Hey all! I've got a friend who has been diagnosed with severe narcolepsy, but he really wants a chance to ride a motorcycle. He's looking for something a bit more than around the block- something in the range of a 10-20 mile ride would be idea. Driving is out of the question, so we're looking for a safe way for him to be a passenger. His meds help a lot, but there's no way he can be absolutely sure he won't fall asleep.

I'd like to help him out, but I want to make sure we're as safe as possible about it. Any thoughts?

When Jenn used to ride bitch she fell asleep on the back many times... I could kinda tell when she was sleeping. No big deal, it was always on bikes that had a backrest of some sort.

It's very unlikely someone would fall when sitting on a bike with a backrest, feet on pegs...

Depending on how big your passenger is, this is the only thing I've seen that might work:
http://www.little-riders.com/Ridingbelt.html
or
http://beprsystem.com/index.html

I know that this is a U.K. based association, but you could check their site, go to the forum and see what you can find on narcolepsy.

This is The National Association for Bikers with a Disability.

http://www.nabd.org.uk/

When I was a kid I slepted between mom and dad when they were on the bike ;) When I was larger, just me and my Dad, I used to put my hands in his jacket pockets and sleep.

Side car...then its as many miles as he wants

The only way I would feel comfortable with a narcoleptic passenger is if the passenger was in a sidecar.

Actually, that's exactly the problem- he absolutely could fall asleep while sitting on a bike, with or without a backrest, and regardless of what else is going on around him. It's not like normal falling asleep 'cause you're tired or 'cause the noise is soothing. It's more like your brain shuts down. My friend can't safely drive anymore, either, for the same reason.

When Jenn used to ride bitch she fell asleep on the back many times... I could kinda tell when she was sleeping. No big deal, it was always on bikes that had a backrest of some sort.

It's very unlikely someone would fall when sitting on a bike with a backrest, feet on pegs...

Side car is an interesting idea- although it'd be a lot more feasible if I had one!

This is also an interesting idea http://beprsystem.com/index.html. It looks like it basically fastens the passenger to the rider. Has anybody here used it?

Duct-tape, bungee cords, rope and a sissy bar?

Even strapping the passenger to the driver, I don't know if I'd trust that. It's not like your friend would just be drifting off and able to jerk awake if leaning too far in any direction. And it'd be kind of hard to reach around and hold them on while driving at the same time, if you even had notice. Maybe look into renting a bike with sidecar for a day.

I would just try duct tape and a long sissy bar, it always worked for the carseat after the kids were born.

Depending on how big your passenger is, this is the only thing I've seen that might work:
http://www.little-riders.com/Ridingbelt.html
or
http://beprsystem.com/index.html


Personally I think those solutions are IDIOTIC. The Last F@#%# thing I'd want to do if God forbid I crashed while my daughter was on the back of the bike would be to have her connected to me so that my 220 lbs might land on her 70 lbs.... plus the risks of elbows, knees, helmet etc all carrying the the greater momentum of my greater mass.

F'n stupid!

Actually, that's exactly the problem- he absolutely could fall asleep while sitting on a bike, with or without a backrest, and regardless of what else is going on around him. It's not like normal falling asleep 'cause you're tired or 'cause the noise is soothing. It's more like your brain shuts down. My friend can't safely drive anymore, either, for the same reason.

Uh, look more closely at my post I said:

When Jenn used to ride bitch she fell asleep on the back many times... I could kinda tell when she was sleeping. No big deal, it was always on bikes that had a backrest of some sort.

It's very unlikely someone would fall when sitting on a bike with a backrest, feet on pegs...

I said it is unlikely someone would FALL, not fall ASLEEP, but unlikely that someone would FALL AFTER THEY WERE ASLEEP.

Both my ex and my wife used to fall asleep on the backs of my bikes - my FLHRI, my R1100RS, my Jackal.... none of them ever started to fall to one side or the other. Granted, I probably wasn't riding agressively in the curves when they were asleep, but still.

Remember that a bike holds itself upright under motion, and you don't have the tendency to want to fall to one side or the other. Yeah, if a person starts to lean a little one way or the other the bike CAN start to break over to that direction but the rider remains in control of it.

Here's a question, when a narcaleptic falls asleep, how difficult is it to wake them? I ask because I could always TELL when my passenger fell asleep. I'd normally let them sleep, but I knew a nudge could wake them if need be...

Kev

PS - also, you could consider renting or borrowing a dresser, as they tend to have arm rests that further form a cocoon which would prevent a sleeping passenger from falling.

what kev said sounds about right but i vote sidecar or rent a goldwing dont think you can out of that backseat

what kev said sounds about right but i vote sidecar or rent a E- Glide don't think you can out of that backseat

:smoke:clap My thoughts Exactly!!!

Duct-tape, bungee cords, rope and a sissy bar?

I knew a guy who used to do that to his wife. She'd constantly fall asleep on his Glide in a matter of minutes, so before they left, he'd always bungee her up to the bike. Fortunately, he was only pulled over once for it (that I know of). Apparently, having an unconscious woman tied up on the back of your bike is cause for concern...

I don't think the LEO's would look too kindly on it either... They would probably be inclined to haul yerass to jail and have you accidentally fall down the stairs.

It's not a bag of groceries that you'd be transporting...

You might be able to fab one of those e-glide style backrests that have armrests onto the back. That might add a little safety. You could also go for passenger floorboards instead of pegs. It would probably be easier just to find someone with a tourer that's already set up that way and take him/her for a ride.

Like a lot of people said, a sidecar sounds like a good alternative.

Personally I think those solutions are IDIOTIC. The Last F@#%# thing I'd want to do if God forbid I crashed while my daughter was on the back of the bike would be to have her connected to me so that my 220 lbs might land on her 70 lbs.... plus the risks of elbows, knees, helmet etc all carrying the the greater momentum of my greater mass.

F'n stupid!


Kev



The only part of your comment that made any sense is this " God forbid I crashed while my daughter was on the back". The rest of your statement was just plain, and I'm going to follow your lead and be as sensitive and politically correct as you are, "F'n stupid!"

Sorry Kev- you're right- I read FALL ASLEEP when you said FALL. My bad!

As far as how easy it is to wake them up- it's a question I hadn't thought to ask, so thanks!

The more I think about it, the more I don't think strapping my friend to me is a great idea, and strapping him to the bike seams even more sketchy. The idea of renting or borrowing a dresser sounds more feasible than anything else so far- arm rests and floorboards should help quite a bit!

Thanks for the feedback, everyone!



Uh, look more closely at my post I said:


I said it is unlikely someone would FALL, not fall ASLEEP, but unlikely that someone would FALL AFTER THEY WERE ASLEEP.

Both my ex and my wife used to fall asleep on the backs of my bikes - my FLHRI, my R1100RS, my Jackal.... none of them ever started to fall to one side or the other. Granted, I probably wasn't riding agressively in the curves when they were asleep, but still.

Remember that a bike holds itself upright under motion, and you don't have the tendency to want to fall to one side or the other. Yeah, if a person starts to lean a little one way or the other the bike CAN start to break over to that direction but the rider remains in control of it.

Here's a question, when a narcaleptic falls asleep, how difficult is it to wake them? I ask because I could always TELL when my passenger fell asleep. I'd normally let them sleep, but I knew a nudge could wake them if need be...

Kev

PS - also, you could consider renting or borrowing a dresser, as they tend to have arm rests that further form a cocoon which would prevent a sleeping passenger from falling.

I knew a guy who used to do that to his wife. She'd constantly fall asleep on his Glide in a matter of minutes, so before they left, he'd always bungee her up to the bike. Fortunately, he was only pulled over once for it (that I know of). Apparently, having an unconscious woman tied up on the back of your bike is cause for concern...

There was a female senator about a decade ago who wanted to push for seat belt laws for motorcycles until people who actually understood physics (unlike seemingly CCCPULL below) explained that in a crash a person doesn't want to stay attached to the larger, dangerous object.

The only part of your comment that made any sense is this " God forbid I crashed while my daughter was on the back". The rest of your statement was just plain, and I'm going to follow your lead and be as sensitive and politically correct as you are, "F'n stupid!"

So you want to explain how the laws of physics work in your universe? And why it would be much more dangerous for a child or person of smaller stature to be connected to the rider in the case of crash than it would be for them not to be connected?

:geek

It might sound stupid, but I'm serious :
What about some pedals like on older sportbicycles ? I mean with a strap or a toe-clip in wich you put your feet in/under ?
It would really prevent your buddy to fall sideways.
And the backrest and you as the rider will prevent him falling forward of backwards.
Something like this :

http://www.mijnalbum.nl/Foto-QIUXA7KW-G.jpg

Think about it...

Good luck.

There was a female senator about a decade ago who wanted to push for seat belt laws for motorcycles until people who actually understood physics (unlike seemingly CCCPULL below) explained that in a crash a person doesn't want to stay attached to the larger, dangerous object.



So you want to explain how the laws of physics work in your universe? And why it would be much more dangerous for a child or person of smaller stature to be connected to the rider in the case of crash than it would be for them not to be connected?

:geek

The laws of physics in my universe work the same as yours, the difference is I don't make up hypothetical situations to prove a point. Where's the empirical evidence? Unlike you, I would rather secure someone that allow them to just fall freely.

Coming from a guy who is comfortable with his having his wife asleep while riding and just because in his mind it is unlikely she can fall, your opinion is on this subject is invalid to me.

PS If you ride a motorcycle thinking of crashing, maybe riding is not for you.

Personally, I think it is a very poor idea to take this friend out on any motorcycle. I just looked this up on WebMD...

Symptoms of narcolepsy include:

Excessive daytime sleepiness (EDS): In general, EDS interferes with normal activities on a daily basis, whether or not a person with narcolepsy has sufficient sleep at night. People with EDS report mental cloudiness, a lack of energy and concentration, memory lapses, a depressed mood, and/or extreme exhaustion.
Cataplexy: This symptom consists of a sudden loss of muscle tone that leads to feelings of weakness and a loss of voluntary muscle control. It can cause symptoms ranging from slurred speech to total body collapse depending on the muscles involved and is often triggered by intense emotion, for example surprise, laughter, or anger.
Hallucinations: Usually, these delusional experiences are vivid and frequently they are frightening. The content is primarily visual, but any of the other senses can be involved. These are called hypnagogic hallucinations when accompanying sleep onset and hypnopompic hallucinations when occurring during awakening.
Sleep paralysis: This symptom involves the temporary inability to move or speak while falling asleep or waking up. These episodes are generally brief lasting a few seconds to several minutes. After episodes end, people rapidly recover their full capacity to move and speak.

These people aren't sleeping lightly. They go into immediate REM sleep, and are paralyzed. It would be like riding with a quadraplegic.

He could also wake up having a hallucination. No telling what he would do if he was able to move and having a hallucination.

As far as strapping the guy to you or to the bike in any way, well it's just a bad idea. If you have an accident, he stays with the bike or stays strapped to you, both bad scenarios.

Read more about it here...http://www.webmd.com/sleep-disorders/guide/narcolepsy

Do yourself and your friend a favor. If he wants to go on a ride, do it on a bike with a sidecar.

Following Erik's idea...
Made me think of it actually...

A guy I know fashioned a set of footrest/floorboards out of a set of wheelchair footrests that had the securing straps on them. He cut them off.
He made the mount shaft to fit his footrest support on the front of his Softail.

Just another idea...

I have to agree with HRS ^^^^^^

Not trying to tell you what to do, I just
know that I would not do it.

The laws of physics in my universe work the same as yours, the difference is I don't make up hypothetical situations to prove a point. Where's the empirical evidence?


http://www.physicsclassroom.com/mmedia/newtlaws/mb.cfm

The Motorcyclist
According to Newton's first law, an object in motion continues in motion with the same speed and in the same direction unless acted upon by an unbalanced force. It is the natural tendency of objects to keep on doing what they are doing. All objects resist changes in their state of motion. In the absence of an unbalanced force, an object in motion will maintain this state of motion. This is often called the law of inertia.

The law of inertia is most commonly experienced when riding on the roadways. In fact, the tendency of moving objects to continue in motion is a common cause of a variety of transportation injuries - of both small and large magnitudes. Consider for instance the unfortunate collision of a motorcycle with a wall (or any obstacle in ints path). Upon contact with the wall, an unbalanced force acts upon the motorcycle to abruptly decelerate it to rest. The rider of the motorcycle would also be decelerated to rest if strapped to the motorcycle by seat belts or some form of safety harness (which is not necessarily a good idea - please read on!). Being strapped tightly to the motorcycle, the driver would always share the same state of motion as the motorcycle. As the motorcycle accelerates, the rider accelerates with it. As the motorcycle decelerates, the rider decelerates with it. And as the motorcycle maintains a constant speed, the driver maintains a constant speed as well.

But what would happen if the rider were not wearing the seat belt? What motion would the rider undergo if she/he failed to use a seat belt and the motorcycle were brought to a sudden and abrupt halt by a collision with a wall or any other obstacle in its path? Were this scenario to occur, the driver would no longer share the same state of motion as the motorcycle. If a seat belt were used on a motorcycle, then the forces necessary for accelerated and decelerated motion would exist. Without a seat belt, the rider is more likely to maintain its state of motion. The animation below depicts this scenario.

http://www.physicsclassroom.com/mmedia/newtlaws/mb.gif

If the motorcycle were to abruptly stop, then the rider in motion would continue in motion. The rider would likely be propelled from the motorcycle and be hurled into the air. Once they leave the motorcycle, the rider becomes a projectile and continues in projectile-like motion.

But why then are motorcycles not equipped with safety harnesses? Is this a gross oversight made by motorcycle manufacturers? Absolutely not! While no transportation accident is safe, it is the goal of the manufacturers of all roadway vehicles to produce a vehicle which maximizes the safety of its riders. In the case of a motorcycle, it is believed that the rider's safety is maximized by not strapping the rider to the motorcycle. In a car accident, the safest place to be is in the car; yet in a motorcycle accident, the worst place to be is on the motorcycle. The reason? Cars are four-wheeled vehicles which have a stable platform capable of resisting sideways motion and resisting tipping over. As such, being strapped to the a car in an accident is an advantageous strategy for maximizing passenger safety. On the other hand, a motorcycle is a single-track vehicle (two wheels) which are prone to tipping over and sliding into and underneath the obstacles which they hit. Imagine being strapped to your motorcycle as you slide underneath a 2000-pound car. Being strapped to the motorcycle by a safety harness, you would share the fate of the motorcycle itself - being crushed by the 2000-pound car. Your chance of survival would be minimal. On the other hand, if you were to leave the motorcycle and be flung into the air, it is more likely that your hopeful impact with the ground would slowly alter your velocity as you skid to a stop over a lengthened period of time. Motorcycles are inherently dangerous vehicles; yet like all vehicles, manufacturers design them in a manner that maximizes rider safety. The omission of safety harnesses from motorcycles means that the motorcyclist does not share the same fate as the tipped over and skidding single-track vehicle.





http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/72491

Seatbelts, on motorcycles, are not a required safety feature, for this reason:

Seatbelts were designed for automobiles, to prevent the passenger(s) from striking the windshield or being thrown from a vehicle, in an auto crash.

Seatbelts, on a motorcycle, could be more of a safety hazard, than a safety feature. more cyclist have been saved, by being thrown from a motorcycle, rather had they been seatbelted. in most all cases, the bike goes one direction, the cyclist, the other.



And your counter is?



Unlike you, I would rather secure someone that allow them to just fall freely.

Coming from a guy who is comfortable with his having his wife asleep while riding and just because in his mind it is unlikely she can fall, your opinion is on this subject is invalid to me.


And what makes you think someone is going to fall freely? You're basing this on what experience or evidence?

AT LEAST offer some life experience that demonstrates it's likely?

I counter with experience riding hundreds of thousands of miles... at least a couple of hundred miles with a loved one asleep on the rear.

I've discussed this with other bikers over the years who's wives or girlfriends take a nap from time-to-time.

I've seriously never ONCE talked to ANYONE who has had someone fall off the passenger seat asleep.

It must be possible, but it SEEMS quite unlikely.

And the possible dangers of physcially securing them to the bike or the rider are obvious.

The laws of physics in my universe work the same as yours, the difference is I don't make up hypothetical situations to prove a point. Where's the empirical evidence? Unlike you, I would rather secure someone that allow them to just fall freely.

Coming from a guy who is comfortable with his having his wife asleep while riding and just because in his mind it is unlikely she can fall, your opinion is on this subject is invalid to me.

PS If you ride a motorcycle thinking of crashing, maybe riding is not for you.

As of yet this question is untried and all answers remain hypothetical.

I don't get on my bike and think I am not going to crash, A good rider prepares for the worst and hopes for the best. Crashing or laying down a bike each and every time we go out is a real possibility.

Personally, I think it is a very poor idea to take this friend out on any motorcycle. I just looked this up on WebMD...



These people aren't sleeping lightly. They go into immediate REM sleep, and are paralyzed. It would be like riding with a quadraplegic.

He could also wake up having a hallucination. No telling what he would do if he was able to move and having a hallucination.

As far as strapping the guy to you or to the bike in any way, well it's just a bad idea. If you have an accident, he stays with the bike or stays strapped to you, both bad scenarios.

Read more about it here...http://www.webmd.com/sleep-disorders/guide/narcolepsy

Do yourself and your friend a favor. If he wants to go on a ride, do it on a bike with a sidecar.

That's good info, that would make me prefer a sidecar, but I still think a tour bike would likely be fine...

That's good info, that would make me prefer a sidecar, but I still think a tour bike would likely be fine...



Would you take a quadraplegic on a tour bike? :rolleyes:

Would you take a quadraplegic on a tour bike? :rolleyes:

I dunno - maybe - especially if there was only a small chance of him being a quad during the ride, and if that would go away if he woke up...

It would depend on the particular person and their experiences with the narco...

I dunno - maybe - especially if there was only a small chance of him being a quad during the ride, and if that would go away if he woke up...

It would depend on the particular person and their experiences with the narco...



I wouldn't. Especially if there is some chance that he is going to possibly wake up in a hallucination, freak out, and take me down with him.:frownthre

And the article says the episodes can last from a few seconds to a few minutes. How would you feel if your 'friend' just slumped sideways and fell off during this 'short' time?

I just think it's a REALLY poor idea.

I wouldn't. Especially if there is some chance that he is going to possibly wake up in a hallucination, freak out, and take me down with him.:frownthre

And the article says the episodes can last from a few seconds to a few minutes. How would you feel if your 'friend' just slumped sideways and fell off during this 'short' time?

I just think it's a REALLY poor idea.

I hear ya, and you're right it probably is - if there's a decent chance of it.

I gotta think that someone who has been living with Narco (and his/her family) would know the potentials for such things - i.e. how likely or unlikely it might be...

Hot Rod Sporty : Personally, I think it is a very poor idea to take this friend out on any motorcycle. I just looked this up on WebMD...
http://www.webmd.com/sleep-disorders/guide/narcolepsy

Thanks. Makes me immediatelly withdraw my idea of the toe-strap peg thing.

Kev M : http://www.physicsclassroom.com/mmedia/newtlaws/mb.cfm
Thank you. Even if the guy wasn't narcoleptic, tying him down with my idea of toe-strap like pegs would tie him to the bike in an accident as well, so...another good argument to withdraw my idea.

A sidecar (saw a post about an 883R with one just today) -considering what's been exchanged argumantative here - would be the wisest choice.

yes, kev noted above that regularly when people fall asleep on a bike they will remain upright, any motion towards toppling or a head falling to the side would cause the person to wake up..

as quoted above in webMD, id be worried about someone with narcolepsy(sp) waking themselves up.

but to go against what was quoted from webMD, not all conditions may be true for everyone that has narcolepsy. he could have it really bad, or he could have a minor case of it, or anywhere in between. so thats definitely something you need to find out before you can get accurate suggestions from us.

side car or touring motorcycle depending on what he is like when he wakes(hallucinations).. the rear seats on some of those touring motorcycles(especially the ones with the backrest for the driver too) are so tucked in with the big armrests, touring pacs, etc that you could literally put a dead body back there and it wouldnt go anywhere. maybe a breakaway strap that would hold his weight back, but let him free in the case of an accident?


as for the strap your kid to you belts.. thats the dumbest thing ive ever seen. if the kid is too young to not be able to hold on, the kid should not be anywhere close to a motorcycle or an atv. and if a kid is on a motorcycle, he should definitely not be strapped to 200lbs of wrecking ball.

I can't imagine even considering something like that. No way can it be safe to you or the rider. If something happened, how could you handle the guilt? Sidecar or forget it.

Forgive me everyone but at what point do we tell friends, relatives and the like that it is just not safe for them to ride, espicially when we have to comtemplate some way of keeping them on the bike.

For me, that decision will be made after gathering lots of info from a variety of sources and considering all the options. That's why I posted this- to see if there were things that I hadn't thought of that can or should influence my final decision. And, a number of issues and possibilities have been brought up that I hadn't considered, so thank you!

If, after gathering all of the info I can, I feel like the final situation will be unsafe, this ride won't happen.

Forgive me everyone but at what point do we tell friends, relatives and the like that it is just not safe for them to ride, espicially when we have to comtemplate some way of keeping them on the bike.

isn't there something that was designed for longhaul truckers that emitted a loud noise when the drivers head tilted to far ????

I remember hearing of that once. don't know if it would wake a sleep disorder, but who knows....

isn't there something that was designed for longhaul truckers that emitted a loud noise when the drivers head tilted to far ????

I remember hearing of that once. don't know if it would wake a sleep disorder, but who knows....

It was a thing like an old style hearing that clipped over your ear like the bluetooth devices. Has some type of sensor that determines head tilt angle.

http://www.cartuningcentral.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/car-sleep-alert.jpg