I decided to do a 180 conversion on my 93 Sportster. I will start throwing some pictures up here as I work out the bugs.

I just had the swingarm (modified stock) tack welded back together this morning. I am going to start the final mock up tonight. I have the axle, wheel and tire (180/60R-16), rear pulley and spacer, front pulley, wider fender etc.

Here's a shot of the swingarm prior to welding. I had to notch the left side to clear the edge of the tire and the right side was moved out about 13/16" for the 0.900" spacer under pulley. The tire I'm using is measuring around 190mm wide so its causing me some grief.

If anyone wants any additional pictures or info, drop me a note.

Chuck

good luck Chuck!! Let us know how it turns out. Post a pic of that 190 in the swing arm.

Got the swingarm back from the powder coater this afternoon. I've been sitting here waiting for it to come back forever. I mocked everything up but did make a change to the swingarm at the last moment, I decided I better not cut the frame until I was 100% sure the wheel, brake and pulleys all lined up and worked well.

Here are a couple shots of the swingarm. You can see it side by side with a stock arm. You can see the notch in the left gusset and that the right arm got moved out a little over 3/4". Pretty subtle when you figure the new tire is 2-1/2" wider than the stock one.

The axle is for an early 80s 4-spd big twin with chain drive. It measures 3/4" longer than the stock sportster axle.

I'll finish putting the rear end back together tonight and post the pictures tomorrow.

Chuck

Everything bolted together last night with no issues at all. Guess its time to cut and spread the frame now. The first picture shows one of the original mockup shots with the new tire and the stock fender. I guess if you wanted to run struts you could leave the stock fender. My tire stuck out about an 1/8” on each side though. Since I left the swingarm position stock on the left side, the brake was no big deal. I did have a bunch of various shims in there in the past. I think the old PM kits just assumed you shimmed everything into place. I called PM and they gave me the dimensions of the spacers they use in their current kit (0.780” and 0.233”) and made a set. The wheel bolted right up and the brake center well. For the right side, I made the arm 13/16” wider than stock. The stock right side spacers are .750” & .645”. I made a new set with the total width being around 2.208” wide. I decided to use 1.650” for the inner one (to clear the pulley and pulley spacer and 0.558” for the outer. Again, I took the wheel and stuck it together with the new spacers and it lined up great. I used a 0.900” spacer under the pulley to clear the belt. I originally had a ¾” but the extra width of my tire caused the belt to rub the edge.

Up front, I ordered a 0.750” offset pulley from V-Twin. The Taiwanese do some nice machine work. I have a pre-94 bike so the spacer behind the pulley needed to be modified. Early (-93) bikes have a recess in the back side of the drive pulley. Later bikes have a pulley that is flat on the back. The offset front pulleys are flat like the late model ones. If you try to bolt it on with the stock spacer, you end up with around a 1” offset. The kits tell you to use a new spacer (late model). I just took my spacer and chucked it in the lathe and trimmed ¼” off of it. It’s hard but nothing carbide tools won’t deal with.

I decided not to trim the inside of the pulley cover so I made some spacers out of ¾” aluminum rod and offset it ¾”. Getting the ½” stud out of the case was a bear. I had to heat it with a torch to get the loctite to give. I made a new stud out of a ½” stainless carriage bolt from home Depot. The hard brake line didn’t want to stretch the extra ¾”. I ended up making a little metal bracket to move the brake light switch over where it is bolted to the frame under the battery.

I’m keeping with my Works shocks for now. They are 12.5” long. I have a pair of WB lower mounts on them. When I spread the frame for the new fender, the right side will line up correctly (+/- a little) but the left side will need a ¾” spacer under the lower bolt.

So everything looks real good now. Since it works it’s time to cut and spread the frame. I have to get a nice sharp blade for the sawzall. I have an 8.5” WCC Steeler rear fender for the back. I also went and ordered a side mount license plate holder / tail light bracket. I ordered one from V-Twin since they sold one that had a ½” hole to mount on a shock bolt. I figure I can use this as part of the spacer I need on the left shock.

Stay tuned.

Chuck

just a question, if i'm readin this right the left side of your rim will remain in the stock location while shifting the new mass to the right side only?

won't this make the rear track at an angle to the front?

No, the left side of the hub and brake rotor stay in the stock location. The left side of the rim is 1" farther toward the left. Look at your bike. See the gap between the left side of the tire and the swingarm? There is enough room to grow the tire and rim wider. Can't do it on the right side since the tire will hit the pulley. If you move the pulley out then it will hit the swingarm so you need to move the right side of the swingarm out. In some instances, the new tire and rim clear the left side. In my case, it only cleared after I notched out some of the gusseting. Since the hub is in the stock location, the wheel stays centered. When I had Buchana's lace the wheel, I had them center the new rim with respect to the hub same as a stock sportster.

Chuck

Started spreading the frame. I was trying to do it w/o heat. You can do it, but you can't make it even enough. The sides start to twist and the left and right won't move evenly. I got close but now I need to come back with a torch and start doing some adjustments.

Chuck

Keep us posted Chuck! You are doing fine work my brotha! :smoke

Thanks for the input. For awhile there, it seemed like i'd get more interest if I was installing some slip ons or a hypercharger...

I'm taking the day off tomorrow to go work on the frame. The guy who welded my swingarm has volunteered his torch and his shop to help me out. So far so good. Frustrating part is the frame. The rest has been relatively simple machine and fabrication work. I didn't show the side views since the frame needs more bending to allow me to better position the fender.

Chuck

Slip ons and hyperchargers!!! :laugh :laugh :laugh

You crack me up! Keep us posted when you get a chance. :cheers

keep the updates coming. I've been silently following along.... don't like to comment much because I am jealous. I want a bigger rear tire too :cry1

I'm watching, too. Not much to say except I'm jelous.

It's the touchy feely part of the conversion now. Spent 2-3 hours yesterday heating bending in, bending out... staring at it. The basic tools for this job are a pipe clamp, scissor jack and a torch. Ended up getting both sides of the frame rails relatively straight and offset the same on each side. We ran a string from the center of the backbone to the center of the tire and measured off of this. As a quick check, I used a piece of 1/2" tube and held it against the side of the tire. When I had a 1/8" or so gap between the tube and the frame rail, it was about right. In the end, it's pretty close. I think the ends may be bent out about 1/8" on either side. I should be able to tweak this with a clamp and a couple whacks of the hammer.

Fitting the fender is a pain. Allot of eyeballing etc. I need to trim the front edge of the fender a bit. I figure I'll wait till I'm fresh to do this. It also looks like the seat pan will need some trimming. I have a Badlander seat. I'm going to have to cut the edges of the pan off where it wraps (or used to wrap over the rails). There is a good upholstery place near me. They actually did an RD 400 seat for me 25 years ago. Hmmm... Probably different guys by now. Either way, they are next door to Red Racing (local chopper place) so that's a good sign.

Here's a picture of the frame back together and welded. We decided to weld the original cross brace back in to give us more fender attachment options.

Chuck

It's looking good Chuck!

Looks damn good! Thanks for the update.

Holy Crap, Chuck. I had a brand new 1979 RD 400E back in the day!!! Great little bike.

Went ahead and mounted the rear fender today. I spent a few days staring at it before I had the nerve to drill the holes. Overall went well. While I was at it, I dropped on my new stretch tank and my 6" riser T-bars. and mirrors Also put on a velocity stack to see how it would look. I was supposed to get my gauge mount and some other things in but they got shipped ground by mistake. I need to redo a bunch of wiring once that stuff shows.

I need to congratualte one of those biker shows. I threaded a string through the bars to pull the wires through. Somewhere, they showed blowing it through with compressed air. I plugged on side and the air nozzle sqirted the string right though. Cool...

I need to trim the seat pan a bit then I will drill the mounting hole for the seat and tack a nut to the backside. Then I can start getting stuff out to paint. The new bars and tank totally changed the look and feel of the bike.

Chuck

It looks awesome Chuck!

I am about to do a 200 fat tire kit from Big Boar Products, any tips you can put out there would help, also where did you get the tank, that fits perfect?
Bike is Awesome

Chuck, I think we work a lot alike. I start my project during riding season and lose a month of riding while tweeking the final pieces. I just finished today. No more leaks or problems. I hope it all comes together fast and right. You chose a great project. I wish I had thought of it before my most recent paint job. I sure would love the look. I am just gonna squeeze a 150 back in there in a month when my Metz is finally dead. I can't wait to see the final product. Hope you are gonna go with something wild and special. Paint is my favorite part. Have fun and keep on sharing.

I think most don't comment because it is beyond there abilities or there perceived abilities. Until you finally tear it apart you don't know what you can do. Until that time it is slipons and Hyperchargers. Can't forget the chrome.

Chuck the bike looks great, me likey...sounds like it's goin good for ya....I'm gathering ideas now for my 74 I'm planning to do a skinny tire bobber job with rigid frame...but yet I've seen a couple cool wide tire swingarm kits for an Ironhead....I'm really leaning "bobber", and box up all take-offs for the future....not to frieght train your thread, but I like what ya done so far, please keep us posted....lol maybe by the time I do my project, I'll be better on this 'puter, and be able to post in process pix

Sometimes I think it's beyond my abilites. I just go slow and do one piece at a time. By far the most difficult part was widening the frame and mounting the fender. If you start getting anal like me and assuming everything has to be dead nuts to 3 decimel places, you will drive yourself nuts. I woudln't try doing the frame w/o access to a torch. The left and right side have different kinks and bends in them so they don't want to spread evenly. They'll also try to bend in the wrong place, kink etc. I'd reccomend tackling this when you are in a good mood. We ended up spreading the frame around 2" instead of 1.5". Mainly becuase the lower frame rails didn't want to bend out as much as the top. This caused fit issues with the fender. In the end, I fabricated a set of 1/4" spacers to go between the fender and the fender struts to fill the gap. I'm sure I'll be the only one that notices. I bought a 8.5" fender but kinda wish i had a 9". My tire measures about 7-1/2" wide (190mm) when mounted and its tight. I need to make sure the fender bolts don't portrude in at all. I'll probably install them then cut the excess off. I bought some thin nylon locknuts to help. If I was doing a 200 tire, I definetley use a 9" fender.

The tank is from Cycle Spply. It should be slid back another 1/2" or so. The wiring was in the wy so I didn't bother. The big white thing under the left side of the tank is a giant terminal strip for all the wiring. I ought a smaller one at the maring supply store the other day. I'm doing a ton of little things at once so it keeps my busy. i ordered a license plate mount and new chromed struts (mine were pitted) and a front fender. Iam about to send everything to paint now. just have to bpick a color. Something plain and simple with no graphics. Right now, I'm thinking a dark purple or black.

Chuck

damn that is awsome.. i wish i had the skill, ability, and knowledge (read: tools) to a job like that myself.. that bike does look sweet! :clap :laugh :tour

Thanks for the complement. The bike is coming along although slowly. I just had a third kid a couple weeks ago so time is a premium. I used to work on it when they went to sleep (first 2). The newborn would rather stay awake at nights I'm a bit messed up. There are so many annoying details to do. For example, when you widen the frame, the oil tank moves out and angles out to follow the frame. Cool, it lines up nice. Problem is, the battery tray bolts to the oil tank and it's on the opposite side of the bike. So now it angles in (assuming any of the bolts actually lined up (one is on the frame and 2 are on the oil tank). Now I need to figure out how to tweak, space the battery tray so it's parallel to the bike again. I also need to drill the hole for the seat bolt. I just trimmed the pan of my Badlander and got the cover put back on. Now I need to bring the fender back to my buddy to have a couple nuts welded to the backside. My taillight comes in next week so I need to drill the holes for that and the circuit breaker clips and then off to get the sheet metal painted. Meanwhile, I need to continue to re-wire everything. I also had to make a new mounting block for my headlight (the old one was too short) and I bought a new horn off eBay.

As far as tools go, I don't have enough. Luckily at work, I have access to a machine shop with a Bridgeport, Lathe, bandsaw..etc.

Chuck

chuck, just an idea you may already have a better one: about your battery tray why not machine a spacer and just use longer bolts to accomidate the new "wedge" between your battery/oiltank? the spacers should allow it to hold up to vibrations and road bumps. good luck and can't wait for new pics.

Thats what I'm doing. I already did a spacer and longer bolt for the back mount. Now I need to extend the rubber mount on the bottom. Its just the little things. The kits come with a spacer swingarm and a pully. It's the little details that take forever. Perhaps it would be easier if I wasn't so anal. I could just grab and old bolt and some washers. Instead Ihunt down new hardware or SS stuff and machine spacers on the lathe. I guess I turn the 5 minute jobs into all day affairs.

Chuck

Anal is good Chuck. The details are the difference between a good job and a great job.

looking good!!! Can't wait to see it all painted.

Congrats Chuck! I am about to be on my third kid too! Won't be borne until October so I still have some free time!!! Clock is ticking though! :helpsign :laugh

Looking good! I've been looking at a 200 kit it's 2295.00 with everything fender, tail light, blinkers, avon tire,rim,pully,ect. I was wondering doing the fab and welding yourself what you think the total is gonna be? Anyway good luck finishing up the frame. Post some pics when your done. :tour

Most of the parts are pretty cheap. You can get the swingarm and axle from BigBoar by themselves. They quoted me $400. WCC fenders are only $99 right now. The front pulley is $175. Wheels start around $169. It really depends how handy you are. If you have access to a lathe, you can make the axle spacers, side cover spacers, battery tray spacers etc... The most time consuming parts are widening the frame and doing the bodywork on the new fender. My bike is basically done except for putting the bodywork back on and wiring the rear turn signals and tail light. Hopefully the paint will be done in another week. I'm having my stretch tank, front and rear fenders done. The guy doing the paint work isn't happy. He's been fighting with the tank and rear fender to get the contours and radii smooth and even. He is basicaly telling me he under quoted. I guess he's even less thrilled after I handed him a three stage paint.

I've been doing little jobs as cheap parts show up on ebay. I have to rebuild my PM calipers since they are dragging and I have braided throttle cables and a rear brake line coming in this week. I just hope it looks good when its done. My biggest concern is the fit of the rear fender. The radii of the fender wasn't what i wanted. I made due the best I could. It probably would look better with a 2" stretch in the swingarm. The bike has been down for almost 3 months now. Right now it looks like I'll get it done just in time to put it in storage when I move to Japan. Maybe I shouldn't order the raked trees.....

Chuck

Just curious, are you at all worried about the frame having different stress points now that it is widended, like cracking or anything like that?

No, not really. There are guys out there widening the frame to fit 240 tires. I bent it out an inch on each side. it really wasn't very far. It's been done hundreds of times before. I'm more concerned with my cut and paste swingarm. Should be fine though. The bike is making 91ft-lbs of torque so I'll see if I can crack it. I think it will hold just fine. The frame is mild steel and we heated it to bend it. It probably has a better chance of bending from being anneeled than from stress cracking. If I can ever get the bodywaork back, I'll be able to ride itand find out. At this time its more likely to rust apart at the rate I'm progressing.

Chuck

Chuck

Well, it seems like it has been sitting like this for months. I'm actually running out of things to do, time and interest. I'm leaving for a 2 year stint in Japan in 2 weeks. At this rate I'll finish the bike in time to drain the gas and store it. I just met with the painter yesterday. He wanted me to approve the job before he finished the wet sanding nd buffing. Color came out pretty good. A Yamaha scooter color called Deep Purple Blue Metallic. I should have the tank and fenders back in a day or 2. All that's left is putting them on and wiring the rear signals and tail light. The next picture will be the finished bike. Hopefully it will look good. After you stare at the same thing for too long all you see are the problems or the things you'd do differently next time. The only open thing are the ugly stock signals. For now I may just slap on a flat lens kit to at least make them look a little smaller.

Chuck

Kinda funny. I was looking at my 180 (which measures 190) and was thinking a little fatter might look cool. Then I looked over at the stock wheel and has a reality check. Anything bigger than stock is better. My mountain bike has wider tires than a stock Harley. I know there are some relatively complete 180/200 kits out there. I think when you venture into 240/250 land you are on your own. Short of a swingarm, axle and pulley, there doesn't seem to be much out there. With my 180 job, there is an awful lot of fabrication and tweaking necessary to get things right. Even with the full kits, you still are doing alot of cutting and bending etc. On my conversion, I just machined 4 spacers and made a new stud to kick my stock cover out 3/4" to clear the pulley. Even with this, I ended up changing rear brake lines and modifying the brake rod from my forward controls to fit. The 250 requires a heck of an offset. I've never seen an aftermarket cover to clear the 3/4" offset sprocket let alone a 2"? offset front pulley. You'll be cutting a big whole in the cover, leaving the cover off or finding an output shaft support kit. With the 3/4" offst, you really don't notice it that much, believe it or not. With the 250 front pulley, your machine and fabrication skills are out in the open for the world to see. Good luck with your conversion. Its alot of fun if you like tinkering and gives the bike an awesome look.

Chuck

Chuck,
Where are you going in Japan?

John

Tokyo. Just finished the bike last night. Other than getting the brake and turn signal lights backwards, it went together w/o a hitch. Rode it this morning for the first time in months. So far its perfect. handles great and rides nice. I switched to a velocity stack and it runs like a dream. All I can figure is that the screen in at has the same restriction as my old SE aircleaner. I'm getting a picture now.

Chuck

Done!

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b57/chuckactor/back-pb.jpg

Looks great, I would ship it over and ride it in Japan myself. There is no way mine would go into storage for two years. Ocean great is cheap. Might want to consider. I sent a 20 foot container to the states for a grand from Germany. Should be dooooable and then you get to enjoy it.

I have a 40' container going over. The shipping company already quoted me a grand to crate it and put it in the container. Problem is, nobody can seem to tell me what happens when it gets there. I know there is a 5% tax. But what about their version of DOT? What if there is some inspection that it won't pass since its not stock? Also there is a tiered motorcycle licensing scheme in Japan. I think its a major pain to get a license for a big bike. My fear is I'll get the bike there and it will end up sitting in a customs warehouse for 2 years until ship it back. it's a bummer. The movers come in less than 2 weeks. I may ship it back to my folks in Colorado. Maybe I can schedule a business trip back to the states around the time of Sturgis?

If anyone knows who I can contact here or in Japan that can tell me the rules exactly, I would really appreciate it.

Chuck

You can send it to me and I will keep it safe. I will even ride it for you. Why are you going to Japan anyway. Working for the Military or some other top secret gig?

Firedawgstew should be able to answer your questions. He is in Japan for some years now. If ya can't ping him in here, post on his forum at harleydavidsonbikers.com

Excellent job!!!!!!!!! :smoke

Done!

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b57/chuckactor/back-pb.jpg
Damn Chuck that is beautiful. I'd love a fat rear tire but it sure seems like a hell of a lot of work to get 'er done. I know the Metzler 160 fits a stock 1200R like mine and that's just the cost of a new tire. If I were gonna do what you did I guess I'd want one of those 240's I saw over at www.chopperweb.net I think it was. All or none for this dude. (Most likely none for now ;) )Great job BTW!!! :clap :D :tour

I know where you are coming from. If you really look at the total cost, you are probably looking at over $30/mm for the 180 conversion. Going wider (240) probably wouldn't have added much more to the cost. There would have been more fabrication work on the pulley cover. I would have had to buy a swinagrm and axle. I would be afraid to widen a stock swingarm like I did to fit a 240. Also most 240 kits run a longer swingarm so you would need to add in a belt.

The 240 kit is awsome, except I went rigid so I could set fender almost on top of that Metzler. I would love to show it off but someday I will figure this posting of pics. If interested in pics email me @ pattywagon0463@yahoo.com

Did you notice this thread is going on 3 years old?

http://www.clanbum.com/v6/e107_files/public/22_old_thread.jpg