Now, The Violence in Mexico is Our Fault !!

[milmat1]

From http://www.nationalinterest.org/Article.aspx?id=21066

Ted Carpenter's response is to this Statement made by President Felipe Calderón

"And the gangs are well-armed, which leads to the second manifestation of delusional thinking on the part of Mexican authorities. President Felipe Calderón and other leaders insist that “lax gun laws” in the United States are largely responsible for the violence the drug cartels are inflicting. Medina-Mora typified that view, saying: “I think American [gun] laws are absurd” because “they make it very easy for citizens to acquire guns.”


The whole page is a good read on Crime and Gun control etc. But this really pissed me off...

[gemeinschaft]

From http://www.nationalinterest.org/Article.aspx?id=21066

Ted Carpenter's response is to this Statement made by President Felipe Calderón

"And the gangs are well-armed, which leads to the second manifestation of delusional thinking on the part of Mexican authorities. President Felipe Calderón and other leaders insist that “lax gun laws” in the United States are largely responsible for the violence the drug cartels are inflicting. Medina-Mora typified that view, saying: “I think American [gun] laws are absurd” because “they make it very easy for citizens to acquire guns.”


The whole page is a good read on Crime and Gun control etc. But this really pissed me off...

LOL.... I guess we are also responsible for the devaluation of their Peso and the internal collapse of their country....

As long as they insist on blaming others, they will never solve their problems.

[cian]

we are to blame because we are the evil american empire that won't bail them out.:banadanc

[milmat1]

we are to blame because we are the evil american empire that won't bail them out.:banadanc

Yea, Exactly !!

But whats worse is if the Mexican government doesn't get this under control we are likely to be dealing with a massive flood of refuges from Mexico.
It would be in our interest considering our present Financial meltdown to go ahead and kill the bastards for them.
I mean afterall isn't flooding our country with drugs a Chemical Attack ? Hell Call them terrorist and blow the whole damb place up !! It worked once ..:D

[cian]

Yea, Exactly !!

But whats worse is if the Mexican government doesn't get this under control we are likely to be dealing with a massive flood of refuges from Mexico.
It would be in our interest considering our present Financial meltdown to go ahead and kill the bastards for them.
I mean afterall isn't flooding our country with drugs a Chemical Attack ? Hell Call them terrorist and blow the whole damb place up !! It worked once ..:D

wow I didn't think there was some one else that thought like me :gun:chtwo

[66xlch]

It's not possible that the war on drugs IS responsible? How many people do we have to kill and imprison, how many governments do we have to encourage to corrupt themselves with narco-dollars, and how many billions of tax dollars are we to waste, trying to stop people from CERTAIN drugs, while not caring about others? Half of Americans admit to using illegal drugs! ADMIT, not even proved!

BTW, I niether drink nor do ANY drugs. I quit at 16 years old, but I fail to see what madness drives us to repeat the mistakes of prohibition. The drug war precisely parallels prohibition, except we are now officially too stupid to pull the plug after 10 times the suffering.

[66xlch]

ABTW, I think invading Mexico is not a bad idea. I'm pretty sure the state of Texas could take them by themselves! oil, vacation resorts, cheap labor, and bitchin blankets and tire sandals sounds good to me!

[wandrur]

It's not possible that the war on drugs IS responsible? How many people do we have to kill and imprison, how many governments do we have to encourage to corrupt themselves with narco-dollars, and how many billions of tax dollars are we to waste, trying to stop people from CERTAIN drugs, while not caring about others? Half of Americans admit to using illegal drugs! ADMIT, not even proved!

BTW, I niether drink nor do ANY drugs. I quit at 16 years old, but I fail to see what madness drives us to repeat the mistakes of prohibition. The drug war precisely parallels prohibition, except we are now officially too stupid to pull the plug after 10 times the suffering.

Just wanted to say I agree with much of this. I've never used illegal drugs in my life, but I have a brain and realize that the 'drug war' has likely caused as many problems as it has solved. In that way, I think the cartel violence in Mexico could very well be blamed on the American drug war. Could be, not is. But it's something to consider.

[flameryder]

The American people ARE the problem. If the American people would stop using the illegal drugs, the problem would cease to exist. No demand, no supply, NO PROBLEM. (guns or no guns)


_________________________________
Born once, die twice. Born twice, die once.
John 3:3-5
Rev. 20:11-5
21:4-8

[66xlch]

Sorry, but the American people don't want to stop using the drugs, just as they did'nt want to stop drinking during prohibition. That being so, maybe we should just let them, as we finally did with the booze. Maybe if we stopped hunting them, and left them alone the prices would drop, and the violence that we have caused here and abroad would end finally. Maybe our prisons would be dramatically less full, and people would be more able to see the true effect of drugs and make better informed decisions about them, and perhaps less people would choose to ruin their lives if they were able to go to "needle park" and see the end results openly. I find it telling that violent crime is decraesing and the prison population is increasing.

[chacon101]

If the US legalized drugs, murdering drug dealers in other countries would all have projectile shits because it would cut into the profits. I don't know about you, but I don't want a river of shit pouring out of Mexico.

[Link Hogthrob]

Legalizing drugs is not comperable to legalizing booze. Alcohol is alcohol. It comes in one chemical variety whether it's beer, booze or wine.
Drugs, on the other hand, come in a wide variety of chemical compounds and have vastly differing effects on the human body. So in terms of legalizing "drugs" does that come with a qualifier? Do you legalize just the top 3 or 4 most popular or go across the board?
I don't disagree that the Reagan era "war on drugs" has been nothing but a complete waste of time and money but, on the flip side, I don't believe legalization is an answer either. The users of drugs are the source of the problem, not the providers. I think one would have to explore more into the areas of why people use drugs to find a better solution.

[66xlch]

People use drugs for exactly the same reason they use alcohol. ALL drugs used to be legal, we chose to outlaw them for various (usually nonsensical) reasons. Most of our drug laws came about as result of our desire to harass a particular segment of society. Pot was outlawed as a way to stop cheap labor from the Mexicans, Heroin was outlawed to harass the Chinese, and cocaine was outlawed to harass the blacks. LSD was one of the few drugs outlawed not for a specific race, but to harass the hippies.

Bottom line, people want to get high. Some want to drink, some want to smoke, and some want to snort or shoot, but most of them are getting high. Abstainers (like me) are rare. The war on drugs is PRECISELY like prohibition. The results are EXACTLY the same, except we are now officially too stupid to stop killing ourselves in the name of temperance!

Legalization, or rather the cessation of our ineffective attempts to stop drug use, is the only answer. The efforts we have made have resulted in horrific results. We have ruined tens of thousands of lives, trying to prevent people from ruining their own lives! The single moral and rational thing to do is stop! It is the most shameful thing our nation has EVER done to continue, and it saddens me that we will never stop being the aggresive bully who riuns lives, ends lives and imprisons people because we don't approve of HOW they get high (if only they would drink their drugs like us!)!

[jharback]

Legalizing drugs is not comperable to legalizing booze. Alcohol is alcohol. It comes in one chemical variety whether it's beer, booze or wine.
Drugs, on the other hand, come in a wide variety of chemical compounds and have vastly differing effects on the human body. So in terms of legalizing "drugs" does that come with a qualifier? Do you legalize just the top 3 or 4 most popular or go across the board?
I don't disagree that the Reagan era "war on drugs" has been nothing but a complete waste of time and money but, on the flip side, I don't believe legalization is an answer either. The users of drugs are the source of the problem, not the providers. I think one would have to explore more into the areas of why people use drugs to find a better solution.

Well, I really hate to point this out but, you are wrong.

Alcohol is a drug.

[66xlch]

The irony is we are addicted to the war on drugs! Despite the obvious terrible reults we have subjected ourselves to, we continue to chase that feeling of "helping" these drug addicts. It is pure insanity, but we persist. Just as it's crazy for an alcoholic to continue drinking, or an addict to continue using, it is equally insane for us to keep trying to eradicate drug use.

[ed_in_az]

The irony is we are addicted to the war on drugs! Despite the obvious terrible reults we have subjected ourselves to, we continue to chase that feeling of "helping" these drug addicts. It is pure insanity, but we persist. Just as it's crazy for an alcoholic to continue drinking, or an addict to continue using, it is equally insane for us to keep trying to eradicate drug use.

Whether you were high as you typed the above, and your other posts in this thread I don't know. But I certainly hope so, or I hope your sarcasm meter was pegged.

I'll take a shot of that sarcasm myself, thanks.

It's just great that the government wised up and made alcohol legal again and solved so many problems. No more "criminal" involvement, at least until the drunk gets behind the wheel, beats his wife, beats his kid, kills himself or someone else, or loses his liver lingering awhile before dying, or just plain goes on the public dole 'cause he can't work.

It makes so much sense to make all the other recreational drugs legal. We know how delightful meth addicts are. If more people did LSD we wouldn't need to launch Shuttles to see outer space. More pot smokers would mean such a mellow world, who would need to work? Oh, and opium and heroin could provide and endless support of hooked customers for happy capitalist businessmen. I know I missed some other wonderful drugs, but you can make up you own benefits for them.

Yeah ... legalize everything. Smart move.

[66xlch]

Well, I'm just saying let's count the ways your approach has helped. Let's check and see if outlawing drugs has helped prevent crime, violence and ruined lives.

I submit that the war on drugs has resulted in increased crime, increased violence, and DRAMATICALLY increased ruination of lives. I do NOT advocate taking or using of drugs. I think that legalizing drugs would result in no more or even less drug use. I KNOW that we would be better off legalizing drugs, and I know that we will never (at least in the forseeable future) ever do what is right, moral and sensible.

BTW there is NO sarcasm involved, just common sense, and reason. I think drugs are really stupid to do, and even stupider to outlaw. Half of Americans ADMIT to using illegal drugs (including the most recent 3 presidents). We are never going to eradicate drug use. We have worsened the problem dramatically, not helped even a little.

[66xlch]

BTW, if you read my previous posts, you'll see I don't drink, or do ANY form of recreational drugs. Perhaps that's why I can clearly see what's REALLY happening!

[ed_in_az]

BTW, if you read my previous posts, you'll see I don't drink, or do ANY form of recreational drugs. Perhaps that's why I can clearly see what's REALLY happening!

You obviously ignored the REAL consequences of drug use that I listed, happening RIGHT NOW, EVERY DAY, IN THE USA.

While the "crime" of acquiring drugs can be eliminated legally, NOTHING can eliminate the damage they do.

[jharback]

Whether you were high as you typed the above, and your other posts in this thread I don't know. But I certainly hope so, or I hope your sarcasm meter was pegged.

I'll take a shot of that sarcasm myself, thanks.

It's just great that the government wised up and made alcohol legal again and solved so many problems. No more "criminal" involvement, at least until the drunk gets behind the wheel, beats his wife, beats his kid, kills himself or someone else, or loses his liver lingering awhile before dying, or just plain goes on the public dole 'cause he can't work.

It makes so much sense to make all the other recreational drugs legal. We know how delightful meth addicts are. If more people did LSD we wouldn't need to launch Shuttles to see outer space. More pot smokers would mean such a mellow world, who would need to work? Oh, and opium and heroin could provide and endless support of hooked customers for happy capitalist businessmen. I know I missed some other wonderful drugs, but you can make up you own benefits for them.

Yeah ... legalize everything. Smart move.

Yeah, its much better for the government to decide what is good for us and what is bad for us. I just wished the government made all my personal decisions for me. It would make life so much better for all of us.

They could decide that none of us could have guns. They could decide that only those with an IQ above 120 would attend University. They could decide that at the age of 60 you become too much of a burden on society and decide to euthanize all of us when we hit 60. Yeah, the world would be a much better place.

[ed_in_az]

Yeah, its much better for the government to decide what is good for us and what is bad for us. I just wished the government made all my personal decisions for me. It would make life so much better for all of us.

Used properly a gun can save my life or provide my lunch.

Used properly alcohol, marijuana, LSD, meth, heroin, Etc. provides what benefit other than dulling the senses(like THAT is a benefit)?

[chacon101]

Cars kill people too....ban those? What about motorcycles? They don't do anyone "good", right? If somebody drinks and goes and beats up somebody, you're saying it was all just the alcohol? I have to disagree on that one.

The media always exploits the lowest common denominator. How many people do you know that smoke weed here and there but are still good parents and contributing members of society? I know TONS. I lived in DC for almost ten years and just about every person I knew smoked weed sometimes. ALL drank. And these are lawyers, doctors of all types and people into all levels of politics and business.

The war on drugs is lost and I saw something on tv the other week about how much we spend on this "war" and a guy was interviewed who was part of this task force. He clearly stated that every single year, it gets harder and harder for them to fight. You burn one stash and ten more pop up. So what's the plan? Throw more money into?

Minimum sentences for a tiny amount of pot (such as a joint or something) is more of a crime IMO. I am not saying legalize outright because I would want/need to know how that would be handled but the "war on drugs" is a catastrophe.

[Wooley]

with illegal drug use and dealing comes crime to people who don't even do the stuff. Many innocent people become victims of the drug trade because of the need for the money to get the drugs. The drug users will still be there whether the stuff is legal or not so why not take the criminal part of it away. Drug dealers have at times been in gun battles and bystanders and persons with no connection get shot and killed. Take away the illegal status then a lot of the crime for drugs will go down. Proabition was full of death and robbery etc as well but for the most part the criminal element of it was gone when it was repealed.

[ed_in_az]

Cars kill people too....ban those? What about motorcycles? They don't do anyone "good", right? If somebody drinks and goes and beats up somebody, you're saying it was all just the alcohol? I have to disagree on that one.

Hilarious!

Comparing the use of mind altering substances intended to distort reality with a vehicle. How about comparing LSD to a horse?:laugh

He was tripping and the horse threw him off, or maybe he fell, or thought he could fly.

[ed_in_az]

with illegal drug use and dealing comes crime to people who don't even do the stuff. Many innocent people become victims of the drug trade because of the need for the money to get the drugs.

Too funny.:clap

Innocent people are victimized because drug addicts need money to buy illegal drugs.

WOW!

So if the drugs were legal the addicts would get them how????????:doh

How about a Stimulus check from Obama?

:laugh:laugh:laugh:laugh




See guys, THIS kind of stuff is why people shouldn't do drugs.

[toe]

If they legalize the drugs, they can TAX it.................

[bud095]

If they legalize the drugs, they can TAX it.................i was gonna say that but you said it for me.

[ed_in_az]

If they legalize the drugs, they can TAX it.................

Why didn't I think of that?:doh

Then use the money to provide free housing, drugs, medical, prisons, and maybe even cars for the addicts who can't work. I'd draw the line on buying them guns though. Then they might decide the can AFFORD higher priced drugs.

[bud095]

im talking about legalizing and taxing marijuana not crack! as far as addicts living off the system its happening already any way.

[bud095]

Too funny.:clap

Innocent people are victimized because drug addicts need money to buy illegal drugs.

WOW!

So if the drugs were legal the addicts would get them how????????:doh

How about a Stimulus check from Obama?

:laugh:laugh:laugh:laugh




See guys, THIS kind of stuff is why people shouldn't do drugs.no one robs a liquor store just to get a bag of weed

[66xlch]

You are missing the point. Noone cares that it's illegal. Drugs are easier to get, and more commonly used than they were before they were outlawed. The segment of society who choose drugs, would (and have)either legal or not. I am not saying to make it OK to drink and drive, or drug and drive. I'm not saying to legalize beating your old lady. These things already are illegal. I'm saying, precisely like prohibition, people don't care if it's illegal, they are going to use them anyway. Outlawing them, because they are dangerous, is infantile at best. Rat poison is fatal if swallowed, yet perfectly legal. We are free to choose not to ingest it. I would STILL not use drugs if they were legal, as would most of the people I know. The people who use still will if legalized.

We spend billions, kill people regularly, imprison people regularly, and present an image of immorality, and lose respect for the law by engaging in the war on drugs. There is NO upside whatsoever. It has accomplished the EXACT opposite of what the do-gooders claimed was their objective.

[66xlch]

I'm not saying drugs are good. I have seen first hand the damage dope does. Although I think pot is mostly harmless (unless you're a box of breakfast cereal). I think booze is more harmful then almost all drugs. If classified honestly, it would be about the same as heroin, except for the addictiveness (which is slightly less with booze). It really does'nt matter what the particulars are. We have NO moral basis for attacking the people who use drugs. And by attack I mean with machine guns and armies. HALF of America has used illegal drugs. The last 3 presidents have used illegal drugs. Anyone who wants to uses illegal drugs. We have changed only our own sense of morality, for the worse.

Nevermind the hypocrasy of having legal booze, yet illegal pot and other, more serious drugs. It is just wrong to outlaw substances. They are harmless unless abused. If used properly, drugs get you high. Just like alcohol. If used to excess, they cause major damage, just like alcohol. Same with red meat, and desserts. If used improperly, they can kill you.

Drugs are expensive because of your precious war on them. Pot grows anywhere. Poppies are more picky, but importing what we want is no big deal. During prohibition, booze was expensive. Whenever a substance must be smuggled, it becomes expensive. I'm no fan of taxation, and don't think it's wise to use as an incentive to the drug banners. We are already taxed to near extinction. Let's just examine the facts, and look into our souls, do the right thing and let people have access to the substances they want. ANTHING beats the status qou (over crowded prisons, multiple thousands of deaths, numerous negative consequences, etc.).

[Wooley]

Why didn't I think of that?:doh

Then use the money to provide free housing, drugs, medical, prisons, and maybe even cars for the addicts who can't work. I'd draw the line on buying them guns though. Then they might decide the can AFFORD higher priced drugs. Seems we already do that. But the Gov. could tax it like cigarettes and booze or LEGAL drugs. The Alan Handleman show had a segment on this talking with law enforcement and how the war on drugs is making things worse.