oil to include the cam lobe and drive gear.

#1 cam (Rear Exhaust Cam)
#2 cam (Rear Intake Cam) (cam with double gears)
#3 cam (Front Intake Cam)
#4 cam (Front Exhaust Cam)

Note: The “V” markings on the cams are not used for timing purposes. Disregard them.

Again, refer to the diagram above while installing the cams.
______________________________________

Installing the Cams:

Insure that the timing mark on the #5 gear (pinion gear) is still pointing directly at the center of the #2 cam’s bushing (see picture below). Again, the engine should not have been rotated since the cams were removed.

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p158/Turbo6ta/DSCN0474.jpg

Note: The lifters can be moved slightly up into there bores with you fingers while you are installing the cams which will allow each cam to slide all the way into the bushing in the engine case.

Install the #1 cam. Insure that the slot marking is also pointing directly at the center of the #2 cam’s bushing.

Install the #3 cam. Insure that the slot marking is also pointing directly at the center of the #2 cam’s bushing.

Install the #2 cam. As you install this cam, insure that all 3 timing marks (dots) on this cam line up with the timing slot markings on the other 3 gears (#1 cam, #3 cam and the #5 pinion gear). Again, refer to the diagram below.

Now install the #4 cam. Insure that it’s timing mark (dot) line up with the dot on the #3 cam.

All timing marks should now be alligned exactly as in the photo below:

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p158/Turbo6ta/DSCN0476-2.jpg
______________________________________

Re-Installing Cam Gear Case:

Clean all spilled oil with brake cleaner prior to re-assembly.

Clean the surface of the engine case that mates to the cam gear case with brake cleaner.

Prior to re-installing the cam gear case, attach the new gasket to the engine case with a little contact cement. That will keep the gasket in place while installing the cam gear case.
Re-attach the rubber oil vent line to the cam gear case with a new worm clamp prior to installing the case.

Apply some oil to the bushings in the gear case. Be careful not to scratch these bushings!

Gently install the cam gear case. Remember, it goes in straight. There is no side-to-side or up-down clearance.

Once the cam gear case is fully in position, tighten the Allen screws in a criss-cross pattern.

Note: Although the Service Manual does not specify to use anti-seize compound on these cam gear case mount bolts, I feel it is nessesary to prevent galling.
______________________________________

Re-Installing All Other Components:

Re-assemble all other parts in reverse order of disassembly.

Note: When installing the metal lower rocker box gasket, note that the raised bead of the gasket is facing up.

Note: Remember to install those 4 larger rocker arm bolts in the lower rocker box before installing the smaller bolts / screws. Tighten those rocker arm bolts in a sequence so they will tighten down evenly together. The lower rocker box will sit slightly off the head prior to tightening the bolts.

Note: When installing the lower rocker box, insure the pushrods are in a fully down prior to tightening the rocker arm bolts. This will cause the least amount of spring pressure on the rocker arms prior to tightening. (turning the rear wheel will verify this)

Note: Insure all bolts/screws are tightened to the proper torque spec.

Note: Blue Loctite was also used on the rocker arm bolts even though not specified in the Service Manual. Be sure they are free from any oil prior to applying Loctite.

When in doubt … Refer to the Service Manual

Thanks for posting this. Although I have a solid mount, I do appreciate the ability to see it in pictures.

sweet thanks man

Hi Turbota,

Is there an updated number for the rocker box gasket? Maybe a "C" suffix?

Thanks,

Matt

Will N3 cams work with 883 heads, on a 2005Yes, I've got them; they're great! http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v319/cigarman/cigarman.gif

Matt ...

As you may know, I have been in the Philippines without my bike now for more than a year ... Sorry, I can't answer your question.

Hi Turbota,

Is there an updated number for the rocker box gasket? Maybe a "C" suffix?

Thanks,

MattI believe the latest version is the 'c' suffix: 17353-89C.

What kind of performance improvement should I expect by fitting N3 Cams. I realize the available rpm's will increase. Does it affect low end torque? This would be my first engine upgrade, having changed out the pipes V&H longshots) and Stage 1 SE air.

What kind of performance improvement should I expect by fitting N3 Cams. I realize the available rpm's will increase. Does it affect low end torque? This would be my first engine upgrade, having changed out the pipes V&H longshots) and Stage 1 SE air.Available rpms? What do you mean? The improvement I noticed particularly was an increase in low to mid range torque.

Available rpms? What do you mean? The improvement I noticed particularly was an increase in low to mid range torque.

The splurge that I read on the Andrews N3 cams talked about an increase in rpm to 6500!:dunno Low to mid range torque is what interests me. Thanks:)

The splurge that I read on the Andrews N3 cams talked about an increase in rpm to 6500!:dunno Low to mid range torque is what interests me. Thanks:)Well, I must admit that with the N3s in its very easy to hit the rev limiter in first, if I don't change up into 2nd pretty smartish, but I think they're very much a low to mid range cam. Certainly compared to hotter cams that only come in at all at higher revs. If you really want to concentrate the improvement on the low end, you could look at the N2. Talk to Dan at NRHS, he'll be able to advise you.

Hello Turbota
Can you indicate what is the tightening torque forv the nut holding the crank pinion.
I removed it to replace the sheared key on 1200 sportster 91 and cannot finf this torque in my book.
mkg or Nm would be even better, but that may be too much to ask!
Thanks.

Is it absolutely necessary to remove the heads to do this job?

guillaume ... I never had to remove the pinion gear nut when installing new cams in my 04, so I don't have a clue as to the torque value ... maybe someone else can help you. Ask your question in a new separate thread in this "Bottom End" forum.

CosmicHD ... If you read the "How-To" here, you will see that there is no mention of the need to remove the heads to change cams, however, the rocker boxes need to be removed in order to relieve pressure on the cams placed on them by the lifters.

Is it absolutely necessary to remove the heads to do this job?No, it is most definitely not necessary to remove the heads. Whoever told you that? It is, however, recommended to remove the rocker covers (a different prospect altogether).

I am working on my 91 rubbermount, and am stuck at removal of the cam gears...all of the gears pulled out with the cover when i removed it, and then all but one of the gears came off of the cover....now im stuck w/ the #2 (Rear intake cam gear)...or I should say, it is stuck...it will not just slide out of the cover like the rest did. Do I need to drill out the rivets from the small cover (i dont know what its called, but its the part with the 5 speed symbol on it)?

First off...Brilliant guide! An absolute must for anyone swapping out cams. Made it much, much easier than following the manual.

A few bits of feedback and some comments...


I think you need to remove the front muffler and right side footpeg/brake pedal. Its worth the extra five minutes this takes for the ease of removing the cam cover.

Its also worth pulling forward and off its peg the plastic wiring connector cover under the tank. I couldn't get the rocker covers off until I did this.

If you have an A/C other than stock I think you can do this job without removing the A/C. Try it with it on and only remove it if you need to.

The cam cover can be a REAL pain to get off. I spent half an hour on this. It just wouldn't pull out. Its very tempting to jam a screwdriver in the gap once it moves a little - DONT do it, it will chew up the mating surfaces. I just got a grip at the top left and bottom right and pulled while wiggling it slightly; it took about half an hour but eventually it moved.

I don't really think you need to disconnect the oil vent line inside the cam cover. If you have removed the footpeg then you can swing the cover to the left and tie it up with some string to keep pressure off the pipe.

When fitting the gaskets use blobs of grease around the edges beneath the gaskets to hold them in place.

Some of the bolts are hard to get to with a fat torque wrench. Consider investing in a low profile one, otherwise you will end up guessing the torque for about 1/3 of the bolts.

Remember there are THREE pipes on the petrol tank. I forgot the vacuum pipe to the petcock; it ran for a minute then died and I thought something dreadful had happened until I remembered that darned little vacuum pipe.

REMEMBER THE BIKE IS IN 5th GEAR BEFORE TRYING TO START IT.


Hope some of these ideas are useful to anyone doing a cam swap.

Fox

Great post! Unfortunately, my #4 cam came out when I was beginning my cover swap. So now I get to go through all the steps to get it reset. No worries!

I am working on my 91 rubbermount, and am stuck at removal of the cam gears...all of the gears pulled out with the cover when i removed it, and then all but one of the gears came off of the cover....now im stuck w/ the #2 (Rear intake cam gear)...or I should say, it is stuck...it will not just slide out of the cover like the rest did. Do I need to drill out the rivets from the small cover (i dont know what its called, but its the part with the 5 speed symbol on it)?


Good question, for me :shhhh
I have all those same problems...

Good question, for me :shhhh
I have all those same problems...
Your #2 wont come out? That is the one with the pinion on it and yes you will have to drill out the rivets on the timing cover and unbolt the timing disk.

Yep, if you drill out those rivets, and remove the face plate, you will see another plate right below it; use a flat head to remove those screws; under neath that, you will find the timing plate, with a small bolt in the middle; remove that bolt, and out slides the gear.

DoH! :doh

My simple cam cover shop is now beginning to be more expensive and complicated than i expected.

ignition plate seem in bad shape. Should i put it back or buy a new one? What about the bell?

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o85/dana70_19/sportster/DSC_0022.jpg

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o85/dana70_19/sportster/DSC_0028.jpg

old "gasket"
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o85/dana70_19/sportster/DSC_0027.jpg

rusted ignition "bell"
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o85/dana70_19/sportster/DSC_0025.jpg

riveted rusty cover plate
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o85/dana70_19/sportster/DSC_0026.jpg

Did all this rust is normal? Should i put grease on the bolted bell and silicone gasket the cover plate before putting it back?
Thank's

While you've got it apart, clean away all the rust, replace the sensor pickup and the rotor. :wonderlan

It should be watertight in there. New 'gasket' too, if you can call it that. I made my own rubber ring gasket to put in, in addition to the fibrous one.

Thank's for your time William.
Can you tell me the the purpose of the fibrous "gasket"? Do i really need to put it back?

Thank's for your time William.
Can you tell me the the purpose of the fibrous "gasket"? Do i really need to put it back?

I don't see any purpose of it as far as sealing properties, but it is porous and absorbs moisture. I left mine in as stated prior. I also put one of those silica gel bags in there also. Glued to the bottom of the cone behind the cover plate. Not the sensor plate. Even if it comes loose, there's nowhere for it to go or nothing it would interfere with if it did.

is it just me...or are the pics all gone? Going to be doing cams on a 99 pretty soon, and wanted to have another visual aside from just the manual.

is it just me...or are the pics all gone? Going to be doing cams on a 99 pretty soon, and wanted to have another visual aside from just the manual.
try Page 3

just an idea that my shop foreman gave me about some metric race bike that he used to build but he said just vent the head breathers into the exhaust, put a small fitting into the exhaust smaller than 1/4 npt and that is a simple solution no mess. also he told me that the port going from the cam cover to the oil tank is there for a good reason it helps pressureise the oil tank to aid with the oiling system when you disrupt this pressure it can have negetive affects, like using a t-fitting to vent from that connection. I thought wow that is a simple solution. mabie a welded in bung or just drill it and tap it? I would also think that some copper tubing or some sort would be needed with the heat directly off of the exhaust. wada you guys think?

One of things that you need to try to achieve with a breather is low pressure within the camcover & rocker areas. This reduces the risk of damage to the gaskets like the commonly failing rocker cover ones, it also reduces oil blowby and supposedly even increases engine performance. This is where Krankvents become useful as one-way valves to help lower this pressure, particularly when the weak stock umbrella (or foo-foo) valves inevitably fail.

You obviously also want to be able to vent the crankcase gasses to get rid of moisture and fumes.

If you vent into the exhaust then this is into a high pressure area full of fumes. This has the risk of doing the exact opposite of what you want; it could pump positive pressure exhaust gasses into the crankcase or at best prevent the crankcase from breathing.

Someone was talking about this the other day. They were proposing using a non return valve between the cam cover and the exhaust.

Someone was talking about this the other day. They were proposing using a non return valve between the cam cover and the exhaust.Which would help prevent exhaust gasses from flowing in but wouldn't do anything about the inability of the heads to breath out because of the higher pressure on the exhaust side.

Oh yes, I see what you mean; hadn't thought about that. :doh

Venturi effect. The fast flowing exhaust sucks the crankcase air out. The angle of the connection may effect outcome.

i do believe that the venturi effect would work you could even put it in at an angle, but i do not think that it would be needed. I think that the exhaust would pull on the head breathers and if you wanted to double one way valve it use one of those krankvents or just a pcv valve.

Venturi effect. The fast flowing exhaust sucks the crankcase air out. The angle of the connection may effect outcome.
Nah. If you have ever left out an O2 plug or had an exhaust leak you will know its a positive pressure in there and its just going to pump exhaust gases up any pipe you fix to the exhaust that leads to a lower pressure area like the crankcase.

The venturi effect occurs when a flowing liquid or gas passes through a restricted area causing a drop in pressure due to conservation of energy. That pressure drop is only in comparison to the rest of the flow and not in comparison to any other point like, say, the pressure in the crankcase. Not that there is a tightly constricted place in the exhaust to cause a strong venturi effect anyway.

Check out this thread: http://xlforum.net/vbportal/forums/showthread.php?t=493624
I have wrestled with this and was going to mock up a unit to test - probably running a bung into the balance tube/pipe on my 05.
Using the exhaust pulse to effectively "pull" a vacuum isn't new. It is a tried and true and VERY effective method. In high rpm / high HP motors, HP increases are significant - best yet, it is free HP.
The problem with a HD V-twin is that the pistons/connecting rods run on a common journal. What this means is that both pistons go up at the same time (thereby increasing the volume of the crankcase) and conversely, they both go down at the same time - reducing the crankcase volume. The consequence of this is that a breather or a hose, that is open to the atmosphere will actually breathe in and out, inhale / exhale if you will.
An inline 4 or a V-6 or a V-8 is different because for each piston on the down stroke, there is a piston on the upstroke. The net result of this is that the crankcase volume stays the same.
In that scenario - constant crankcase volume, running a system that maintains it under negative pressure shows 3-5% HP increase - not to mention it does wonders for gasket and seal longevity.
As mentioned in the thread I linked above - I ran a 8 second big block chevy altered - it was a bored and destroked motor (439 cu in)that ran up to 9K - went through the lights at 8500rpm / 165mph. We saw nearly 30 hp gained with an effective crankcase vacuum/scavenge system.

Using a PCV type valve works great for the constant volume crankcase motors - we actually used the anti-backfire valves from the old GM air pump smog motors of the mid 1970's. We welded them into the collectors at an angle to act as a low pressure port. They had large inlet/outlets and could handle the volume.

Since a V-twin is changing the volume, it really needs to breathe freely - that is out AND in. Imposing a one way system would probably lead to negative results. I think that the key is to design a system that allowed a large uninhibited volume of air to move in and out of the motor (crank case).

I am at a loss to fully explain / understand these umbrella valves that HD puts in the rocker boxes. There has to be another intake for the crankcase - When the pistons go down, the crankcase is pressurized (smaller volume) this pressure is released by the umbrella valves through the heads and carries oil vapor with it into the air cleaner. When the pistons go up - the volume of the crankcase increases - the breather system needs to allow air in. This is where the umbrella valves close, so the air isn't coming through there. Additionally it can't be done through the air cleaner anyway - this would dispupt the carburator functions and quite possible draw fuel into the crankcase (baaaad) . SO... it has to come from another port - my guess is that it is situated with or designed in with all the hoses that run in/out of the oil tank.

In the end, a simple problem is now fairly complicated - we need to engineer a balance between the inhalation and exhalation functions of the crankcase -
An ideal system would entail large unrestrictive ports (filtered) that would allow the crankcase to breathe in and out - moving the same volume of air both ways. This leads back to a mod I saw here where the OP drilled / tapped the front of the cam chest and installed a simple breather element. Unfortunately there are pro's / cons of any system -
Personally -
1. I don't want my motor sucking oil vapor through the carb.
2. I don't won't my air filter soaked with oil.
3. I don't want oil on my driveway or anywhere else for that matter.

I do want:
1. The crankcase to breathe freely
2. Free HP
3. Longevity of the motor / gaskets / seals
4. I simple / low cost / minimally invasive mod

and oh yeah - it has to look cool too....

So....where do we go from here?? :dunno

In that scenario - constant crankcase volume, running a system that maintains it under negative pressure shows 3-5% HP increase - not to mention it does wonders for gasket and seal longevity.

Since a V-twin is changing the volume, it really needs to breathe freely - that is out AND in. Imposing a one way system would probably lead to negative results.
But there is a one way system: the umbrella valves let air out when the pistons go down, and when they go up they pull a depression.

I am at a loss to fully explain / understand these umbrella valves that HD puts in the rocker boxes. There has to be another intake for the crankcase - When the pistons go down, the crankcase is pressurized (smaller volume) this pressure is released by the umbrella valves through the heads and carries oil vapor with it into the air cleaner. When the pistons go up - the volume of the crankcase increases - the breather system needs to allow air in. This is where the umbrella valves close, so the air isn't coming through there.
It just reduces the pressure.

An ideal system would entail large unrestrictive ports (filtered) that would allow the crankcase to breathe in and out - moving the same volume of air both ways. This leads back to a mod I saw here where the OP drilled / tapped the front of the cam chest and installed a simple breather element.
I image that you're referring to the Deimus mod. I believe he uses a one way valve in the line from the cam cover.

Folkie,
My ramblings may be less than clear - my apologies. Let me try to phrase it this way.
You lost me with the statement: "But there is a one way system: the umbrella valves let air out when the pistons go down, and when they go up they pull a depression."

It is correct - the umbrella valves let air out when the pistons go down, the crank case is pressurized, and since the umbrella valves only work one way - they vent externally. When the pistons move up - there is a negative pressure - the crankcase wants to draw air in - it can't be through the umbrella valves - they only open to pressure not vacuum.
SO!...
There has to be another port to allow the crankcase to breathe IN - I suspect and I will have to look at the shop manual tonight to verify, that this inlet is incorporated within the hoses for the oil tank. If memory serves me, one of those hoses is named a "Vent".
The other possibility is that HD simply surrendered to the fact that the motor is not totally sealed - that there are "leaks" if you will at various points that allow the motor to draw air in.

This also leads me to a very important point regarding the HP increases from a positive crankcase vent system that we utilized in our race cars. It is absolutely IMPERATIVE that the motor is completely and totally sealed. The system will not be effective with multiple leaks - the exhaust / vacuum system can be the only external port for the crankcase. (Again applicable only to constant crankcase volume engines) The complete seal ensures that the crankcase is kept under a constant negative pressure (vacuum). It gets better as the rpm goes up, allowing the motor to spin easily and the HP gains go up as the rpm goes up.

Does any of this clarify my assertions / theories any better?

ETA: and yes - it was the Demius mod - he used a baffle also, inside the cam chest.

Interesting stuff, Smadge. However you are going over well-ploughed ground here. It has been proven by better engineers than me that the Sportster engine does best with a small negative pressure in the camcase/rocker areas compared to ambient air pressure. No appreciable performance gains have been measured with this by such worthy people as NRHS however it has been shown to eliminate oil blowby and gasket leaks.

Your suggestion of a movement of air in and out of the crankcase is exactly what leads to a lot of oil being spat out of whatever breather you use. Hence the use of umbrella or krankvents to give a one-way flow of gasses from head.

As for your suggestion (along with others) of using the exhaust to 'suck' the crankcase...this can only have the opposite effect with a HD engine of pressurising the crankcase and with fuel contaminated gasses at that. The crankcase breather on stock engines is connected to the carb for the very good reason because that is on the intake side of the engine, there is slightly lower than air pressure area in the carb which can be used to suck on the crankcase breather. However the exact opposite is true at the exhaust where a positive pressure exists that you really just want kept away from the crankcase.

Foxster,
I would have to respectfully disagree with part of your response.

I fully agree with the assertion that engineers and folks like NRHS have determined that the motors will run better with the crankcase under a small amount of negative pressure, no quarrels there.

Let me try to clarify my position,
I would submit that, and I suspect if readings were taken, that the neg. press. applied to the crankcase (through external means) would be at a level to balance out any neg. press. inside the cases - that is, the crankcase wants to suck in and the vent system wants to suck out - it basically balances out, (atmospheric pressure) thus the only active pressure is the pos. pressure pushing out of the crankcase (on the piston down strokes)and aided by the vacuum being applied by whatever external means that we employ.

I fully disagree however, with your statements regarding the use of the exhaust. It is a proven system - it does work. The trick is to place the port into the exhaust pipe at a specific location and it is not simply a hole cut and a threaded bung welded up. There must be an engineered pipe / tube inserted into the exhaust stream and angled down stream towards the exit. In the cars, we utized the collector area where all 4 primary pipes converged - the design of the collector itself is critical since this is what contributes / enable the scavenging of the other cylinders allowing the exhaust system to pull A/F mixtures into the cylinders. In effect we are tapping the exhaust at its venturi area. The use of an anti back fire valve is an absolute requirement. The system must be set up so that it will only draw from the crankcase - nothing can be put back into it.
At low rpm there is little effect and little benefit - however as the rpm comes up and the vacuum increases the system develops a negative pressure in the crankcase.
Trust me - it works, I had the motors on the dyno, there are NHRA Prostock motors that show upwards of 8% gain. We saw 3-5% on our motors (600hp) We were getting 20-30HP for free.

Try this experiment - fill a glass 1/2 full of water and stick a straw in it - now blow across the top of the straw - you will see the water rise up the straw - not alot, but the principle is sound. By blowing across the top of the straw you have created a pressure gradient and this is shown by the movement of the water up the straw. this replicates the exhaust impulse flow and the resultant pressure gradient or vacuum on the crankcase.

Again - the HD motor is a bit of a different animal with a variable crankcase volume - but as you stated, NRHS has proven that a negative pressure helps.

In the end, my personal interest in this is as I wrote before - I don't want oil vapor going into my air cleaner or carb and I especially don't want it going into my combustion chamber - I want clean air and high octane fuel in there - nothing else. In my opinion - HD took the CS way out and plumbed the source of the oil drops on the driveway back into the engine to be burned - they recycled it. Look at the history of EGR vavles and the problems they created - while pumping crankcase vapor into my induction system isn't as bad as exhaust - it isn't a desirable situation - in this I am sure we agree!
Hopefully!:D

BTW - this type of exchange is great - it really gets the wheels turning and the ideas boiling. Please don't take anything I said as a personal affront. Just a healthy exhange of ideas.

He's not talking about negative pressure being applied externally, but about the lowering of pressure that happens automatically when the pistons go up on an air tight engine.

He's not talking about negative pressure being applied externally, but about the lowering of pressure that happens automatically when the pistons go up on an air tight engine.

Folkie,
Who were you referring to?

The HD V-Twin is going to produce both a vacuum and a pressurized crankcase for every cycle of the pistons movement. Pistons go up - we have a vacuum, pistons come down, we have pressure.
It is during the pressure situation, that the umbrella valves open and allow (or push) oil vapor into the a/c & carb.
During the vacuum condition, those umbrella valves close (or should) - this is where the motor needs to draw air into the crankcase - where does it draw from?
Like I theorized - HD probably either surrendered and allowed that the motor isn't sealed, so it will suck air in through a number of spots OR it has a vent built into the plumbing of the oil tank. This would allow the passage of air from the tank or external vent during the pistons upward movement.

Does anyone have a shop manual handy? I believe there is a color diagram in there that shows in blue the oil feed / return and possibly a vent line. I will look when I get home tonight.

Lucky for me it's raining (and will for the next 8 days...) otherwise I'd be pulling everything apart tomorrow to find out once and for all, how this infernal contraption breathes... :headbang

OK. Sounds an interesting idea and I'd like to see it in practice. Personally I think its probably overkill, all the other breather systems work fine dumping the fumes into a small filter or onto the road. Its a very small negative pressure you want to create here, only just slightly less than air pressure, you don't want to be sucking anything through here or you can do more harm than good.

You have to remember that the area at the heads where the breather ports are is not directly connected to the crank area, they are in the isolated area of the camcase and rocker area, there are oilways connecting this to the crankcase but its not one and the same. So creating a large negative pressure through the breather ports isn't a good idea as you will likely draw extra oil into this area.

You also won't get the performance effect you mentioned unless you do tap right into the crank area. Add to this that with a HD engine the negative pressure pulses won't be in sink with the piston falling for the reasons you mentioned earlier when comparing a HD engine to normal 4 or 6 cylinder car engine.

Go for it but personally I think you risk at best that the camcase/rocker area won't get vented and at worst that you end up with fuel fumes in this area that could remove lubrication and ruin the rockers, valves and cams.

I hear what you are saying - I really need to look at the motor closely - you make excellent points in the crankcase / camchest / heads being somewhat partitioned. When I had my motor all torn down, I really should have take the time to map this out. The heads / valvespring area are directly connected via the push rod tubes - but I am curious how the actual crankcase is connected - ports/ passages ?? I just didn't have that on my mind when everything was in pieces.:doh
The crankcase is where these positive and negative pressures are developed so it is intriguing to find how the crankcase itself breathes.

The HP benefit really is only appicable at high rpm anyway. Like I said - I just prefer to not pump it through the carb.
My motivation stems from looking at oil drips on the outside of my cam chest and tracing that to oil dripping from the bottom of my a/c - just irritates me..

Like I said - I just prefer to not pump it through the carb.
My motivation stems from looking at oil drips on the outside of my cam chest and tracing that to oil dripping from the bottom of my a/c - just irritates me..I hear you there, brother. Like lots before us we have tackled that one. Its quite do-able and kinda fun finding the best fix. Enjoy yourself with it ;)

Foxster,
Much appreciated ! I took a look at the manual and there are 4 lines coming out of the oil tank - feed, return, drain and vent - I am looking on my bike to see where / how the vent operates.
This has been a great discussion - seriously gets the wheels turning...

Hey folks,
I am in the process of doing some work to my Sportster(02 1200). I am adding the SE heads that are decked .050" for a 10.5-1 comp, SE bolt in cams, and switching from V&H 2-2 to a V&H 2-1 Pro-pipe. My question is will I need to adjust the jetting? Intake is stock and the carb has already been jetted for the pipes as told by the prvious owner.
Thanks,
Joe

Welcome to the Forum, Joe.

If so far only the pipes have been changed, it's likely the bike didn't even need to have a jet changed; maybe just a tweek of the idle mixture needle. With the changes you're now making, you'll need to do at least that (idle mixture), and probably change a jet too.

thanks for the responce. Just wanted to make sure I didn't have to bump the jetting drastically before I start it.
Joe

super artical you just reduced my worries

I just wish the pics were still visible.....:frownone


When one of these things becomes a sticky, isn't it possible to preserve the pics?

super artical you just reduced my worries

This is a really easy job. I had never worked on a HD or push rod Vtwin before and was a little worried also. All my experience was working on Yamaha Vstar 1100's which are chain driven over head cams. To change the pistons on the V* the whole engine has to be pulled. Big PIA. The sportster platform is very easy to work on. Just read the instructions. **Make sure to pull the little ignition cover and take the bolt out behind the ignition that is going into the #2 cam before you pull the case cover off or the cams will come out with the case cover.