Anyone here running the N4 cams in there Sporty?

I am seriously thinking of doing a cam swap on my 04 1200. I want to do the wrenching myself. The Andrews N4 cams have just a little more duration, but less lift than the 04-05 specific SE cams that Harley sells as 'drop-in' replacements. Of all the Andrews cams available, the N4s appear to have the closests specs to the 04-05 SE cams. However, if you look at the specs below, you will see that the cam timing is quite a bit different between these two cams. (The N2s are just too close to the stock grind to make them an option for me)

I am still not sure whether I would be better off with the SE cams or the N4s.

I would like to leave the heads alone at this time, but I am wondering if it would not be better to pull them and have about .040 milled in order to increase the CR to help with the static compression that will be lost from a bigger set of cams. (stock CR is 9.7-1)
___________________________________________

Grind: Stock 2000-later XL 1200 ("W" Grind)

Timing @ .053” Lift Open / Close:
INT. 08 / 26
EXT. 36 / 14

Duration @ .053” Lift:
234 /230

Max Lift:
.470” / .470”

TDC Lift:
.122” / .138”
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Grind: Andrews N4

P/N: 298150

Timing @ .053” Lift Open / Close:
INT. 30 / 46
EXT. 52 / 24

Duration @ .053” Lift:
256 / 256

Max Lift:
.490” / .490”

TDC Lift:
.216” / .189”
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Grind: 04-05 specific XL 1200 'SE'

P/N: 25197-04

Timing @ .053” Lift Open / Close:
INT. 25 / 44
EXT. 59 / 10

Duration @ .053” Lift:
249 / 249

Max Lift:
.551” / .551”

.TDC Lift:
197” / .122”
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Just looking for a set of cams that will not give up too much low rev torque, but will pull good and not run out of breath until about 6,300 rpm. The stock cams pretty much peak at about 5,700 revs.

Ron,

the SE will have more torque.

Earlier closing inlet and more lift = more torque

All things being equal for the same duration if you increase the lift you will increase the torque.
If you keep the same lift and increase the duration it be better a higher speed

have you got some stock numbers to compare to ????? for inlet close?? as that will determine mostly how much extra compression you can handle



Just noticed the SE's have less TDC lift too 'specially on the exhaust, so ya should have less clearance issues.

Inlets rarely catch the piston BUT exhausts often do :wonderlan

Although the critical exhaust valve piston point is actually BELOW TDC it apears at first glance it may be better on the SE's

Stevo ...

I just posted the stock cam specs in my post above. This is from Andrew's web site. I still have a feeling that the 04-05 cams may be different from the stock 03 and earlier cams, but I don't have anything to back that up.

Thanks for any info you can help me out with ... :)

Well, I just mic'ed my factory 04 1200 cams. Max lobe lift is .288. Multiply that by the rocker ratio of 1.62 = .466 Now this is not scientific so a plus or minus of .001 or .002 is a gimmy. So the Andrews claim of .470 seemd accurate.

the stock '04 cams are the same as the S model from '98-'03, the "W" cam... the duration is 223/240... big split on the exhaust side... i think the SE cams 249/249 are a bit on the big side for a non-race bike (the buells use them and they peak at the 7000 redline, would probably peak closer to 7500 if not limited)... i would think something like a 236/236 to a 236/240 would make good topend to 6500, yet keep the torque down low...

the stock '04 cams are the same as the S model from '98-'03, the "W" cam ... the duration is 223/240 ... big split on the exhaust side ... I would think something like a 236/236 to a 236/240 would make good topend to 6500, yet keep the torque down low...

Well, that's just about the numbers on the N2: (240/244)

The think I don't like about the N2 is that it has less lift than the stocker: Stock: (.476"/.476") vs N2: (.465"/.440")

But ..... The N4 is a 256/256 duration set of cams!

I just don't know what will work the best for me :headbang

I am happy with the SE cams on mine as they offer the right amount of power/tourque that I was looking for.

I see that Barry has the Andrews fitted and they offer an advantage. The thig is with the SE ones is if there is a problem the dealer should be able to help, wheras once you start using non OE parts they may be reluctant.

I read somewhere that Andrews used to make the cams for SE, don't know if they still do or did. At least with the SE cams they are true bolt-in and you don't need any head work.

Aaron Wilson (aka Nr. Nallin) once posted that the N4 and the cams in the Buell M2 were one and the same (he got this from some source in WI).

Lightning specs (from the P&A catalog):
lift .497/.497 .053 duration: 256/256 timing int: 28/48 ex: 52/24
note: part number in P&A book: 25648-91
replacement set of cams in the S1's parts book: 25648-91

He mentioned that the difference between the Adrews and HD's numbers was due to different rocker ratio assumtions.

here is the link to his reply on sportster.org Cam link (http://www.sportster.org/cgi-bin/lwgate.cgi/XL-LIST/archives%5Cvolume2002/14/date/article-13.html)

Turbota, I'm not sure where your bike is in this, but it is my understanding that after you increase the air flow into and out of the engine with the AC and exhaust changes, the next step is to flow the heads. In Jack Sparrows word,"What say you?" Tim

Dude, this thread is over 2-1/2 years old.

I just installed a set of N4's on my 06 1200 about 2 weeks ago. Definatly a help. Lower rpm doesn't seem to change, still has pull. In the middle to upper rpm she just flies. I was explained that the N2s will give you low end notice and the N4s are more for winding the bike out.
I have no dyno numbers to show my gains though. I'm real happy with them. Pulls hard all the way to the rev limiter.

oops....sorry.

It's still a very relevant thread. Raising your rev limit will allow you higher peak horse power when using the N4 or SE cams. The first dyno run with my stock cams shows a motor that stops developing any real power around 5800- 6000 rpm. After the SE cam install it was still producing some nice power until it hit the limiter. The limiter was raised to 6500 rpm via Twin-Tech ignition. The bike pulls hard from 2500 rpm straight up to 6500 rpm now. Couldn't be happier.