As I have said all along, the new XR is nothing but a dolled up sportster. I have taken a lot of heat for my comments, (especially from Kev) I have also stated that a modern day replica of the XR could be made using all of the latest technology. (Also, taking lots of heat as well) Mert Lawwill proves my point that a modern replica of the XR can be made.

Please check out his website at: www.mertlawwill.com

Look under the "Street Tracker" section. NOW THIS IS A MODERN DAY XR!:banana

If the factory produced a bike like this, it would sell like hot cakes. Unique, high tech, high performance. But, all the factory is able to produce is the lame excuse they call an XR.

Now, I am ready to hear all the appoligisers for the factorys lame effort XR.

Jesse,

I agree with you in principle but the Lawwill bike probably costs $25K - the web site doesn't say. It's likely one of those deals where if you have to ask you can't afford it. Harley could probably build it a little cheaper but it is doubtful it would meet EPA specs with those Supertrapp mufflers. The 1200XR is a step in the right direction and perhaps with an aftermarket exhaust would look tolerable. I'll bet it tips the scales over 550 since Harley most likely retained the rubber engine mount. It would be interesting to know what the Lawwill bike weighs. I’d love to buy or build one – but it would not be cheap. The STD heads he uses run over $2500 per pair. 72guy is building something similar under the projects area of the forum and I’m betting his bill will exceed $30K. The result will be stunning never-the-less.

Robin

Well, the Lawwill version certainly seems to be a more accurate replication of the original XR. However, with those dual carbs and exhaust, I doubt the bike is street legal in California. I'm not a fan of flat-tracking (or NASCAR for that matter), and I like the new XLR (or XR or whatever it's called). Upside down forks, fuel-injection, 2-2 upswept exhaust, etc. About time HD put "modern" equipment on a Sportster! If the XR was available when I bought my 1200R, I would've opted for one of those, depending on how much more it was than a 1200R. I really like that 2-2 exhaust, and it does look to be more "modern" looking than a Custom or Roadster.

As I have said all along, the new XR is nothing but a dolled up sportster. I have taken a lot of heat for my comments, (especially from Kev) I have also stated that a modern day replica of the XR could be made using all of the latest technology. (Also, taking lots of heat as well) Mert Lawwill proves my point that a modern replica of the XR can be made.

Please check out his website at: mertlawwill.com

Look under the "Street Tracker" section. NOW THIS IS A MODERN DAY XR!:banana

If the factory produced a bike like this, it would sell like hot cakes. Unique, high tech, high performance. But, all the factory is able to produce is the lame excuse they call an XR.

Now, I am ready to hear all the appoligisers for the factorys lame effort XR.

And you obviously deserved all the heat.

Like the XR or don't, that's fine, I could care less.

But DO YOU RIDE A SPORTY? Cause the XR promises to be a better bike in terms of performance (hp, handling, braking etc). So bitchin' about it is kinda like stepping on your own member no?

Now I GUESS I can understand that you want it to be something more, but Lawill is building customs/kits. And for $25k Harley wouldn't sell A SINGLE ONE, so to compare the 2 is sorta dumb.

I can understand your desire for the XR from Harley to "be more like" the Lawill, but it's apples and oranges from an economic standpoint.


I like the new XLR (or XR or whatever it's called). Upside down forks, fuel-injection, 2-2 upswept exhaust, etc. About time HD put "modern" equipment on a Sportster!

BINGO, that's what it comes down to for me.

A step in the right direction for performance and running gear.

Am I in LOVE with the look? Well, honestly, not 100% that's for damn sure.

I wonder how you could merge some of the design features of the 1200N with the suspension, power and brakes of the XR1200?

Now we'd be getting somewhere eh?

Kev

The one thing you forget is The Lawwill is a complete one up custom built bike. With the mass production the factory has, they could pare down the price big time. And, of course they would have to make it fuel injected to meet EPA requirements. But again, they already have the resources and technology.

So this is not big deal. They could probally put something like this out for 12K I am guessing. Not much more than what they are proposing for the current XR.

But, it proves my point that it can be done. I am no appoligist for the MOCO. They need to get on the stick and make suff that is unique and attractive.

In my opinion, head to head looks, the Lawwill bike makes the XR look bad. The Lawwill bike definately looks more like the original XR bikes.

BUT I appluad HD for continuing to put the Sport back in the Sportster. I really think they should have done something very different with the exhaust, but most will likely change that out anyway. It is a step in the right direction and I sincerely hope that several things on the XR flow into the other Sportsters in the line up; like downdraft EFI, the forks, the brake, etc.

BTW, I do not find it unreasonable to compare the two bikes. Granted one is a $25K bike vs. the XR price. But one is a very limited production bike. IF HD just took the concept of the Lawwill, they could definately mass produce the bike for SIGNIFICANLY less. There isn't anything on that bike that HD could not do for a lot less money.

Fuuudge..... now why'd I have to go look at that... now Im depressed.:doh

Any Sportster is nothing but a "dolled up" 883 standard. That's why they work so well for us. We all know we could spend less and get more full throttle high rev performance on one hand or more comfortable touring on the other. We don't because the sporty works magic in us, the others are just appliances with no connection to the past. Kev- your assignment is to build an XR1200N! LOL
Matt

The sportster is what it is. I guess I don't understand folks who rail against it.

If you want a Hi-Pefermance bike, there are plenty to choose from.

The sportster is not aimed at that market as far as I can see.

As I have said all along, the new XR is nothing but a dolled up sportster. I have taken a lot of heat for my comments, (especially from Kev) I have also stated that a modern day replica of the XR could be made using all of the latest technology. (Also, taking lots of heat as well) Mert Lawwill proves my point that a modern replica of the XR can be made.
Please check out his website at: www.mertlawwill.com
Look under the "Street Tracker" section. NOW THIS IS A MODERN DAY XR!:banana
If the factory produced a bike like this, it would sell like hot cakes. Unique, high tech, high performance. But, all the factory is able to produce is the lame excuse they call an XR. Now, I am ready to hear all the appoligisers for the factorys lame effort XR.


With all the whining you have seen on here about how the XR needs to come in at about $10,000, it should be obvious that most Sportster owners are not up to spending $12,000 - $13,000 or so on a "real, performance" XR. Look at the huge percentage of buyers who settle for 45 hp 883's in order to save $1,500 up front over the cost of a 1200. The main difference between Sportster owners and Big-Twin owners is that B-T owners don't worry about spending $28,000 on a 60-70 hp rolling chrome display, and perhaps $5,000-$10,000 more to hop it up so it will carry it's 770 lbs. down the road quickly. Light weight and sport handling are still not a part of the equation for them - it's not a performance bike, it's a HOG.
There are performance options for Sportster engines: Storz, Buell, Wakan, Lawwill, Spondon, etc. Most Sportster owners won't go those routes either because they simply cost more money or they cry about how they are "ugly". Ugly-smuggly - if it gets to the head of the canyon first it's the most functionally beautiful bike on the road. 90 hp, 540 lb. XR's are for profiling first and riding fast second. H-D knows their market to the nearest cheap dime.

All I am saying is the factory needs to think out of the box some more. They did a fine job with the V-Rod and it has proven that they can produce a high tech motorcycle. It has also proven that it can go head to head with the Jap bikes in open competition.

The current proposed XR proto type is on the right track and has all the right stuff. All it needs is the STD heads (or factory heads w/ dual fuel injection) , left side EPA legal exauust and cosmetics to make it into a fairly close replica of the Lawwill bike. Not a real big change to the proto type. (We all know the first thing to go will be the factory air boxes and exauust and hello K&N filters and Supertraps) Not a big deal to produce when your a multi million dollar company and not a one man band like Mert Lawwill. So we know the costs will be very competitive with the European bikes. Granted it won't have all the trick stuff like the Lawwill bike but, thats what you give up for mass production. But, this WOULD set it apart from your run of the mill sportster and put it more into competition with some of the best european bikes.

I love Harley Davidson and my sportsters. All I am saying is they need to think out of the box more like the Japs and Europeans do. Thats my final comment on this.

They had one of the Mert Lawwill bikes at my local dealer, apparently he left it there to advertise it or something along those lines, it was a really clean and unique machine, though it is doubtful that they could create a reasonably priced factory production version of that.

The sportster is what it is. I guess I don't understand folks who rail against it.

If you want a Hi-Pefermance bike, there are plenty to choose from.

The sportster is not aimed at that market as far as I can see.

:clap :clap


All I am saying is the factory needs to think out of the box some more. They did a fine job with the V-Rod and it has proven that they can produce a high tech motorcycle. It has also proven that it can go head to head with the Jap bikes in open competition.

The current proposed XR proto type is on the right track and has all the right stuff. All it needs is the STD heads (or factory heads w/ dual fuel injection) , left side EPA legal exauust and cosmetics to make it into a fairly close replica of the Lawwill bike. Not a real big change to the proto type. (We all know the first thing to go will be the factory air boxes and exauust and hello K&N filters and Supertraps)

I love Harley Davidson and my sportsters. All I am saying is they need to think out of the box more like the Japs and Europeans do. Thats my final comment on this.

I guess we're not so far apart on this. I can agree with all that!



Kev- your assignment is to build an XR1200N! LOL
Matt

:doh :laugh

Don't laugh, I posted elsewhere today where over the weekend my wife finally started to ease her position on the whole height of her bike thing (she's been riding the 883L for 2 years now because of the height). This weekend she basically started to concede that she's feeling more comfortable standing up things like the 1200R. So I tell her, fine we can get one for you if you want, and she says "it doesn't make her drool like the Nightster."

I reminded her that IF we upgraded her to a 1200 that was more fun for me to play with in the curves that I could skip waiting on the XR and buy her that Ducati she wants.

But that IF we went with a Nightster, I'd want to raise it. :shhhh ;)

Hey Kevin,
What d'ya think? Would you buy one? Would I buy one? Can Harley find the Vr1000 fairing molds?
Just a thought.
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b29/KingCord/heykevin.jpg

Worm, that's kinda cool.

I'd prefer a smaller, more cafe fairing (or naked, I dig naked), but something like that could be cool too...

There's a Lawhill bike at my local dealer for $32,000. I didn't like the dual air cleaner set up 'cause it would interfere with my leg, otherwise, I liked it. But $32,000? I could buy a couple of bikes, maybe 3 or 4 to suit different riding environments, for that. But I bet Jay Leno has one.

mmmmm,
i think Mert has been looking at my ride.

yeah!! Thats Nice...

it does look like a vr1000 fairing... this may be a TT version like the xrtt road racers back in the late 60's early 70s. I like the look of the new xr1200, not as cool as a 295lbs flat tracker or the xr750 hill climbers. But it is a canvas to do what you want.

A good buddy did a total restoration on a XR1000 that he found rusting away in Alaska. Good thing he was meticulous and patient and mechanical; that thing was a maintenance nightmare!

It was solid mount and shook the ground when it was running, but oh what a beautiful noise. He had to carry a tool kit on every ride and always had a tube of loc-tite handy.

That bike looked the business, ran like a banshee in a hurricane and had the most beautiful full-tilt sound you can imagine. If I'd had the money at the time it would be in my garage today without any hesitation. Closest bike to a streetable XR750 HD will ever make.

If you have the $$, mechanical ability and access to a shop with plenty of tools and equipment you can piece together a nice streettracker...doesn't have to be at Mert's level of fit and finish. That's just extraordinary!

The 'book' has already been written as to what works and what doesn't, no need to start from scratch. The frame geometry is known, the components---front end, mono/dual-shock swing arms are all readily available. Just have to jump some hoops to get it licensed and registered.

If I had the time & $$ it would be underway NOW!

If you really have an itch for a HD Sportster based bike that is truly 'outside any box' look at the Buell line. I mean LOOK at the Buell bikes. Really LOOK at them. Detail upon detail upon detail. I can safely guess that any XR1200 that HD offers will have no significant performance advantage over the Buell's.

That said, I guess I'm a die hard Sportster fanatic. I'm on my 3rd one since '80. Had the '68 XLCH for 25 years before turning it over to a man more capable and dedicated. Three Buell's have also been turned out of the stable to new homes. I've held on to the Ducati SSie because it is the epitome of sportbikes in a reasonable sense. The new Nightster was a gift from the Angels to get me back in the saddle, invigorate my imagination and get my tools in order.

Honestly? I like Sportsters better than BT's. I wouldn't mind having a Super Glide for short runs or an Ultra Classic Standard for some long range running. The Sporty just floats my boat.

When I was invited to my first Springfield Mile race weekend I was hooked on flat track racing and the bikes being raced. We can drool all day over race bikes; I'll be standing in line passing the paper towels. But I've come to realize that the practicality of producing a street bike based on the 750 engine design is a technical challenge that even HD has shy'd away from.

Reliability is huge issue. Modifications take it to another dimension. Performance liabilities, EPA, marketing...

Personally, I prefer the Nightster over the XR1200 concept. I don't expect too much from the Nightster, the gains made from altering the suspension and 'awakening' the engine are icing on cake.

I would expect much much more from an XR1200. Given the present political and social climate, HD will present a bike that has been 'neutered' near to extremes. I can't imagine what it's performance numbers will look like but I know for sure they won't surpass a basic stock Buell XB never mind the 1125R. Apples to oranges ya, but if you're hungry for an orange why settle for an apple even if it's a few $$ less?

If you really want a streettracker, buy a used race bike and convert it or just take a leap and build one yourself...

Life is way way too short to live with any regret. Jump out of the box, breathe deep and just do it.

If the factory produced a bike like this, it would sell like hot cakes. Unique, high tech, high performance. But, all the factory is able to produce is the lame excuse they call an XR.

.

I was just reading the latest issue of th "The Enthusiast". They had an article on Harley's "Wrecking Crew " Racing team. I think if you have a dealership and want to sponsor a flat track team, Harley will build you a fleet of XR 750's today. I still don't know why they won't make a street version.

IMHO $25k for a Mert Lawwill XR750 is cheap. Mert Lawwill was one of the most spectacular dirt track racers of all time. Anyone old, and lucky enough, to have actually seen him compete, speaks his name with reverence. He competed at a time when Harley's riders worked hand-in-hand with the factory wrenches to develop these bikes, and I look at him as the "Godfather of the XR750".

Let the HD factory build whatever they want, Mert Lawwill builds very special versions that reflect his racing heritage and anyone who has the honor of riding one should be paying extra for experience.