ok mine spits oil all over my bike everytime i ride.....my buddy never has this problem....our bikes are one year apart he has 98 sport sport i have 99 883 soon be converted.....why does mine do it all the time....coiuld a breather bolt be loose or something i dont know wany suggestions??

This may give you some help with it.
http://xlforum.net/vbportal/forums/showthread.php?t=15705

Have you changed the oil?, and then bleed the drain line after you refilled to get air out of the line as in the manuel.

change the oil if you don't change it often enough... by often enough i'd say if you ride a lot of short distance (under 50 miles), you should change it like every 1000-1500... if you do a lot of mid to long distance (50+) about every 2000-2500... and everytime you change the oil clean the air cleaner filter really well... also, don't keep so much oil in your oil-bag... i keep mine a little low and it seems to help...

You might want to do a compression test followed by a leak down test.

FYI, the term "blow-by" is used to describe the SMALL amount of exhaust gas that "blows by" the piston rings and enters the crank case. These 'blow-by gasses are then either vented to the atmosphere, or routed to the intake.

In "the old days" engines had a vent pipe called a "road tube" that dumped blow-by under the chassis. Newer engines use Positive Crank Case Ventilation, or PCV systems to route blow-by to the intake.

The main issue here is oil mist entrainment.

While the engine is running the crankshaft and other moving parts are throwing oil all over the place. Becase the oil is hot it has a tendency to form a mist or fog in the crank case. When blow-by gasses enter and then leave the crank case some of this oil mist is captured or entrained by the gas. The more blow-by there is, the more mist is carried away. By the same token, having too much oil in the crankcase will increase the amount of oil mist due to the simple fact that there is more oil for the crank shaft to throw around.

When you add excessive blow-by to high oil level, you end up with a mess. Some additional down sides of excessive blow-by are increased oil consumption (for both vent to atmosphere and PCV systems), loss of performance in PCV systems due to oil fouling, increased emissions, premature O2 sensor failure in EFI systems, and the list goes on.

The bottom line is, you need to find out what is causing the blow-by and fix it. Do yourself a favor and get the compression and leak down tests done ASAP.

Run less oil in your oil tank and see if that helps....

This it what I used:

http://www.denniskirk.com/jsp/product_catalog/Product.jsp?skuId=H30007&store=Main&catId=&productId=pH30007&leafCatId=&mmyId=

Just what Rascal said,I had same problem put cross over and filter at bottom of oil filter works like a charm.

I put the horse shoe rebreather kit routed a tube to a filter and placed it under the bike and problem solved.....

OK, let me say this again: SOME oil loss due to SOME "blow-by" is normal.

With that said, the ONLY reason to install a "blow-by kit" is if you are using an aftermarket air cleaner set up that does not route blow-by to the intake.

If you have so much blow-by that the air cleaner is dripping oil, or the oil filter is being saturated with oil, then you have a MUCH BIGGER problem to deal with.

As an example, I put a little over 2000 miles on my bike since last September. The bike has an SE air cleaner with a K&N filter. Blow by goes directly into the A/C. I have opened the A/C several times to check things out and there was very little oil on the filter,

If you are getting enough blow-by to cause oil to drip from the A/C, you have a SERIOUS problem, and installing a blow-by kit isn't going to fix it.

ok what would that serious problem be??? are you a mechanic gol 951?? b/c yes i do have oil dripping out of the AC...but from everythingi have read that is normal on sporties....it doesnt come out unless i ride

If you are getting enough blow-by to cause oil to drip from the A/C, you have a SERIOUS problem, and installing a blow-by kit isn't going to fix it.

Really?

Then why did my saturated Ness BS/AC oil blow-by problem STOP when I installed breather hoses? ;)

There have been many people on this forum who had oil dripping from their stock AC...
Some sort of breather kit really should be installed. Period.

yea im just wondering why gold said itwas serious problem i dont see how it could be a serious problem like there is something wrong with my engine

Really?

Then why did my saturated Ness BS/AC oil blow-by problem STOP when I installed breather hoses? ;)

There have been many people on this forum who had oil dripping from their stock AC...
Some sort of breather kit really should be installed. Period.


Not necessairly. Blow-by kits route the blow-by gas and the oil it carries OUTSIDE of the A/C. The "mess" just goes somewhere else.

Not necessairly. Blow-by kits route the blow-by gas and the oil it carries OUTSIDE of the A/C. The "mess" just goes somewhere else.

So what is this mysterious serious problem that isn't fixed with a breather kit?

Now I'm curious to know.

If you are getting enough blow-by to cause oil to drip from the A/C, you have a SERIOUS problem, and installing a blow-by kit isn't going to fix it.


Mine's been doing it since day one, about a teaspoon every 1000 miles or so, does that make it a serious problem when un-returned oil gets misted thru the push rod covers and past the umbrella valves? :doh it's a normal thing for the EVO and part of the crankcase breathing system. Any oil that doesen't return to the crankcase gets misted to the atmosphere either to AC or to some kinda breather system like most use here.

Mine's been doing it since day one, about a teaspoon every 1000 miles or so, does that make it a serious problem when un-returned oil gets misted thru the push rod covers and past the umbrella valves? :doh it's a normal thing for the EVO and part of the crankcase breathing system. Any oil that doesen't return to the crankcase gets misted to the atmosphere either to AC or to some kinda breather system like most use here.

This explanation by xllent01 is exactly what I have been told countless times by many forum members...

Maybe Gold951 doesn't ride far or long enough to have any mist build up in the AC? :D

i tell you i have it normal right...just a lil bit and spotting on the pipes....but i had one ride when it was bad like dripping out i was like holy shit...hass not haoppened again liek that

Not necessairly. Blow-by kits route the blow-by gas and the oil it carries OUTSIDE of the A/C. The "mess" just goes somewhere else.

I would much rather have the oil mist routed outside my motor rather than burning it. Oil mist does not belong in the intake air. !!!!! the EPA. :D

I had a problem with oil spray with my '00 - 1200 all over the right side of rear wheel, swingarm, and even some on my right signal light. I thought I had an oil leak. I researched it a little bit and found that there is a TSB on this. The crankcase vent hose behind the battery box had to be re-routed because there was a dip in it that created a trap condition like you see under the sink in your house. When crankcase pressure built up it would force oil into the hose and it would get stuck in the trap where it would sit until sufficient pressure would build to blow it out and voila...oil all over the bike! After the hose was re-routed the problem disappeared. Could this be the problem or is it definitely coming from the A/C?

Mine's been doing it since day one, about a teaspoon every 1000 miles or so, does that make it a serious problem when un-returned oil gets misted thru the push rod covers and past the umbrella valves? :doh it's a normal thing for the EVO and part of the crankcase breathing system. Any oil that doesen't return to the crankcase gets misted to the atmosphere either to AC or to some kinda breather system like most use here.

You asked the obvious question: HOW MUCH oil mist is "normal"?

From the factory manual for my '03 page 3-49: "On piston down stroke, a mixture of crankcase air and oil mist is vented up the push rod covers through an umbrella valve in each middle rocker box section. The oil mist separates from the crankcase air, collects and passes through a small drain hole where it eventually returns to the crankcase. The crankcase air is routed through a passage in each cylinder head. The crankcase air then travels through each air cleaner backing plate mounting bolt into the filtered side of the air cleaner."

From this description it is easy to infer that NO oil is supposed to be vented to the A/C, but from personal experience and from what I have read on this forum, I know that is not the case and I also know that this will never be the case.

Some, like myself, have reported little on no oil in the A/C, while others have reported that oil is literally dripping from the A/C. This in itself should be enough evidence of a potential problem to warrant further investigation as to why this is happening. One item that is conspicuous by its absence form both the factory and owner's manuals is any reference to the maximum or expected oil consumption. I have checked the factory manual and my owner manual. Neither document has any guidance or specific information about oil consumption. The factory and owner's manuals both contain warnings about having either too much or too little oil, and both documents clearly state that having too much oil can cause oil carry over into the A/C which may cause "equipment damage".

I believe that we can all agree that SOME oil carry over is to be expected, and that the amount of carry over will depend on how the bike is ridden. If you just putt around and take things easy, then you would expect the amount of carry over to be fairly small or non existant. Conversely, if you always ride like your butt is on fire, you should expect to see more carry over.

With that said, we need to examine the physics involved, and then usinig that information develope a method for determining if the amount of carry over is acceptable.

The physics are fairly straight forward. As the engine is running the crank shaft and other lower end components generate a mist of oil in the crankcase. This oil mist is then captured by or entrained in the "air" that occupies the crankcase. Piston motion forces this air/oil mist up through the push rod tubes and into the rocker boxes. At this point the air and oil mist are SUPPOSED to separate. The oil is supposed to drain back to the crankcase, and "clean" air is vented through the cylinder heads and into the A/C.

From my personal experience with and knowledge of other air/oil separators, there are basically two ways to cause oil mist to separate from air. These two methods are electrostatic precipitation and "tortured path" precipitation. It is obvious that the Sportster engine does not have an electrostatic system, so that leaves us with a tortured path system.

Here again the physics are fairly straight forward: A tortured path precipitator uses inertia to separate a heavier fluid from a lighter fluid. This is accomplished by forcing both fluids to follow a flow path that causes the fluids to make abrupt changes in direction. This "torturious path" can be constructed by either inserting baffels into the flow path, or by constructing a flow path that has a sufficient number of angles and corners.

Due to their differences in relative mass, the particles of oil have more inertia than the atoms and molecules that make up crankcase "air".

As the air/oil mixture is forced to change direction the inertia of the heavier oil particles will force the oil particles to collide with the baffels. The lighter "air" continues to flow through the separator. The efficiency of this type of separator is a function of the amount of oil entrainment in a given volume of air/oil mist, the volumetirc flow rate of the air/oil mist through the separator, and the number of times the fluid is forced to change direction.

So then, what does all of this tell us?

First of all we know that too much oil will cause carry over. Having too much oil in the crankcase will cause the amount of oil entrainment to increase which in turn will overload the separator and oil will be drawn into the A/C.

Secondly, sustained operation at high RPMs will generate more air/oil mist which can also overload the separator.

Third, adding more "air" to the crankcase by allowing combustion gasses to "blow-by" the piston compression rings will cause the amount or volume of air/oil mist in the crankcase to increase. This increase in volumetic flow rate will overload the separator and oil will be drawn into the A/C.

Determining whether or not you have a problem is also fairly simple.

First, verify the level of oil in the oil tank. This is best done when the engine is up to temperature. The "recommended" oil level is with the oil between the upper and lower marks on the dipstick as measured when the bike is sitting upright (not leaning on the jiffy stand). If the oil level is too high, remove enough oil to bring the level down between the upper and lower marks on the dip stick. If the oil level is too low, add enough oil to raise the level.

Second, perform a compression check. This will verify whether or not the compression rings are sealing properly. If the results of the compression test are not within specifications, further investigation/examination is warrented.

Third, disassemble and clean the A/C and filter. This is necessary so that you have a "clean slate" to work from.

Fourth, take the bike for a "normal" ride. Just putt around town for a few miles. Ride at the posted speed limits and refrain from doing "jack rabbit" starts from stop signs and traffic signals. At the end of this ride open the A/C and note the amount of oil present. If necessary clean the filter and A/C and then reassemble.

Fifth, take the bike for a "spirited" ride. This is an excellent excuse to hit your favorite stretch of twisty road, or to take a ride on a super slab. At the end of this ride open the A/C and note the amount of oil present. Clean as necessary and reassemble.

Sixth, keep track of how you ride and periodically open the A/C and note the amount of oil present. This step will allow you to establish your own "norms" and help you recognize any significant changes in the amount of oil loss due to "blow-by".

I hope this has been helpful.

Damn that's long winded,:banana you lost me after the "physics" part, *yawn*



The reality, however, is that this oil can sometimes build up faster than the motor can suck it in. As a result, the excess oil buildup drains to the bottom of the air cleaner assembly via gravity, and drips out onto the engine and everywhere else the wind blows it while you ride. This situation is greatly exacerbated when the bike has a less restrictive air cleaner assembly,

Although there are a few variables that contribute to this situation (how tight your piston rings seal, how hard you ride, what mods you've made, etc. etc.) the situation is usually worst when your oil tank is completely full, you have a free-breathing air cleaner assembly, and you've ridden hard for a while. An owner in this situation may find the streaks of escaped oil decorating the entire right side of his bike after only a few minutes.

But hey i guess you need to ride harder to find out what/ or if your oil blow by works or not.

<a billion-gillion-gazillion words...>

I hope this has been helpful.

I must concede that your explanation is extremely thorough, and the six maintenance-intensive steps of constantly monitoring the oil level and AC condition is very detailed.

It sounds like you either have a Doctorate in Physics or Bulls!!t. :laugh

Personally when I am on my Sporty, I don't want to keep track of how I ride, nor should I have to be overly concerned if my motorcycles tortured path precipitator has enough inertia to separate an acceptable amount of oil entrainment in a given volume of air/oil mist. http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m96/clarinetcat1/Smilies/blink.gif


Why not simply install a breather and stop the madness? :dunno

What type of serious problem could cause this? My sporty is running the SE 1200 conversion w/ 10.5:1 pistons a Mikuni smooth bore and K&N filter setup. I know bikes like mine will piss it everywhere and be free from issue. I think ya get the breather kit or get used to wiping your sporties diarrhea.

What type of serious problem could cause this?


Worn piston rings and/or scored cylinder walls.

Damn that's long winded,:banana you lost me after the "physics" part, *yawn*



The reality, however, is that this oil can sometimes build up faster than the motor can suck it in. As a result, the excess oil buildup drains to the bottom of the air cleaner assembly via gravity, and drips out onto the engine and everywhere else the wind blows it while you ride. This situation is greatly exacerbated when the bike has a less restrictive air cleaner assembly,

Although there are a few variables that contribute to this situation (how tight your piston rings seal, how hard you ride, what mods you've made, etc. etc.) the situation is usually worst when your oil tank is completely full, you have a free-breathing air cleaner assembly, and you've ridden hard for a while. An owner in this situation may find the streaks of escaped oil decorating the entire right side of his bike after only a few minutes.

But hey i guess you need to ride harder to find out what/ or if your oil blow by works or not.

Very true.

If the oil does build up faster than it can drain back into the crankcase, then either the drainage path is too restrictive (either due to a bad design or some internal blockage), or something is causing too much oil entrainment.

Worn piston rings and/or scored cylinder walls.

Don't you think if you had either one of these problems that you would blow blue smoke out the exhaust pipes from the excess oil burning off in the expansion chamber.:rolleyes: :frownthre besides the loss of compression.

The motor company in 2004 admitted there was a problem with oil blow by. They said the 04 had the problem remedied. The breather banjo bolts were changed to about 1/2 the size of previous models (the hole in the center of the bolt). Unfortunately for me this caused a problem of me blowing out the rocker cover gaskets somewhere around 6800 rpm. To remedy that problem I put the older style bolts in and eventually went to the horseshoe bypass system as I couldn't figure out how the dyno was reading the vaporized oil.

An HD motor has a variable volume crankcase. Unlike most car motors, which have a piston going down for every piston going up, the volume of the HD crankcase changes due to the 45 degree common crankpin design. It stands to reason that check valve on the crankcase vent could cause a vacuum to get pulled on the upstroke of the pistons, potentially helping ring seal.

I must concede that your explanation is extremely thorough, and the six maintenance-intensive steps of constantly monitoring the oil level and AC condition is very detailed.

It sounds like you either have a Doctorate in Physics or Bullshit. :laugh

Personally when I am on my Sporty, I don't want to keep track of how I ride, nor should I have to be overly concerned if my motorcycles tortured path precipitator has enough inertia to separate an acceptable amount of oil entrainment in a given volume of air/oil mist. http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m96/clarinetcat1/Smilies/blink.gif


Why not simply install a breather and stop the madness? :dunno

Actually I spent 21+ years turning wrenches in Uncle Sam's Canoe Club (USN). I have a background in US Naval Nuclear Power, I qualified as an Engineering Officer of the Watch on 600 and 1200 PSI conventional steam plants, I was a certified US Navy instructor for 10 years, I've been working on cars since I was 10 years old, and I do my own wrenching on my 1986 Porsche 951 Turbo, my '03 883, my GF's '77 Ironhead, '87 Yamaha Virago XV700, and her '87 Dodge Ram slant-6 pick-up.

As far as installing a breather kit goes, so far I haven't seen the need, but who knows, that could change. With regard to my legnthy post, my intent was to give other riders sufficient information and guidance that would hopefully let them determine whether or not the amount of oil blow-by they are seeing is the result of a problem with the engine or not.

To my way of thinking, it is better to know what is "normal" based on detailed testing and observation than it is to "fix" a problem that may be a symptom of a more serious issue.

With that said, I do not have any objections to anyone installing a breather kit as long as they are confident that the engine is healthy.

Actually I spent 21+ years turning wrenches in Uncle Sam's Canoe Club (USN). I have a background in US Naval Nuclear Power, I qualified as an Engineering Officer of the Watch on 600 and 1200 PSI conventional steam plants, I was a certified US Navy instructor for 10 years, I've been working on cars since I was 10 years old, and I do my own wrenching on my 1986 Porsche 951 Turbo, my '03 883, my GF's '77 Ironhead, '87 Yamaha Virago XV700, and her '87 Dodge Ram slant-6 pick-up.

As far as installing a breather kit goes, so far I haven't seen the need, but who knows, that could change. With regard to my legnthy post, my intent was to give other riders sufficient information and guidance that would hopefully let them determine whether or not the amount of oil blow-by they are seeing is the result of a problem with the engine or not.

To my way of thinking, it is better to know what is "normal" based on detailed testing and observation than it is to "fix" a problem that may be a symptom of a more serious issue.

With that said, I do not have any objections to anyone installing a breather kit as long as they are confident that the engine is healthy.

that guy is smart.

I can assure you my engine is very healthy.

sounds like alot of sphincter blow by

this looks like a fun thread ,,it sound a bit like the genIII v8 chev donks they put in commoroes down under " if you run syn oil they dont blow by ,if you run mineral oil they do " but in reality they all had the problem you were lucky if you got a good one :(

haha well im glad i started this thread it turned out to be a very good laught...thanks guys and gals.......well im going to assume my engiine is healthy nrhs would prob tell me if soemthing was wrong with my stuff when they got it.....so maybe i need to put a better intake on there and some kind of breather kit....i currently have a kuryakyn v-veloivty but i think it sucks.....and i dont like the idea of running a tube to the ground where my tire is ya kno....any other ideas???

i dont like the idea of running a tube to the ground where my tire is ya kno....any other ideas???

Yeah. Install a breather kit and run it to a small "catch can."

To get an idea of how a catch can is constructed, take a look at a brake bleeder catch bottle.

The only real downside is you have to empty the catch can from time to time.

These breathers work pretty well. They make them for all models. I never have any blow-by.


http://xlforum.net/photopost/data/500/medium/Spyke_crank_vent.jpg

hey bikenut thts a crankcase vent /breather isnt it ?????

Yeah. Install a breather kit and run it to a small "catch can."

To get an idea of how a catch can is constructed, take a look at a brake bleeder catch bottle.

The only real downside is you have to empty the catch can from time to time.

Some bikes do it more than others, just the way it is, all we can do is fix what the MoCo tried to do to keep the EPA off there ass. That's all it is.http://forums.beyondunreal.com/images/smilies/2thumbs.gif

and xllent how would you do that or could you explain that a little bit more??

Knowledge is power .:xlrocks

Here's a little tip for those of you with the old-style Screamin' Eagle AC (flat metal backplate) with the K&N filter.

Mine would spit out every drop of oil that collected inside the AC, and once it seeps past the filter there's nothing to stop it from going onto your rear pipe, oil tank, leg, etc.

A couple of little drops can make a BIG mess.

I found that a little high-temp wheel bearing grease applied to the sealing surfaces of the K&N filter keeps the oil inside very well. Now I just have to pop it off and clean it out every couple of weeks or so (daily rider, you may not have to clean it as often).

K&N actually sells a "sealing grease" for use on their filters but I haven't seen any in any of the local auto parts stores where I buy the cleaning kits. The wheel bearing grease has worked fine so far. I have a large syringe that I packed with grease, so it's a quick and easy job to apply the grease to the filter during reassembly (it takes very little).

That said, I plan to do go to an external breather within the next few weeks. I don't like the idea of the oil cycling back through the engine. I already have the breather and hose, and the horseshoe adapter is ordered. Of course, I'll want to do it "my way" so there may be a couple of changes to the installation. I'll post details when I get it done.