Dear Harley,
It seems quite some time has passed since your designers have put any thought into the ergonomics of a modern day motorcycle. My 2001 XL has the same hand/foot controls as my 1984 XL (and most every other model since and currently) had. And , to tell you the truth, they aren't really optimized for control and comfort.
My main pet peeve is with the clutch and brake levers. You can ride almost any modern Japanese, German, or Italian motorcycle, and the levers are close in shape and design and work quite well under most all conditions in use by an average sized human hand. So why is it that Harleys, of the last 20 years or so, have levers that are dog legged out past the shape of most human hands? And why so wide that you can't get your fingers around them?Have your designers looked at the shape and finger legnth of human hands lately? Your lever shape and the average hand don't mix.
Anybody who is seriously into riding motorcycles, be it street, track day, or racing, can probably tell you how important the feel and control of the levers (front brake being more important) is critical to bike control. If you can't properly modulate the front brake, an exorbitant amount of confidence in control is lost. Isn't that why most other bikes come with adjustable front brake levers and why they are properly shaped for more leverage with less applied force?
One of the things I checked for on the XR1200 Prototype after I saw that it finally had modern wheels and suspension, was whether or not The Company put up-to-date controls on it. Sadly, in the case of hand controls, not. We do get proper foot control placement finally, and for that I applaud. That's a big step in the Harley world and a sign that somebody actually knows what is required for proper control of a sporting motorcycle.
So how about it, can we get someone to look into the design of the levers? Maybe take another bike out back to back with a Harley and feel the diference? I'm sure your designers can even come up with their own little design spin on them so that they are still Harley unique, but properly functional. And one more thing, make them back dateable to 2001 so I don't have to try and fit Suzuki levers to my Sportster.
Thanks.

Try some of these...
http://www.black-eagle.co.uk/martialarts/HandGrip.jpg
Then you will be able to handle this...:tour
http://www.motonline.com/images/listino/moto/XL%20883%20Sportster.jpg

I think the MoCo does a pretty good job on that front. First, I think they do fit the average rider, perhaps you're not quite as average as you think. In addition they offer several different diameter grips and all kinds of seat-bar-peg combinations to suit different anatomies. On top of all that they even make a smaller Sporty for smaller bodies. IMHO the MoCo does a pretty good job of making products that work for most people, it's impossible to please everyone. :)

I have a '05 sportster and the levers fit and feel find compareded to metric bikes i've ridden. And the '06 and up clutch pull is even easyer.

Dear Harley,
It seems quite some time has passed since your designers have put any thought into the ergonomics of a modern day motorcycle. My 2001 XL has the same hand/foot controls as my 1984 XL (and most every other model since and currently) had. And , to tell you the truth, they aren't really optimized for control and comfort.
My main pet peeve is with the clutch and brake levers. You can ride almost any modern Japanese, German, or Italian motorcycle, and the levers are close in shape and design and work quite well under most all conditions in use by an average sized human hand. So why is it that Harleys, of the last 20 years or so, have levers that are dog legged out past the shape of most human hands? And why so wide that you can't get your fingers around them?Have your designers looked at the shape and finger legnth of human hands lately? Your lever shape and the average hand don't mix.
Anybody who is seriously into riding motorcycles, be it street, track day, or racing, can probably tell you how important the feel and control of the levers (front brake being more important) is critical to bike control. If you can't properly modulate the front brake, an exorbitant amount of confidence in control is lost. Isn't that why most other bikes come with adjustable front brake levers and why they are properly shaped for more leverage with less applied force?
One of the things I checked for on the XR1200 Prototype after I saw that it finally had modern wheels and suspension, was whether or not The Company put up-to-date controls on it. Sadly, in the case of hand controls, not. We do get proper foot control placement finally, and for that I applaud. That's a big step in the Harley world and a sign that somebody actually knows what is required for proper control of a sporting motorcycle.
So how about it, can we get someone to look into the design of the levers? Maybe take another bike out back to back with a Harley and feel the diference? I'm sure your designers can even come up with their own little design spin on them so that they are still Harley unique, but properly functional. And one more thing, make them back dateable to 2001 so I don't have to try and fit Suzuki levers to my Sportster.
Thanks.

The wide levers offer increased comfort in hard use. But, the new clutch mechanism is very light. Adjustable levers like 90% of the bikes today would be an asset to fit a variety of riders.

:roflblack :roflblack :roflblack :roflblack
That's too funny, rshute!

H-D was going to make such controls, but they did not want to infringe/copy the 650 Suzi.
Sounds like you bought the right bike. Decide which one is for you...and stop the whinning.

H-D was going to make such controls, but they did not want to infringe/copy the 650 Suzi.
Sounds like you bought the right bike. Decide which one is for you...and stop the whinning.

I thought this forum was about things we (as individuals) would like Harley to know that we liked or disliked or would like to see some improvement in. I'm sure most of these threads fall under the "whinning" category then. Especially the ones trying to belittle Harley's excellent suspension engineering abilities.

And for the record, the complaint wasn't about effort per say, just shape.

As for bikes, they are both for me, I just would have been more pleased if one had worked a little better from the start, but that's why we modify them and whine about it in the process.

...and stop the whinning.




Chrisg, the problem is you've dared to question the Harley Orthodoxy, challenge the fealty of the Milwaukee Faithful, and that's why you've gotten some of the responses you have, the knee-jerk retorts are an inherent part of the Harley Belief System...

Chrisg, the problem is you've dared to question the Harley Orthodoxy, challenge the fealty of the Milwaukee Faithful, and that's why you've gotten some of the responses you have, the knee-jerk retorts are an inherent part of the Harley Belief System...
Nah, I disagree with that. I can't speak for everyone who posted in this thread, but my response was based on the fact that the controls DO work fine for MOST people. It's a mass-produced item, it's gotta be engineered to satisfy a target user. Being a painfully average person myself I find that everything fits me well and I have no complaints. Hell, I've even done 700mi days on the stock seat with no particular discomfort, it's not brand loyalty, it's just anatomy :tour. Whether something works for an individual is about their particular anatomy. Another point I was making is that the MoCo does listen, that's why there's a 'Low' in the line-up and the clutch keeps getting easier to use, etc. Nobody will ever be 100% happy with the fit of a stock ride and shouldn't expect to be. That being said, I am from Milwaukee and will ride a HD until my last breath :)

Count me in on as someone who had problems with the clutch lever usage.When I first got the bike it was hard for me to believe that after all these years in making them that they couldn't at least design them so the lever wasn't so far out before it needed to start it's travel? I feel like I have average size hands but when on the grips it felt like my fingers weren't long enough and I struggled having to bring the clutch in just on the tips of my fingers made me feel real unsafe!
So fortune smiled on me and after 2 weeks I dropped her on a slow speed turn(:censor ) breaking off a section of the original lever.Went to my indie parts guy and they didn't have an original replacement but suggested the "Kyrukan trigger levers" which have a trigger like protrusion on them near were your index finger would lay,which gave me the leverage I needed to finally engage them safely!:clap
So yea this sucked having to find a solution for me to operate the bike in a safer fashion I had to find an after market piece from some third party?:frownthre

I don't find level placement to be a problem. Reach for my finger length is just fine also.

BUT, the length of the lever is about 1/2 inch too short. My little finger is riding on the knob on the lever end. Now that isn't a problem on the front brake as I usually only use my first two fingers anyway. But, the clutch lever has to almost contact the left grip and I can't leave fingers in the way or I won't get full disengagement of the clutch. I sometimes feel like I'm at a 'society tea' with my little finger sticking out while holding the clutch at stop lights/signs.

Of course, I would also like the longer levers to be available in black.

I guess it's correct that a motorcycle is just a down payment on accessories. :laugh:laugh:laugh

well at least a couple people don't think I was "whinning" too much.
That was my whole point. The shape. Why they angle out so much.
Even if I wasn't a strictly two finger braker, your fingers don't get longer after the middle one (must have something to do with that one getting the most use), so why the big dogleg? And really, on the clutch lever, since you pull it all the way in to the bar and don't need much control "feel", it dosen't bother me at all. But with the way the brake lever is set up, your first finger hits too close to the pivot point to do much good. It's like "choking up" on the lever. And while your middle finger hits in a better spot, is still at a leverage disadvantage because of the extreme outward angle.
Ok, maybe I'm getting too picky about stuff, but I like bikes and riding more than can be explained, so I tend to want it to be as enjoyable as possible.
And I'm not saying the whole line needs improvement, just any model more sport(ing) oriented, ie: xr1200, xl1200r....

What I've noticed is, accessories for Jap bikes are to make them work better, and accessories for Harleys are to make them LOOK better. There are better levers out there, with variable geometry and better feel, I just don't know if they make them for our bikes.

Chrisg, the problem is you've dared to question the Harley Orthodoxy, challenge the fealty of the Milwaukee Faithful, and that's why you've gotten some of the responses you have, the knee-jerk retorts are an inherent part of the Harley Belief System...

True on this, and any H-D, forum. You can talk about any mod you're making to improve something all you want and only get positive responses. However, even hint that Harley could have/should have done something better in the first place, and the Harley defenders will pounce. It's just the way it is.