When I first saw the pics of the XR I was so damn excited, loved it, best thing I'd seen in ages, wanted one sooo bad.. My dealer even offered to take a deposit from me.

Month or so on, I just went and looked at the pics again.. can't help but feel 'what the hell was I thinking? That thing is HIDEOUS'..

The tail is ugly as sin, the exhaust is just plain wrong.. the whole thing just looks awful, no styling subtlety at all.

I look at the Storz XR and it looks 'right', smooth, subtle, streamlined and designwise holds together.

Guess I need to reserve judgement until I see one in the flesh.. But boy I hope they make some changes, I've really gone off it.

Anyone else a 'bit over it'?

I bet it'll look even better in person. Stock Sportsters don't tend to photograph very well, imho- but that XR (at least the pics that Bert took) look really nice, so I can only imagine how good it will look in the flesh.

Nope. Still wanting.

I'd make my own modifications if I got one. Most people change something on their Sportsters. The first thing I'd do is add forward controls.










:sofa

still want one

I thought the opposite about the Stortz kits. They did not flow well and were conflicting with the rest of the bike. The Stortz kit doesnt match the wheels , small tires, swingarm, etc. The HD Xr1200 is an all around package. Something that I have been waiting for for a long time. Unlike the Stortz kit, the XR looks finished and complete.
DOnt get me wrong, I will replace the exhaust with a Force piece, supertrapp or something like that. I will try and squeeze a 200 tire back there. Nallin will eventually get the heads( when custom tuning becomes available), and the list goes on. One thing is for sure though; HD got it right this time. When can we get one????????:tour :tour

I thought the same thing about the Stortz kits. They did not flow well and were conflicting with the rest of the bike. The Stortz kit doesnt match the wheels , small tires, swingarm, etc. The HD Xr1200 is an all around package. Something that I have been waiting for for a long time. Unlike the Stortz kit, the XR looks finished and complete.
DOnt get me wrong, I will replace the exhaust with a Force piece, supertrapp or something like that. I will try and squeeze a 200 tire back there. Nallin will eventually get the heads( when custom tuning becomes available), and the list goes on. One thing is for sure though; HD got it right this time. When can we get one????????:tour :tour

Umm...okay...?...I read this:

...I look at the Storz XR and it looks 'right', smooth, subtle, streamlined and designwise holds together...
and get a completely different take on what Mr.Mow is saying. I think that Mr.Mow is saying that Storz got it right and HD got it wrong...

But who knows...I've been wrong before...:dunno



Oh yah...almost forgot...no I haven't changed my mind; I still think the XR1200 is fugly...

Nope. Still wanting.

+1


I actually never liked the Storz kit... I prefer the HD prototype!

:tour

I haven't changed my mind! There will never be on in my garage. Hideous - good word.

+1

I actually never liked the Storz kit... I prefer the HD prototype!

:tour

I prefer the HD XR over the Storz. I still like the Storz XR1200, and there's a color laser print blown up on my wall, but with a sharp 2 into 1 exhaust I'll take the Harley XR1200. Besides, I don't think a XR1200 should end up costing $30K, or whatever it came to (I have the actual cost in a writeup at work) at Storz.

the jury is still out here, I really like the xr1200 , I think it is pretty cool , but I wonder what I could have if I took the difference in price between my 04, 1200r and what an xr would cost and went to visit the boys at nallin and said make it fast?

Umm...okay...?...I read this:


and get a completely different take on what Mr.Mow is saying. I think that Mr.Mow is saying that Storz got it right and HD got it wrong...

But who knows...I've been wrong before...:dunno



Oh yah...almost forgot...no I haven't changed my mind; I still think the XR1200 is fugly...
OOPS! I messed up. I meant the opposite. Thanks for correcting me. I was leaving work when I typed that.:(
HD did get it right. More complete than Stortz.

I personally think it's unfair to compare a stock production (or soon to be) motorcycle like the XR to a custom manufactured bike like the storz.There's very few design constraints imposed on customs,ie price and production line considerations.Apples and oranges!

I think Mr. Mow is saying this so he can keep all of them himself. Personally, though I don't plan to buy one I still think it looks great. Each to his/her own.

The first thing I would change would be to put drag pipes on,then forward controls ,and last 21" ape hangers.Then it would look really cool.

Thought it was ugly when I saw it still do....If I wanted a Buell I'd buy one...which in my opinion would be a better option.....

i respect the bike that hd has put together, it could be a new line of mc for them, and if you like that style of bike mo power to ya, howerever ITS NO SPORTSTER .its a cafe looking kind of mechine .i my self would prefer amore lower looking less cafe type mc my self .dont get me rong, i'ed still like to take it down the road and fry the tires off the thatmechine.:p

.... howerever ITS NO SPORTSTER

Well there's the quote for the day!

Define "Sportster"

The original XR750, using a modified and destroked Sportster engine. Without the Sportster, the XR would have never been born!

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a191/relayer4u/Sporty/th_IronXR.jpg (http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a191/relayer4u/Sporty/IronXR.jpg)


:banana

Already have the finest hd but if i had the bucks for a 2nd bike it would be a bmw k1200rs, the new 163 rwhp inline four. At $14,800 it's a great price for what you get.

i
if you like that style of bike mo power to ya, howerever ITS NO SPORTSTER .its a cafe looking kind of mechine .i my self would prefer amore lower looking less cafe type mc my self

Amore = Love?

What does Amore have to do with this? Or are we talking about Guzzis and Ducatis again?

:p

Look, like what you like that's cool, but the posturing over whether or not it is a "Sportster" is a tad stupid.

It's as much a Sportster as the first XLH, as the XLCH, as the XLCR...

Not every flavor of Sportster is the same for everyone.

Personally I don't get C models, and only understand L's for Shortys like my wife. But hey, different strokes.

Just remember the first 5 letters of SPORTster is SPORT.

Kev

Already have the finest hd but if i had the bucks for a 2nd bike it would be a bmw k1200rs, the new 163 rwhp inline four. At $14,800 it's a great price for what you get.


Inline, water-cooled 4---- no thanks.

I've enjoyed the K's I've ridden, but if I was going that direction, I'd at least go oilhead.

Still, they have no soul like a V-twin, especially a Harley.

K

XR1200=What sportster should have been if it kept evolving.
I like all sportsters. I think that every model has its purpose for a particular rider. Im also glad to see the descendant of the 1958 XLCH is finally here. This will be my particular model.

I guess my point is.. If you look at the Storz and the original XR's there is a lot of gentle, subtle curves, graceful design points.. also a lot of 'negative space'..

The new XR proto just doesn't have any of that subtlety to it for me, the tail is fat and ugly, no grace to it.. Same with the wheels, the spokes and design don't have any style to them.

I still think its FUGLY.

Well,I sure like that they came up with it. But I doubt I'd ever buy one. The trapdoorless trans just turns me off. Plastic oil tanks, miles of wiring. NO NEED.I keep bikes for a long time and there would eventually come the day....My '04 is finally about done with the dealer warranty tranny rebuild. Took forever to get parts and the dealer had to order the tools,also. The bike will be for sale soon. I was jazzed with the rubber mount idea but for me the '04+ XLs just don't cut it. Too many compromises/cost driven short cuts. I think overall, the XL was not improved in the redesign.

If you look in my gallery you will see what an XRified Sporty can be. That bike weighed 470 wet and had about 85 mild HP. Cost me atotal of about $8K. Plus labor. I hope the XR1200 does not turn out to be a turd. It looks good,a bit chunky. It's amazing it ever saw the light of day from the company that is now H-D. Refreshing.

Any body who wants a semblance of real performance with a Milwaukee powerplant in the middle should consider a late tuber Buell. Fantastic bike and a very big value. They go,corner and stop beyond anything which could be done with a stock XL Chassis. The motorwork is already done and it's an engineered package with reliability. After a ride in the twisties the style grows on you. You can buy 'em for 4Gs. Add another 4Gs if you want a ballistic big inch engine. If the XR is 10 that leaves 2Gs for beer and the XR is gonna get smoked by a 6 year old bike I can work on.

I do like the idea, though. I hope they sell it here. It's cool.

Not my cup o' tea. I'll stick with my custom.

Well there's the quote for the day!

Define "Sportster"


"Sportster"........V twin pushrod motor with a wheel at either end........:)

.... howerever ITS NO SPORTSTER

Well there's the quote for the day!

Define "Sportster"

"Sportster"........V twin pushrod motor with a wheel at either end........:)
Well I guess ben the plumber got it all wrong then.:laugh

Changed my mind? Yeah, I'd rather keep modifying my current Sporty rather than bickering over this and that about a bike we don't know when/if it will be available and how much Harley hopes to profit on it.


but then again, no, I do still like the prototype. Grows on me more and more. I could even learn to like the exhaust.....................maybe.

...Still, they have no soul like a V-twin, especially a Harley...

K
Oh, how I tried to fight it, but you are SO right.

Kim

I agree with the original poster, I am not as excited anymore. I think what got me at first was the expected performance, since I am still trying to make my "pig fly". ;) But the more I look, I do not like the modern styling cues, no matter how much Harley tells me it has the bloodline of a classic XR. I like the fact that people mistake my '03 for a '83.

mike

I wasn't crazy about in the first place.

The tail is ugly as sin, the exhaust is just plain wrong.. the whole thing just looks awful, no styling subtlety at all.

I mentioned before in the first thread that It looked like the boat tail Sportster that didn't sell the first time.(everyone hated it) I've tried a lot of different exhausts, including Thunderheader, and Supertrapp. I've come to the conclusion that Sportsters don't look right without stagered duels, that's just me.


I think it kind of looks like a jap sportster.

Anything post JD is just a plastic jap POS......'zatta 1903 fer a 1983?:laugh

I haven't changed my opinion since I last posted. I agree with Mr. Mow. The Storz XR is best. The Harley XR1200 is too road racer for me.

But this should appeal to the cafe racers shouldn't it? For me it's the flattracker look of the Storz. I'm not going to try to drag my foot peg on asphalt but I will play on the dirt roads around here.

I haven't changed my mind. Glad some have, that will just move the rest of us up on the list to get one!

Oh, how I tried to fight it, but you are SO right.

Kim

Will never be an xr

Will never be an xr


will too :p

says harley - :p

so there - nanny-nanny, poo-poo :wonderlan

No trap door and wobble are real issues for this old fart. Euro style bars are the only change I'd make otherwise. Matt

I love it, now we're assuming a wobble that only a small number of rubbermount XL owners have experienced is GOING to be experienced on a bike that no-one but Harley staff has ridden yet.

Here's a shocker for you, there are some professional riders who were involved in building/testing the XR, they've been working on it in secret for TWO YEARS NOW and they don't have any complaints.

check out the brief article, but more importantly, the XR Video link on the right side, mid-page:

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/Article_Page.aspx?ArticleID=3824&Page=1

+1


I actually never liked the Storz kit... I prefer the HD prototype!

:tour

Kev,
I agree it's a nice looking bike. But, like the Storz and Lawwill, it has too much mass. Just my opinion. It's got two wheels. You can't go wrong.:banana

Well, that can happen...you get swept up in the early excitement and when you come out of the ether a while later, you wind up scratching your head trying to figure out what all the fuss was about. I thought that bike was hideous to begin with, so I haven't changed my mind, but I've had that exact change of heart over other things.

Kev,
I agree it's a nice looking bike. But, like the Storz and Lawwill, it has too much mass. Just my opinion. It's got two wheels. You can't go wrong.:banana

I absolutely agree it's got too much mass...

Well, more than I wanted, but too much, maybe not for me.

No worries... time will tell.

Kev

I have a mountain bike with the Mert Lawwill designed swing-arm and it rocks. It is not as light as most but when your flying down a fire-road crossed up, it sure feels nice. I don't know how many guys on a Sportster will get crazy but the design really works good for keeping the back tire hooked up. It's a parallelogram with multiple pivot points.

I still dig the XR1200. It looks like a blast to ride, and a great all-around bike.;)

Im still waiting for a local dealer to be able to except a deposit. :)

Sounds like the timing might be just about right. Pay off my current bike and get another ;)

Thanks for the link Kev! After viewing I thought I'd say my "issues" were minor. Besides, this thread could use a bump! Matt

If the bike comes in at a cost of below 10K I like it, if it comes in above 10K I don't like it as there are better bikes out there for that kind of money. I just don't see the bike being worth more than 10K for what they're putting on it. I don't mind the look but I wouldn't trade my R model for it........

I want one BAD!!

Still Interested!

Storz. It's more like a real XR. The harley XR1200 is like a jap bike which is okay. But if you're going to call something an XR with heritage then you need to follow through with the concept. If you like the harley XR1200 then great. But what about a real XR tribute? At the least we can still buy the parts to build a bike that looks like it has real XR heritage.

I am curious. What would a real XR tribute look like?

Storz. It's more like a real XR. The harley XR1200 is like a jap bike which is okay. But if you're going to call something an XR with heritage then you need to follow through with the concept. If you like the harley XR1200 then great. But what about a real XR tribute? At the least we can still buy the parts to build a bike that looks like it has real XR heritage.
Holy Shiite I hope KevM doesn't see this...:roflblack

I am curious. What would a real XR tribute look like?

Go Here and you can see the real deal with regards to the XR750 and XR1000.

http://www.ironharley.com/racers.htm

Much like the 50th anniversary bike that everyone was waiting for, the XR1200 in my opinion is a dud too....... It really doesn't matter because people don't buy Harley for performance and the XR1200 will sell performance or not. That as they say is all that counts. I waited, I saw and now I'm buying something else.... I sure would like to know what they're going to sell the XR1200 for.....

I never really liked the looks of it to start with !!

Storz. It's more like a real XR. The harley XR1200 is like a jap bike which is okay. But if you're going to call something an XR with heritage then you need to follow through with the concept. If you like the harley XR1200 then great. But what about a real XR tribute? At the least we can still buy the parts to build a bike that looks like it has real XR heritage.



HEY OLE, LOL....

Duggram . Dude, I gotta know, are you old school closed-minded, or have you been recently schooled to be that way?

I've been dealing with closed-minded Harley riders for decades now.

The type that won't wave to anything but a Harley.

The type that say dumb things like "I'd rather push a Harley than ride a Honda"

The type who are surprised that Showa or Keihin are Japanese companies.

The type who are surprised when some of their HD chrome was made in China.

And it's NORMALLY those types who would be blind enough to call the new prototype a "Jap bike" :frownthre

Look, if Harley suddenly comes out with an inline 4, water-cooled, sportbike with full fairing, THEN YOU CAN DRAW MORE SIMILARITIES to a Jap sportbike than a Harley, but until then, you're just missing the mark.

The Storz may be a closer "replica" to the original XR750, but it's a kit that would cost $20-30k, so you might as well just go have a "custom" builder make you one at that point.

This XR1200 could POSSIBLY be the biggest step Harley has taken to adding performance back into their lineup since Buell and the Vrods, and it's a step closer to the Harley tradition at the same time (air cooled with more traditional lines).

:clap

I still like the bike but, if I was looking to get another bike and the price was comparable, I'd go with a Ducati S2R 1000. Roughly the same HP and 150lbs lighter. If Buells weren't so damn ugly I would consider one of those, too.

This XR1200 could POSSIBLY be the biggest step Harley has taken to adding performance back into their lineup since Buell and the Vrods, and it's a step closer to the Harley tradition at the same time (air cooled with more traditional lines).:clap

You're right but the key term here is their line-up. As long as you hold your comparisons to the Harley/Buell line up your ok. Think outside the box and you have some hurdles to jump much like Buell found out with their not so competitive $30,000 dollar RR that gets stomped by the stock Japenese toys. The XR1200 will sell and they'll sell a tone of aftermarket accessories for it but it will in all fairness remain competative to the Harley/Buell line....... Now, if this is all that floats your boat you'll be fine and this is very cool but don't make it out to be something it's not......

In my dreamworld H-D was successful with the VR-1000 Superbike and it was marketed as a streetbike. (not only in Poland).Of course that never happened and it seems the self-inflicted VR debacle was psychically traumatic to H-D, for a big successful motorcycle company it must have been humbling. But you cannot half-ass it in the big leagues. I think they thought Superbike was still in the 1980's when guys showed up with a van, a bike and maybe a mechanic.With the XR1200 they are playing it pretty safe but it is a pretty neat idea. If it does well,bigger and better things could come. If you really want a killer XR for the street look at Mule Motorcycles or Sundance. Forget that Storz POS.If you want an actual race derived bike H-D ain't your ticket.
H-D clings to the venerable XR-750 because it's all they have as a vestige of competitive motorcycling. Imagine Honda blathering about the 1970-something Elsinore or CB750.

Harley makes some great bikes but in order to have a performance image to market, I <think> there has to be some actual racing success in recent memory. Could be wrong, I'm not a marketing guy. They seem to be able to sell anything. How about a little plastic bottle of water for a dollar?

THis year HD took their 3rd straight NHRA Pro stock title, as well as the AMA Grand National Dirt Track title. (Ya might want to check out that series, with those antique restricted XRs running against unrestricted Suzuki 1000s. Triumph, and 2 italien marques got involved this year as well)

It's a good looking bike, but I can't imagine riding a Sportster with footpegs 8 inches rearward of standard mid controls. Admittedly, I prefer fwds, so the seating position wouldn't work at all for me. I guess fwds could be added, but they wouldn't look right on this bike. The one thing I thought I might want is the exhaust, but the more I see, the less I want. Overall, I think it's got appeal...just not for me........

In my dreamworld H-D was successful with the VR-1000 Superbike and it was marketed as a streetbike. (not only in Poland).Of course that never happened and it seems the self-inflicted VR debacle was psychically traumatic to H-D, for a big successful motorcycle company it must have been humbling. But you cannot half-ass it in the big leagues. I think they thought Superbike was still in the 1980's when guys showed up with a van, a bike and maybe a mechanic.With the XR1200 they are playing it pretty safe but it is a pretty neat idea. If it does well,bigger and better things could come. If you really want a killer XR for the street look at Mule Motorcycles or Sundance. Forget that Storz POS.If you want an actual race derived bike H-D ain't your ticket.
H-D clings to the venerable XR-750 because it's all they have as a vestige of competitive motorcycling. Imagine Honda blathering about the 1970-something Elsinore or CB750.

Harley makes some great bikes but in order to have a performance image to market, I <think> there has to be some actual racing success in recent memory. Could be wrong, I'm not a marketing guy. They seem to be able to sell anything. How about a little plastic bottle of water for a dollar?


Hey, the water is 5 bucks and the coffee is 10.... There was a year in the 70's or early 80's when Yamaha showed up at the track with a TZ750 based flat tracker and I think Kenny Roberts was the rider. This thing made the XR750 look like it was going backwards and guess what, the rules got changed and no more Yamaha..... Harley does well in the pro stock class at the drags but this is all about rules too. Hey, if you can't win a championship, buy the dang thing.

OK...here's the deal: A Sportster is a Hot Rod....the ricers, ducs, et al...are exotic cars. You can't compare liquid cooled in line 4's or the other exotic motors and bikes to a Sportster. It's like comparing a 69 Big Block Camaro to a Ferrari or Lambo. Way different deal....both really fun to drive though.

Personally I like the lumpy cam, hot rod ride and torque of my sportie (forget the handling issues for this conversation!). I also like the quick rev's of the inline 4's (remind me of an Offy or VW powered USAC Midget). I don't have much desire for the exotic stuff. I like good old fashioned hot rod type horsies. Bigger cams, carbs, valves, port jobs, etc. Look at the new Z06.....exotic materials but standard hot rod technology....cubes and good parts and tuning.
I sure as hell hope the MOCO builds this thing, makes it handle, puts some decent horsepower with it, and prices it attractively. It's sure not an XR750, but It's damn attractive to those of us that like Hot Rods.....and not necessarily Star Wars technology. Anti lock brakes on a motorcycle:rolleyes: WTF????? Next they'll have traction control and I suppose Active handling too:frownthre

Already have the finest hd but if i had the bucks for a 2nd bike it would be a bmw k1200rs, the new 163 rwhp inline four. At $14,800 it's a great price for what you get.

Sweet! I can vouch for the k1200rs, it is my "other" bike.

OK...here's the deal: A Sportster is a Hot Rod....the ricers, ducs, et al...are exotic cars. You can't compare liquid cooled in line 4's or the other exotic motors and bikes to a Sportster. It's like comparing a 69 Big Block Camaro to a Ferrari or Lambo. Way different deal....both really fun to drive though.

Personally I like the lumpy cam, hot rod ride and torque of my sportie (forget the handling issues for this conversation!). I also like the quick rev's of the inline 4's (remind me of an Offy or VW powered USAC Midget). I don't have much desire for the exotic stuff. I like good old fashioned hot rod type horsies. Bigger cams, carbs, valves, port jobs, etc. Look at the new Z06.....exotic materials but standard hot rod technology....cubes and good parts and tuning.
I sure as hell hope the MOCO builds this thing, makes it handle, puts some decent horsepower with it, and prices it attractively. It's sure not an XR750, but It's damn attractive to those of us that like Hot Rods.....and not necessarily Star Wars technology. Anti lock brakes on a motorcycle:rolleyes: WTF????? Next they'll have traction control and I suppose Active handling too:frownthre

You can drop the resin bucket from your list of hot rods as it jumped the fence a few years back and the new Shelby GT is on that side too. The days of the simple hot rod, which to some extent includes the Sporty are unfortunately gone. The XR1200 has the look but it also shares one common item, a port for you lap top..

You can drop the resin bucket from your list of hot rods as it jumped the fence a few years back and the new Shelby GT is on that side too. The days of the simple hot rod, which to some extent includes the Sporty are unfortunately gone. The XR1200 has the look but it also shares one common item, a port for you lap top..
Well.....I don't think the Vette has gone "all the way" over yet ;) It still has pushrods!:laugh .....and can be serviced (supposedly) at a Chevy dealer:rolleyes:

You're right but the key term here is their line-up. As long as you hold your comparisons to the Harley/Buell line up your ok. Think outside the box and you have some hurdles to jump much like Buell found out with their not so competitive $30,000 dollar RR that gets stomped by the stock Japenese toys. The XR1200 will sell and they'll sell a tone of aftermarket accessories for it but it will in all fairness remain competative to the Harley/Buell line....... Now, if this is all that floats your boat you'll be fine and this is very cool but don't make it out to be something it's not......

Took you off Ignore for a X-mass cease fire my friend. ;) I'm sure you knew I couldn't keep you there indefinitely. :laugh

From this post I actually don't think we're THAT far apart.

There are plenty of people who dig the niche bikes, ala Moto Guzzi too.

And on numbers the XR should be able to play on that field. Sure there are lots of bikes that would blow it out of the water, I never said there weren't.

I think it remains competitive to the niche markets, part of that is the Harley/Buell like, part are the Triumph classics, part is Moto Guzzi... etc.

Kev

I sure as hell hope the MOCO builds this thing, makes it handle, puts some decent horsepower with it, and prices it attractively. It's sure not an XR750, but It's damn attractive to those of us that like Hot Rods.....and not necessarily Star Wars technology. Anti lock brakes on a motorcycle:rolleyes: WTF????? Next they'll have traction control and I suppose Active handling too:frownthre


BMW has Traction Control available on much of their line as of this year...:shhhh

BMW has Traction Control available on much of their line as of this year...:shhhh


Oh, you said a bad word........ Hey, does the XR1200 come with air bags, I want air bags and traction control and ABS and auto training wheels for parking too. Sorry Kev, that's the attitude some folks have when they shop for a bike after reading some BS article in the latest Bike Magazine for the AARP crowd.....

Oh, you said a bad word........ Hey, does the XR1200 come with air bags, I want air bags and traction control and ABS and auto training wheels for parking too. Sorry Kev, that's the attitude some folks have when they shop for a bike after reading some BS article in the latest Bike Magazine for the AARP crowd.....

I didn't say I WANTED traction control, but I will admit that I liked the ABS on my R1100RS.

However when BMW went to their servo assisted traction control system I wasn't happy with it and would have opted for one without it.

That's the good thing about BMW, at least for now, that stuff is still an OPTION.

Don't want ABS or traction control, you don't have to have it.

K

I didn't say I WANTED traction control, but I will admit that I liked the ABS on my R1100RS.

However when BMW went to their servo assisted traction control system I wasn't happy with it and would have opted for one without it.

That's the good thing about BMW, at least for now, that stuff is still an OPTION.

Don't want ABS or traction control, you don't have to have it.

K

Kev, didn't BMW offer a switch that could turn that stuff off? Seems I saw one on a ride last season where the guy could switch the ABS and dual braking system back to normal ops....

Sorry Kev, that's the attitude some folks have when they shop for a bike after reading some BS article in the latest Bike Magazine for the AARP crowd.....

HEY....HEY..I'm a member of the AARP crowd:laugh....and I don't need no steeeenkin technology.......horsepower and handling are plenty for me:clap
Now If I could just get the handling part down:o :o :D

Merry Christmas Guys
Bruce

Who needs horsepower? Torque is where it's at for this AARP type. XR1200 delivers. Matt

HEY....HEY..I'm a member of the AARP crowd:laugh....and I don't need no steeeenkin technology.......horsepower and handling are plenty for me:clap
Now If I could just get the handling part down:o :o :D

Merry Christmas Guys
Bruce

Listen Grandpa, horsepower still exists with the use of a buggy where I live and thar ain't no steeeenkin technology but handle they do at 5mph:laugh

When you fly with the AARP you'll do fine except when it comes to motorcycle insurance because they don't offer it. Why? Because you're supposed to be old enough to understand bikes are for kids and trikes are for the Geritol generation.:shhhh

Having said this, you go grandpa and may the streets be kind to you because that cager won't be... Marry Christmas and may you get all the stuff you need for that handling package from Santa.....:D

Kev, didn't BMW offer a switch that could turn that stuff off? Seems I saw one on a ride last season where the guy could switch the ABS and dual braking system back to normal ops....

I THINK the off switch was only on the R1100/R1150GS, i.e. on dual sport models. Maybe therefore on the F650 dual-sport too. But on the other models it was on all the time.

Well, on some early systems if the brake control module didn't see enough voltage at cranking it would go into trouble-mode and flash the dash light, which probably left you without ABS. The early-oilheads had a button that would stop the light from flashing, but only for about 10 minutes, then the damn light would come back on ... VERY annoying to be pressing a button every 10 minutes to shut off the light that is reminding you that you probably don't have ABS :rolleyes:

I THINK the off switch was only on the R1100/R1150GS, i.e. on dual sport models. Maybe therefore on the F650 dual-sport too. But on the other models it was on all the time.

Well, on some early systems if the brake control module didn't see enough voltage at cranking it would go into trouble-mode and flash the dash light, which probably left you without ABS. The early-oilheads had a button that would stop the light from flashing, but only for about 10 minutes, then the damn light would come back on ... VERY annoying to be pressing a button every 10 minutes to shut off the light that is reminding you that you probably don't have ABS :rolleyes:

Yeah, I could see where that would drive you nuts... Was there any difference in feedback when applying the brakes in that malfunction mode? I don't know that I am ready for stuff like auto clutch and ABS. I read a ride report on the FJ where they had some issues with the auto clutch and the rider really didn't care for it. They pretty much said it wasn't worth the extra money but they liked the ABS...

I have to give it to the MoCo in that they have at least kept things simple so to speak...

I didn't say I WANTED traction control, but I will admit that I liked the ABS on my R1100RS.

However when BMW went to their servo assisted traction control system I wasn't happy with it and would have opted for one without it.

That's the good thing about BMW, at least for now, that stuff is still an OPTION.

Don't want ABS or traction control, you don't have to have it.

K

Amen to options, Kev. But the traction control, I believe, prevents overpowering the rear wheel on slippery surfaces. This is a separate technology from the servo (power) brake system that BMW now, thankfully, are discontinuing. The latest ABS system is much better than the servo generation. Traction control makes sense with big horsepower on slick pavement. Anybody who thinks they can outbrake ABS on slick surfaces simply hasn't been there.

I read a ride report on the FJ where they had some issues with the auto clutch and the rider really didn't care for it. . . . I have to give it to the MoCo in that they have at least kept things simple so to speak...

Amen to that. A dealer in Santa Barbara has an '06 FJR1300AE on the lot with 700 miles on it for just under $13k. The previous rider/owner said he just couldnt' get used to the electronic shift mechanism in low speed maneuvering. On the open road, it was great, but low speed, stop and go riding sucked without a clutch to work with. Lots of technology there . . . maybe too much.

Amen to that. A dealer in Santa Barbara has an '06 FJR1300AE on the lot with 700 miles on it for just under $13k. The previous rider/owner said he just couldnt' get used to the electronic shift mechanism in low speed maneuvering. On the open road, it was great, but low speed, stop and go riding sucked without a clutch to work with. Lots of technology there . . . maybe too much.

Yes, I have heard that in a u-turn situation, for example, the electric clutch at a programmed low rpm level will disengage at exactly the wrong moment. As with BMW's servo brakes, technology no one requested.

Yeah, I could see where that would drive you nuts... Was there any difference in feedback when applying the brakes in that malfunction mode? I don't know that I am ready for stuff like auto clutch and ABS. I read a ride report on the FJ where they had some issues with the auto clutch and the rider really didn't care for it. They pretty much said it wasn't worth the extra money but they liked the ABS...

I have to give it to the MoCo in that they have at least kept things simple so to speak...

The early generation ABS system was not servo-boosted, so it functioned (much like most automotive brake systems) as a pure mechanical, linear system UNLESS it went into ABS mode. Meaning feedack was predictable regardless of whether the system was in malfunction mode or not.

However, if the system was working and it activated, then things go weird (I mean you understood it from a logic standpoint, but like when autos started to all go ABS, it's something you're not used too). The modulator made a chirping sound, you felt the slightest pulsing in the lever and the bike seemed to decelerate less dramatically for a split-second.

Amen to options, Kev. But the traction control, I believe, prevents overpowering the rear wheel on slippery surfaces. This is a separate technology from the servo (power) brake system that BMW now, thankfully, are discontinuing. The latest ABS system is much better than the servo generation. Traction control makes sense with big horsepower on slick pavement. Anybody who thinks they can outbrake ABS on slick surfaces simply hasn't been there.

I don't think that I have the ability to outbrake an ABS system. But I DO prefer NOT to own both bikes WITH and WITHOUT ABS at the same time. And since I own mostly bikes without, I'd prefer to keep it that way. Why? Simple, just like cars, you actuate the brakes differently depending on whether or not the vehicle is equipped with ABS, and I'd hate to really haul on a brake lever only a split second later to realize I'm not on the ABS equipped bike that day.

Now traction control is another issue.

Honestly, in cars I TEND to shut it off. I mean, sure I leave it on in snow, but in a little light rain or gravel or other intermittent conditions I find that the fuel and spark retard control systems TEND to overcompensate, sometimes even to a point of danger (think shooting a gap where a tiny bit of wheelspin wouldn't have been a big deal in a cage, but suddenly the vehicle is full on in traction control and the turbo didn't spool up and she's crawling into traffic when she should have been shooting a gap).

Now granted, wheel spin is a lot more dangerous on a bike.

But BMW isn't just offering it on 130 hp hot rodded K-bikes, they're offering it on the F800 too. That's not a super high power bike.

And more often than not, I'd prefer to use my clutch and throttle to control the possibility of wheelspin in mixed conditions. I take it real easy in the rain and try to avoid ice and snow, ya know.

But CHOICES are good.

I'll take CHOICES anyday.

Kev

Haven't changed my mind. Still like it. Still hate the pipes. Wouldn't take it out of the garage till I took some VHT to 'em. What were they thinking? Not crazy about the tank, but not a deal breaker.Pretty much like the way the rest of it looks.Wonder if the brakes/suspension fulfill the promise they make. If the performance is closer to the Buell end of the spectrum, than the XL end,I'll be sold. Have to check out some road tests before I pass final judgement. Probably sell for about 12000.00.:burnout

I just bought the January issue of American Iron and they have a little write up in there about them with a picture of a black XR. I think it looks even better black.

Republic H-D here in Houston has an 07 883R flat tracker in the showroom. I'ts freakin'AWESOME. Trying to convince my youngest son to buy one :)/

Now traction control is another issue.

Honestly, in cars I TEND to shut it off. I mean, sure I leave it on in snow, but in a little light rain or gravel or other intermittent conditions I find that the fuel and spark retard control systems TEND to overcompensate, sometimes even to a point of danger (think shooting a gap where a tiny bit of wheelspin wouldn't have been a big deal in a cage, but suddenly the vehicle is full on in traction control and the turbo didn't spool up and she's crawling into traffic when she should have been shooting a gap).

Now granted, wheel spin is a lot more dangerous on a bike.



But CHOICES are good.

I'll take CHOICES anyday.

Kev

Kev....I agree with lots of what you say.....although I have learned in my Vette I can still feather and spin with TC on:p Light touch and all but if you can do it....it is nice. I agree completely about the difference in 2 bikes though. Hell I have trouble driving 3 different clutch equipped cars becuase of the difference:doh
As for wheelspin on a bike.....I like it:laugh :banadanc I personally enjoy letting the ass end loose in 2nd gear up to ....whatever mph in the rain or pea gravel. Not safe I know.....but I've been doing it since the early 60's so it doesn't phase me. Maybe I'll lose it some day.....maybe I won't but no T/C for me on a bike:frownthre Control the spin with your right hand!