I know there is alot of talk here about if w cams are any good.
My question is, Does anyone have any dyno sheets of the same bike ran with d cams and the same bike with w cams. Or if no dyno sheets, any firsthand expierience with the seat of the pants?

somebody has to have a response

No dyno sheets but I did install w cams in my 01 1200 custom with SE heads. Compression with the D cams was 170psi. With the W cams it was almost at 200psi. At the 1/8 mile track with D's best et was 8.57 and with the W's it's 8.38. The only adjustment after installing the w cams was I back off the timing alittle. I can hear the differance when the bike is idling too. I bought my W's used for 50 bucks and like them cause I was thinking of trying N8 cams but at 300 bucks I'm glad I went with the W's for now. They are more of a bottom end cam as compared to the topend N8 ones.

thank you for the foodback. It is set in stone now that I am going to be putting in W cams on my scooter. Especially with the 9.5 to 1 comp ratio the pistons are rated at, I think a nice bottom end cam will blend well with them

Some say the w's are close to the N2's ?????

My W's have been sitting on the bench for a few years and I finally got them installed. So if you have some why not give them a try and if you don't like them you could always sell them. I also like them cause they are not as noisy like the aftermarket one's.

Just make sure you get the right set of W's for your year and also the cam cover gasket too. If you get the wrong gasket no oil is going to the lifters and if you get the wrong year w's then a pinnon gear change is needed to make them work.

I even used the same metal rocker box gaskets as a test too and no leaks. Don't know if you want to try that one as for me I don't mind tearing apart bike's. Like my GS dragbike if I don't tear it apart yearly I go through withdraws.

ya there is no qualms here about taking a bike apart when the wonter hits.. I mean what else am I going to do that is bike oriented, except for ice racing. If I had the money to do that then I wouldnt be worrying about using w cams.

The thing I hate the most is the time involved removing the tank, exhaust, speedo, etc and not trying to drop anything or tools causing a scratch. You spend more time doing that then changing the cams.

Good luck and take your time and you'll be fine.

ps. once you get the pushrods and cam cover off get the rear tire off the ground and with the sparkplugs removed rotate the tire as you watch the cams go round and round before you remove them. This way you get a visual picture of how they are timed. You'll see that maybe one of the cams may not look like it's time but after moving the tire just alittle more they all line up.

cool, very nice tip. I will post my results in the winter

Some say the w's are close to the N2's ??
I went from W's to N4's. The difference is subtle under 4000rpm, more noticeable over 4000rpm.

that is what I have heard, many say it is not worth it using n2s because they are so close, but if you have d cams it is a very nice torque gain, so I have heard

I went from W's to N4's. The difference is subtle under 4000rpm, more noticeable over 4000rpm.

I did the same swap, and have the same results on my bike. The N4's really wake up the mid-range and top-end compared to the W's.

INFO SOURCE CAM TIMING DURATION MAX TDC OVER
@0.053 @0.053 LIFT LIFT -LAP

All sources D 02/41 223 0.458 .094 4
41/02 223 0.458 .094

Sportster.org W 05/38 223 0.476 .089 19
46/14 240 0.476 .089

Nightrider.com W 08/36 224 0.470 .122 22
36/14 230 0.470 .122

Andrews W 08/26 234 0.470 .122 22
36/14 230 0.470 .122
Stock Sportster cam data listed for comparison.
Late cams marked "D" ('91 and later) have same specs as "W" cams.

The first line for each cam indicates the intake valve open/close
and the second line indicates the exhaust valve open/close.

Here are a few questions about the stock W cams :
1. As you can see there are a few discrepancies between the above sources,
I would like to know which one is correct. Does anyone know for sure ?
2. What does the footnote from Andrews mean ? That the physical characteristics
as far as dimensions are the same ? Or that they are the same grind ?
3. What about using the intake W cam with the exhaust D cam ? The later exhaust
valve closing should produce more power in the lower RPM’s at the expense
of some of the overlap (which affects the higher RPM’s to a greater degree, no ?).
Of course if Sportster.org is right then this question is moot !
N.B. My exhaust system is not tunable (see signature) so I’m not sure how beneficial the
overlap would be for me, in any case it would still be more than I have now with the D cams.
I seem to recall reading that this type of thing (mixing cams) has been done before.
Thanks in advance, Lloyd :help1

Here's a spreadsheet with cam info;

http://www.sportster.org/tech/cams/xlcams.html

I'm from Pittsburgh too, Greentree.

Bob

Thanks Bob, that is one of the 3 sources I have cited in my post. I'm trying to find out which one is right, they are all different !

"Late cams marked "D" ('91 and later) have same specs as "W" cams."

This is pure nonsense. I'm not sure why Andrews hasn't changed it. It's been on their website as long as the confusion about the W grind cams. A simple check with calipers will confirm this. Hell, you can look at them and see the difference.

Andrews and Nightrider are correct as to the specs. You have a typo in the Andrews specs. I am certain that the intake closing event is at 36 ABDC. Quite some time back, someone with some very good equipment checked a set and came up with an accurate set of numbers that confirms this. It's in the archives at Sportster.org if you care to dredge it up.

A good deal of the confusion arises from the way manufacturers measure there cams. Some measure at .050 lift at the valve and some measure at .055 lift at the valve. Harley takes their measurement at the cam. I believe this is where the Sportster.org numbers came from.

If you want to compare the W's to Andrews cams, use their numbers. If you want to compare them to SE cams use their numbers.

Hope this helps,
Walt

Just make sure you get the right... cam cover gasket too. If you get the wrong gasket no oil is going to the lifters

Ditto on that from personal experience. Don't install it just because it says it is for the correct year. Doublecheck it against the one you're taking off or else you may bleed oil back into the cam cover.

Wrong...
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e390/bigcoastylilwife04/Rich/camcoverbad.jpg

VS

Right...
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e390/bigcoastylilwife04/Rich/DSC02645.jpg

I know there is alot of talk here about if w cams are any good.
My question is, Does anyone have any dyno sheets of the same bike ran with d cams and the same bike with w cams. Or if no dyno sheets, any firsthand expierience with the seat of the pants?

Here is an 883-1250 conversion with W cams.

I have the specs for the D cams and could plug into some software
and see at least if the TQ band is either raised or lowered in the
RPM band. I'm thinking so far that the W cams will have more TQ
in your normal riding style. These cams
might not be that different though... but seem similar from specs duration
wise. Sorry but I don't have an older D grind for comparison for my
2000 sporty.

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t254/groovemeisterus/After883-1250Conversion.jpg

:xlrocks

Merry Xmas

What year did they quit using d grind cams in the 883 and switch to the W's?

What year did they quit using d grind cams in the 883 and switch to the W's?
Here is a subject of some debate. The official line is that the 2007 883s are first with the W cams. The Andrews website claims that the grind has been the same since something like 1991, only the marking (W or D) is different.

I think that someone earlier in this thread said that the Andrews website had a typo about the D&W cams being the same. I know that a 2006 883 in stock configuration was dyno'd and had 38HP at the rear wheel(that is in the Dyno sticky) and that Dan at NRHS Dyno'd his 2007 883 when it was stock and got 44HP. Now, some of that could easily be from the FI, but a lot of it has to be the cam change. It makes it really easy to get over 51HP on the 883 now with just a stage 1....makes it really nice.

David

What year did they quit using d grind cams in the 883 and switch to the W's?

I can't guarantee the accuracy of this data but I got it from nightrider.com.

D-Grind (88-91) ---W-Grind (91-up)
In Open-------------2 ---8
In Close-------------41 ---36
Ex Open------------41 ---36
Ex Close------------2 ---14
In Dur---------------223 ---224
Ex Dur--------------223 ---230
Overlap-------------4 ---22
In Lobe Center-----109.5 ---104
Ex Lobe Center-----109.5 ---101
LSA------------------109.5 ---102.5
In Lift----------------0.458 ---0.47
Ex Lift----------------0.458 ---0.47
In Lift TDC----------0.094 ---0.122
Ex Lift TDC----------0.094 ---0.122

Hope this helps.

:xlrocks

Merry Xmas

I've noticed some round off of numbers for the W grinds from
some of the previous posts with a link to sportster.org from
the sources at nightrider.org.

I guess the next best thing would be to actually measure with
some calibrated tools since some of the numbers don't match.

Weird how different sites have different numbers. The big names
may be right. Or the people may be right. But just make sure
the information you seek isn't from some one trying to show
you numbers for stock and then showing you numbers for their
grind. In my opionion... at least for lots of low RPM TQ, the
W grind can't be beat from the motor company. But you
lose hi RPM HP also. Low RPM TQ... HI RPM HP... or somewhere
in between I guess for combos A B & C. Takes lots of money to get best combination for all scenarios.

:xlrocks

Thanks groovemeisterus.

I just bought a set of W cams from Mtl-XLR here on the forum (who told me I could find the W specs in the recent H-D SE catalog) which I installed over the holidays. Prior to purchasing them I pm'd Dan at NRHS to discuss the differences between the W's and D's and he told me that the Andrews figures are the best, although the intake duration they list for the W is wrong (it should be 214), and their numbers compare closely with H-D's. Before installing the new cams, I compared one of the intake D's with the corresponding W and it seemed to me that the W would definitely open & close the valve earlier than the D. Anyway I had a small window of opportunity last Sunday to take a short (20 minutes) test ride here in town, and I definitely found that the torque comes on stronger at a lower RPM (butt dyno) although some of it may have been my porting job too. I also noticed that the motor sounds quite different due to the increased compression from the earlier intake closing event of the W's, all-in-all I'm very pleased with the results. :clap
I haven't had a chance yet to re-tune the carb since the cam change and porting, but I will do that the next time it warms up enough to go for a short warm-up ride. :doh
Thanks again to Howard and Dan, and Happy New Year to everyone here. :banana

I just bought a set of W cams from Mtl-XLR here on the forum (who told me I could find the W specs in the recent H-D SE catalog) which I installed over the holidays. Prior to purchasing them I pm'd Dan at NRHS to discuss the differences between the W's and D's and he told me that the Andrews figures are the best, although the intake duration they list for the W is wrong (it should be 214), and their numbers compare closely with H-D's. Before installing the new cams, I compared one of the intake D's with the corresponding W and it seemed to me that the W would definitely open & close the valve earlier than the D. Anyway I had a small window of opportunity last Sunday to take a short (20 minutes) test ride here in town, and I definitely found that the torque comes on stronger at a lower RPM (butt dyno) although some of it may have been my porting job too. I also noticed that the motor sounds quite different due to the increased compression from the earlier intake closing event of the W's, all-in-all I'm very pleased with the results. :clap
I haven't had a chance yet to re-tune the carb since the cam change and porting, but I will do that the next time it warms up enough to go for a short warm-up ride. :doh
Thanks again to Howard and Dan, and Happy New Year to everyone here. :banana

Hey Lloyd, glad to see that the cam swap went well, PM me and we'll make a point of getting together for a ride !

Howard