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View Full Version : Who in the U.S. has ordered an XR?


XR1200Sportster
1st December 2008, 21:14
As the title states. Just curious to see how many pre-orders the dealerships get. What number are you in line. Im #170

Takingabreak
1st December 2008, 21:17
I can only wish I was one of the luck 750, for now, I can only dream of one.

rhinoWErX
1st December 2008, 21:45
I ordered mine last week - not sure what number I am, don't really care, so long as one of them has my name on it :D

Bob F
1st December 2008, 21:46
What number are you in line. Im #170

Congrats. Do you live on a part of the planet that stays warm or are you headed into winter? Either way keep us updated and let's see some pics when you get it.

bigjnsa
1st December 2008, 21:51
If they made it for a us larger riders, I'd order one, but alas being big boned sucks in the motorcycling world.

Jimbos883
1st December 2008, 21:59
Stopped by the local dealer Saturday to inquire about the XR1200. Here's what they told me.

The MOCO has 750 bikes for immediate delievery, if I understand stood him correctly they are all orange in color and those 750 have to have a buyer's / customer's name attached to it. That's the only way the dealer will get one at this time, and the dealer is charged an additional fee if that bike is not delievered to the person that ordered it. That's what my dealer told me.

Then at a later date, sometime after the first of the year, each dealer will have one bike allotted to them which can be considered ordered as "stock" or a showroom bike. It doesn't need to be ordered for a customer. Then; if they wish; the dealer can order a third bike again for stock.

The bike will available in three colors, orange, black and deimen silver. The black bike comes in at the $10,000 and something figure the other two colors are about $200 more.

I'm just trying to figure out how to talk the wife into this one.

XR1200Sportster
1st December 2008, 22:01
Bob F, I am actually in the same city as you, Pittsburgh. I work down at Steel City in the parts dept. I got heated gloves a few months back and they work wonders for the cold. As long as it is mid 30s or higher, I will usually ride. Provided the roads arent covered in snow...

Bob F
1st December 2008, 23:00
My doctor's office is at the corner of Race Track Road and Rt 19. His driveway connects with your shop. I see your new to this forum, you're going to like it. Lots of info here.

I see a lot of PCIIIs on the shelf behind the parts counter and the shop's ad for Dyno tuning. Do you have any idea how much a baseline pull is?

Here's my Sporty, the first photo is what it looks like now, the second (2 years ago) shows my TourPak and windshield which I normally have on:

http://xlforum.net/photopost/data/500/medium/061308_right.jpg

http://xlforum.net/photopost/data/500/medium/020807_130.jpg

XR1200Sportster
1st December 2008, 23:22
Yeah, we sold all but one of those PCIII. Only one left is for an 06 Dyna. I will have to see about the dyno prices on Wednesday. Its a good question as I havent really had a bike I needed to put on, so I never bothered to find out. I might put the XR on just to see where they are, out of curiousity.

Bob F
1st December 2008, 23:59
I might put the XR on just to see where they are, out of curiousity.

When you do your baseline post it here. I'm sure many of us are curious. Have a delivery date yet?

Midas
2nd December 2008, 00:29
If they made it for a us larger riders, I'd order one, but alas being big boned sucks in the motorcycling world.
If ya got an 883, this thing is way bigger than that.
I'm 6'3" and 235lbs and i'm fine with it.....Now you got no excuse.:smoke

XR1200Sportster
2nd December 2008, 01:50
If they made it for a us larger riders, I'd order one, but alas being big boned sucks in the motorcycling world.

Midas is right, the XR IS bigger. I may not have ridden the bike yet, but climbed all over the ones up at HDU school in Milwaukee. I had an 06 XL883, these are much roomier.

I absolutely will post the printout of the baseline here. A good time will be had by all...

josephthreedogs
2nd December 2008, 20:01
Got mine on order, just what I need another bike.

triumph900
2nd December 2008, 22:50
195/750. Supposed to ship on 12/09. Just need to find the $$!

XLFREAK
3rd December 2008, 03:56
I'm #319. Ordered mine from Whitt's HD in Manassas, VA. Now I have to sell my Ducati Sport 1000 to help pay for it.

dirt rider
3rd December 2008, 04:12
If ya got an 883, this thing is way bigger than that.
I'm 6'3" and 235lbs and i'm fine with it.....Now you got no excuse.:smoke

I'm the same height and am glad to hear that. I've lived with my 05 XL1200R even though it's cramped. Glad now I didn't waste the money on a raised seat. The new XR won't be available in Canada until after the end of February and I can't put a deposit on it for a few more days as they still don't even have a firm price. I'm also really happy the dealer who had the last 06 Street Rod back in June wanted a $2000.00 premium for it because it was the last one. Needless to say I didn't buy it.

Furyus
3rd December 2008, 04:30
Number 325. Not sure when it will be here. Not going to be a trophy; I plan on beating the crap out of it. Take the last ride on my FXD tomorrow. Most everyone one I work with can't believe I'm trading my Super Glide for, yes, a "girls bike," but I just quote 'em the old VROD advertisement "Its all fun and games until someone gets smoked." They all ride Road Sofas at parade speed anyway, so what would you expect?

I don't think I've ever been as excited about a motorcycle as I am about the XR1200, and I've had twenty-some bikes over the last thirty-some years.

furyus

sportexan
3rd December 2008, 04:43
Ordered mine Friday, guess I'll have to find out about my number.

When I first saw the concept I thought "Wow, that's the only thing that would make me get rid of my Sportster".

So now I'll be trying to sell a Sporty and a Buell before the XR gets here!

Tin Man 2
3rd December 2008, 15:49
Number 325. Not sure when it will be here. Not going to be a trophy; I plan on beating the crap out of it. Take the last ride on my FXD tomorrow. Most everyone one I work with can't believe I'm trading my Super Glide for, yes, a "girls bike," but I just quote 'em the old VROD advertisement "Its all fun and games until someone gets smoked." They all ride Road Sofas at parade speed anyway, so what would you expect?

I don't think I've ever been as excited about a motorcycle as I am about the XR1200, and I've had twenty-some bikes over the last thirty-some years.

furyus Mr Furyus,I went through the same thing,My budies thought I was crazy when I traded my 05 Dyna for my new Sporty ! I have never regreted it, just wish I bought the Sporty in the first place. :doh

XR1200Sportster
3rd December 2008, 16:14
LOL I thought I was the only one ridding myself of my Dyna before I got my XR. And yes, I got it from most of the mechanics. 'Why a girls bike?' !!!! em. They dont understand..........yet!

Hondo Cat
3rd December 2008, 17:34
LOL I thought I was the only one ridding myself of my Dyna before I got my XR. And yes, I got it from most of the mechanics. 'Why a girls bike?' !!!! em. They dont understand..........yet!

I suspect it has to do with cubic inches. In their eyes the more the cubic inches, the more manly a bike is, regardless of performance. Sounds to me like a ignorant form of phallic worship.

sportexan
3rd December 2008, 18:42
Sounds to me like a ignorant form of phallic worship.

:cheers

That's funny!

I'm order #278. I wonder if all 750 will go?

P.S. Kev, this is Chirpy from CW! How ya doin?

Moved On / My Own Choice
3rd December 2008, 18:51
P.S. Kev, this is Chirpy from CW! How ya doin?

LOL - I recognized the bike -

I'm just peachy - how bout you?

Kev

XLFREAK
3rd December 2008, 19:32
I suspect it has to do with cubic inches. In their eyes the more the cubic inches, the more manly a bike is, regardless of performance. Sounds to me like a ignorant form of phallic worship.

I learned long ago that it's not the size that matters, but the performance.






And before ANY of you think of it the wrong way, my BMW K1200S has 167 hp, 96 ft/lbs of torque, will do 0-60 in under 3 seconds, 75 mph in FIRST gear and top out around 170 mph. Not bad for "just" a 1200 cc engine.:)

Midas
3rd December 2008, 19:52
I learned long ago that it's not the size that matters, but the performance.






And before ANY of you think of it the wrong way, my BMW K1200S has 167 hp, 96 ft/lbs of torque, will do 0-60 in under 3 seconds, 75 mph in FIRST gear and top out around 170 mph. Not bad for "just" a 1200 cc engine.:)

If you are so impressed with performance why did you buy an XR?

XLFREAK
3rd December 2008, 20:23
Good question with a realtively simple explanation. The XR will be used for weekend riding for my wife. We don't go fast and so a bike with a more relaxed riding position is good, but I don't like the normal cruiser riding position. And I still want something with enough power, handling and braking to help out in an emergency. The XR fit that bill.

The BMW is a great highway bike and that's where I do most of commuting, but it's not too great for lower speeds. That's where the XR comes in. Different horses for different courses.

dirt rider
3rd December 2008, 20:29
I learned long ago that it's not the size that matters, but the performance




And before ANY of you think of it the wrong way, my BMW K1200S has 167 hp, 96 ft/lbs of torque, will do 0-60 in under 3 seconds, 75 mph in FIRST gear and top out around 170 mph. Not bad for "just" a 1200 cc engine.:)

If you are so impressed with performance why did you buy an XR?

I'm guessing it will cost $5000 to $6ooo to trade up. I'm also guessing it's close to $3000 to put good forks and shocks on my 05 XL1200R. No contest. My dirt bike, 07 Husky 510TE, has 501cc.,65 horsepower, and runs the quarter in the low 12's, but my Sporty is a much better road bike. Faster isn't always better.

Erik
3rd December 2008, 20:42
Hondo Cat : I suspect it has to do with cubic inches. In their eyes the more the cubic inches, the more manly a bike is, regardless of performance. Sounds to me like a ignorant form of phallic worship.

Ron P : I learned long ago that it's not the size that matters, but the performance.

:laugh

To top it off :

It's not the size of the boat, but the rhythm of the ocean that matters !! :D

Moved On / My Own Choice
3rd December 2008, 20:49
:laugh

To top it off :

It's not the size of the boat, but the rhythm of the ocean that matters !! :D

No, but I guess that's what you guys with small boats keep telling yourself....

XLFREAK
3rd December 2008, 20:59
Okaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy............................ ......

Midas
3rd December 2008, 21:20
Good question with a realtively simple explanation. The XR will be used for weekend riding for my wife. We don't go fast and so a bike with a more relaxed riding position is good, but I don't like the normal cruiser riding position. And I still want something with enough power, handling and braking to help out in an emergency. The XR fit that bill.

The BMW is a great highway bike and that's where I do most of commuting, but it's not too great for lower speeds. That's where the XR comes in. Different horses for different courses.
Cant say i really get where you are coming from.
I swapped a Triumph Rocket 111 for the XR, quite simply because it just didnt have enough character and i found it pretty boring. 145 ft/lb and 140bhp, just to clinical.
I also have a 2000 Softail that i have tuned the arse out of for long trips.
I have ridden a BMW K1200s, but again i got that clinical vibe. I have been riding for 37 years always owned Brits and Harley's, rode a hell of a lot of jap bikes over the years and i find them all soulless and without character.
Horses for courses i suppose!

XLFREAK
3rd December 2008, 21:29
Yeah, BMW's can be a bit clinical, but I just chalk it up to German engineering. They seem to put more emphasis on function and less on "character", so you get a bike that performs well without too much drama. I actually like that in BMW.

It's practical because the torque lets me maneuver in traffic a bit aince I'm running between 70-80 mph on the highways. A quick twist of the throttle lets me gain enough speed to make a quick pass without downshifting. And the BMW's rock solid at highway speed.

But for weekend riding, I like a little "character" with a touch of performance. That's where the XR1200 comes in. I can cruise it yet it will move when I want it.

sportexan
3rd December 2008, 22:04
LOL - I recognized the bike -

I'm just peachy - how bout you?

Kev

Yeah, I kinda figured you would ;)

I'm good, still kinda sad about letting the Sporty go...but I think it will be worth it!

Moved On / My Own Choice
3rd December 2008, 22:08
Yeah, I kinda figured you would ;)

I'm good, still kinda sad about letting the Sporty go...but I think it will be worth it!

Wish I was in a position to make an offer on the Sporty...

I gotta feeling though that you'll get over the loss, once you get your XR...

XLFREAK
4th December 2008, 17:00
Anyone have an idea where Harley is on the preorder count? Looks like they were around the 325 mark as of Tuesday night.

Anyone think HD might back out if there aren't enough preorders and ship the US allocation overseas?

Moved On / My Own Choice
4th December 2008, 17:03
Anyone have an idea where Harley is on the preorder count? Looks like they were around the 325 mark as of Tuesday night.

Anyone think HD might back out if there aren't enough preorders and ship the US allocation overseas?

Actually, I'm sure they're past the 325 mark - only a small percentage (by the looks of it like 1% or so) of the buyers come here to report.

And no, I don't think that they could or would change their minds now.

Of course, they might not make it a regular model if they don't get enough orders this time out.

But that just makes anyone who gets one even happier... cause long term it COULD be worth something (like in 20 years).

XLFREAK
4th December 2008, 17:22
So yu think HD would honor this run and then drop it if there's not enough demand? That would be a viable scenario and yes, it would make those on the road potentially more valuable in the future. But's not why I'm buying it; I want to ride it!

It is a pretty good move on HD's part to see how much of an interest there really is fot the XR1200. I know many of the motorcycle mags have clamored for it and it seems like a lot of online discussion supports HD's decision. So now it's time for the market to put up or shut up.

OmegaRunner
4th December 2008, 17:49
I hope it hangs around at least for 2009. I won't be able to buy until probably late summer or early fall. I am not 100% sure its the next bike yet, but right now its at the top of my short list. I still want to see one up close and test ride it before I make that call.

XLFREAK
4th December 2008, 20:28
I would imagine we'll hear how well the initial order did sometime after the first batch is shipped. My dealer told me that the preordered bikes willl be shipped first and then dealers without preorders will be allocated one bike each. I'd consider HD's call a success if all the preorders are gone by 12/15 and failing that, all the allocations are sold in early 2009.

caveplay
4th December 2008, 20:41
I think I'm going to wait till I find a 2 or 3 year leftover on the floor or a used one for about 6-7 K

Also if you are looking for a new 2006 black street rod #1 H&D in PA has one for
11K with 0 miles

dirt rider
4th December 2008, 21:14
I think I'm going to wait till I find a 2 or 3 year leftover on the floor or a used one for about 6-7 K

Also if you are looking for a new 2006 black street rod #1 H&D in PA has one for
11K with 0 miles

Thanks for that info. It's tempting, but I would prefer the XR1200 if I can get one. The dealer in Toronto who had one last June wanted $17K plus crating charges and shipping to Vancouver.

Furyus
5th December 2008, 04:30
I know many of the motorcycle mags have clamored for it and it seems like a lot of online discussion supports HD's decision. So now it's time for the market to put up or shut up.

I've put my money where my mouth is (I'm #325). Reminds my of what is about to become my second most favorite motorcycle, the 1982 Yamaha XJ650RJ Seca. All the mags at the time (no Internets, imagine!) demanded that Yamaha bring the Euro/Asia-only bike to the States, certain it would be a hit. Bought mine for $2600 new in the fall of '83, a year and a half after it had arrived at the dealer. Excellent motorcycle; put over 100,000 miles on her. Personally, I wouldn't mind the exclusivity of a discontinued XR1200, but I hope the bike is a great success for Harley-Davidson.

I'm buying mine to ride, too. It, and we, are going to be dust someday.

furyus

Dallara
5th December 2008, 10:05
Hi, Folks! :)

My first post here...

I've got one coming. #260 I think. And just heard from my dealer yesterday about shipping and delivery date...

According to the info they just received mine will be shipped on Dec. 11th and at the dealer by Dec. 19th.

Mine will be orange.

Thanks!

Dallara

Bob F
5th December 2008, 13:10
Hello Dallara from Pittsburgh and welcome to the XLForum.

wade1171
5th December 2008, 14:13
I stopped by the dealer the other day and asked if there were many people coming in and asking about it. They said only a few I then asked if anyone ordered one and they said no.

dirt rider
6th December 2008, 03:51
Two of the dealers I've requested a price from haven't gotten back to me yet. A third is no longer a H.D. dealer (grapevine says, too small, didn't sell enough), the fourth gave the list and refused a discount after I explained to the salesperson that It was indeed a XR that I wanted, and no I wasn't mistaken about the model name and number. I got an answer on the e-mail request to another city that their allotment was spoken for and they would let me know if more became available. I'll wait till spring if that's what happens but not going to pay list in this economy. I don't expect a big discount but if they don't give something. there must be some price fixing going on. I'm in Vancouver, B.C.

Furyus
6th December 2008, 04:03
I don't expect a big discount but if they don't give something. there must be some price fixing going on. I'm in Vancouver, B.C.

I work at a fairly large Harley-Davidson dealership. You can get a discount on just about any bike in the shop right now, what with this economy and a potentially brutal winter ahead. But I wouldn't expect a nickel off full pop on a XR1200, at least until maybe next summer. It isn't like you're trying to buy an 883 Low, of which we have plenty. This is an XR. We're only getting four. Maybe. Heck, I lost money buying mine by trading in a 2008 FXD I had impatiently bought thinking the XR was a year or two away. But its just money. Sounds like you'd rather have a couple hundred bucks more than you'd like to have an XR, which is your right. Me? Shoot, I'm gettin' old, gimme the bike.

furyus

dirt rider
6th December 2008, 04:18
I was told the same thing when I bought my 05 XL1200R, but got it for $11,800 when the list was $13,200 and last year got my daughter a NEW 05 883 custom for $7,000 when new 07's were listed at $13,400. One of the dealers has told me he needs to find his cost before he can quote, and with the rollercoaster ride of the Canadian dollar recently, I'm sure there are other problems there. The value of our money has changed over 30% in just a few months and the idiots in Ottawa aren't helping with all their games. I'll let you know when I find out and lets remember, there's nothing wrong with my present Sporty while it's so cold out. I am old too, having the money to do some fun things seems to be the only compensation.

Furyus
6th December 2008, 04:38
I was told the same thing when I bought my 05 XL1200R, but got it for $11,800 when the list was $13,200 and last year got my daughter a NEW 05 883 custom for $7,000 when new 07's were listed at $13,400. One of the dealers has told me he needs to find his cost before he can quote, and with the rollercoaster ride of the Canadian dollar recently, I'm sure there are other problems there. The value of our money has changed over 30% in just a few months and the idiots in Ottawa aren't helping with all their games. I'll let you know when I find out and lets remember, there's nothing wrong with my present Sporty while it's so cold out. I am old too, having the money to do some fun things seems to be the only compensation.

Sorry to hear you have idiots in Ottowa. We're awash with them here 10 miles from the US capitol. I had even thought of moving to Canada as I'm first generation American on my mother's side, who is from New Brunswick. Sounds like there is no escape.

I don't think there will be much wheelin' and dealin' with XR's simply because of their exclusivity. At least not this year. My prediction is that H-D is only going to produce them for a year or two anyway, at least for North American consumption. Maybe an upgraded 1200R based on some of the XR features next year or 2011, but I doubt XR1200's are going to be the standard Sporty from here on out. Ergo, expect to pay sticker for a while if not for good.

furyus

hawk mechanic
6th December 2008, 16:03
Hey Kev, if you wanna touch one, you could come over to Brian's. They have one on the floor that I looked at, that was only after I put $100 down over the phone so that they would hold it for me. I probably take delivery of it next week.

Joe

XR1200Sportster
6th December 2008, 17:23
Hey Kev, if you wanna touch one, you could come over to Brian's. They have one on the floor that I looked at, that was only after I put $100 down over the phone so that they would hold it for me. I probably take delivery of it next week.

LOL WTF!! Im thinkin they forgot about me. Hopefully Ill see it Monday...

ww111
6th December 2008, 22:50
Put a deposit Down on mine Yesterday (12-5-08) and picked it up today!!!! (12-6-08)!!!
Woo hooo!

scouts
6th December 2008, 23:04
Found this on ebay, exhaust (Italian) for the xr1200.
First link post, this site is different from my usual............(Indian forums)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Harley-Davidson-XR1200-XR-1200-GPR-Exhaust-Race-Slipon_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ72Q3a543Q7c66Q3 a2Q7c65Q3a12Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318Q7c301Q3a1Q7c293 Q3a2Q7c294Q3a50QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZit em370118959013QQitemZ370118959013QQptZMotorcyclesQ 5fPartsQ5fAccessories

Midas
7th December 2008, 02:46
Found this on ebay, exhaust (Italian) for the xr1200.
First link post, this site is different from my usual............(Indian forums)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Harley-Davidson-XR1200-XR-1200-GPR-Exhaust-Race-Slipon_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ72Q3a543Q7c66Q3 a2Q7c65Q3a12Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318Q7c301Q3a1Q7c293 Q3a2Q7c294Q3a50QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZit em370118959013QQitemZ370118959013QQptZMotorcyclesQ 5fPartsQ5fAccessories

Just remember this does not get rid of the CAT, to gain any performance from the exhaust the CAT must go.
(Saying that i dont know if US spec bikes have the CAT fitted)

Moved On / My Own Choice
7th December 2008, 19:47
Hey Kev, if you wanna touch one, you could come over to Brian's. They have one on the floor that I looked at, that was only after I put $100 down over the phone so that they would hold it for me. I probably take delivery of it next week.

Joe

Shit, wish I had the time to run out there - but I guess I'll see one soon enough. ;)

Congrats BTW

XLFREAK
8th December 2008, 02:05
I found out from my dealer that mine will be shipped 12/15 and I should see it before Christmas.

vecchio lupo
10th December 2008, 21:47
I have number 124 according to my dealer. I still can't get used to having a dealer, I've been a dedicated Moto Guzzi loner for 20 years. I have not owned a Harley since AMF was the parent company. While at the Moto GP in Indy, I ran into Mr. Willie G, and I told him if he brought this bike to America, I'd buy one, so it was put up or shut up for me. I eagerly await word from my dealer that delivery is close at hand

Moved On / My Own Choice
10th December 2008, 21:53
I have number 124 according to my dealer. I still can't get used to having a dealer, I've been a dedicated Moto Guzzi loner for 20 years. I have not owned a Harley since AMF was the parent company. While at the Moto GP in Indy, I ran into Mr. Willie G, and I told him if he brought this bike to America, I'd buy one, so it was put up or shut up for me. I eagerly await word from my dealer that delivery is close at hand

LOL a dealer - what's that - mine are MPH in Houston and Speaker's in Steubenville.

Of course my needy wife has one on each block for her 1200L... ;)

Welcome to the board!

Kev

vecchio lupo
11th December 2008, 00:41
Thanks Kev, I'm glad to be here, I've been on ADV, V11 and Soviet Steeds (Yeah I got a URAL, how stupid am I?) for some time, discovered you guys while trolling for info on the XR.
My H-D attitude changed when I saw a Buell S3T (I think) at Brians HD in Langhorne PA. My Dad bought his Ultra Classic there. Thats when I realized that HD didnt mean Electro Glide in Blue.

I'm am stoked to be in the HD world, it's new and a little wierd.

ww111
11th December 2008, 00:57
I'm am stoked to be in the HD world, it's new and a little wierd.

Don't underestimate the HD World... It's VERY weird. I have a V-rod and might as well have gotten a Goldwing from the reaction of the "Air"Heads. I have 10 miles on the XR and I'm sure it'll stay that way for months, but I cannot wait for the warm weather. If anyone here makes it to the middle of New York State look me up.

Hondo Cat
11th December 2008, 01:13
Don't underestimate the HD World... It's VERY weird. I have a V-rod and might as well have gotten a Goldwing from the reaction of the "Air"Heads. I have 10 miles on the XR and I'm sure it'll stay that way for months, but I cannot wait for the warm weather. If anyone here makes it to the middle of New York State look me up.

Not yet owned a Harley. I could've bought a Sportster when I bought my, then new, '05 Triumph Speedmaster but I didn't want to appear to be a "biker" with the image that goes with it. When the XR 1200 was announced I knew that one day I could actually buy a Harley. Now, when it is finally available stateside, I'm not in the position financially to lay money down on one. I still need to pay down my Speedy before I can even think of putting it on the market.

Congrats, on your new XR! From all accounts of those who now own one, it will be a "fun" bike to ride. Something you can ride to its limits and still not be alot of work to ride and get pleasure from. I think the word is SPORTY.

cybrdyke
11th December 2008, 01:37
I ordered mine last week from South East Harley in Cleveland. They said that I was their first order for one. I should see it in a couple of weeks, although we're going to be frozen here until Spring, so it will just stay at the dealer til then. I'm jealous of you that have already had a chance to ride yours. I cant wait!!!
BTW...my first post. Been reading for a few days now. Love the forum!

markmc
11th December 2008, 02:27
Hey Cybrdyke, did they let you know what # you were of the 750?

cybrdyke
11th December 2008, 02:36
No. I didn't know they were doing that, so I didn't ask. They said that they had 3 or 4 guys tell them that they wanted one, but i was the first with the deposit. If I talk to them, I'll ask & post it.
Just happy to have one!!

Moved On / My Own Choice
11th December 2008, 15:34
My H-D attitude changed when I saw a Buell S3T (I think) at Brians HD in Langhorne PA. My Dad bought his Ultra Classic there. Thats when I realized that HD didnt mean Electro Glide in Blue.


Aw hell are you local???

We're in Kennett Square...

Doug Mackenzie
11th December 2008, 18:22
Ordered mine on Dec 4 and my oreder # is 365. The salesman told me that their dealership had sold 2 more the following weekend and that about 400 were now sold.

Moved On / My Own Choice
11th December 2008, 18:39
Ordered mine on Dec 4 and my oreder # is 365. The salesman told me that their dealership had sold 2 more the following weekend and that about 400 were now sold.

AWESOME - CONGRATS!!!

and welcome to the board...

Kev

XLFREAK
11th December 2008, 19:48
Looks like the orders are slowing down if there about 325 on Tuesday night. Anyone get the impression that all 750 won't get pre-ordered?

Moved On / My Own Choice
11th December 2008, 19:54
Looks like the orders are slowing down if there about 325 on Tuesday night. Anyone get the impression that all 750 won't get pre-ordered?

:dunno - last post said 400 - that's 400 in two weeks? I dunno... :dunno

XR1200Sportster
11th December 2008, 20:12
I would say HD is doing pretty good considering the economy and the lack of advertising so far.

Hondo Cat
11th December 2008, 21:14
I'm confused. Are the ALL of the 750 orange? Or, does the 750 include the pewter and blacks that become available after the first of the year?

Perhaps not EVERYONE wants an orange one?

Moved On / My Own Choice
11th December 2008, 21:19
I'm confused. Are the ALL of the 750 orange? Or, does the 750 include the pewter and blacks that become available after the first of the year?


What's confusing? Yes, the initial reports were very clear in this matter, all Orange without security for the first 750...

Hondo Cat
11th December 2008, 21:27
What's confusing? Yes, the initial reports were very clear in this matter, all Orange without security for the first 750...

Thanks, Kev.

But for me, unless you purchase it as somekind of investment, I wouldn't want an orange one. I wouldn't have an orange one. Personal choice.........

Perhaps there are others like me; I don't know. According to the email newsletter from my local dealer, pre-orders run from 1 December 2008 and ends 15 December 2008.

It will surprise me if ALL 750 orange units are pre-ordered by 15 December 2008 and sold!

dirt rider
11th December 2008, 21:46
I work at a fairly large Harley-Davidson dealership. You can get a discount on just about any bike in the shop right now, what with this economy and a potentially brutal winter ahead. But I wouldn't expect a nickel off full pop on a XR1200, at least until maybe next summer. It isn't like you're trying to buy an 883 Low, of which we have plenty. This is an XR. We're only getting four. Maybe. Heck, I lost money buying mine by trading in a 2008 FXD I had impatiently bought thinking the XR was a year or two away. But its just money. Sounds like you'd rather have a couple hundred bucks more than you'd like to have an XR, which is your right. Me? Shoot, I'm gettin' old, gimme the bike.

furyus

Well I finally got a price for an XR1200 here in Vancouver, B.C. I don't think it's fair to post it here, but you guys were right, it's not much below list and I can save $1000 Canadian, or more, by buying one just forty miles away in Washington and importing it with the current exchange rates and the U.S. list price. It also won't be available until April or May. If the factory or distributor want to play games, I':ll wait for awhile. Good riding season is still nearly three months away. Well the sun is shining here, so I'm going for a ride before I have to switch my insurance to the bike with snow tires.:D

cybrdyke
11th December 2008, 22:30
My dealer told me this morning that Harley has sold 388 so far.

josephthreedogs
11th December 2008, 22:45
Looks like the orders are slowing down if there about 325 on Tuesday night. Anyone get the impression that all 750 won't get pre-ordered?

I only mentioned that I ordered one, but my dealer has taken orders on four others.

Ralphthe3rd
12th December 2008, 00:28
Unless you are a US Citizen residing in Vancouiver, I don't believe a Canadian can import a brand NEW bike from even just across the border. I know you can buy a used bike - but probably not a Brand NEW one. Time to go dicker with Trev Deeley again....

Well I finally got a price for an XR1200 here in Vancouver, B.C. I don't think it's fair to post it here, but you guys were right, it's not much below list and I can save $1000 Canadian, or more, by buying one just forty miles away in Washington and importing it with the current exchange rates and the U.S. list price. It also won't be available until April or May. If the factory or distributor want to play games, I':ll wait for awhile. Good riding season is still nearly three months away. Well the sun is shining here, so I'm going for a ride before I have to switch my insurance to the bike with snow tires.:D

XR1200Sportster
12th December 2008, 01:32
Unless you are a US Citizen residing in Vancouiver, I don't believe a Canadian can import a brand NEW bike from even just across the border. I know you can buy a used bike - but probably not a Brand NEW one. Time to go dicker with Trev Deeley again....


We seem to sell a bunch of bikes to members of the Penguins. Bunch of those guys still live up in Canada in the off season. Tyler Kennedys dad explained the ins and outs of it to me before about six months ago. Evidently you can do that.

dirt rider
12th December 2008, 02:00
Unless you are a US Citizen residing in Vancouiver, I don't believe a Canadian can import a brand NEW bike from even just across the border. I know you can buy a used bike - but probably not a Brand NEW one. Time to go dicker with Trev Deeley again....

Both of my Huskys were imported as new motorcycles and so was my son's KTM. I might have to have it inspected in the RIV program unless it's on an approved list. It may also need a provincial inspection. If I have to, I can import it as a competition model and then convert it afterwards. That's how my last Husky came in. I've actually had the most trouble bringing in a trailer with a boat I bought three years ago. And another option is to wait awhile. I'm sure the economy isn't going to get better that soon. Don't forget the Golden Rule. Those that have the gold make the rules. I have the cash and I don't NEED a new bike right now, but the KTM 950 Adventure is looking real good and I could keep my XL1200R. The only consolation to getting old is that you can afford lots of toys.:doh

dirt rider
12th December 2008, 02:02
Thanks, Kev.

But for me, unless you purchase it as somekind of investment, I wouldn't want an orange one. I wouldn't have an orange one. Personal choice.........

Perhaps there are others like me; I don't know. According to the email newsletter from my local dealer, pre-orders run from 1 December 2008 and ends 15 December 2008.

It will surprise me if ALL 750 orange units are pre-ordered by 15 December 2008 and sold!

Just hope it isn't a lemon.:rolleyes: And yes it was cold out there today.

Dallara
12th December 2008, 02:11
~


The only consolation to getting old is that you can afford lots of toys.:doh


Ain't it the truth... :D

As for the colors available - my dealer told me I could get either the all-black or the orange-and-black in this early order period, and that the pewter silver color would not be available for ordering until after January. They also said the all-black had a MSRP of $10,799.00 while the orange-and-black carried an MSRP of $11,079.00.

I wanted an orange-and-black one so it was never an issue...

Interestingly enough, according to "MotoTech" magazine over in Europe, the orange-and-black carries the lower price while to get an all-black one you have to pay a price premium - exactly the opposite of here in the states.

Don't know if it's true or not... We'll have to ask our European contributors... But that's what the mag said. I'll try and post the exact quote later.

Just FYI.

Dallara


~

Midas
12th December 2008, 02:54
It's hardly a big deal, it's only the seat base and the tank cover that are coloured. And i cant believe anyone is bothered what colour it is, i would have bought any colour.
As a matter of fact i did, i just called round until i found one and bought it, it just so happened it was Orange.:smoke

Dallara
12th December 2008, 03:58
~


It was easy for me, too... As for me it had to be orange-and-black, and that way *officially* from the factory on all the appropriate order, documents, paperwork, etc. :tour

Why?

Because that's what colors the original XR750 was, and all the factory ones built after that. I realize that may not mean much, or anything at all, to some... But it did to me. ;)

Honestly, though... Like many others here I don't think the XR1200 will sell well, much like the XLCR. It's only my opinion, but I don't think Harley-Davidson will market and promote it properly, or even to the proper demographic audience. Look at how Buell's get literally ignored in some H-D dealerships. They are shuffled to the back, with little or no advertising, and many of the H-D sales folk don't even bother to learn about them... Or apparently even want to, even if it would mean more money in their pocket from more sales. Therefore the Buell's languish on the showroom floor until finally they are marked down so low that someone finally buys one.

I have seen similar things with how H-D has handled V-Rod marketing, promotion, and sales.

For that reason I see the XR1200 as a two, maybe three, year model at most... And then it will disappear. Then one day it will develop the kind of cult following the XLCR has.

Not that I am buying mine as a collector piece. Nope, I'm gonna' ride the wheels off it if I can. There are no "museum pieces" in my collection except a couple of pretty rare vintage MX bikes. Not even my D16RR is a "display only" piece. Nope, it's a rider...

But, hey... Now that I think about it, and as inexpensive as the XR1200's are, maybe I should buy two and leave one in the crate... :D

Maybe leave it to my son, or grandson, in my will... ;) :D ;)

Just my two cents... YMMV.

Dallara



~

Hondo Cat
12th December 2008, 04:26
It's hardly a big deal, it's only the seat base and the tank cover that are coloured. And i cant believe anyone is bothered what colour it is, i would have bought any colour.
As a matter of fact i did, i just called round until i found one and bought it, it just so happened it was Orange.:smoke

I have a friend that won't ride (not just buy....ride) anything that isn't black. Must be an 'image' thing.

Color is a big deal for quite a number of people. However, if you're saying that the XR 1200 is special enough that color shouldn't matter, then I understand where you're coming from, especially considering their limited supply.

dirt rider
12th December 2008, 07:21
I have a friend that won't ride (not just buy....ride) anything that isn't black. Must be an 'image' thing.

Color is a big deal for quite a number of people. However, if you're saying that the XR 1200 is special enough that color shouldn't matter, then I understand where you're coming from, especially considering their limited supply.

The supply is only limited until everone who wants one has theirs. Don't forget the basic rule of economics. I doubt the supply will be limited next spring unless the demand is very high, and for that we will have to wait to see. I'm betting there will be enough to go around, more or less.

Dallara
12th December 2008, 08:30
~

The supply is only limited until everone who wants one has theirs. Don't forget the basic rule of economics. I doubt the supply will be limited next spring unless the demand is very high, and for that we will have to wait to see. I'm betting there will be enough to go around, more or less.



Personally I think you are exactly right, and I totally agree. I tried to say that myself, but I guess I didn't get it across very well... :o

These first ones will be in limited supply, ala' the XLCR, and then they will offer them to anybody and everybody as a regular production model. After all, they have been cranking them out for Europe for some time now, right? ;)

Then, when just about every dealer has one sitting on their showroom, languishing with dust all over it... And H-D has a bunch sitting in their warehouses doing the same because they had already saturated the market that didn't require any marketing or promotion... That's when they'll chop the prices, move all of them they can, shuttle the rest to other countries, and drop the model quietly...

Just like the XLCR, and the XL1200R.

Then one day down the road a good ways, when all the other people who actually wanted an XR1200 (or XLCR), but for whatever reason didn't buy one, start pulling out their wallets and looking for prime used examples - and a "cult following" is formed, again just like the XLCR.

Again, just my two cents... YMMV. :)

Dallara




~

cybrdyke
12th December 2008, 14:11
god, could you BE more cynical?? That amount of hate takes up Waaaay to much energy. Couldn't you put that to better use?

Dallara
12th December 2008, 15:58
~

god, could you BE more cynical?? That amount of hate takes up Waaaay to much energy. Couldn't you put that to better use?



Hate???

What are you talking about???

I don't "hate" H-D in the slightest. In fact, I am ecstatic and incredible pleased with them that they are producing the XR1200... So much so that I bought one.

I'm only dealing in realities here given past history.

What happened to the XLCR? Do you know?

What happened to the XR1000? Do you know?

What happened to the XL1200R? Do you know?

Perhaps you can tell us all what happened to those models - all bearing some similarities with the new XR1200 - and why it happened, okay?

Nothing would make me happier than if H-D sold trainloads of the XR1200's and it continued on in the model line-up from now until pigs fly. I hope it stay son and gets further developed, improved, and perhaps even launches and even edgier and higher performance series of XR bikes. But that's not what has happened in the past.

There is a big, big difference between a realist who notes past history, and a cynic. And "hate" has nothing to do with anything here I have posted in this thread. I guess I could say "pardon me for offending your delicate sensibilities," but I won't. This is an internet forum, and last I checked we were supposed to share our thoughts, ideas, and opinions... Funny thing is, I'm not the only one on this board who has this opinion.

Dallara



~

Moved On / My Own Choice
12th December 2008, 16:04
Being realistic is over-rated - I prefer Optimistic! ;)

XLFREAK
12th December 2008, 16:11
Face it, this was HD's way of saying "put up or shut up". The motorcycling press and I guess enough rider comments pursuaded Harley to do a limited US run. I personally think it would look pretty bad if the first 750 don't sell out by the end of the model year, much less the end of the pre-order period.

cybrdyke
12th December 2008, 16:16
I'm with Kev. I prefer optimisim. Do you? I threw my crystal ball away years ago. It had an irreparable camshaft. I dont assume that I know more about global motorcycle marketing than anybody in Milwaukee or even
Tokyo. I cant foresee the demise or success of any HD model nearly as clearly as you can. Because of this, I dont spew the venom that is in your "opinions". You are entitled to your thoughts and please feel free to continue to jot them down on this forum. Just understand that they might be challenged by others and dont take offense that not every one is a pessimist. Ps...i bought one too.

Moved On / My Own Choice
12th December 2008, 16:17
CD - for what it is worth, I'm not reading any venom in Dallara's words... and I must admit I FEAR the same fate...

Dallara
12th December 2008, 16:33
~

CD - for what it is worth, I'm not reading any venom in Dallara's words... and I must admit I FEAR the same fate...



Thanks, Kev.

Never thought I was even remotely close to spewing any "venom" of any kind. Maybe I just spent too long as a motorcycle and car dealer. In fact, I spent most of my adult life in the vehicle business, and maybe that's made me more of a realist than an optimist.

And Cybrdyke, I would really enjoy hearing your assessment of what happened to the XLCR, XR1000, and XL1200R. Maybe you can shed some light on the various reasons those three bikes that have similar mission profiles to the XR1200 are no longer in the H-D line-up... Even more importantly, maybe you can explain why each of those models had such short product life cycles.

http://simplythebest.net/sounds/WAV/sound_effects_WAV/sound_effect_WAV_files/crickets_1.wav

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Dallara



~

biknut
12th December 2008, 16:36
I wonder how long it will be before someone takes their XR and changes it to look like a XL? After all, people take their XLs and change them to look like XRs now.

Moved On / My Own Choice
12th December 2008, 16:39
Dallara - you're also forgeting the one-year-and-done Street Rod - the only Vrod variant I ever would have considered purchasing... :(

biknut
12th December 2008, 16:49
And Cybrdyke, I would really enjoy hearing your assessment of what happened to the XLCR, XR1000, and XL1200R. Maybe you can shed some light on the various reasons those three bikes that have similar mission profiles to the XR1200 are no longer in the H-D line-up... Even more importantly, maybe you can explain why each of those models had such short product life cycles.

Me Me Me, allow me. They all lacked either the right look, or performance, or both.

Harley buyers didn't like the XLCR because it looked weird. Sportbike riders didn't like it because it was too slow. Now just subsitute the other models mentioned for XLCR, and you have your reasons. Don't forget the 1200S too.

Personally I liked the looks of the 1200R. If it only could of lost 150 lbs.

Moved On / My Own Choice
12th December 2008, 16:54
Personally I liked the looks of the 1200R. If it only could of lost 150 lbs.

Then it would have been a Buell....

biknut
12th December 2008, 17:01
Then it would have been a Buell....

A good looking Buell. Still probably wouldn't have sold though.

Moved On / My Own Choice
12th December 2008, 17:02
A good looking Buell. Still probably wouldn't have sold though.

i.e. a Tube-Frame Buell... I believe they didn't sell as well as the current "Transformer" models...

Dallara
12th December 2008, 17:04
~

Dallara - you're also forgeting the one-year-and-done Street Rod - the only Vrod variant I ever would have considered purchasing... :(



Actually I'm not, Kev... I just didn't want to pile too many failed H-D models on Cybrdyke at one time. ;)

Ya' know, it's both funny and tragic, how H-D comes up with some of these really great models and then allows them to fail because of poor, or even complete lack of, marketing and promotion. Nobody knows better how to appeal and market to their core market than H-D does, and that's why they are so successful. However, when it comes to marketing a bit outside that *box* they seem to fail their own wonderful products.

I don't know about the H-D stores where you live, but it is almost depressing going into Harley stores in our area to look at Buell's. The sales staff rarely knows anything about them, and quite often even puts them down and makes jokes about them even though they are their own products to sell. In my local H-D the Buell's are ALL displayed in the entrance hallway and waiting area of the service department! When I first called over there about the XR1200 release NOBODY there even knew what I was talking about it.

The past few days were even more telling... I had to go up the country for a couple of days to see the new baby of my stepson and his wife. On the way back home I stopped at two large metropolitan H-D stores. In each one I asked if they had gotten any XR1200's or taken any orders... In BOTH stores the salesmen sort of chuckled and said something akin to "Yeah, we've had a couple of people ask about 'em, but I don't know if we're going to get any of those. People here aren't really into sportbikes..." And in both stores the Buell's were parked way off in a corner like bastard stepchildren.

And this was in the Austin area, smack dab in the middle of the Texas Hill Country, where some of the best sportbike riding in the world exists.

Like I have said before, I don't want to say it. I want the XR1200 to a mega-sales-success and hatch a whole line of H-D performance bikes... But I just don't see it.

Anybody want to tell me whatever happened to the VR1000 Superbike and it's race program that H-D dumped millions into??? ;)

Thanks!

Dallara




~

biknut
12th December 2008, 17:18
~Anybody want to tell me whatever happened to the VR1000 Superbike and it's race program that H-D dumped millions into???~

It lost the race.

Moved On / My Own Choice
12th December 2008, 17:19
~
Ya' know, it's both funny and tragic, how H-D comes up with some of these really great models and then allows them to fail because of poor, or even complete lack of, marketing and promotion. Nobody knows better how to appeal and market to their core market than H-D does, and that's why they are so successful. However, when it comes to marketing a bit outside that *box* they seem to fail their own wonderful products.

I don't know about the H-D stores where you live, but it is almost depressing going into Harley stores in our area to look at Buell's. The sales staff rarely knows anything about them, and quite often even puts them down and makes jokes about them even though they are their own products to sell. In my local H-D the Buell's are ALL displayed in the entrance hallway and waiting area of the service department! When I first called over there about the XR1200 release NOBODY there even knew what I was talking about it.


Actually here outside Philly we have a number of dealers who GET Buell - I can think of 3-4 off the top of my head. A few of them have dedicated Buell only sales staffs, guys who ARE sportbike and trackday types of guys. They are much obviously more successful with Buell's than the ones who treat em like red-headed stepchildren.

I've also got a friend who for years sold Harleys at a dealer in Ohio (he's now the general manager of the all-brand side of the dealership) and who used to sell the crap outta Vrods - he'd buy up the unsold stock from other dealers because he knew how to move em.

The biggest problem Harley has seen in the past few decades was a direct result of Harley's success. On a corporate level they sold the image so well it was hard for them to market something else (from a Buell to a Vrod). And worse, on the sales floor it bred an atmopshere of elitism and entitlement.

A salesman who pokes fun at some portion of his own products is an IDIOT, because he's throwing money away. Buell's could have just been upside in a time where everything else was selling itself and invetory alotments where maxed.


~

Anybody want to tell me whatever happened to the VR1000 Superbike and it's race program that H-D dumped millions into??? ;)



Yeah, it broke too much... :wonderlan

biknut
12th December 2008, 17:22
If Harley wants to sell Buells or XRs or maybe even MVs they need to open stand alone shops for that purpose.

Moved On / My Own Choice
12th December 2008, 17:23
I Harley wants to sell Buells or XRs or maybe even MVs they need to open stand alone shops for that purpose.

That's silly - no they don't.

They simply NEED to educate dealers and sales forces.

And maybe ease up on some of the over the top plannagramming of stores with Moto farkles.

cybrdyke
12th December 2008, 17:32
Maybe I use the words too loosely. Hate & venom...as in..."why you gotta be hatin'?
Bottom line...those models all failed, so what? HD isn't allowed to try different things? If that's the case, Chevy would never have made the corvette. For every ford thunderbird, there's an edsel. There's a hot new model that everyone's excited about and you're chafin' our buzz.
Enough with this topic...I've moved on.

Moved On / My Own Choice
12th December 2008, 17:34
Maybe I use the words too loosely. Hate & venom...as in..."why you gotta be hatin'?
Bottom line...those models all failed, so what? HD isn't allowed to try different things? If that's the case, Chevy would never have made the corvette. For every ford thunderbird, there's an edsel. There's a hot new model that everyone's excited about and you're chafin' our buzz.
Enough with this topic...I've moved on.

I hear ya man - I don't think anyone here (especially Dallara) is saying Harley shouldn't branch out.

Hell that's what I love the MOST about the XR, is that they ARE branching out, baby steps...

Dallara
12th December 2008, 17:54
~


Maybe I use the words too loosely. Hate & venom...


Yep, you did. There was no "hate" or "venom" expressed or implied.


Bottom line...those models all failed, so what?


Because it's germane to the conversation and discussion.


HD isn't allowed to try different things?


Sure they are, but why is when they do they then ignore the product and quite often fail to properly promote or market it?

The question wasn't did those models fail, but WHY did they fail.


For every ford thunderbird, there's an edsel.


Funny you mention the Edsel. My Father's first car dealership was an Edsel store in Galveston, TX. He sold the hell out of Edsel's, and was mad as hell at Ford when they decided to kill Edsel as a separate brand and roll them into Lincoln-Mercury stores. He got a Lincoln-Mercury franchise out the deal but he always wondered why other dealers had trouble selling Edsel's, though he often said it was because of Ford's lack of marketing and promotion... Wow! Wonder why that sounds familiar? ;)

BTW, Ford no longer produces the Thunderbird, and why did the last one fail? Because of a lack of promotion and proper niche marketing... :D


There's a hot new model that everyone's excited about and you're chafin' our buzz.


I'm not "chafin'" your "buzz", Dude... Just quoting history and how it possibly relates to this new model. Certainly you can challenge my conclusions, and even H-D model history, if you wish. That's what forums are for. Please don't be upset, though, if someone presents a counter argument with examples of fact that directly relate to the discussion.



They simply NEED to educate dealers and sales forces.

And maybe ease up on some of the over the top plannagramming of stores with Moto farkles.



Never truer words were spoken, Kev. H-D can, and should, educate their dealers to take advantage of their current model line-up, not to mention future products that may venture out of their current market niche.

Thanks!

Dallara




~

dirt rider
12th December 2008, 18:20
Dallara - you're also forgeting the one-year-and-done Street Rod - the only Vrod variant I ever would have considered purchasing... :(

Same here. I had the bug to pick one up last spring and found one new one left in Canada. Would have bought it if it was discounted some, considering it was two years old. The dealer wanted a premium. I didn't even try to haggle.

Moved On / My Own Choice
12th December 2008, 18:33
Same here. I had the bug to pick one up last spring and found one new one left in Canada. Would have bought it if it was discounted some, considering it was two years old. The dealer wanted a premium. I didn't even try to haggle.

Someone recently posted on one of these XR threads about a dealer who still has a brand new one - price is down to $11k... :doh

sportexan
12th December 2008, 18:35
The past few days were even more telling... I had to go up the country for a couple of days to see the new baby of my stepson and his wife. On the way back home I stopped at two large metropolitan H-D stores. In each one I asked if they had gotten any XR1200's or taken any orders... In BOTH stores the salesmen sort of chuckled and said something akin to "Yeah, we've had a couple of people ask about 'em, but I don't know if we're going to get any of those. People here aren't really into sportbikes..." And in both stores the Buell's were parked way off in a corner like bastard stepchildren.

And this was in the Austin area, smack dab in the middle of the Texas Hill Country, where some of the best sportbike riding in the world exists.

The really sad thing...in that store south of Austin, they had my order in the Friday after Thanksgiving. Last time I checked, one other person had also put down a deposit.

Clued in as always :banana

I've always thought that the worst place to find info on a motorcycle was at the dealer...

Midas
12th December 2008, 18:51
~





I'm only dealing in realities here given past history.

What happened to the XLCR? Do you know?

What happened to the XR1000? Do you know?

What happened to the XL1200R? Do you know?


Who cares :D

josephthreedogs
12th December 2008, 19:58
Dallara - you're also forgeting the one-year-and-done Street Rod - the only Vrod variant I ever would have considered purchasing... :(

Street Rod was a two year production, the B also a two year production along with the D as a three year run. All the V-Rods are short run models except the A-AW model. But the R is my favorite.

Hondo Cat
12th December 2008, 19:58
[QUOTE=Kev M;1623183].....On a corporate level they sold the image so well it was hard for them to market something else (from a Buell to a Vrod). And worse, on the sales floor it bred an atmopshere of elitism and entitlement./QUOTE](emphasis mine)

:clap ENLIGHTENMENT! How true! The above is what I dislike. I don't dislike the bikes Harley-Davidson makes. I do, however, dislike the negative baggage that comes along with owning one.............image, elitism, and entitlement.

Moved On / My Own Choice
12th December 2008, 20:06
Street Rod was a two year production, the B also a two year production along with the D as a three year run. All the V-Rods are short run models except the A-AW model. But the R is my favorite.

Oppps thanks for the education, I didn't realize they made the Street Rod 2 years. I couldn't follow the rest of what you said (not being a Vrod guy) ;)



.....On a corporate level they sold the image so well it was hard for them to market something else (from a Buell to a Vrod). And worse, on the sales floor it bred an atmopshere of elitism and entitlement.(emphasis mine)

:clap ENLIGHTENMENT! How true! The above is what I dislike. I don't dislike the bikes Harley-Davidson makes. I do, however, dislike the negative baggage that comes along with owning one.............image, elitism, and entitlement.

Yeah, but just cause they're SELLING that doesn't automatically mean YOU'RE buying it.

Baggage is for airlines...

You only take what baggage you want to own with a Harley.

If others can't see that, screw em.

mcgo104
12th December 2008, 21:25
Sitting in my office this afternoon, trying to stay awake after a big lunch at Hooters, when my girl at the front desk buzzed me to say there was someone to see me in the lobby. I walked out to see the manager from my local dealer standing there. He said he'd had lunch in the area and just stopped by to say hello. We spoke a moment then he said he had to leave and asked me to step outside so he could tell me something. I walked out the front door and there was the dealership truck with a trailer carrying my new XR! Sweet! Nice surprise on a Friday afternoon....now I just have to explain it to my wife.

XLFREAK
12th December 2008, 21:31
Wait, you bought a Harley and didn't tell your wife? That's living dangerously.

mcgo104
12th December 2008, 21:35
The upside is that after 32 yrs and countless motorcycles she's used to it.....I hope!

hawk mechanic
12th December 2008, 21:40
Sitting in my office this afternoon, trying to stay awake after a big lunch at Hooters, when my girl at the front desk buzzed me to say there was someone to see me in the lobby. I walked out to see the manager from my local dealer standing there. He said he'd had lunch in the area and just stopped by to say hello. We spoke a moment then he said he had to leave and asked me to step outside so he could tell me something. I walked out the front door and there was the dealership truck with a trailer carrying my new XR! Sweet! Nice surprise on a Friday afternoon....now I just have to explain it to my wife.

Thars awersome, congrats. Sounds like you got the bike from a good dealer, for them to bring it to your work.

Joe

mcgo104
12th December 2008, 21:54
Yeah, I do have to give props to my dealer. They have always been very good to me. A good parts guy is worth his weight in gold.

XLFREAK
12th December 2008, 22:01
The upside is that after 32 yrs and countless motorcycles she's used to it.....I hope!


And I hope for your sake she doesn't plan for you to have an "unfortunate accident" as my in-laws would say.

superwarden
12th December 2008, 22:09
Sitting in my office this afternoon, trying to stay awake after a big lunch at Hooters, when my girl at the front desk buzzed me to say there was someone to see me in the lobby. I walked out to see the manager from my local dealer standing there. He said he'd had lunch in the area and just stopped by to say hello. We spoke a moment then he said he had to leave and asked me to step outside so he could tell me something. I walked out the front door and there was the dealership truck with a trailer carrying my new XR! Sweet! Nice surprise on a Friday afternoon....now I just have to explain it to my wife.

So I take it the trailer doubles as your living quarters??

mcgo104
12th December 2008, 22:14
Well I do have to sleep with one eye open. As far as the trailer becoming my residence we will know by about 5 o'clock....I just sent her a text message telling her about it. I didn't have the cajones to call.............she's a middle school teacher, they are TOUGH!

Furyus
13th December 2008, 02:33
For that reason I see the XR1200 as a two, maybe three, year model at most... And then it will disappear. Then one day it will develop the kind of cult following the XLCR has.

I wouldn't be surprised to see the XR as a one year offering. Just look at the history of, no wait, that'll chaff some folks.

I work at a fairly large dealership in an affluent part of the country. My XR is the only order. Very little interest. In fact, due to my damp, drafty garage, I'm putting mine up on a lift on the sales floor for January and February - maybe help the sales staff move a few more (while I get climate controlled storage with motion sensors).

From the beginning I saw this as a very limited run, perhaps leading into a more performance oriented Roadster in the near future. There is no way the XR is a permanent fixture in the line-up.

Incredibly, there are people I work with that say the XR is still a "girl's bike." They are so deep into the "outlaw" image, despite the fact that they themselves are ordinary "citizens," they can't admit it is a cool bike. Biggest drawback to owning a Harley is the weekend one-percenter nonsense.

Dallara, your post was spot on.

furyus

Midas
13th December 2008, 02:57
Biggest drawback to owning a Harley is the weekend one-percenter nonsense.



furyus

Halle(fuc££ing)lujah, if you're gonna do 1% nonsense, its gotta be 24/7 :smoke:smoke

I been struggling with that shit for 23 years..........

vecchio lupo
13th December 2008, 04:37
My dealer called me today to say the crate was in and when did I want to pick it up. Of course I couldnt get my final financing and insurance done by close of business Friday, so I will have to wait until next week. I may drive (70 miles) to my dealer and look at it saturday morning. I have a dealer 7 miles from me, but when I went in there and asked about a Buell Uylsses, I was told they dropped Buell cuz the only bike people want is the road glide. I asked them about the XR1200, and nobody on the sales floor knew what I was talking about, they said they had several XL1200s to choose from, but wouldnt I rather step up to a Road Glide? Scr3w those guys at HD New Orleans, I'll drive to Baton Rouge.

I hope like everybody that the model is an underground success that catches fire, but if not, I will buy another one in 18 months and ask that it not be uncrated, so I can take it to the Daytona auction in 10 years and get long green from a foriegn collector.

Midas
13th December 2008, 12:29
I hope like everybody that the model is an underground success that catches fire, but if not, I will buy another one in 18 months and ask that it not be uncrated, so I can take it to the Daytona auction in 10 years and get long green from a foriegn collector.
Wouldn't have thought that was the best idea you ever had, being as they were released worldwide before you got them in the States.

biknut
13th December 2008, 15:19
I think the XR will go down as the modern 79 model.

vecchio lupo
13th December 2008, 18:18
I thought about the worldwide release, but my XR would be an "American XR"(Insert Joke Here), plus I am counting on the rest of the world using them up by then and a NIB example would be needed for a museum. OK, you got me, I just want one in reserve in case my son decides to be a rider, or I need another one for some reason.

I mean what else should I do with my money, invest in General Motors?

Dallara
13th December 2008, 18:57
~



Doesn't really matter whether they were sold in Europe or not...

Just about every H-D that had some sort of iconic status has become a collector's item or cult bike of some kind.

The original Super Glide's...

The XLCR's...

The XR1000's...

Takes longer for some than others. To be quite honest I see V-Rod's disappearing from the H-D line-up one day soon, despite H-D developing it for the day when they couldn't possibly make an air-cooled engine pass impending noise regulations. They just don't sell in sufficient numbers to justify their tooling, development, and production costs. Something tells me the minute H-D has recovered just the tooling costs they will turn the lights out on making V-Rod's...

Then you watch, V-Rod's will become the next big collector's H-D.

In fact, if history serves then the more off-the-beaten-path the model is for H-D the more chance it will be discontinued, AND that it will become a cult wonder.

Unfortunately for those of us who have been just waiting for something like the XR1200 it is still one of those off-the-beaten-path Harley's... One of those that is just about guaranteed to garner discontinued status soon, but also to develop that cult following collector-bike status much like the XLCR.

Doesn't matter where H-D sold 'em, 10, 20, 30 years down the road the XR1200 will bring big money with some collector somewhere...

As we used to say when I was a dealer - "There's an a** for every seat. You just have to find it." :smoke

And you could invest in Harley-Davidson stock... :)

Dallara




~

XLFREAK
15th December 2008, 03:09
I saw one in person today at Battley's Cycles in Gaithersburg, MD. Photos don't do it justice IMO. BTW, the owner of Battley's told me that he had deposits on three and another three pending. He also sells Ducati and BMW, so I guess his customer base is one that would appreciate the XR1200.

markmc
15th December 2008, 03:50
Anyone know what # we're up to on the race to 750?

scouts
15th December 2008, 03:53
My main interest in HD's is for pre-evo models, however I try to keep up with anything mc related. My point is that HD sales promotion is kind of limited. The ONLY reason I knew of the xr1200 is from this forum. Otherwise I would have no clue. So I have to assume the vast majority have no idea about it. And with none on display........... I dunno. I can remember when the xr1000 came out. There was a lot of advertising comparatively. Keep in mind this was before the internet, and I knew about the xr1000's coming out while in the Navy. Today? again, if not for here, I still wouldn't know.

Moved On / My Own Choice
15th December 2008, 04:00
My main interest in HD's is for pre-evo models, however I try to keep up with anything mc related. My point is that HD sales promotion is kind of limited. The ONLY reason I knew of the xr1200 is from this forum. Otherwise I would have no clue. So I have to assume the vast majority have no idea about it. And with none on display........... I dunno. I can remember when the xr1000 came out. There was a lot of advertising comparatively. Keep in mind this was before the internet, and I knew about the xr1000's coming out while in the Navy. Today? again, if not for here, I still wouldn't know.

This isn't a dig man - but you say you keep up with HDs? The XR1200 was debuted TWO YEARS AGO, and it's made pretty huge waves in the motorcycle industry, with coverage in just about every magazine.

Are you saying you hadn't seen any of that, or just hadn't heard about the special pre-order? Cause the later was only announced two weeks ago..and think about it, they've sold more than 400 bikes at this point, without any advertising in two weeks... :clap

chrisg
15th December 2008, 04:02
Anyone know what # we're up to on the race to 750?

So are they going to start discounting the "initial release" if they all aren't pre-ordered by the 15th. :banana I haven't even had a chance to see one in person yet, let alone ride one.
Hopefully it isn't raining for the San Mateo show.

Moved On / My Own Choice
15th December 2008, 04:04
So are they going to start discounting the "initial release" if they all aren't pre-ordered by the 15th.

Discounting? Put down the crack pipe, not unless they languish on the sales floor (which they don't seem to be doing yet).

chrisg
15th December 2008, 04:12
Discounting? Put down the crack pipe, not unless they languish on the sales floor (which they don't seem to be doing yet).

I was just pondering what the whole "pre-order" before the 15th thing is supposed to be. Do dealers gouge or discount after that? Or is it just not that a big deal if you order one after the date. Just wondering why there was actually a date limit. Just curious.

XLFREAK
15th December 2008, 04:15
I'm really convinced HD did the preorder to gauge genuine interest after all the commotion the press and I guess enough riders caused. It was sort of a "put up or shut up" on HD's part.

Moved On / My Own Choice
15th December 2008, 04:19
I was just pondering what the whole "pre-order" before the 15th thing is supposed to be. Do dealers gouge or discount after that? Or is it just not that a big deal if you order one after the date. Just wondering why there was actually a date limit. Just curious.

We don't know cause I can't recall them ever doing this before, but MY GUESS is they are doing this to generate some excitement.

I just can't figure out why it took them 2 damn years to launch it here, because they HAD all the excitement and more 18 months ago... :dunno

Anyway, I think it's simply a way to generate some extra interest.

Furyus
15th December 2008, 04:28
Looks like they sold a little over half of the pre-order limit without breaking much of an advertising sweat. I'm still not seeing ANY interest at our dealership, though this close to Christmas combined with this economy, we're not seeing a lot of bikes of any stripe being sold. I still have a gut feeling the XR will only be domestically available for one or two years, max. And I'd be surprised if its two years.

furyus

hrg
15th December 2008, 10:48
i don't know why are you thinking that XR1200 would be one or two year model? i think (and hope) the MOCO will produce it longer than that. my opinion is that this bike could bring new, younger customers to HD world

Furyus
15th December 2008, 12:44
i don't know why are you thinking that XR1200 would be one or two year model? i think (and hope) the MOCO will produce it longer than that. my opinion is that this bike could bring new, younger customers to HD world

I don't think there will be the demand, and a Roadster with some XR upgrades would probably appeal to more of Harley's base. I don't see the younger riders moving away from the R6's and GSXR's for an XR, not in large numbers at least. And I think you missed the word "domestically" in my post. You Euros will probably get a much longer run than we will in the States.

I think the XR is special, and won't be available for very long.

furyus

hrg
15th December 2008, 13:59
I don't think there will be the demand, and a Roadster with some XR upgrades would probably appeal to more of Harley's base. I don't see the younger riders moving away from the R6's and GSXR's for an XR, not in large numbers at least. And I think you missed the word "domestically" in my post. You Euros will probably get a much longer run than we will in the States.

I think the XR is special, and won't be available for very long.

furyus

we'll see, i hope they will produce it for ages...
personally, i like an idea (maybe not the XR look, but...)of faster, better handling, cornering and braking bike in Sportster family, and i am pretty sure that stock XR is that.
also, there are lot of people who don't like traditional or custom look of other Sportsters and like naked look of XR.

Moved On / My Own Choice
15th December 2008, 14:05
I don't think there will be the demand, and a Roadster with some XR upgrades would probably appeal to more of Harley's base. I don't see the younger riders moving away from the R6's and GSXR's for an XR, not in large numbers at least. And I think you missed the word "domestically" in my post. You Euros will probably get a much longer run than we will in the States.

I think the XR is special, and won't be available for very long.

furyus

I don't know why "young people" moving from sportbikes in large numbers if of concern to anyone in the Harley world.

Seriously.

That said, I've seen a significant number of "young people" give up their sportbikes for 1200Ns in the past year or two... so it's obviously not all about "performance" anyway.

Furyus
15th December 2008, 14:13
I don't know why "young people" moving from sportbikes in large numbers if of concern to anyone in the Harley world.

Seriously.

That said, I've seen a significant number of "young people" give up their sportbikes for 1200Ns in the past year or two... so it's obviously not all about "performance" anyway.

I see a lot of people posting that maybe the XR will appeal to younger riders. That's the only reason I bring it up. You're right, too, about the N - lots of twenty-somethings buying those, and I can't blame 'em. Very cool bike, especially for a hard-tail (the shocks are decorative, which is why I didn't buy one).

Even hrg admits he likes the features of the XR, but wants a more traditional Sportster. This thinking seems prevalent and leads me to believe we'll see an upgraded R in a year or two, and no more XR.

furyus

OBJMS33
15th December 2008, 14:26
I'm 38 and I want one because like many of us we grew up seeing the bikers and like HD. For me though I think HD limits their market by charging too much. I thinks lots of 20-30 yr old guys would buy like a nightster, but man I make 75k a yr and I think they cost too much. Whats a young guy gonna do when he cant qualify for HD financing and he can get a sweet sport bike for 6-9k. This is why i was stoked on this bike, I CAN HAVE A HARLEY! AND IT TURNS!! I would like to see it lighter and cheaper but still might get one because it is A HD! And bitchin too boot. Sport bike shops are lined up to take advantage of these guys. If California wasnt an overcrowed parking lot I would love a superglide. But lane splitting on that aint gonna be too easy. I find other bikes to be safer for our conditions here.
Btw I was on a sport bike forum that was bashing HD and one guy complimented u here on this forum for being open minded that you should ride what YOU want because its your bike.
John

Furyus
15th December 2008, 14:41
I'm 38 and I want one because like many of us we grew up seeing the bikers and like HD. For me though I think HD limits their market by charging too much. I thinks lots of 20-30 yr old guys would buy like a nightster, but man I make 75k a yr and I think they cost too much.

Locally, the 600-class sportbikes from Honda, Suzuki, Kawasaki and Yamaha are a couple hundred dollars short of ten thousand. And the metric financing houses are stricter than HD, plus insurance is astronomical for a younger rider on a sportbike. I used to sell 'em, and I'd see insurance quotes for 8k a year on an 8k bike (needless to say, the person went home bike-less).

Smaller metric cruisers may cost a little less out the door, but they are in no way as cool as a Harley.

furyus

Moved On / My Own Choice
15th December 2008, 14:45
I see a lot of people posting that maybe the XR will appeal to younger riders. That's the only reason I bring it up. You're right, too, about the N - lots of twenty-somethings buying those, and I can't blame 'em. Very cool bike, especially for a hard-tail (the shocks are decorative, which is why I didn't buy one).

Even hrg admits he likes the features of the XR, but wants a more traditional Sportster. This thinking seems prevalent and leads me to believe we'll see an upgraded R in a year or two, and no more XR.
furyus

I don't see many people posting that - I DO SEE A NUMBER OF PEOPLE SUGGESTING that the XR will appeal to NEW, DIFFERENT or OTHERWISE NOT HARLEY DEMOGRAPHIC riders - that doesn't have to just mean younger. And, just by the slight shift in focus of the performance and looks of the bike I think that's accurate.

As for the 1200R it wasn't that great a seller either, so even if they DID do what you predict it doesn't mean it's gonna be a show room burner.

That said, I could see the XR evolving into a bike with more traditional sportster looks, possibly... time will tell. I'm not actually making any predictions, because I'm too optimistic to be objective about it.


I'm 38 and I want one because like many of us we grew up seeing the bikers and like HD. For me though I think HD limits their market by charging too much. I thinks lots of 20-30 yr old guys would buy like a nightster, but man I make 75k a yr and I think they cost too much.


I think I was making a measly 25k give or take when I bought my $14k Road King back in 96... DUDE, seriously, if you're making 75k (decent money, not extravagant, but probably a good coin more than a lot of HD riders) and you think $10k is too much :doh how do you feel about car prices?

How about BMW prices - a 3-series goes for $35-50k.

Hell even Mini Coopers are $20-35k these days.


Whats a young guy gonna do when he cant qualify for HD financing and he can get a sweet sport bike for 6-9k. This is why i was stoked on this bike, I CAN HAVE A HARLEY! AND IT TURNS!! I would like to see it lighter and cheaper but still might get one because it is A HD! And bitchin too boot. Sport bike shops are lined up to take advantage of these guys. If California wasnt an overcrowed parking lot I would love a superglide. But lane splitting on that aint gonna be too easy. I find other bikes to be safer for our conditions here.


Keep in mind that Harley hasn't really needed to or tried to be price competitive with Japanese bikes for decades. And why would they start now? I mean don't get me wrong, they actually come reasonably close in price, but like other premium products (again reference BMW motorcycles) they don't NEED to be equal to or cheaper.

Plus a lot of those kids lined up to buy sport bikes can't do it when they realize the insurance is gonna be as much as the payment. Not so on Harleys.

And you said it yourself, you're stoked because it's a Harley, and IT TURNS... (:shhhh it goes and stops too).

;)

hrg
15th December 2008, 14:51
I'm 38 and I want one because like many of us we grew up seeing the bikers and like HD. For me though I think HD limits their market by charging too much. I thinks lots of 20-30 yr old guys would buy like a nightster, but man I make 75k a yr and I think they cost too much. Whats a young guy gonna do when he cant qualify for HD financing and he can get a sweet sport bike for 6-9k. This is why i was stoked on this bike, I CAN HAVE A HARLEY! AND IT TURNS!! I would like to see it lighter and cheaper but still might get one because it is A HD! And bitchin too boot. Sport bike shops are lined up to take advantage of these guys. If California wasnt an overcrowed parking lot I would love a superglide. But lane splitting on that aint gonna be too easy. I find other bikes to be safer for our conditions here.
Btw I was on a sport bike forum that was bashing HD and one guy complimented u here on this forum for being open minded that you should ride what YOU want because its your bike.
John
i agree, HD is overpriced, but you must see prices here in Croatia. sportster starts from 13000$, dyna from 21000$, softails from 29500$, tourers from 31000$ - that is total ripoff!!! and i work for 11k a yr, but i've bought Harley because i've always wanted one, and now i am paying credit for 7 years - 200$ a month:censor

Moved On / My Own Choice
15th December 2008, 15:06
i agree, HD is overpriced,

ECONOMIC LESSON TIME

A product is worth what people will pay for it.

A product that sells is therefore by defintion NOT overpriced!

But yes, Harleys are generally premium priced, not bargain basement priced.

Then again, so are a lot of things I love...

;)

Furyus
15th December 2008, 15:13
I don't see many people posting that - I DO SEE A NUMBER OF PEOPLE SUGGESTING that the XR will appeal to NEW, DIFFERENT or OTHERWISE NOT HARLEY DEMOGRAPHIC riders - that doesn't have to just mean younger. And, just by the slight shift in focus of the performance and looks of the bike I think that's accurate.

As for the 1200R it wasn't that great a seller either, so even if they DID do what you predict it doesn't mean it's gonna be a show room burner.

That said, I could see the XR evolving into a bike with more traditional sportster looks, possibly... time will tell. I'm not actually making any predictions, because I'm too optimistic to be objective about it.
;)

I've heard people suggest the XR will attract younger folks to Harley - on this forum, other forums and in person - but I agree the majority may intend to mean beyond the H-D demo rather than age specific. No argument from me on this point.

You're correct also that the 1200R wasn't setting records on the showroom, but I can safely say that is intentional. Sales will try and move someone from a Sporty to a Dyna or Softail, and management doesn't order very many Sportsters beyond 883L's. A lot of people at my dealership are dumbfounded that I would trade my FXD for the XR, fully believing the myth that Sportsters are either girls bikes or for beginners.

Build a 1200R with some upgrades from the XR (like the 50mm EFI with a traditional air cleaner), and lose the beginner bike attitude and they will sell.

furyus

harleyhornet
15th December 2008, 15:18
I walked out the front door and there was the dealership truck with a trailer carrying my new XR! Sweet! Nice surprise on a Friday afternoon....now I just have to explain it to my wife.[/QUOTE]

Tell her you won it

Moved On / My Own Choice
15th December 2008, 15:19
lose the beginner bike attitude[/B] and they will sell.


But in the long term is that in Harley's best interest? :dunno

I'm not sure one way or the other.

MAYBE it is, maybe that's part of their overall strategy in the long run.

I mean, 10 years ago an FXD still sold for under $10k, and Sportsters were solidmounted and appealed to a more limited audience/usage.

Fast forward and Sportys are more comfortable, more capable, and all of the 1200CC models cost what a Superglide did just a few years ago.

If the Sportys are comfortable and capable, and priced as "high" as they are, will they drive as many sales to the BTs without that attitude? I dunno.

OBJMS33
15th December 2008, 17:01
You guys all make very good points. Looks like I'm closer to an XR. Geico quoted me 600 a yr to insure the xr and my klr. I have been having a lot of trouble at work lately and it has been hard to focus my mind on all the good I have going for me. But work is my only problem, I do carry a lot of debt but thats what I get for learning to handle money late. I was mostly crying because I can get the DL650 for 7k OTD. But the reason I don't own one now is cause the dealers last year tried to gouge me and now I know better. Was already quoted MSRP for the XR here. The price of cars does bug me as well. My truck is pushing 200k but I don't want to spend no 20-30k so I am looking for a good used certified. But I do agree with you guys its whats things are worth to u. sqrew people that belong back in high school. I was at work and very busy when I was posting earlier too.
John

Quay
15th December 2008, 19:40
They are practically giving trucks away these days.........
One of my coworkers just picked up a brand new Dodge Cummins 3500 with plenty of bells and whistles for $32,000. Between the financing options and huge discounts (as much as 40% off MSRP) they are quite competitive with newer, used trucks.

longbow13
15th December 2008, 23:23
Hello!
I ordered a black one this last Friday (the 12th). It's supposed to be delivered in February. I know its a bit superficial to be concerned about the color, but the orange is a bit much for me, and if I'm putting down that much money I might as well get what I want. Also, gives me more time to get a bit of gear, avoid the cold weather, take a refresher MSF course, and save up a bit of extra money for the purchase.
I called my local dealership last Wednesday asking when they would get an XR in so I could see it in person before deciding to buy it. To my suprise they had an orange in right then, and were displaying it front and center in the store. I don't know if they've sold many others, but we're in sort of a small market here, so I'd be suprised if they had.
I've owned a BMW and a Triumph in the past, so I guess I'm in the target market for the bike. Always hated Harleys....I think cause deep down I wanted one, but they never made one I was interested in. So, as soon as I saw the XR was being released here I stopped shopping for a Ducati Monster and made up my mind fairly quickly on the XR.

Not sure if I'm hoping they'll sell well so we have lots of performance accessories available, or that they dont' sell at all so that I can have something unique!

Ralphthe3rd
15th December 2008, 23:38
Technically speaking, performance accessories(that alter smog or sound emissions) ARE ILLEGAL on any EPA controlled street legal vehicle in the USA :o
Don't shoot the messenger :D



Not sure if I'm hoping they'll sell well so we have lots of performance accessories available, or that they dont' sell at all so that I can have something unique!

hawk mechanic
15th December 2008, 23:43
Technically speaking, performance accessories ARE ILLEGAL on any EPA controlled street legal vehicle in the USA :o
Don't shoot the messenger :D

Oh, come on Ralph, give the guy a break. That sounds like something Kev would say:smoke Congrats on the new bike.

Joe

Dallara
15th December 2008, 23:56
Technically speaking, performance accessories(that alter smog or sound emissions) ARE ILLEGAL on any EPA controlled street legal vehicle in the USA :o
Don't shoot the messenger :D


I'm afraid that's not true... At least not in all 50 states, thank goodness.

It is illegal for a manufacturer to sell (or import) a vehicle for street use that does not comply with EPA regulations. In certain states that require emissions testing and have regulations that match or exceed EPA requirements it is illegal to install any items or accessories that do not meet those requirements. If the aftermarket item meets or betters the EPA or state requirements then you can install them in those states.

In the rest of the country once the individual customers has taken possession and title to a motor vehicle he can alter the engine parameters however they see fit with regards to emissions regulations. There are NO federal laws, means of enforcement, nor penalties for, say, changing the exhaust system on your car, motorcycle, or truck. Some individual states have their own laws, penalties, and means of enforcement regarding emissions regulations.

Just FYI...

So modify, accessorize, tune, tweak, poke, prod, twist, fold, spindle, and mutilate all those EPA stamped parts you want! :D

Dallara


~

hawk mechanic
15th December 2008, 23:59
Hello!
I ordered a black one this last Friday (the 12th). It's supposed to be delivered in February. I know its a bit superficial to be concerned about the color, but the orange is a bit much for me, and if I'm putting down that much money I might as well get what I want. Also, gives me more time to get a bit of gear, avoid the cold weather, take a refresher MSF course, and save up a bit of extra money for the purchase.
I called my local dealership last Wednesday asking when they would get an XR in so I could see it in person before deciding to buy it. To my suprise they had an orange in right then, and were displaying it front and center in the store. I don't know if they've sold many others, but we're in sort of a small market here, so I'd be suprised if they had.
I've owned a BMW and a Triumph in the past, so I guess I'm in the target market for the bike. Always hated Harleys....I think cause deep down I wanted one, but they never made one I was interested in. So, as soon as I saw the XR was being released here I stopped shopping for a Ducati Monster and made up my mind fairly quickly on the XR.

Not sure if I'm hoping they'll sell well so we have lots of performance accessories available, or that they dont' sell at all so that I can have something unique!


But anyway, congrats on getting a new bike, and welcome to our nuthouse. I sounds like you will be the first of us in the states to get a non-orange XR.


Joe

Ralphthe3rd
16th December 2008, 00:11
I'm sorry to say - you'll be sorry, sooner or later ! The Federal law trumps local state laws, and sooner or later, they will MAKE each state comply.
Hey, I was just like you ten years ago, I had a '88 pickup truck with totally altered-ie: removal of all emission hardware etc., but as our part of the state had no emissions check at the time(I was cool), only a few larger cities in PA had recently implimented such smog testing, but us rural folks were exempt. But.... several years ago the law was made statewide, and although lots of rural inspection stations didn't have smog test equipment, they bypassed that and ordered underhood checks of intact and functioning smog equipment. Suffice to say, all mine was gone(and would have cost alot to replace), and my truck could no longer pass inspection and had to be taken off the road. As for motorcycles, they have been cracking down on inspection on them too, as alot of the stations passing straight thru pipes were stung by undercover officers and they lost their license. It's a catch me if you can deal, but the writing is on the wall...sooner or later you WILL comply- or just be be an outlaw I guess ? LOL :laugh

I'm afraid that's not true... At least not in all 50 states, thank goodness.

It is illegal for a manufacturer to sell (or import) a vehicle for street use that does not comply with EPA regulations. In certain states that require emissions testing and have regulations that match or exceed EPA requirements it is illegal to install any items or accessories that do not meet those requirements. If the aftermarket item meets or betters the EPA or state requirements then you can install them in those states.

In the rest of the country once the individual customers has taken possession and title to a motor vehicle he can alter the engine parameters however they see fit with regards to emissions regulations. There are NO federal laws, means of enforcement, nor penalties for, say, changing the exhaust system on your car, motorcycle, or truck. Some individual states have their own laws, penalties, and means of enforcement regarding emissions regulations.

Just FYI...

So modify, accessorize, tune, tweak, poke, prod, twist, fold, spindle, and mutilate all those EPA stamped parts you want! :D

Dallara


~

XR1200Sportster
16th December 2008, 00:16
Ralph, you need to shelve your nonsense. I live in PA as well. When, and if they (Fed) puts forth to law that we (motorcyclists) need to comply to emissions regs, it will only effect bikes from that date forward. Kinda like the Smog laws that PA follows. Anything 74 and older is fair game, but anything 75 and new (like your truck) must have the smog parts in place and pass emissions tests. That day is not here for the bikers, it IS fair game.

Ralphthe3rd
16th December 2008, 00:29
I wish I could ignore the future like you are... :D
You really should READ our States' Motorcycle Inspection regs before you get in over your head.... I've read the laws, and know what they can fail you for... Granted, half the bikes on the road in PA are illegal, but that only means the inspection stations that passed them are treading on thin ice :p

Ralph, you need to shelve your nonsense. I live in PA as well. When, and if they (Fed) puts forth to law that we (motorcyclists) need to comply to emissions regs, it will only effect bikes from that date forward. Kinda like the Smog laws that PA follows. Anything 74 and older is fair game, but anything 75 and new (like your truck) must have the smog parts in place and pass emissions tests. That day is not here for the bikers, it IS fair game.

XR1200Sportster
16th December 2008, 00:32
I have read them, I used to have my inspection license. Its to do with Noise, not the emissions coming out...

Ralphthe3rd
16th December 2008, 00:35
I didn't say anything about Motorcycle emissions....I was just commenting on exhaust mods etc. Oh btw- do you know it's actually illegal to alter your turn signals from OEM as well !

I have read them, I used to have my inspection license. Its to do with Noise, not the emissions coming out...

Ralphthe3rd
16th December 2008, 00:42
Dear sir, my name is Ralph- I'm sorry but I don't know yours. Anyway, I was wondering what part of our commonwealth you're from ? I'm from Juniata Co., maybe if you're not too far, we can meet up for a ride sometime next year ?
Edit : Ahhh- I see from looking up your first posts- that you work at Steel City HD in Washington PA- near Pittsburgh- eh ?!

I have read them, I used to have my inspection license. Its to do with Noise, not the emissions coming out...

longbow13
16th December 2008, 01:25
I'm going for a HD instead of a BMW or Ducati...doesn't that mean I'm supposed to be anti-authority and not care about the EPA and the Feds??? :D

Hondo Cat
16th December 2008, 01:26
Hello!
I ordered a black one this last Friday (the 12th). It's supposed to be delivered in February. I know its a bit superficial to be concerned about the color, but the orange is a bit much for me, and if I'm putting down that much money I might as well get what I want.

I too, don't care for the orange and I don't care about orange being Harley's color either. When I get the money, I'll buy the cheaper black and would like to buy all those carbon fiber parts AdrenalinMoto sells. I doubt I'll even put the XR 1200 sticker back on the tank.

I've owned a BMW and a Triumph in the past, so I guess I'm in the target market for the bike. Always hated Harleys....I think cause deep down I wanted one, but they never made one I was interested in. So, as soon as I saw the XR was being released here I stopped shopping for a Ducati Monster and made up my mind fairly quickly on the XR.

I currently own a Triumph and will have to sell it in order to afford the XR. I've never really hated Harley's, just most the riders (my brother's owned several and has one now; I don't hate him. But then he's not an a$$hole either). So, we have a few things in common.

Hope you thoroughly enjoy your new ride! :tour

Dallara
16th December 2008, 01:27
I'm sorry to say - you'll be sorry, sooner or later ! The Federal law trumps local state laws, and sooner or later, they will MAKE each state comply.


Guess you missed what I wrote, Ralph... Which was:

"In certain states that require emissions testing and have regulations that match or exceed EPA requirements it is illegal to install any items or accessories that do not meet those requirements. If the aftermarket item meets or betters the EPA or state requirements then you can install them in those states.

In the rest of the country once the individual customers has taken possession and title to a motor vehicle he can alter the engine parameters however they see fit with regards to emissions regulations. There are NO federal laws, means of enforcement, nor penalties for, say, changing the exhaust system on your car, motorcycle, or truck. Some individual states have their own laws, penalties, and means of enforcement regarding emissions regulations."


Please note the parts like "in certain states" and "some individual states"...

And NO, the federal government cannot "MAKE" each state comply - at least not yet. States can choose to follow EPA mandates and enforce them, or even enact stricter rules and regulations (like California does), but there is no current method by way of which the federal government can force states to comply and enforce federal EPA regulations.

Perhaps someday they might try to withhold federal highway funds to coerce compliance, much as they did with states that did not want to follow along with the 55 MPH speed limit nonsense. But so far nothing like that has occurred. If you live in a state that trundles along behind the Washington, D.C. wagon of excessive bureaucracy then I feel for you...

Me, I like living down here where it's still warm, we can legally carry guns on our person, gasoline is cheap, and there's more land than people... :D :banana :D :clap :D :banana :D

Dallara



~

XR1200Sportster
16th December 2008, 01:29
Ralph, I am at Steel City HD in Washington PA, near Pittsburgh. My name is Brian, everyone calls me Beardo...

Ralphthe3rd
16th December 2008, 01:35
In my state of PA, we were forced several years ago to follow Federal Mandated Auto Emissions testing, or else the Feds were threatening to withhold state highway funds.... we caved.
Big Brother is not only watching, but is gonna take over everything- eventually ! Don't shoot the messenger, the writing HAS BEEN on the wall !
(Don't you just hate it when peeps mix metaphors?!) :p

Guess you missed what I wrote, Ralph... Which was:

Please note the parts like "in certain states" and "some individual states"...

And NO, the federal government cannot "MAKE" each state comply - at least not yet. States can choose to follow EPA mandates and enforce them, or even enact stricter rules and regulations (like California does), but there is no current method by way of which the federal government can force states to comply and enforce federal EPA regulations.

Perhaps someday they might try to withhold federal highway funds to coerce compliance, much as they did with states that did not want to follow along with the 55 MPH speed limit nonsense. But so far nothing like that has occurred. If you live in a state that trundles along behind the Washington, D.C. wagon of excessive bureaucracy then I feel for you...

Me, I like living down here where it's still warm, we can legally carry guns on our person, gasoline is cheap, and there's more land than people... :D :banana :D :clap :D :banana :D

Dallara



~

Hondo Cat
16th December 2008, 01:37
If you live in a state that trundles along behind the Washington, D.C. wagon of excessive bureaucracy then I feel for you...

Me, I like living down here where it's still warm, we can legally carry guns on our person, gasoline is cheap, and there's more land than people... :D :banana :D :clap :D :banana :D

Well stated from the Republic of Texas. :clap

Ralphthe3rd
16th December 2008, 01:37
Well Brian, let me guess...you have a Beard ?! :doh

Ralph, I am at Steel City HD in Washington PA, near Pittsburgh. My name is Brian, everyone calls me Beardo...

scouts
16th December 2008, 04:56
Ya could always see what the epa says for themselves.........

http://www.epa.gov/otaq/regs/roadbike/420f03045.pdf

OBJMS33
16th December 2008, 06:00
In Ca your out of luck if you need to smog anything that has been modified. So you can do it till you need new tags. Some just reverse the mods for the smog and forget about it. I'm afraid I dont recall the details but my neighbor got some emails last year from his dealer on this subject warning people of the legal consequences and that they would no longer be performing certain mods at dealers anymore. I also recall New York Mikes dealership (San Diego Harley) getting fined for I believe 10-20 bikes exhaust systems that were determined to be illegal by Ca nazi standards. There was also the case brought against Jesse James for all the bikes he has built here. So things are changing. I believe James settle that case out of court, even though his bikes and I think most emit less than a car mods or not. Sorry my comments are vague as to the facts on this.
John

Moved On / My Own Choice
16th December 2008, 13:51
That sounds like something Kev would say:smoke

Uh actually no it doesn't :rolleyes:

I've never been against accessories, or even reasonable exhaust modifications and retuning DESPITE the legal status of the later.

I'm going for a HD instead of a BMW or Ducati...doesn't that mean I'm supposed to be anti-authority and not care about the EPA and the Feds??? :D

Welcome to the mad house - as a multi-time BMW owner - good decision.

Ya could always see what the epa says for themselves.........

http://www.epa.gov/otaq/regs/roadbike/420f03045.pdf

BINGO

Dallara you're arguing enforcement not legality. Truth is, EPA states it directly, it IS illegal IF it causes the motorcycle to operate out of emissions standards, and let's face it the amount of aftermarket performance accessories that meet both noise and tail-pipe emissions is a VERY VERY VERY short list.

Would new emission standards make it illegal to
customize my motorcycle?

Many motorcycle owners personalize their motorcycles. Indeed, this is one of the joys of owning a motorcycle, and owners take their freedom to customize motorcycles very seriously. We are not changing existing provisions of section 203(a) of the Clean Air Act, as established in 1977, which states that it is illegal “for any person to remove or render inoperative any device or element of design installed on or in a motor vehicle or motor vehicle engine in compliance with regulations under this title...after such sale and delivery to the ultimate purchaser...”. In other words, owners of motor vehicles cannot legally make modifications that cause the emissions to exceed the applicable emissions standards, and they cannot remove or disable emission control devices installed by the manufacturer.

We use the term “tampering” to refer specifically to actions that are illegal under section 203 of the Clean Air Act; the term, and the prohibition, do not apply generally to the wide range of things that a motorcycle enthusiast can do to legally personalize their vehicle, only to actions that cause the emissions to exceed the standards. The new emissions standards do not change this “tampering” prohibition. In fact, it is not within EPA’s ability or discretion to change this statutory prohibition, which Congress put in place more than 20 years ago. Owners are still free generally to customize their motorcycles in any way, as long as they do not disable emission controls or cause the motorcycle to exceed the emission standards.

scouts
16th December 2008, 21:04
yup, that's why I posted the link. This has been beat to death on about all forums. If ya change anything from the air/gas in to the end of the tailpipe, your pretty much illegal, period. Gets worse with the newer regs, the driveline is certified, meaning right down to the gear ratio, right from the air/gas in to the rear tire. Hows about that.
Point taken that will anyone ever enforce it? Majority of the time no. States with inspections will get some of it. Cops with an agenda will, like getting Al Capone on taxes. Some bike shops in CA got busted with fines not too long ago for aftermarket exhausts. I wouldn't loose sleep over it, but I wouldn't blow it off entirely either. Don't know if it has been discussed on here or not, but also will be limited to one "custom" bike (made/titled/exception) per person, etc, etc.

Dallara
17th December 2008, 00:18
~


Well, correct me if I'm wrong...

But the last I checked a state or local member of the constabulary cannot cite you for violating a FEDERAL statute, nor can a state or local court try a FEDERAL case. Only a FEDERAL officer can cite or arrest and only FEDERAL court can handle true-blue EPA case...

So, until the federal government forms an EPA police force and suddenly desires to fill up federal courts with trivial cases involving individuals changing the exhaust system on their motorcycles we are all pretty safe.

As I have stated previously, only if the STATE mandates following and enforcing federal EPA guidelines as their own in that state do you run the risk of getting cited, fined, tried, convicted, etc. And remember that some states, such as California, actually have stiffer and tougher emission control regulations and mandates than the EPA, and not just on vehicles.

The EPA primarily concentrates on policing and enforcing their regulations as they apply to the MANUFACTURERS. One of the reasons is that they are an easy target and it is relatively simple for them to ensure compliance from those manufacturers. Plus if they do find a violation the fine can actually amount to something. Not so with the penalties for individuals.

It's like when Jimmy Carter wanted a federal mandate that you had to set your home thermostat at 78 degrees... What was he going to do to enforce it? Have a new arm of the federal government called the "Thermostat Police" under the "Office of Homeland Internal Temperature"? ;)

If you want to fear federal marshals breaking down your door to give you a "Header Ticket" that's fine with me... :cheers

But me, I know I don't worry about it a bit here in Texas. Most of my bikes have different exhausts, airbox or intake mods, different ECU's, etc. and even both my trucks have highly modified intake and exhaust set-ups. I operated a large multi-line new car dealership until one year ago and we did state inspections, etc. every day... And we even got visits from the EPA...

But ya' know what?

The EPA guys were always there to inspect our gasoline fueling tanks, our waste oil recovery systems, and battery storage areas... Never - not one time - was a word uttered about vehicular emissions, vehicle modifications, or EPA compliance of vehicles new, used, or in service.

Just FYI... YMMV, as well as your opinions.

Thanks!

Dallara



~

hawk mechanic
17th December 2008, 00:52
I think that this thread should be renamed. How many posts in it where actually about who has ordered an XR?

Joe

biknut
17th December 2008, 01:00
In Texas they don't test Motorcycles for emissions, but they do cars and trucks.

Moved On / My Own Choice
17th December 2008, 03:08
I think that this thread should be renamed. How many posts in it where actually about who has ordered an XR?

Joe

If that were the case we'd have to rename half the threads on this board. ;)


Dallara - you're still arguing minutia of enforcement not actual legality...

Dallara
17th December 2008, 04:02
~

In Texas they don't test Motorcycles for emissions, but they do cars and trucks.


Not down here in South Texas. As I said before, we were never required to in my new car dealership (which handled Lincoln-Mercury, Jeep, and Subaru), or even in another dealership we previously sold (that handled everything that GM made but Cadillac)...

Not by the Feds, the State of Texas, or the two different counties the stores were in. In Texas the requirement by the State to check emissions is handled on a county by county basis - primarily based on population density. The larger metropolitan areas are targeted for enforcement, and as such dealerships and inspection facilities are required to have "sniffers" (gas analyzers) to check for compliance.

But not everywhere in Texas... ;)


And Kev M said:


"Dallara - you're still arguing minutia of enforcement not actual legality..."


Certainly true from one viewpoint, Kev... But then again, I see an awful lot of "arguing minutia" around here, ol' buddy! :D

LOTS OF IT!!! :laugh

Hell, so much of it I thought we were required to argue minutia... :o

But I'll leave the subject now with but one final thought:

IT'S ONLY ILLEGAL IF YOU GET CAUGHT!!! :clap

Thanks!

Dallara




~

biknut
17th December 2008, 04:10
~
But not everywhere in Texas... ;)
~

The hell you say! I really didn't know that. I've always lived in Dallas. I just thought it was the same all over the state.

Moved On / My Own Choice
17th December 2008, 15:41
And Kev M said:





Certainly true from one viewpoint, Kev... But then again, I see an awful lot of "arguing minutia" around here, ol' buddy! :D

LOTS OF IT!!! :laugh

Hell, so much of it I thought we were required to argue minutia... :o

But I'll leave the subject now with but one final thought:

IT'S ONLY ILLEGAL IF YOU GET CAUGHT!!! :clap

Thanks!

Dallara




~

Touche - though I'll parry and counter with - at least when I argue minutia I'm on the winning side.

You are technically still wrong.

It's illegal whether or not you get caught, however you only suffer the consequences IF caught. ;) It's a morality play. :wonderlan

Dallara
17th December 2008, 16:02
~


Touche - though I'll parry and counter with - at least when I argue minutia I'm on the winning side.



My, my... I had no idea you were so humble, Kev. :rolleyes:



You are technically still wrong.



Am I really? :rolleyes:



It's illegal whether or not you get caught, however you only suffer the consequences IF caught.



And here all this time I thought, and was always taught, that I lived in a country where one was INNOCENT until PROVEN guilty... :rolleyes:



It's a morality play.



No, it's not... It's a web forum. :rolleyes:

And here in Texas, individual counties are given waivers by the State and DPS so there does not have to be testing in those counties for emissions. I happen to live in one of those.

If there are NO charges of a crime, NO evidence of a crime, and NO prosecution of a crime... And particularly in this case or a case like it... There is NO VICTIM of a crime and NO ONE IS INJURED NOR PROPERTY DAMAGED... And the STATE mandates that a federal statute be ignored due to it being inappropriate for the circumstance or situation...

Is it really illegal?

Isn't this a constitutional republic that we live in? ;)

Dallara



~

hawk mechanic
17th December 2008, 16:30
I think that I need to find a set of LOUD pipes for the XR before I go riding with Kev again:smoke.
I know how much he would like that. I am sure that everyone of us break the laws every day. Whether it be rolling though a stop sign, or going a few miles over the speed limit. Some times we may go way outside the laws, or or just a little. Anyway you look at it, it is wrong. The same goes with the pipes. In the end, if it doesn't effect me, oh-well, let them be. Now it somebody is being stupid and blatant that is going to effect the rest of our community, maybe something should be done about it. I know that this is just good spirited talk, but holy shi:censor. Anyway, that is just my .02

Joe

Moved On / My Own Choice
17th December 2008, 16:51
~

Am I really? :rolleyes:

And here all this time I thought, and was always taught, that I lived in a country where one was INNOCENT until PROVEN guilty... :rolleyes:



Again, you're trying to argue a technicality.

Innocent vs. guilty is with regards to conviction in a court of law.

That has NOTHING to do with you with the REALITY of your actions (between you, yourself and possibly a higher power).

An action that breaks the law is illegal whether or not you are caught and convicted.

It's not like the defintion of a sound - if you break the speed limit in a forest and no-one is there to hear it or catch it on radar/vascar YOU STILL BROKE THE LAW - you just won't suffer the consequences.

THIS is the subtlety that your argument ignores.

You call it legal just because you're not caught.

Kev

Moved On / My Own Choice
17th December 2008, 16:52
I know how much he would like that. I am sure that everyone of us break the laws every day. Whether it be rolling though a stop sign, or going a few miles over the speed limit.

YES, but that doesn't make the action technically LEGAL.

hawk mechanic
17th December 2008, 16:55
YES, but that doesn't make the action technically LEGAL.

That's what I was saying. I know that I break the law all of the time.

Joe

Moved On / My Own Choice
17th December 2008, 16:56
That's what I was saying. I know that I break the law all of the time.

Joe

Dallara wants us to believe that he's not breaking the law when he does the same thing...just because he's not convicted and/or caught.

hawk mechanic
17th December 2008, 16:59
Other peoples kids. What can you say?

Joe

Dallara
17th December 2008, 16:59
~


You're right, Kev. You're always right, regardless the subject. You even know more about Texas state law than I do, no doubt... :rolleyes:

You are omnipotent, all knowing, and all seeing, right? :rolleyes:

You are the "higher power" on this forum, or at least represent one, right? :rolleyes:

And you are never wrong, right? :rolleyes:

Ya' know... You must have a very big family, because you've got relatives on every web forum I've ever seen. :D

And your bikes are completely stock so you can sleep at night, right? :rolleyes:

Dallara



~

Moved On / My Own Choice
17th December 2008, 17:07
~
You're right, Kev. You're always right, regardless the subject. You even know more about Texas state law than I do, no doubt... :rolleyes:

You are omnipotent, all knowing, and all seeing, right? :rolleyes:

You are the "higher power" on this forum, or at least represent one, right? :rolleyes:

And you are never wrong, right? :rolleyes:



This has nothing to do with Texas state law, it has to do with federal law which states can and may put FURTHER restrictions on but cannot make less stringent. That's just how it works.

:dunno why are you so bitter about this.

ALL I DID was point out that you were arguing a technicality.

Just cause your wrong ON THIS subject doesn't mean I claim I'm always right about everything or that I've made any claims that should draw from you such sarcasm and bitterness.

~

Ya' know... You must have a very big family, because you've got relatives on every web forum I've ever seen. :D


I missing the joke ???



And your bikes are completely stock so you can sleep at night, right? :rolleyes:


No where IN my discussion of this or any other subject have I made a claim that I "do no wrong"???

And for the record one of the three is completely stock with regards to the powertrain. One is probably within legal limits, but has some questionable modifications regarding what are probably non DOT approved LED brake lights. The Harley is VERY close to stock and MIGHT actually meet EPA regs, especially if Harley's claims about their new SE mufflers being EPA legal are true.

Midas
17th December 2008, 18:08
"The law is an ass"

http://i42.tinypic.com/f00y94.jpg

biknut
17th December 2008, 18:35
Bill Clinton proved that if you're not lawyer there's no way for a laymen to know if any law is broken, so unless you've been convicted of something there's no reason to believe you're breaking, or have broken any law.

XR1200Sportster
17th December 2008, 21:19
Blissful ignorance kicks @ss!!!

Midas
17th December 2008, 22:11
~



Ya' know... You must have a very big family, because you've got relatives on every web forum I've ever seen. :D




~
You just know thats funny.......http://i40.tinypic.com/2edpahg.gif But come on, really, it is funny. :D

XR1200Sportster
17th December 2008, 23:10
You just know thats funny....... But come on, really, it is funny.

That was f@cking funny!!!

OBJMS33
18th December 2008, 03:33
So I dropped by a local dealer today, and they tell me they've taken 12 deposits and have another 20 on order in addition to that. But yet they have not delivered any yet. Meanwhile another dealer I talked too has had one on the floor for a week. Yet I get the impression here that interest at the dealer has been weak at best and many people we know of got their bikes well before any of us expected. They also told me they sell more bikes than anyone in the country.:dunno Just thought I would throw that out there for ya to mull over.
John

Midas
18th December 2008, 03:38
So I dropped by a local dealer today, and they tell me they've taken 12 deposits and have another 20 on order in addition to that. But yet they have not delivered any yet. Meanwhile another dealer I talked too has had one on the floor for a week. Yet I get the impression here that interest at the dealer has been weak at best and many people we know of got their bikes well before any of us expected. They also told me they sell more bikes than anyone in the country.:dunno Just thought I would throw that out there for ya to mull over.
John

I cant really see why you folks are so obsessed about how many, and how fast these things sell.!

OBJMS33
18th December 2008, 03:52
That's not the point, the guy was obviously completely full of it. 12 pre-orders and yet a dealer 20 more miles away has had one on the floor for a week?? And they haven't even seen their first one? "and we sell the most bikes in than anyone in the country" ?? Guy expects me to believe they are gonna sell 32 of these bikes??????? I walk into a HD for the second time in my life and this is the crap i'm fed??

OBJMS33
18th December 2008, 03:58
I agree some seem a little obsessed with this part of the topic. For me, I don't really care too much one way or the other. IF... I buy one I would not mind it being discontinued, It would make it that much more unique for me. To a small degree it is interesting to speculate on HD future and how this will benefit them considering the economy and things like that. The most important reason this would matter to me is if it will be around long enough for me to get one.

scouts
18th December 2008, 04:28
salesmen are salesmen, doesn't matter if they are selling Kia's or Harleys. I couldn't even guess how many HD dealerships I have been in that I wouldn't buy a damn lawn mower from. That's not to say they are all bad, not all car dealerships are bad. well, I guess bad is relative for car dealers. I digress, but point is, yes, your right, don't get too upset, thats just the way it is. lots of HD dealers are a**holes. Try going to one and getting a part for a non-HD, hell, go mention "Indian" at a few, lol. Some are cool about it, gotta say that, but that's "some". Some come to beleive the rub lifestyle they are sellin

biknut
18th December 2008, 04:35
Try going to one and getting a part for a non-HD, hell, go mention "Indian" at a few, lol. Some are cool about it, gotta say that, but that's "some". Some come to beleive the rub lifestyle they are sellin

You think that's bad? Try asking for a Buell part. For a few seconds they just look back at you like you're speaking a foreign language. Then they tell you they don't stock it.

OBJMS33
18th December 2008, 08:52
Yeah I realized I was coming off with another stealership rant. A beat to death subject. I was just floored by the endless ignorance of these people. Years ago I worked in a warehouse for a home store and learned from a salesman friend of mine his point of view. He said I could sell these people marble bathroom this and that but, I ask them what they want show them their options. They leave happy he makes less per sale but makes more sales overall and the other salesman hated him for it. Considering the knowledge of the educated consumer I am still surprised that the majority of sales people dont understand this. The other dealer has taken the time to answer all my emails(many). I was impressed, I have never had a company respond to their online support options.

I guess I was just trying to point out how varied this seems to be from each individuals experience.
John

Moved On / My Own Choice
18th December 2008, 15:25
You think that's bad? Try asking for a Buell part. For a few seconds they just look back at you like you're speaking a foreign language. Then they tell you they don't stock it.

Try asking for a Buell part that you plan on using on your Moto Guzzi - their little heads explode... :doh:laugh

XR1200Sportster
18th December 2008, 16:16
Try asking for a Buell part that you plan on using on your Moto Guzzi - their little heads explode...


Thats not funny!!! My head really did explode!!

vecchio lupo
18th December 2008, 17:17
H-D/Buell of Baton Rouge was great when I asked about mirrors for my Moto Guzzi V11 LeMans.
I had the Buell part numbers at the ready, he looked them up and since they were in stock, I got genuine Italian Mirrors for $14 each instead of $60 from Piaggio. when I showed the Buell parts guy that Buell uses alot of Italian sourced parts like CEV, he was happy to learn he had a new customer base.

Dallara
18th December 2008, 17:24
H-D/Buell of Baton Rouge was great when I asked about mirrors for my Moto Guzzi V11 LeMans.
I had the Buell part numbers at the ready, he looked them up and since they were in stock, I got genuine Italian Mirrors for $14 each instead of $60 from Piaggio. when I showed the Buell parts guy that Buell uses alot of Italian sourced parts like CEV, he was happy to learn he had a new customer base.


Hmmmm...

Just out of curiosity, which Buell model mirrors are you speaking of specifically???

Any pics???

I'm asking having to do with another bike I am working on... Not an H-D, Guzzi, or Buell - but Italian! :D

Thanks!

Dallara



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Moved On / My Own Choice
18th December 2008, 17:31
H-D/Buell of Baton Rouge was great when I asked about mirrors for my Moto Guzzi V11 LeMans.
I had the Buell part numbers at the ready, he looked them up and since they were in stock, I got genuine Italian Mirrors for $14 each instead of $60 from Piaggio. when I showed the Buell parts guy that Buell uses alot of Italian sourced parts like CEV, he was happy to learn he had a new customer base.

Yup Buell does use a lot of Italian parts - I believe their turn signals come from the same Italian company that supplies Moto Guzzi.

Amazing how Harley/Buell have managed to use that relationship to get pricing DRAMATICALLY better than Piaggio/Guzzi.

superwarden
18th December 2008, 17:36
http://www.newsinferno.com/wp-includes/images/Train-Derail-3.jpg


I think this has some sililarities with this thread :) Not that I really care, just getting bored....

biknut
18th December 2008, 21:40
I just went to the Harley shop to do a little Xmas shopping. They had one XR in stock. You might be able to get a deal on it because it's slightly used. It has 200 miles on it. Some guy bought it, but decided he wanted a "bigger bike" the salesman said. Someone probably told him it was a girls bike.

Anyway it's in Harley Davidson of North Texas. They're asking $10,999, but probably will take less.
http://xlforum.net/photopost/data/500/medium/XR_rear.jpg

Moved On / My Own Choice
18th December 2008, 21:41
I just went to the Harley shop to do a little Xmas shopping. They had one XR in stock. You might be able to get a deal on it because it's slightly used. It has 200 miles on it. Some guy bought it, but decided he wanted a "bigger bike" the salesman said. Someone probably told him it was a girls bike.

Anyway it's in Harley Davidson of North Texas. They're asking $10,999, but probably will take less.
http://xlforum.net/photopost/data/500/medium/XR_rear.jpg

Isn't that Towjams?

dirt rider
18th December 2008, 22:42
That's not the point, the guy was obviously completely full of it. 12 pre-orders and yet a dealer 20 more miles away has had one on the floor for a week?? And they haven't even seen their first one? "and we sell the most bikes in than anyone in the country" ?? Guy expects me to believe they are gonna sell 32 of these bikes??????? I walk into a HD for the second time in my life and this is the crap i'm fed??

Here in Canada, there must be some collusion going on. I've talked to some dealers that aren't interested in selling to someone out of their area. They just say they've already taken deposits for their allocation. Must be that Harley Davidson and their dealers are immune to the current economic problems. I can afford to pay the list price, but refuse to feel like a sucker.:frownthre

Dallara
18th December 2008, 23:53
~



So I dropped by a local dealer today, and they tell me they've taken 12 deposits and have another 20 on order in addition to that. But yet they have not delivered any yet...


Well, the real question you have to ask yourself is this...

If they have so many deposits and so many on order, HOW COME THEY HAVEN'T EVER HAD ONE THERE ON HAND YET??? :dunno

Since the H-D pre-order period was "officially" from Dec 1 to Dec 15 then you would have to figure at least a deposit or two of those twelve would be people who would want to get their XR1200 in the early batch and take delivery by now...

Something doesn't quite add up in that dealer's story.

Just my two cents... YMMV.

Dallara



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OBJMS33
19th December 2008, 04:02
Yeah that's why I thought I would bring it up. The guy couldn't just embellish a little. He had to out right lie with totally outrageous figures. It was light years away from what has been reported here. And I don't think anyone here needs to bs for any reason.
John

Furyus
19th December 2008, 04:23
Here in Canada, there must be some collusion going on. I've talked to some dealers that aren't interested in selling to someone out of their area. They just say they've already taken deposits for their allocation. Must be that Harley Davidson and their dealers are immune to the current economic problems. I can afford to pay the list price, but refuse to feel like a sucker.:frownthre

At list price, $900 more than a 1200N, the bike is a bargain. I paid list, and I work for H-D.

Call me a sucker if you like, but I bought a great bike.

furyus

OBJMS33
19th December 2008, 04:45
Your a sucker. And you have a great bike!!!:)

dirt rider
19th December 2008, 05:52
At list price, $900 more than a 1200N, the bike is a bargain. I paid list, and I work for H-D.

Call me a sucker if you like, but I bought a great bike.

furyus

Would you feel like a sucker if you had to pay 35% more than the U.S. price when the exchange rate is about 22%? That's not anything to do with government charges either. And then have to wait until April. I wasn't expecting a big discount , but $150 just seemed rude, and the price was subject to change. Everything else seems to be available with $2000 of free extras at the least. You guys here put me onto some new Street Rods and now I've found at least 28 more. I'm hoping to get one of them home for about $3000 less than an XR and I'll keep my XL. No such thing as too many toys.