Here is a video that demonstrates why you should leave it in gear at a red light. Ouch...

http://www.msgroup.org/TIP178.html

I agree with you but sometimes even that won't help. This guy never saw in coming.

Holy s :censor t!! That a-hole driving the truck was too busy watching the cop on the side of the road, to notice the biker stopped at the light. I hate it when people slow down to stare at accidents and traffic stops etc....
Look out of your windshield, simple as that.

happens a lot.

This guy never saw in coming.

I think he did. Look closely - you can see the guy (just before impact) shift his weight to his right foot so he can put it in gear with his left.

damn :yikes

16 yrs ago I was hit from behind similar to that....not nearly as bad, thank God.. Mine was only minor scrapes and rear fender dmg. Being in gear at traffic light don't do me a bit of good unless I'm watching as much as possible behind me, and that's never 100% either, really preventative at best, Willp I think you said it...that even when we do all the right things, bad things can happen....true that, we are vulnerable riding bikes, it's a risk I willingly take, but the more educated and experienced and aware we are as riders, the better we fair, and not taking nearly as many risks as i did some years ago sure helps too....Mike

Do you know if the poor guy on the bike survived? I sure hope he did and that he sued the pants off the guy in the truck.

Having investigated a number of fatal accidents of this type, I developed a personal policy of watching the mirrors and leaving it in gear. At least until I can see four or five cages stopped behind me.

Do you know if the poor guy on the bike survived? I sure hope he did and that he sued the pants off the guy in the truck.

I don't know, but it sure doesn't look good. The impact must have been tremendous - the truck flips up to almost 45 degrees with both the right tires *way* off the ground. And all that energy went into the poor rider...

16 yrs ago I was hit from behind similar to that....not nearly as bad, thank God.. Mine was only minor scrapes and rear fender dmg. Being in gear at traffic light don't do me a bit of good unless I'm watching as much as possible behind me, and that's never 100% either, really preventative at best, Willp I think you said it...that even when we do all the right things, bad things can happen....true that, we are vulnerable riding bikes, it's a risk I willingly take, but the more educated and experienced and aware we are as riders, the better we fair, and not taking nearly as many risks as i did some years ago sure helps too....Mike


Me and my buddy were riding through Concord one day and he got tapped from behind. Lucky he didn't dump, he was riding two-up with his girl. We pulled the guy who hit him over to the side of the road, it ended up being some 18 year old kid and his girlfriend. We made him s :censor t his pants before we let him go. I'll tell you one things for sure: that kid will keep his eye out for bikes from now till the day he dies.

I disagree.............I'm always in neutral at a red light. Sure I might get hit in the rear, but I may live. I sure as hell ain't gonna live after popping the clutch and getting hit in the intersection by vehicles coming from the left and right on their green light, and then getting smacked by the guy from the rear to boot..........:yikes

did anyone else happen to notice that there wasn't another vehicle in sight??? The truck had anywhere in the world to go, and he hit a biker that was only a few feet wide. being a driving instructor, I can tell you exactly what he did wrong - he looked at the bike. Sounds weird, but you have a tendancy to go where you look when you're in a panic situation.

I'll tell you one things for sure: that kid will keep his eye out for bikes from now till the day he dies.
that's cool at least there's 2 people who "see" bikes better now. You know there's so much emphasis on us as riders to take motorcycle safety courses, which I agree with whoeheartedly, but how much are cage driver's tought how to be motorcycle friendly, and aware of US on the road????

I'm not going to watch the video but I get the gist. I always keep my bike in gear when I'm stopped at a light or stop sign or whatever. That's what MSF taught and told us to do and I figure they must know what they are talking about since they are teaching folks to be safe riders. ;)

that's cool at least there's 2 people who "see" bikes better now. You know there's so much emphasis on us as riders to take motorcycle safety courses, which I agree with whoeheartedly, but how much are cage driver's tought how to be motorcycle friendly, and aware of US on the road????

That wouldn't matter anyway because the majority of cagers don't even see each other. A class about seeing motorcycles wouldn't make a dent ;)

Someone else posted this same video last week or so. I watched it, and it certainly helped me pay closer attention to what's behind me as much as what's in front. I'm a brand new rider, and so every hint, tip, suggestion, etc. that y'all give out, I will use, so keep all the good stuff coming. I always keep my bike in neutral at lights too, in order to give my hand a break (after a while of riding with no rest, it gets weak, and gives me trouble when trying to squeeze that clutch). Since I'm an inexperienced rider, I'm not sure that changing that would help me, but I'm listening to what y'all have to say. I'm sure a lot of it will stick in my brain. Thank you "older and wiser" riders that be! :tour

............I always keep my bike in gear when I'm stopped at a light or stop sign or whatever. That's what MSF taught and told us to do.........

I know that's what's in the book........but our instructor agreed with me. The only safe direction to escape at an intersection is up.............and my bike don't fly. I do however have my rear light and red lensed turn signals wired so the driver behind sees 3 bright stop lights, instead of just one, which I do flash a number of times as a vehicle approaches from the rear.:tour

Sounds weird, but you have a tendancy to go where you look when you're in a panic situation.
It's called object fixation. It's more than a tendency. It's responsible for a lot of accidents.

I do however have my rear light and red lensed turn signals wired so the driver behind sees 3 bright stop lights, instead of just one, which I do flash a number of times as a vehicle approaches from the rear.:tour

I do that too! I also blink my brake light a couple times in between gearing down coming to a stop.

It's called object fixation. It's more than a tendency. It's responsible for a lot of accidents.

Next time you're riding in a quiet area, fixate on something and watch where your bike goes. That's why the MSF course repeatedly hammers away at "look where you want the bike to be, not where you want to be".

(Sorry Will, this is an edit, I posted the wrong quote, didn't want to quote your post but the one you quoted.)

This truck was coming pretty hard, if it was a compact car instead of the bike it would've been the same worse result maybe even for both truck and car. I agree you only have 2 eyes and you can't look behind you all the time so if somehow you can make one eye look behind and the other eye look in the front then let me know. :)

I have always blinked my brake lights before stopping, and also tap my brakes a few times when I see someone coming up fast behind me while I'm stopped at a light. When they finally stop, then I swallow my heart and wait till the next light to start all over again.

I've seen that "Back Off" device in use and I thought it did a good job of drawing attention to a stopped or slowing motorcycle.

Kim

We get tought the same in Oz about being in gear. When I have a place to go I leave it in gear but if I am stuck in traffic for prolonged periods I will put it in neutral.

I have been hit from behind waiting in traffic. Luckily I was in a car. We were hit hard enough to canon us into the car in front doing significant damage to the car in front. (I have left a good gap and still had the brake on) I hate to think what would have happened if I was on the bike. In my case there was nowhere for me to go to regardless of being in gear or not. How someone can not see three lanes of 10-15 cars stopped has me buggered but he didn't. I know that a bike is smaller than a car but it is still perfectly visible to a vehicle behind. It is just a lack of attention by motorists and an unwillingness to set high enough standards for licences that prevents us from lowering the road toll.

For me, it's a two step process. I leave it in gear and keep a constant eye on the mirror. When a car gets stopped safely behind me, I'll consider putting it in neutral.

I leave it in gear and repeatedly flash my brake light when I see traffic approaching from behind and until they stop. I try and keep it as safe as possible. At night I wear a reflective vest just to draw a little more attention. Always, always watch your mirrors. If you are surprised to see a car stopped behind you when you do look, you were not looking well enough.

I flash my stop light several times when I come to a stop. I like the idea I have seen repeated here several times about blinking even after you are stopped when you notice a cage coming up behind you...think I will try to make that a habit.

I understand Darhawk's concern about not having an acceptable escape route in front, thus his comment about the only safe way is "up!" However I think I would like the option of moving out quickly and take my chances. This video was posted a couple weeks back and someone suggested at that time that positioning yourself way to the side of the lane might be a strategy we could use...giving as much room for the fool coming up from behind to hopefully miss us.

Thoughts:

1. If I position myself at the leftmost part of the lane what is my escape route? The only two directions are straight forward or turn to the left.
A. Going straight forward gives no particular advantage, success would be based on traffic coming from the left (in the US...opposite for OZ?) at first and then from the right. Broadside from the left, then from the right.
B. Turning left from the leftmost part of the lane you are trying to escape from would remove you from the most likely path of the attacking cage, but would place you into a potential head-on situation with oncoming traffic.

2. If I position myself at the rightmost part of the lane my most likely escape routes are, again straight forward, or turn to the right.
A. Straight ahead, same as 1A.
B. Turn to the right from the rightmost part of the lane might offer some advantage. First, I get out of the most likely path of the attacking cage. Second, depending on cross traffic spacing, I may be able to actually merge... depending on how sharp a turn and how fast the acceleration.

Therefore, it seems to me that the most survivable strategy would be to stay to the rightmost part of the lane when you stop at an intersection. Watch the rear until enough cars line up behind you to provide protection. Leave it in gear until you get that protection to keep your options open. At the first indication that you may be in danger, get the :censor out of the way by going right as sharp and quick as you can, doing your best to avoid and merge with any cross traffic.

Does this sound reasonable, or am I just deluding myself thinking that I could react quick enough to make any real difference?

Therefore, it seems to me that the most survivable strategy would be to stay to the rightmost part of the lane when you stop at an intersection. Watch the rear until enough cars line up behind you to provide protection. Leave it in gear until you get that protection to keep your options open. At the first indication that you may be in danger, get the :censor out of the way by going right as sharp and quick as you can, doing your best to avoid and merge with any cross traffic.


This is precisely what a lot of experts teach/preach, and I (for one) agree. And if you have to do a quick right turn, you might be able to stay on the shoulder and not get in the traffic lane at all! And if you can't manage that, at least you're going the same direction as the line of traffic (assuming there is any).

I've been rear ended enough in my 4 wheel cage for me not to trust anyone.

I'm on my mirrors at a stop untill there's at least two cars behind me, in gear and ready to go the whole time.

I'm not above passing the red light if no ones coming and I'm the only one stopped (on my bike that is). to avoid being alone at a stop.

I try to think ahead to the next intersection. If I think I will catch the next light red, I will try to slow down early... causing any cagers behind me to start to react. If I really think the cage behind me is not paying too close attention....I will stop short...giving myself room to move forward.

I live on a street that the traffic moves pretty fast on. I usually need to "slow" the traffic behind me to enter my driveway safe. I get a few asses worked up...but...I get into my driveway safely. Thats what matters to me.

personally if I come to an intersection and I'm going straight on or right I sit on the far right of the lane, and on the far left by the kerb if turning left that way theres a lot of lane left if somebody hasnt seen me - personally I think being in the centre of a lane either riding or stopped is a pretty bad idea.

As for flashing your brake light.. probably a good idea at night but if they havent seen you stop in daylight flashing that light probably wont do much to get their attention .

As for keeping it in gear if I come upto the intersection and the lights are just about to change to green I'll leave it in gear other wise I pop it in neutral. If you notice somebody abut to rear end you its probably wiser to try and jump clear rather than pop the clutch and end up being hit by traffic thats crossing the intersection .

I guess none of you have ever had a clutch cable snap on you. If you're in gear at an intersection, you'll be thrown into the oncoming traffic. I've had one break, not while stopped, but I know it can happen. I prefer to stay in neutral, watch behind me VERY diligently, & flash my brake light until approaching traffic is stopped behind me. I have enough time to pop it into gear if I think my ass is at risk.
I once got bumped from behind while stopped at a red. by some a-hole. I was in neutral and the bike just rolled forward a bit before I braked. My rear fender got bent, but I'm sure if I was in gear, I would've let go of the clutch, and I probably would've gone down. As it turns out, the guy had a brand new pick-up- he trashed his grill and bumper. He ended up giving me $600.00 to fix my damage so we didn't report it. It cost me $50.00 for a new fender and taillight from a wrecker! I estimate his damage at over a grand. Loser!