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Don Burton
7th February 2007, 03:51
My 06 Roadster has the same helical cut gear transmission as the 07 models and it loudly crunches (I feel it more as well) when shifting into each gear, much more than the 05 and earlier models with the old transmission. I'm wondering if there are any riders with the midset controls who can tell me how their bike sounds and feels when upshifting? Do forward control models have this problem or does the external shift linkage absorb some of it? I'd appreciate it if quite a few of you 07 owners could help me out with your answers.

Dan

buckhorns
7th February 2007, 03:56
I neither feel or hear any " crunches " when shifting on my 06 1200c. All shifting is very smooth. Just a clunk sometimes when stopped and shift from neutral to 1st. ??????

Fourcats
7th February 2007, 04:06
Check the tension on the primary chain. I have found that the factory spec is a little tight sometimes and leads to notchy/clunky shifts. Back the adjustment off a bit and see if there is an improvement. :wonderlan

c pierce
7th February 2007, 04:13
what fourcats said. Iwould also check your clutch adjustment.

eddyskynyrdpat
7th February 2007, 04:31
Hey man , one of the friends I ride with has a springer softail but! His ol'lady got a 06 883 low. We ride beside each other a lot , but if he's on the sporty I hear it when he shifts . I've told him it don't sound right. My 04 don't make that racket.

bishop109
7th February 2007, 04:34
Yeah, I get a clunk into first, but other than that it's pretty smooth - '07 1200R

Gone
7th February 2007, 07:53
My '07 1200R shifts nearly as smooth and light as my jap bikes. If your clutch is not disengaging 100%, it will cause some gnashing of teeth.

Don Burton
7th February 2007, 12:17
Check the tension on the primary chain. I have found that the factory spec is a little tight sometimes and leads to notchy/clunky shifts. Back the adjustment off a bit and see if there is an improvement. :wonderlan

Thanks. On another thread I've noted that I've already checked the clutch adjustment, primary chain adjustment and the Formula + fluid level. I suppose that I should have made this a poll as I'm really trying to find out how many others have this problem that no adjustments can take care of. I'm also wondering if the forward control linkage mutes some of this on the Custom Bikes.

Don Burton
7th February 2007, 12:22
My '07 1200R shifts nearly as smooth and light as my jap bikes. If your clutch is not disengaging 100%, it will cause some gnashing of teeth.

The clutch adjustment inside the case is on the tight side and I have adjusted for no freeplay in the cable so I can't go any tighter without risking damage from slippage. I have no chatter so I don't think that the disks are warped. The lubricant level is correct when checked visually and I used 28 ounces. I have tried it with more which shouldn't help and it didn't. I'm the only one who rides it and it has never been beat on. I hoped that it might loosen up with age but it has 2,200 miles on it now.

Dan

Don Burton
7th February 2007, 12:24
Check the tension on the primary chain. I have found that the factory spec is a little tight sometimes and leads to notchy/clunky shifts. Back the adjustment off a bit and see if there is an improvement. :wonderlan

I've had the chain adjusted both ways with no real difference noted.

Gary7
7th February 2007, 14:15
Why don't you go to your dealer and test ride an 07 and see how it compares?

I haven't noticed any unusual noises during shifting on mine. There is no doubt that my Sportster is louder shifting than I remember any of my Jap bikes being, but the engagement is firm and positive.

bospider01
7th February 2007, 19:54
mine clunks from gear to gear no matter if im upshifting or downshifting. i have also been wondering if thats "normal". some other riders with harleys have said thats normal, but ive never ridden next to them to hear it...

Don Burton
8th February 2007, 02:53
mine clunks from gear to gear no matter if im upshifting or downshifting. i have also been wondering if thats "normal". some other riders with harleys have said thats normal, but ive never ridden next to them to hear it...


I know for darn sure that it isn't normal on the ones that I've ridden. They may clunk a little but no like this.

Don Burton
8th February 2007, 02:55
[QUOTE=Gary7;628771]Why don't you go to your dealer and test ride an 07 and see how it compares?

Gary, That's exactly what I'm going to do and that's why I'm asking the question on this forum so that I can go armed with some knowledge regarding the new transmission's noise habits. I want to know what others are experiencing and it seems to be a mixed bag.

Don Burton
8th February 2007, 02:57
Hey man , one of the friends I ride with has a springer softail but! His ol'lady got a 06 883 low. We ride beside each other a lot , but if he's on the sporty I hear it when he shifts . I've told him it don't sound right. My 04 don't make that racket.

My neighbor's 05 doesn't make that much noise either and when he rode mine he started shaking his head.

blastoff99
8th February 2007, 04:03
"Clunk" strikes me as one thing; "crunch," quite another. My '07 1200R is a tad on the clunky side on the upshift, although after only 300 miles I've figured out how to upshift quite smoothly and without any major clunkage.

But "crunch".... that's different.

doxbike
8th February 2007, 04:54
I've got noises, yowls/howls, etc, but what I don't have are clunks or crunches-smooth as silk

Don Burton
8th February 2007, 11:52
It's definitely not grinding but it isn't just the normal muted "clunk" of previous Sportsters either. It's sort of like a dragging clutch would feel or perhaps like shifting without a clutch with little load on the engine. It engages fine once the shift lever is pulled firmly.

Drew1200c
8th February 2007, 12:18
I've rode a few BT's 4,5,and 6speed and the clutch is easier and shifting is somewhat smoother also don't notice the lugging like on my 1200, hard to cruse at lower speeds like in parking lots and going through school zones. I get clunks when downshiftng, and going from 1 to 2. Have a hard time finding Neutral when at idle, and I,ve had it jump into Neutral a few times when speed shifting from 1 to 2. I rode my friends 05 and it didn't seem any different to me. I've just kinda gotten used to it.

Gone
8th February 2007, 14:26
In most cases improper primary chain adjustment is the main culprit when it comes to clunky shifts . These are some of the things I've found to aid in smoother shifts . Changing to synthetic oil , setting the idle higher {I've got mine set at 1100 to 1200 rpm } and putting a light load on the shift lever before you make the shift .

Don Burton
11th February 2007, 01:38
In most cases improper primary chain adjustment is the main culprit when it comes to clunky shifts . These are some of the things I've found to aid in smoother shifts . Changing to synthetic oil , setting the idle higher {I've got mine set at 1100 to 1200 rpm } and putting a light load on the shift lever before you make the shift .

Good advice but none of that helped here.

WiAlKi
11th February 2007, 16:04
My XL50 definatley shifts louder than my 82.. I don't know if you would call it a "clunk" or a "crunch" but you can sure hear it when it shifts.. more like a "snap".. I don't know how to explain the sound but it is for sure different than the ole 82...

Don Burton
5th March 2007, 23:50
I rode an 07 yesterday and next to another and they were worse than my 06! It seems that the dogs in the 06 on gearboxes are clunkier when shifting than the earlier ones.

SaltLick
6th March 2007, 02:15
what fourcats said. Iwould also check your clutch adjustment.

i adjusted my clutch (under the derby cover) and my clunk was reduced to a click. I bet thats your problem.

Don Burton
6th March 2007, 02:55
i adjusted my clutch (under the derby cover) and my clunk was reduced to a click. I bet thats your problem.
comapo

I did that a couple of months back with no change noted. The sounds of your 01 really can't compare as the 06-07s have a different dog ring arrangement in their new gearbox.

rider29206
6th March 2007, 03:33
on upshifts if you will just put pressure on the shift lever, accellerate to wherever you want to shift at then back off the throttle quickly, you will have already shifted very smoothly without the clutch now flick the throttle back to wot and get ready to do it again until u get into 5th. On downshifts I would advise using the clutch initially.

Don Burton
6th March 2007, 10:59
Thanks! I know how to do all of that. I'm not looking for a solution to this but I was looking to find out how other 06 and 07 bikes behaved. The two 07 bikes that I was with two days ago were part of a dealer test ride stable and shifted even louder than mine. Perhaps they had a full quart of lube in the gearbox. I'm now just reporting my finding in case someone else needs the answer to my question. The only things that one can do to help is to not over fill the gearbox (28 ounces and not 32 will bring it to where it's supposed to be), adjust the clutch and adjust the primary chain, all of which had been done by me a long time ago. Again the 06 and 07's have an entirely different gear box than the earlier models with a different dog ring set up. The only question that I have at this point is how different lubes might behave and I've studied that enough to know what I can try and I'll exclude anything with friction modifiers in it.

whittlebeast
6th March 2007, 14:36
It is the very nature of a setup like this. It is a function of the huge rotating mass of the Harley crankshaft and a sequentialy shifted gear box that has to be connected at one of two gears. There is no neutral between shifts to allow the crankshaft to spin down to the next RPM required by the next gear. All motorcycles clunk to some degree. What you need to determine is if the clutch really is fully disengaging. That is fairly easy to determine. Let the motor idle in neutral. Quick pull in the clutch and select first. The gear box should "clunk" into first. Next keep holding the the clutch in and pull to second. There should be no clunk if the clutch is held in. Next try to go back to first. If there is any clunk the clutch is not disengaging. The gearbox may or many not stop in neutral during this test. That is normal as the motor is not spinning the gears to let them align.

Hope this helps.

AW

Gary7
6th March 2007, 15:13
I think this is just a function of the way HD designs their transmissions. Just listen to this V-Rod pulling away from an intersection in this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFJLbUjl9ts). You can clearly hear the "snap" as he shifts into 2nd even over the Screamin' Eagle mufflers.

whittlebeast
6th March 2007, 16:42
It really is a function of large flywheels required by a wobble fire motor and a sequential shifting transmission. One of my vehicals is a 125 shifter kart. That is the other end of the spectrum with almost no flywheel/rotating mass and 13000 rpm and shifts that are done with no clutch. Shifts are all made in about .2 sec. as recorded by the datalogers. It's all the same math.

AW

Don Burton
6th March 2007, 23:38
Thanks Guys. The old Triumphs and Nortons could clunk some only when going into first gear as did the old iron head Sportsters (a bit more and when upshifting). That's what happens with a wet clutch. My neighbors's 05, with the old gearbox, has audible clunks when upshifting but they are much smoother and less noisy than the 06-07 sportys. My brother's 00 Dyna also has a more smooth and quiet clunk when upshifting. I'm not going to worry too much anymore as most of the other 07 sportys seem to be louder with the redesigned gearbox. I'll keep an eye on it. I've got until June of 08 for warranty work so I'm in good shape. The sound and feel when upshifting is just different from the pre 06 models.

HVR
7th March 2007, 00:58
mine clunks from gear to gear no matter if im upshifting or downshifting. i have also been wondering if thats "normal". some other riders with harleys have said thats normal, but ive never ridden next to them to hear it...

Ditto on my nightster. I asked about it at the dealership when i was test riding and they said it was normal.

trixter
7th March 2007, 17:29
It is the very nature of a setup like this. It is a function of the huge rotating mass of the Harley crankshaft and a sequentialy shifted gear box that has to be connected at one of two gears. There is no neutral between shifts to allow the crankshaft to spin down to the next RPM required by the next gear. All motorcycles clunk to some degree. What you need to determine is if the clutch really is fully disengaging. That is fairly easy to determine. Let the motor idle in neutral. Quick pull in the clutch and select first. The gear box should "clunk" into first. Next keep holding the the clutch in and pull to second. There should be no clunk if the clutch is held in. Next try to go back to first. If there is any clunk the clutch is not disengaging. The gearbox may or many not stop in neutral during this test. That is normal as the motor is not spinning the gears to let them align.

Hope this helps.

AW

I did this yesterday just out of curiosity since I'm just learning what's "normal" and what isn't. It was very smooth and quiet after the first gear clunk. Thanks for the tip.

Don Burton
8th March 2007, 12:24
After looking into this, riding a few bikes and reading what you guys have to say, here's my best thinking on the louder and higher pitched clunk when shifting on the new 06 on gearboxes. I'm not talking about first gear clunk here either. Correct me if my understanding isn't correct as I've never had one of these apart and likely never will.

For the newby: none of our bikes have synchronizers like car's manual transmissions have and I have never known of any motorcycles that have, although I could be mistaken. Now for the rest. The dogs are the only "synchronizers" in our gearboxes. The 06 on helical cut gearboxes have fixed constant mesh gears with sliding dog rings. The 05 and before gearboxes have straight cut gears and some slide back and forth while still maintaining gear engagement. The engagement dogs are on the gear hubs and the gear teeth are extra wide on the fixed gears so as to allow for continued engagement of the gear teeth even when not engaged to the shaft for rotatation. The older bike's shifting forks slide gears with dogs while the 06 on bikes have shifting forks that slide the dog rings only, which are splined to the respective shaft that they are mounted on. The newer helical cut gear design should have less gear whine and, as the forks only move the dog rings, there is less mass to move for each shift. Hopefully that should extend the life of the newer shifting forks as there is no longer a trap door to get into the newer gear boxes should something break. My suspicion is that the newer arrangement, with less movement of mass, is accountable for the sharper pitched clunk, when shifting, of the newer gearboxes. What do you guys think?

Dan

tigertamer
8th March 2007, 17:41
Thanks. On another thread I've noted that I've already checked the clutch adjustment, primary chain adjustment and the Formula + fluid level. I suppose that I should have made this a poll as I'm really trying to find out how many others have this problem that no adjustments can take care of. I'm also wondering if the forward control linkage mutes some of this on the Custom Bikes.

My 883C gives the customary clunk into 1st, but I havn't noticed anything odd about the rest of the gears. I have skip shifted, progressively shifted and float shifted all the gears, and the only "gnashing of teeth" I ever heard was in the Gospels of the Apostles in The New Testament!! :laugh :laugh

Don Burton
8th March 2007, 20:11
My 883C gives the customary clunk into 1st, but I havn't noticed anything odd about the rest of the gears. I have skip shifted, progressively shifted and float shifted all the gears, and the only "gnashing of teeth" I ever heard was in the Gospels of the Apostles in The New Testament!! :laugh :laugh

These are constant mesh gearboxes so it is impossiblle to gnash any teeth (on the gears) but they do make a noise when the dogs are engaging. Nothing said about that in the New Testament. Ha! Perhaps we ought to call a dentist!