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honus402
28th August 2006, 00:42
I just got the latest used oil analysis on one of our 05' XL1200Cs. It was my son's Sporty and he rides it to work every day. Almost all of the riding has been on 100 Degree days mixed highway and stop-n-go. A little over 2500 miles on the second load of Havoline 20W-50 with HD filter. With as little wear as this, why would I use anything else. I'm sold on the Havoline, a well kept secret.
UOA
Steve: You have a nice wearing Harley engine at 6724 miles. Universal averages show typical wear metals for this type of engine after 1,550 miles on the oil. Your oil was in use 2,580 miles, and we found all wear from the engine below average levels and in the correct balance to show normal mechanical parts inside. Silicon at 4 ppm shows very good air filtration. The 0.1% insolubles level indicates good oil filtration. This 20W/50 engine oil is about average viscosity for that grade and there was no gas or moisture. Check back to establish trends.

Al 4
Chrom 1
Iron 7
Coppr 3
Lead 0
Tin 0
Moly 221
Nick 0
Mang 0
Silvr 0
Titanium 0
Ka 3
Boron 174
Si 4
NA 1
Ca 2470
Magnesium 51
Phos 977
Zinc 1094
Barium 0

Viscosity 79.0,
Flash point 426
Fuel < 0.3
Insol 0.1

skratch
28th August 2006, 01:09
where did you have the analysis done, and how much did it cost?

Ghugly
28th August 2006, 03:25
Does Havoline 20W-50 stink? Just curious. I used to use SAE 30 Havoline back in the '60's in cars and it had its own "aroma." Great oil, just wondered if it still has the smell.

honus402
28th August 2006, 05:12
Ghuly,
No, it doesn't stink anymore. The Havoline of today is a different oil. It's no longer made by Texaco-Shell, it's made by Chevron who bought Texaco and the Havoline "name" about five years ago. Havoline is now made by Chevron with ISO/Syn technology. It's a "sleeper" oil.
Skach,
Blackstone Labs out of Ft. Wayne, IN.

cb4017
28th August 2006, 05:18
I discovered Havoline on another site. I'm using it in my recently converted 883R during breakin.

Just curious, is Havoline and Chevron Supreme now the same oil?

honus402
28th August 2006, 05:46
Why just during breakin? From the UOAs from HDs I've seen, it shows lower wear metals than any other oil including the mail-order syns. If you look at the VOAs of Havoline and Chevron Supreme, they're probably the same oil. Havoline seems to be easier to find here in Texas.

cb4017
28th August 2006, 06:02
Good point. I've always been a fan of synthetic oil but I may have to reconsider after reading about Havoline on BITOG.

XLXR
28th August 2006, 07:32
Now we're talking. I have been using oil analysis for a few years and as far as I am concerned if you don't use oil anlysis, you really have no idea how well your oil is protecting your engine / transmission. I personally use one of those "mail order" synthetics. I haven't had my Sportster long enough to use oil analysis, but I do have results from my V6 pick ups with 14,000 to 20,000 miles (that is not a misprint) between oil changes, (one with a very specialized filter), and up to 90,000 total miles before it was totaled. In all cases my results are very close to yours. Bigger engine, lots more miles. Are my oil and filters better than yours? Not necessarily because you can't compare apples and oranges. The quality of your air and oil filter, how hard, how far, you drive and the type of engine and it's modifications will all affect the final results. You would not expect a motor that lives on the race track to match the results of a stock motor. If we can get more guys to pay for and publish their oil analysis results, maybe we can get the oil and filter manufacturers to be honest in the performance of their products. Without oil anlysis, it is all a guessing game.

opiate9680
29th August 2006, 06:08
I just found a guy on bobistheoilguy.com that says he's had the same success with halvoline 20w50 in his harley:

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=9;t=000758

I'm runnin Syn3 now but man, if halvoline 20w50 is this good i'm definately going to try it for myself.

jms969
29th August 2006, 17:13
When I do my 5K maintenance in the next few weeks I will send a sample to Blackstone and publish the results here.

BTW using M1 Vtwin 20W-50...

JMS

:tour

PS. honus your moly content is VERY high!!! Watch for any clutch slippage...

opiate9680
29th August 2006, 17:16
Cool beans man, cant wait to see them!

honus402
30th August 2006, 03:00
The clutch doesn't share the engine oil. There are two kinds of moly and the kind of moly in Havoline or Mobil 1 won't hurt a clutch even if you did. It's the other "friction modifiers" in SM car oils that mess with wet clutches. Run engine oil in your engine and transmission/gear oils in your transmission. Simple.

jms969
30th August 2006, 16:18
The clutch doesn't share the engine oil. There are two kinds of moly and the kind of moly in Havoline or Mobil 1 won't hurt a clutch even if you did. It's the other "friction modifiers" in SM car oils that mess with wet clutches. Run engine oil in your engine and transmission/gear oils in your transmission. Simple.

What oil are you running in your primary/tranny? I assumed that it was the same Havoline oil in both holes, therefore the moly comment.

And no there is only ONE kind of moly and it is the primary friction modifier in auto oils and should not be used in wet clutch applications e.g., M1 15W-50 is a great choice for the engine oil but a poor choice for the primary/tranny application. For the primary/tranny if you were using M1 you should use Vtwin 20W-50 as it has no moly...

Peace,

JMS

:banana

opiate9680
30th August 2006, 18:11
Here JMS, check out these links:
http://63.240.161.99:8080/bitog/voalibrary/mobil-1-ep-15w50.jpg
http://63.240.161.99:8080/bitog/voalibrary/mobil-1-v-twin-20w50.jpg

According to these, the Mobil vtwin actually has more moly in it than the 15w50. Like Honus, i've heard that there are two different types of Moly and the kind used in engine oils are not harmful to wet clutches. BUT then again, i've heard of people burning through clutches while using oils rich in Moly. BUT then again, improper adjustment of the clutch was more to blame than the moly oil bath in all cases.

I dont wanna play that game, so i'll trust the moco's advice on motor oil in the engine and formula+ or gear oil in the tranny.

jms969
30th August 2006, 21:53
Here JMS, check out these links:
http://63.240.161.99:8080/bitog/voalibrary/mobil-1-ep-15w50.jpg
http://63.240.161.99:8080/bitog/voalibrary/mobil-1-v-twin-20w50.jpg

According to these, the Mobil vtwin actually has more moly in it than the 15w50. Like Honus, i've heard that there are two different types of Moly and the kind used in engine oils are not harmful to wet clutches. BUT then again, i've heard of people burning through clutches while using oils rich in Moly. BUT then again, improper adjustment of the clutch was more to blame than the moly oil bath in all cases.

I dont wanna play that game, so i'll trust the moco's advice on motor oil in the engine and formula+ or gear oil in the tranny.

If you look at a fresh sample of M1 VTwin it has (0) zero moly in it the information in the link that you provided is incorrect. (They inadvertently tested an M1 auto oil)

The following show that the moly content is zero.

http://www.sportrider.com/tech/146_0310_oil/

One one of Amsoil sites it also bears out this fact...

The following is a snippet from the Sport Rider oil test

"Moly is often referred to as a friction modifier, but it is actually a solid metal dispersed in some oils. Because it has such a high melting temperature (4730 F versus 2795 F for iron), it works great as a high-temperature, high-pressure antiwear agent. Some claim that because moly is so slick, it can cause clutch slippage. In fact, some motorcycle manufacturers specify oil without moly due to this problem. The moly issue is such that Honda offers its HP4 both with and without it. Looking at the moly graph data, however, shows that even Honda's "moly-free" product contains 71 ppm. Many of the products contain less than five ppm of moly, which is the threshold measurement on this test (meaning any amount less than five ppm will not be detected). Both Torco oils contain a significant dose of moly, while the Maxum Ultra and Motul 300V Factory contain far less. The Mobil 1 automotive oil contains 92 ppm, while the MX4T motorcycle-specific version has an undetectable amount. Only six of the 19 motorcycle oils we tested use moly at all. Those that do, however, average 298 ppm. Considering that many oils contain five ppm or less, 298 ppm is a significant dose."

Hope this helps

Cheers,

JMS

:D

opiate9680
31st August 2006, 00:03
I didnt know that they had mistaken an automotive oil for m1 vtwin. I guess ya cant believe everything you read on the internet! i guess that means that richard simmons isnt really jesus christ in disguise hahaj/k.

jms969
31st August 2006, 06:54
I didnt know that they had mistaken an automotive oil for m1 vtwin. I guess ya cant believe everything you read on the internet! i guess that means that richard simmons isnt really jesus christ in disguise hahaj/k.

hahahahahahahaha :banapart

honus402
4th September 2006, 02:54
There are different types of Moly used in oil. The organic Moly used in most oils never comes out of suspension, won't be trapped in a filter and is not used as a friction modifier. It's used as an anti-wear additive and not as a friction modifier. The common Moly dri lube will not stay in suspension, is commonly used in grease and could be trapped in the pores of the clutch plates causing slippage.
Two kinds of Moly with two different purposes.
The Moly used in Honda M/C oils, Havoline, Chevron, Mobil 1 etc will not cause clutch slippage.

jms969
4th September 2006, 03:15
There are different types of Moly used in oil. The organic Moly used in most oils never comes out of suspension, won't be trapped in a filter and is not used as a friction modifier. It's used as an anti-wear additive and not as a friction modifier. The common Moly dri lube will not stay in suspension, is commonly used in grease and could be trapped in the pores of the clutch plates causing slippage.
Two kinds of Moly with two different purposes.
The Moly used in Honda M/C oils, Havoline, Chevron, Mobil 1 etc will not cause clutch slippage.

Only ONE type of moly (many formulations but moly is moly) and yes it can and does cause clutch slippage...

chris ward
26th May 2007, 23:32
Uh dumb question is this oil a motorcycle specific oil or just Havoline oil?:doh

Gary7
26th May 2007, 23:56
Uh dumb question is this oil a motorcycle specific oil or just Havoline oil?:doh

Just regular Havoline. A lot of people use this in Harleys with good results. Take a look at the motorcycle UOA section over at BITOG.

I put Rotella T in mine at the first oil change and I'm about to change it out with right at 4500 miles on it. I'll post the UOA when I get the results back.

I'm putting in Penn-Grade 1 20w50 by Brad Penn. Brad Penn oils are made in what used to be the Kendall refinery in Bradford, Penn. Back in the late 90s Witco sold the Kendall brand name to Phillips and sold the refinery to the American Refinery Group. Kendall is just a brand name of ConnocoPhillips now. The Brad Penn oils are essentially updated versions of the various Kendall formulas that ARG acquired when they bought the operation. The Penn-Grade 1 is the successor to Kendall's GT-1 racing oil, which I used to use in my cars back in the 70s and 80s. Great oil.

http://www.bradpennracing.com/images/bottle3.gif

jborlace883
27th May 2007, 01:59
So this Havoline is not motorcycle oil?Just regular auto oil?I may try it.I use Amsoil now.

brucelee
27th May 2007, 04:23
Havoline is a very good oil.

I use Red Line, also very good.

sportysrock
27th May 2007, 06:19
Umm, no thanks, I'm sticking with premium full synthetic oil in mine. It is never seeing synthetic blends, or regular dino oil again - auto OR mc type.

I do my own maintenence and less of it because of the premium full synthetic oil which means less waste, and/or more time riding w/out wrenching. :tour

Gary7
27th May 2007, 15:25
Umm, no thanks, I'm sticking with premium full synthetic oil in mine. It is never seeing synthetic blends, or regular dino oil again - auto OR mc type.

I do my own maintenence and less of it because of the premium full synthetic oil which means less waste, and/or more time riding w/out wrenching. :tour

What a totally unbiased opinion...coming from an Amsoil dealer. :rolleyes:

:laugh

Gone
27th May 2007, 16:19
What a totally unbiased opinion...coming from an Amsoil dealer. :rolleyes:

:laugh


Isn't everybody Amsoil dealer?:whisper