Before I picked up my new 07 1200R, I wanted them to do a Stage 1.

I was first told that included pipes, air cleaner and a remap. Then I was called & told that the remaps aren't very successful, so I should get a Race Tuner. I read on this forum that that's most likely bullshit, but I figured that I might make changes down the road anyways, so I paid for the race tuner.

Since the dealer keeps you 'on file', they said that I don't need the media.

But I am now wondering what exactly the Race Tuner is. I mean, I understand that instead of remapping ONCE, the Race Tuner allows you to change things multiple times.

But does it only work with Harley stuff, or would it work with other aftermarket stuff, like V&H pipes, hi-perf air cleaners, etc?

ANY info on Racetuners would be appreciated.

The Screaming Eagle Race Tuner, or SERT, is the software, the dongle which connects to your ecm, and in some cases a cable, but I'm told that the cable is seperate now.

You should get your software and the dongle if you paid for it; it will only be good on your motorcycle since it writes your vin # on it.

You should also get a copy of your map, but it's unlikely that they would give it... It would be good to have a backup copy of your map with you in case something were to happen out on the road and you needed to reload your map for some reason.

If you don't get a copy of your map you will have to start from scratch if you need to change your map again, unless you use your dealer which is what they want. It's highly likely that they used a canned map, which comes with the SERT anyway, but you can't read or extract the map that is in the ECM with the SERT.

The SERT lists for around 460.00 US retail, so if you paid for it you should get all that comes with it...

What is the difference between the Race Tuner and the V & H Fuel Pack?

Barry

The V&H Fuel Pack is an add on unit that controls the fuel, as I understand it.

The Screaming Eagle Race Tuner can be used to remap your ECU with no add on. The SERT looks like it can be as simple, (downloading a canned map) or as detailed as you want it to be ( ability to do advanced tuning).

Zippers makes an interesting unit called AutoTune, which is designed to use wide band O2 sensors and run closed loop all of the time. It works in conjunction with their ECU.

I found a pretty good explanation of how all this works at the following links:

http://www.nightrider.com/biketech/motorcycle_efi_basics.htm

http://www.nightrider.com/biketech/motorcycle_efi_upgrades.htm

Barry

Before I picked up my new 07 1200R, I wanted them to do a Stage 1.

I was first told that included pipes, air cleaner and a remap. Then I was called & told that the remaps aren't very successful, so I should get a Race Tuner. I read on this forum that that's most likely bullshit, but I figured that I might make changes down the road anyways, so I paid for the race tuner.

Since the dealer keeps you 'on file', they said that I don't need the media.

But I am now wondering what exactly the Race Tuner is. I mean, I understand that instead of remapping ONCE, the Race Tuner allows you to change things multiple times.

But does it only work with Harley stuff, or would it work with other aftermarket stuff, like V&H pipes, hi-perf air cleaners, etc?

ANY info on Racetuners would be appreciated.

I know it was said that a Race Tuner was bullshit and I know some folks seem to be having success without one but I can tell you that my bike needs one. This is one case where I don't think the MoCo is completely full of shit and just trying to make a buck. I noticed enough lean condition with just a muffler swap that I won't even consider an a/c until I have the Race Tuner.

What the Race Tuner does is provide the dyno tech extensive tune-ability across a broad spectrum. Not just fuel input at given rpm's. They can truly adjust the AFR across the rpm band, adjust idle, and a lot more. Somewhere on this forum someone posted an excellent detailed description of all the things the Race Tuner is capable of but I can't find it right now.

HD sells a unit similar to the VH Fuel Pak but I can't recall the name just now. That essentially, as was said, just tricks the chip into dumping more fuel into the system. No real tune-ability and certainly not in the many ways and with the accuracy the Race Tuner allows.

And yes, it will work with whatever combo you put on as it is not specific to particular parts. It's simply reading and adjusting for increased air into and out of the engine. It doesn't care if more is getting in through a Forcewinder or a SEII and it doesn't care if more air is going out through SE's or V&H's. It's just the air volume that matters.

I believe you made the right decision and I'm currently saving up the money so I can have one by spring. An hour on the dyno with a good tech and your bike should run like a dream.

Thanks for the responses, guys.

:tour

Can anyone advise me of what the difference is between the Race Tuner and
the HD EFI Race Fueler, PN 32173-07. Is the latter one an "add on" like the
FuelPak from Vance Hines? Any help here will be greatly appreciated.
Have read the links that Roadhog gave and they were extremely helpful but
I still don't know the difference between the Race Tuner and the RaceFueler.
For sure I will be doing the same as GOTWA and changing the ECM even if
all I add on are the V & H Slip-ons. Thanks guys.

Can anyone advise me of what the difference is between the Race Tuner and
the HD EFI Race Fueler, PN 32173-07. Is the latter one an "add on" like the
FuelPak from Vance Hines? Any help here will be greatly appreciated.
Have read the links that Roadhog gave and they were extremely helpful but
I still don't know the difference between the Race Tuner and the RaceFueler.
For sure I will be doing the same as GOTWA and changing the ECM even if
all I add on are the V & H Slip-ons. Thanks guys.

Race Fueler, that's it. :doh

Both the Race Tuner and Race Fueler are "in-line plug-in" devices. They do not replace your ECM. They simply make adjustments to your ECM. When they say your stock ECM isn't adjustable they are right and wrong. As it sits, it is not adjustable. But a Race Tuner allows it to be adjusted.

The Race Fueler works on the same premise as the V&H Fuel Pak. Dumps more fuel in the system to compensate for more air flow. A less than ideal solution. I spoke directly to the dyno tech and they've tried some Race Fueler's on the '07 bikes and he was honest in saying they had some success and got the bikes running pretty good. But they could not tune them across the band and it ate fuel mileage.

Yes the Fueler is half the price of the Tuner and yes $460 is steep. But, I think the broad and accurate adjustability makes it worth it.

There is the other option of buying an aftermarket ECM such as the TwinTech. If you've got a laptop and get the cables you can write your own maps and dial it in yourself. Turbota has spent a lot of time doing just that on his carb bike. The plus to this is you can make adjustments yourself as oppossed to relying on the dyno tech. Me personally, I'm not going to sink a grand (with laptop, cable, etc.) into that. And I like having the bike tuned on the dyno.

I'll get another older carb'd bike some day and I'll do my playing and tweaking with it.

The Powercommander is another popular option, but I don't really like the fact that they disconnect the O2 sensors, which you don't have to do with the SERT. I found an 05 SERT manual that I downloaded at another site. It would be a lot of fun to play with... You really don't have to have a laptop computer to use the SERT, except for the data logging capabilities.

I still like the idea behind the Zippers Autotune, which would make dyno tuning a thing of the past...

Gotwa,
Thanks for the excellent explanation, I really like the idea of using the RaceTuner vs the Fueler just have to come to terms with the cost.
Least ways now I can make a somewhat more intelligent decision.

I have ordered the Race Fueler, and, according to UPS tracking, it will be here tomorrow! I'll let folks know how it works (and if it works). I hope to do "before/after" dyno numbers. UPDATE: The Race Fueler has arrived. It includes warnings about warrenty being voided, using only off-road, etc...Gee, those guys are trying to scare us into not touching out bikes. As it is, the installation seems straight-forward, although I am still waiting for my service manual (EFI version) to arrive.
UPDATE: It arrived today and the installation appears to be staightforward.

Anyone knows about a cheaper aftermarket alternative to the race tuner?

I just don't like the idea that the race tuner "marries" itself to one spesific ECM, and then cannot be used for other bikes. Also, I think it would be nice to be able to download from the ECM the actual map that is in there, not burning a new map into it only.

The Dynojet Power Commander PCIII is a popular and less expensive option. However, it eliminates the use of your O2 sensors: no closed loop operation. I have friends who are using the Dynojet Power Comander and are happy with the results.

It's not the way I would go, but you can use it on another motorcycle if you want, and it is somewhat cheaper; I think around 290.00 U.S.

can you only get the race tuner dynotuned at a harley dealer? I havent done anything to my bike yet but want to do a stage1 soon, been waiting on cycleshacks slips for over a month on backorder,getting tired of waiting might go with something else like te pythons any sugestions? PCIII or race tuner ? If you get pipes and AC then down the road you do some cams how much will you have to spend everytime you make a change?:tour

can you only get the race tuner dynotuned at a harley dealer? I havent done anything to my bike yet but want to do a stage1 soon, been waiting on cycleshacks slips for over a month on backorder,getting tired of waiting might go with something else like te pythons any sugestions? PCIII or race tuner ? If you get pipes and AC then down the road you do some cams how much will you have to spend everytime you make a change?:tour

Anyone with the ability should be able to tune with the Race Tuner. The SERT comes with maps which will be close to your application, maybe close enough enough without much tuning. I believe that a lot of dealerships just pick a "canned" or pre-made map, and do little if any tuning. So if you have the SERT you can download one of these maps yourself if you want...

So, how much it will cost to download each time depends... If you can do it yourself, which after looking at the manual, I have no doubt that many on this site would be able to do, it will cost nothing. But, most likely you will have to pay for dyno time...

Just depends on who you have do the tuning. Most tuners will want to work with what the know best. So an independent shop might not want to use the SERT and prefer something else. My local dyno guy sells Power Commanders, and prefers them, but he advertises that can tune the SERT, although he admits he doesn't have a lot experience using the SERT.

yeah the local shop I went to also recommened to me the PCIII over the HD Race tuner, but if the PCIII bypasses the O2, will that be a problem? Anyway I settled on a pair of V&H slips , and I am considering a force XR AC. how about the fuelpack or race fueler? I'd love to see how well it does on a dyno.:tour :tour :tour