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black_n_orange_08
6th August 2009, 03:50
The left (lower) front exhaust stud broke off in the head on my 08 1200C while riding earlier (apparently after the other pipe mount bolt rattled out). It is actually recessed in the head a little, but luckily broke off smooth enough that I was able to get a clean center punch on it. Plans are to drill and easy out it tomorrow.

It is very close to inline with the wishbone on the front of the frame. Has anyone here ever done this without removing the head from the bike? If so, any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

Evan

Jimbos883
6th August 2009, 04:01
You may as well take the head off now and avoid the additional pain a suffering that you will go thru.

There hasn't been one report of anyone having success trying to drill and eazy out a broken exhaust stud on the bike. All the guys wind up having to take it to a machine shop to have it removed to "save" the head.

You can try but don't say you weren't warned. Good luck and I hope it goes well for you.

crospo
6th August 2009, 04:06
I personally would'nt use an easy out.Chances are it'll break off and then the fun really begins.Ever try to drill a broken easy out?

Gone
6th August 2009, 04:33
Buy a cobalt left hand drill and a square screw extractor. Also if any of the threads are visible, you can drill out a set screw with the matching threads, and use it as a guide. If you can get the head nice and hot, you might get lucky. I don't like easy outs for the smaller things, because they expand the part your trying to get out, and break. The square extractors either bite, or they don't. Alot of times you'll get lucky with the left hand bit, and it will do the extracting for you, but on an exhaust stud that would be real lucky.

Lenster
6th August 2009, 05:05
NRHS has a sticky on this subject HERE (http://xlforum.net/vbportal/forums/showthread.php?t=27015)..............

Don't try the easy out...........

JoeFriday77
6th August 2009, 05:17
I haven't messed with a broken stud on one of these, but I have on other bikes as well as read about others horror stories. Agree with the others. Take it to a machine shop and let them do it. It will prevent your next post from being... "well, I just messed up the head, and...."

If you had something sticking out, you could try a few tricks. You are pretty much stuck if it is broken off flush with the head.

Weezel
6th August 2009, 05:28
Well I will be your little ray of sunshine, I have had some problems with my pipes,exhaust nuts and studs, I wont get into it... long story. Anyway, I have broken 3... yes three studs, all on the rear cylinder. each one was removed by me, on the bike with an easy out. I did break an easy out on one of them but i was able to remove the broken piece with needle nose vise grips. It was very nerve racking trying to remove them and the rear cylinder is very accessable compared to the front. I would strongly recomend paying someone that has the right tools and experience to do it right. I was thinking in my head the whole time that this could go very wrong instantly. I guess luck was on my side.... maybe i should ave bought a lotto ticket!!

good luck

W
:caflag:

Cherrylady2
6th August 2009, 05:29
my horror story (with a happy ending)........$700.00 labor....<sigh> My dealership covered it under the extended warranty since they were the ones that mucked up!!

rocketmangb
6th August 2009, 05:38
If you know a good welder
they can place a nut up against the broken stud and run a bead inside the nut to the stu wont hurt the cyl head and the stud should back right out with a socket

KillerWrench
6th August 2009, 07:31
If you can't absolutely align the drill with the center of the stud, take the head off. On a BT there is no way to remove the bottom (or is it the top) stud in the bike. Jims makes a jig so you can try it yourself. Probly all the stealer would use anyway...
I had a stud break just inside the head and wouldn't come out. At all. Had to have it EDM'ed out.
Good luck
P.S. Take the head off

Bob F
6th August 2009, 12:35
take it to a machine shop to have it removed to "save" the head.

+1 Why take a chance of more damage so save a few hours of labor?

black_n_orange_08
6th August 2009, 13:11
Gonna try and go the Jim's route. Does anybody know how deep that stud is so I know when to stop drilling?

Hecklerboy
6th August 2009, 14:18
Would this be covered under warranty?

Lenster
6th August 2009, 15:03
Gonna try and go the Jim's route. Does anybody know how deep that stud is so I know when to stop drilling?

Buy a new stud and measure it. Substract whatever is sticking out of the head of a good stud, and add the thickness of the bushing in the Jims tool. Mark your drill bit with a piece of tape and that is how far you have to drill. You'll also need the appropriate size/thread tap to remove the excess stud that did not get drilled out.

After I drilled mine with the Jims tool, I used the tap until there was a "thread" loosened. I then grabbed the "thread" with some needle nose vise grips and pulled the threads out, spinning the vice grips as more came out. What you get out of the drilled hole is a spiral of metal which is actually the treads of the stud which did not get drilled.

Remember to go slow and take your time.

Good Luck.

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/2372/dsc0032ab1.jpg

black_n_orange_08
7th August 2009, 04:40
Would this be covered under warranty?

I'd guess not when your homemade drag pipes lose the nut from the rear mount, then hang off the studs till one breaks.

I've found that while the warranty sounds like a selling point, it's really just a bunch of bull. Every time something fails, they just say it's been abused. I'll never buy a new bike again.

black_n_orange_08
7th August 2009, 04:43
Got it drilled about a half inch deep, but wanted to wait and see how deep it should be before going any farther. Used another flange and a square as a guide, and a 12" long drill bit, per the instructions of my greybeard indy mentor...

KillerWrench
7th August 2009, 06:22
Got it drilled about a half inch deep, but wanted to wait and see how deep it should be before going any farther. Used another flange and a square as a guide, and a 12" long drill bit, per the instructions of my greybeard indy mentor...

The guy a couple replies back made a good point about getting a new stud and taking your measurements.

ParrotHead
7th August 2009, 06:55
I had a stud break off last year on my trip to Key West. HD did not cover under warranty since it had just come out of the 5K service the week before the trip and HD felt that checking critical fasteners should have been done. The dealer ended up covering the cost.

black_n_orange_08
7th August 2009, 14:52
.

God forbid somebody try and hand build something for their bike. I'm guessing you had a handfull of engineers and a R&D crew design the "ReddTiger Mount".

Hot Rod Sporty
7th August 2009, 15:06
God forbid somebody try and hand build something for their bike. I'm guessing you had a handfull of engineers and a R&D crew design the "ReddTiger Mount".



Simmer down there, man. Redd is a HD Service Advisor, so that's the point of view that his comments are coming from. He's just tryin' to help.

With that said, I think you're already beyond warranty help at this point.

FastHoss
7th August 2009, 16:02
Weld a nut onto the broken stud,let it cool,take it off

Kirk the Jerk
7th August 2009, 16:22
Were your home-made pipes supported at all at the other end?

black_n_orange_08
8th August 2009, 05:56
... you CAN drill, remove, and chase the exhaust studs with the heads on the motor, in the bike. 12" bit, an extra flange and a torque cone as a guide, a 5/16-18 GR 8 allen screw, and 30 minutes.

After my head job when I tear the bike down this winter, I will have all allen head screws in place of studs.

Were your home-made pipes supported at all at the other end?

Yeah. I had a bolt rattle out I guess. How long it went unsupported before breaking, I don't know.

I have over 10K miles on them. No biggie. If you ride one more than you can maintain it, stuff's gonna happen.

Weld a nut onto the broken stud,let it cool,take it offThat is what I wanted to try, but it broke just below teh surface of the head.

Gone
10th August 2009, 04:26
So were you successful?

Dread58
16th October 2009, 23:49
The saga of the broken studs.. I've had 2 break off of the rear head. The top one both times. The dealership fixed it under warranty the first time. It just happened again. I decided, based on the info I found here, to try it myself the second time. Save some money. Got all the parts from the dealer, new studs, nuts, gasket, the drill bushing tool from Georges Garage (the same as Jim's but cheaper) and went to work. Got the stud drilled out, everything was looking good. Tapped the hole out, 5/16-18 and all good. Tried to put the new stud in, checking for fit, decided to run the tap through it again for good measure. Wrong. The tap broke off quite deep. Damn. So, I tried to knock as much out with punches and stuff I could. I ended up just bunging up the hole. Did some research about removing broken taps. Well, I found the miracle cure. It's an acid that is specifically made for this application. TAP-X. It cost me $60, covered the product and shipping and handling. You get a kit, degreaser, acid and neutralizer. Laid the bike over on it's side, (i made a nice bed for it with foam and moving blankets) and started the process. It took about 3 days to work, with me assisting when needed (changing the fluid as often as needed) but the TAP IS GONE! After cleanup, I ran a bolt into it and I don't even need to run a tap though it. NO damage what so ever to the aluminum, threads, etc. Not even to the paint on the cylinder. New stud in, all is well.

TAP-X is the bomb. If I have to do this again, I'll drill it out, not run a tap through it, just add the TAP-X and let it eat/clean the old steel threads out, in stead of taking the chance of breaking another tap. Again, it only eats the steel, not the aluminum. Leaving the threads in mint condition.

flashedwards
17th October 2009, 00:28
A few years ago a bolt holding the alternator broke off and left the alternator flopping in the breeze. Unfortunetly this happened on an International Harvestor diesel engine. I really didn't want to go through the hassle and expense of having it towed and I had tried all of the standard "shade tree" remedies. A guy at the local speed shop gave me the phone number of a mobile tap and bolt removal service. I called, he came out and in about 30 minutes he was done. This was maybe 3 years ago and I think he charged under $150.00 which really wasn't bad considering that I would have had to pay towing to a machine shop plus whatever the machine shop charges would have been. I'm not saying that this is the answer to your problem but it's just an idea.
Good luck,
Flash

black_n_orange_08
17th October 2009, 00:33
So were you successful?

I got a foot long 1/4" bit and drilled it out, tapped it, and used a GRADE 8 ALLEN CAP SCREW instead of a stud. I will be using this method to replace all of them as they go.

Lenster
17th October 2009, 01:24
..... used a GRADE 8 ALLEN CAP SCREW instead of a stud. I will be using this method to replace all of them as they go.

I've never heard of someone doing this. Do you have any experience with it and Is it OK? Every engine I've seen (granted not that many) have always used exhaust manifold studs.

Link Hogthrob
17th October 2009, 01:49
With the potential for a broken stud being a pita to deal with, should just going ahead and replacing all the studs be some wise preventative maintenance?

Curious about black-n-orange's Grade 8 upfit, too.

sportytrace
17th October 2009, 23:51
I got a foot long 1/4" bit and drilled it out, tapped it, and used a GRADE 8 ALLEN CAP SCREW instead of a stud. I will be using this method to replace all of them as they go.

Good on you! :clap Be interesting to hear how it goes :)

black_n_orange_08
18th October 2009, 04:04
*My small block Chevy uses bolts instead of studs. I know it's different, but can it be that much different?
*From what I've seen, the studs won't come out without drilling, so I'll address them as they address me.

My latest solution to broken studs... Roadside Fix with Roadside Junk:
http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo308/evanyopp/007-1.jpg
http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo308/evanyopp/011.jpg
http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo308/evanyopp/012.jpg

rfranz1952
18th October 2009, 16:47
I've never heard of someone doing this. Do you have any experience with it and Is it OK? Every engine I've seen (granted not that many) have always used exhaust manifold studs.

And the reason is that heads (recent, anyway) are cast out of aluminum. When you use a stud, you set the stud in the aluminum one time, and the rest of the time, when and if you need to pull the exhaust, you are messing with a steel nut on steel threads. The steel to aluminum interface in the head is never (hopefully) twisted again. Further more, when the stud is screwed into the head, it is set to the proper depth, but is not typically torqued down. The tightening comes through the nut being tightened on the stud, and that process does not twist the steel in the aluminum, plus the stud is set full depth, so it is very unlikely that the stud will be stripped out.

If one is using an allen head, then each time the exhaust is pulled and replaced, there is a steel bolt being tightened in aluminum threads.

Aluminum is very soft compared to steel, and the the potential for stripping the threads out of the head is high. Then, you have a problem.
.:doh In all liklihood, the head will need to be re-drilled, heliocoiled, and re-threaded to get the same size stud into place. That also has to be done at precisely the correct angle, otherwise the studs will not be parallel, and the pipe clamps won't fit. Probably best that this be done by a machine shop. The head will have to be pulled.

A second related issue is that steel and aluminum expand at differential rates in response to heat. The heads get very hot. If you have ever tried to remove a broken stud from the head, it can be very difficult to impossible--almost like the aluminum and steel have bonded. If you are working with a broken stud, it is sometimes possible to carefully drill it out and re-thread the head to the same size stud (when the ezouts don't work). Ask me how I know!!@:frownthre

If you are working with an allen head steel screw, it may be possible to just twist the threads right out of the head, whilst unscrewing the bolt. Time for the heliocoil again!

So, IMHO, replacing the studs with allen head screws, while creative, is not a particularly good idea.