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SHEEPDAWG
4th March 2009, 16:28
Ive read the starter pinion gear thread and Am Having a similar problem..But slightly different, want your guys opinion*..Brand new solenoid and Bendix gear..tested the starter with primary cover in place. it engages the bendix to gear just fine and turns the motor over but only a few seconds and then makes a clattery free spin sound..I can release the starter button and redo the process..If you were counting engine sounds it goes> ( in lopes) 1-2- Free spin or 1-2-3- free spin..does this sound like a loss of current problem or a starter problem?? anyone else ever have this?

ryder rick
4th March 2009, 20:11
Low battery or bad cables or starter drawing too much current. These starter systems must have a fully charged battery. Do a voltage drop test across the battery cables, check for heat at any connections. What does the battery voltage drop to when cranking?
Get a battery tender to keep your battery fully charged, it will pay for itself by doubling the life of the battery.

SHEEPDAWG
4th March 2009, 21:35
thanx ryder rick..the battery is brand new and fully charged ..I will let ya know the current drops tonight..I replaced the starter relay just for the hell of it (12$)just to take a piece out of the puzzle..nothing changed..if cables are good and battery is good.. what starter components would be bad? Bendix is new along with the Solenoid..Ill check the draw ASAP

russzx6
4th March 2009, 23:49
New sometimes doesn't mean it isn't faulty, or a crap imported product!!

SHEEPDAWG
5th March 2009, 00:01
New sometimes doesn't mean it isn't faulty, or a crap imported product!!

First thing I thought of Russ* It sure seems to lock tight the one way to me..anyways...its jumping down from 12.58 to about 7.48 on my meter at the battery when I hit the starter button..I need an extra hand before I can give ya the cable and starter readings..

FourCams
5th March 2009, 00:20
First thing I thought of Russ* It sure seems to lock tight the one way to me..anyways...its jumping down from 12.58 to about 7.48 on my meter at the battery when I hit the starter button..I need an extra hand before I can give ya the cable and starter readings..

Charge up the battery then take the battery to an auto parts store and have them load test it.
It shouldn't have dropped below 9 volts or so.
If it checks out, you have excessive resistance somewhere in the starting circuit. Maybe a shorted starter winding or a solenoid winding or just a bad connection. If there's a problem in the starting circuit and your voltage is dropping that much you're going to feel heat wherever the problem is. Feel the starter, solenoid/relay, and connections. If they're hot there's excessive resistance.
I would have the battery load tested out of the bike first.

SHEEPDAWG
5th March 2009, 00:26
Thankyou...soif it tests good you're sayn a short inside* the starter the copper windings?...can it be fixed or is that easier to get a new starter?

FourCams
5th March 2009, 00:28
Thankyou...soif it tests good you're sayn a short inside* the starter the copper windings?...can it be fixed or is that easier to get a new starter?

If it ends up being a starter winding it would be best to replace the starter.

russzx6
5th March 2009, 00:30
I remember a while back Hopper had bought a new battery . . .then had problems . . .replaced a few hundred $$ of other parts and it came back to the "new" battery which had a couple of faulty cells. A load test will be the true test, a basic way i test an acid cell battery is when you are charging it . .see if all the cells are bubbling . . .one not bubbling is a sure sign that section is faulty

SHEEPDAWG
5th March 2009, 00:47
ok guys I appreciate the help as always*..Ill let ya know..

SHEEPDAWG
6th March 2009, 00:28
Ok had the Battery load tested..its ok...Rewired the bike according to the Clymer manual I have for it..It still turns then disengages..the draw on the battery was even worse*..so looks like the starter maybe faulty..I can have one rebuilt here for about 1/2 the cost of a new one..any hidden factors in this? rebuild ok?..or go for the new one?..anything else to test before pulling the starter motor?,...also quick note..are the turn signal buttons held in to work on these old models or should it be once for on and once for off like the newer bikes?

thx!

boilermaker
6th March 2009, 00:37
.also quick note..are the turn signal buttons held in to work on these old models or should it be once for on and once for off like the newer bikes?

thx!

Your turn sigs have to be pressed on all the time to work no timed flash on these older ones

IronMick
6th March 2009, 01:33
...so looks like the starter maybe faulty..I can have one rebuilt here for about 1/2 the cost of a new one..any hidden factors in this? rebuild ok?..or go for the new one?...

Dismantle, clean, and inspect the starter motor yourself. Easy job. It will be filthy inside. Clean it up with spray can electrical contracts cleaner or brake cleaner. Inspect the brushes. Whatever. Lots of pics etc in the Clymer. This mat be all that it needs.

rockdancer
6th March 2009, 01:49
If the battery is not the sealed kind one of the best tests is a specific gravity test. One of those little droppers with 5 different colered balls in it. I dont know how easy it is to find one in a parts store anymore with so many sealed batteries out there. The things are very accurate in locating a weak cell.

FourCams
6th March 2009, 03:04
Have you run a heavy jumper from the battery to the solenoid yet? (just to eliminate other wiring as a possibility.)

Mick is probably right. You can clean up the starter and put it back together pretty easy.
You could just clean it up and see if it works.
You could have it rebuilt.
Or you could rebuild it yourself.
You said that you can have it rebuilt. That must mean you have an auto electric shop. Those are gettin hard to find around here. If I had a rebuild shop nearby I'd have them turn the armature and test the windings with a growler for me. Then I'd replace the brushes and bearings myself.
I'm kinda cheap - but I don't like doin things twice if I don't have to.

SHEEPDAWG
6th March 2009, 17:04
ok sorry guys..Im really getn confused here..( i know I know not hard for me*)I cleaned the starter as Mick Suggested and it was dirty nothing looks bad, not that I can see everything but its a 2002 starter and looks good..Hooked everything back up and tried again..it was almost worse this time it doesnt really kick the motor over just kinda locks up at the bendix uniteing with the large gear. the battery went from 12v down to 6.58 or so..when hitting the starter button..nothing gets hot what so ever* no connections or components. The rattleing noise I thought was the bendix coming off the gear is really the starter motor gear coming off the little drive gear OR the shaft pulling OUT of the Drive gear Im trying this with the primary cover on and holding it on with one hand*
when the battery got below 12 vots there was mainly just clicking..Do ya still think this is a starter issue?..or a couple issues*?..and should the shaft pull that far out of the drive gear?...getn frustrated , should the shaft be moving at all or just the bendix?...battery is new along with Solenoid, starter relay and Bendix and needle bearings
UPDATE* just tried it with plugs out, turned over like a champ..I'll check the compression..just in case

Onedwn5up
6th March 2009, 20:04
Don't know. My starter is my right leg. Hoping I don't have to rebuild that anytime soon.

FourCams
6th March 2009, 20:33
You said
"the battery went from 12v down to 6.58 or so..when hitting the starter button."

That's just not right...
If you charged the battery there should have been around 12.6 volts when you started and it shouldn't have dropped below 9v or so.

What's the amperage rating on that battery Sheepdawg?
Did they give you a battery for an XLCH instead of one for an XLH?

SHEEPDAWG
6th March 2009, 22:46
Thank you fourcams..I did have a bad battery cable..the connection had only a 50% chance of working... the only problem I have now is the Bendix hiting the flywheel and not engageing 100% of the time..little tweaking and it should come together...Funny how you check things over and over and still miss something..unless it went bad during the process?...10.8 was the least it dropped to after the fix..but thanks guys great help!.. new problem now* broken case bolt holes...sigh*

FourCams
6th March 2009, 22:57
Thank you fourcams..I did have a bad battery cable..the connection had only a 50% chance of working... the only problem I have now is the Bendix hiting the flywheel and not engageing 100% of the time..little tweaking and it should come together...Funny how you check things over and over and still miss something..unless it went bad during the process?...10.8 was the least it dropped to after the fix..but thanks guys great help!.. new problem now* broken case bolt holes...sigh*

I'm glad you found it! :clap
It sounds like you're just about back in business :)
I'm surprised that you didn't feel any heat where the bad connection was.
Hopefully the case bolt holes wont be too big of a problem.