Repair Manual - Any Suggestions??

[Toolgirl]

I just bought a new '08 XL 1200 C (yes, I did say new! She only had 11 miles on her when I test rode her) and although she is covered under warranty, I want to be able to do minor repairs and tweaks myself. Can anyone recommend a GOOD repair manual? I know that Haynes, Chilton, and Clymer (to name a few) all make a manual for this bike, but I'd like to get your opinion on which one you think is the best.

[el jinete fantasma]

The Harley manual.

[bigjnsa]

Factory service manual is pretty good and detailed. I don't have their repair manual so I can't comment about that.

[Bone]

I know that Haynes, Chilton, and Clymer (to name a few) all make a manual for this bike, but I'd like to get your opinion on which one you think is the best.

Actually Chilton hasn't made a motorcycle specific manual for more than 2 decades.

Haynes and Clymer may have something available, but it's not worth the small $$ savings when the Harley OEM manuals are so well done.

[Toolgirl]

Does the HD manual provide the part numbers?

[el jinete fantasma]

Does the HD manual provide the part numbers?
No, that's a separate manual.

[bigjnsa]

My only beef with the HD service manual is they don't tell you what size nut or bolt you're trying to loosen/tighten.

[Toolgirl]

Great, thanks for your help. It sounds like my best option is the HD manual. Time to check out Ebay and Amazon since I'm sure the dealer wants an arm and a leg for it. Any other recommendations on where I can pick one up fairly inexpensively?

[bigjnsa]

I just called each dealer until I found one who had one. It was $60 something and change.

[bigjnsa]

Toolgirl, while you're at it, you might consider the Fix My Hog DVD along with the service manual. For me, I look at the service manual and then "watch" them performing that particular maintenance.

[Hot Rod Sporty]

I think it's a good idea to have the corresponding parts manual, as well as the HD Factory Service Manual. Then you don't have to rely on the parts guy.

[far2paranoid]

+1 on the factory service manual (around $60-$65) and the matching parts manual (another $40). I doubted it when I bought them, but they've paid for themselves in time and frustration savings...

[Cosmo Kramer]

I think it's a good idea to have the corresponding parts manual, as well as the HD Factory Service Manual. Then you don't have to rely on the parts guy.

+1...the nice thing about the parts manual is that they have some pretty good exploded views that can help you figure out how things go back together or come apart. Also...you can help answer some of the "what is the part number for...." questions we get on here! :D

Congrats on the "new" sporty!

[tribsa1]

Tool girl,
There are 3 different Factory manuals that you can get. One for service and repair, another for electrical work, and the third being a parts manual.
At the dealership the manuals go for about $60 bucks each. But if you go onto e-bay motors, and click on the "manuals" link you will find all three there (used) for about $25.
Definetly get the service manual. The parts manual comes in 2nd for me but if you want the electrical manual be advised that there are a lot of $$$$$$$ Expensive $$$$$$$ tools that are required to work on the system.
Sam

[colonelangus]

get the HD service manual .haynes manuals are just that hayness and shouldnt be trusted.havnt found one yet that didnt have glaring mistakes.
although they were for toyotas and ford trucks i lost any confidence in their manuals.clymer sure but they are all copies of a HD manual so why not get it straight from the horses a$$ im mean mouth..lol

[Bob F]

IMO buy the Harley Service Manual and Parts Catalog. You can buy both for less than 2 hours of labor charges. The Parts Catalog gives exploded views of each sub assembly and this can be extremely helpful.

[Toolgirl]

You guys are awesome - I love this forum!! Years ago I worked in BMW automobile parts and am very familiar with reading parts manuals so needless to say I am definitely going to get a parts manual in addition to the repair manual.

bigjnsa: great advice, I will look for the Fix My Hog DVD while I'm shopping. :clap

[bigjnsa]

Here ya go!

http://www.fixmyhog.com/products/Sportster-Edition.html

[far2paranoid]

Oh yeah, the Fix My Hog dvd's are actually pretty damn good.

if you want the electrical manual be advised that there are a lot of $$$$$$$ Expensive $$$$$$$ tools that are required to work on the system.

The electrical is only expensive if you don't have any tools, or if you buy every tool they tell you to. I did a wire tuck, turn signal relocations and a lot of plug rewiring without buying any special tools... just used a pair of wire cutters, pliers, a soldering iron and a pin (for disassembling the connectors without damaging them). The service manual even explains how to do all of that without needing other tools.

[Cosmo Kramer]

The electrical is only expensive if you don't have any tools, or if you buy every tool they tell you to.

Gotta agree here with far2paranoid. I have the electric diagnostic manual (EDM) and a multimeter (even have a cheap $15 one) and I can get quite far with those two. If I make myself a "break-out" box to plug inbetween the main engine harness and the ECM then the book would be invaluable.

Although the purpose of me purchasing the EDM was for rewiring my bike. I believe the FSM has most of the wiring schematics included towards the back....but the EDM will give you specifics on how to trouble-shoot electrical problems....which are an entirely different animal to deal with but can be fun trying to figure it out.

[ozark]

I just bought a new '08 XL 1200 C (yes, I did say new! She only had 11 miles on her when I test rode her) and although she is covered under warranty, I want to be able to do minor repairs and tweaks myself. Can anyone recommend a GOOD repair manual? I know that Haynes, Chilton, and Clymer (to name a few) all make a manual for this bike, but I'd like to get your opinion on which one you think is the best.

I haven't read the other posts but I'm sure most will agree; go with the factory manual. Skip the others. Buy the manual and don't be afraid to ask lots of questions.

I do everything but engine or transmission work pretty much everything else is plug & play.

Ozark

[Bone]

Does the HD manual provide the part numbers?

FYI - service manuals almost NEVER provide parts numbers, that's almost always only found in separate parts manuals.

My only beef with the HD service manual is they don't tell you what size nut or bolt you're trying to loosen/tighten.

OMFG, you probably want a manual that wipes your ass for you too :rolleyes: :p

[far2paranoid]

OMFG, you probably want a manual that wipes your ass for you too :rolleyes: :p

Nah, the service manual pages are a bit too rough for that... it leaves splinters.

[Screw Loose Dan]

Since everyone has been posting advice to get the manuals...here's the part numbers:

$38 - 99451-08A - Part Manual
$48 - 99484-08A - Factory Service Manual
$48 - 99495-08A - Electrical Service Manual

Prices given are from the online dealers - Zanotti HD (https://www.zanottimotor.com/shopping/pLookUp.php), Chicago HD (http://www.chicagoharley.com/), Surdyke HD (http://www.surdyke.com/default.asp)

the electrical manual be advised that there are a lot of $$$$$$$ Expensive $$$$$$$ tools that are required to work on the system.

Gotta agree here with far2paranoid. I have the electric diagnostic manual (EDM) and a multimeter (even have a cheap $15 one) and I can get quite far with those two. If I make myself a "break-out" box to plug inbetween the main engine harness and the ECM then the book would be invaluable.

Although the purpose of me purchasing the EDM was for rewiring my bike. I believe the FSM has most of the wiring schematics included towards the back....but the EDM will give you specifics on how to trouble-shoot electrical problems....which are an entirely different animal to deal with but can be fun trying to figure it out.

I'm kinda surprised Cosmo that you had this response. I really don't think any expensive tools are required for troubleshooting 99% of these bikes (and by these I mean EFI Sportsters). And a typical VOM multimeter doesn't count as an expensive tool. :p

There's been at least a handful of threads on this forum where we've helped out other members troubleshoot their electrical issues where they had nothing more then a VOM and we had our Electrical Diagnostic Manuals. Sure, sometimes you have to do a little thinking about what the manual is telling you to do instead of just following it step-by-step. You might have to improvise a little, but the answers are in there. No fancy computers. No fancy breakout boxes. It makes things easier, sure. It's better not to pierce the insulation, sure. But required? I dunno :dunno

I think one of the big myths on the Internet is that you need expensive "gear" to troubleshoot electrical problems on EFI bikes. Sure, there are a few things where it's the only way. Very few things are that way though. And, for those that run a decent fuel management system (TTS, SERT, etc), they already have the "fancy" computer they need to diagnose things. The break-out box is a convenience as far as I'm concerned. Sure, for a dealer working on bikes day-in-day-out, it's a necessity. But, for us shade tree types there's nearly always a way around it.

[Papa "D"]

Can someone define/explain what a "Breakout Box" is? I have never heard this term before.

[Cosmo Kramer]

I'm kinda surprised Cosmo that you had this response. I really don't think any expensive tools are required for troubleshooting 99% of these bikes (and by these I mean EFI Sportsters). And a typical VOM multimeter doesn't count as an expensive tool.

Dan, I think you misunderstood...or, more likely my bad grammer (that's why I am an engineer and not an english major! ;)) I was saying that with the Electric diagnostics manual and a multimeter (which as I said...only cost me $15) you can solve a lot of problems. The person I quoted said it isn't bad as long as you don't buy every tool that HD says is required.

Having a break-out box would be the icing on the cake....as you know they are used quite often in the trouble-shooting diagrams and allows you to better see what inputs / outputs are from the ECM. There are times where you can get around not using one and I think we have done that pretty well. However, there have been times where I couldn't either...I want to say it was with an O2 sensor recently but I could be wrong....although luckily other tests determined the root cause. I see it being really useful on the output side from the ECM....like you said...wouldn't have to pierce the insulation on the wires. Can't be too hard to make one...maybe that will be a winter project for myself. :doh

It is definitely more challenging not having one...although electrical issues are pretty tough to begin with at times...but that's what makes it fun too. Well....as long as it is someone else's electrical problem and not mine! :shhhh

Can someone define/explain what a "Breakout Box" is? I have never heard this term before.

From my understanding it is simply a box that plugs inbetween the engine harness and the ECM. There are multiple positions that you can insert your test leads from your multimeter into so you can read the inputs and outputs from the ECM. So the entire electrical system is intact but you can probe the different positions in the break-out box to see what is actually going into and out of the ECM. I believe it can go inbetween the TSM/TSSM/HFSM and the wiring harness also.

Something like this:
http://www.autobodytoolmart.com/images/PRODUCT/medium/14677.gif

I am sure the real HD techs on here will describe it better than I did. :D

[Toolgirl]

Hey guys, I just received my HD service manual from an ebay seller ($43 incl shipping) and wanted to say thanks to everyone for suggesting the factory manual. :urock

[Papa "D"]

From my understanding it is simply a box that plugs inbetween the engine harness and the ECM. There are multiple positions that you can insert your test leads from your multimeter into so you can read the inputs and outputs from the ECM. So the entire electrical system is intact but you can probe the different positions in the break-out box to see what is actually going into and out of the ECM. I believe it can go inbetween the TSM/TSSM/HFSM and the wiring harness also.

Something like this:
http://www.autobodytoolmart.com/images/PRODUCT/medium/14677.gif

I am sure the real HD techs on here will describe it better than I did. :D

Now I know; And knowing is half the battle. G.I Joe...

[bigjnsa]

FYI - service manuals almost NEVER provide parts numbers, that's almost always only found in separate parts manuals.



OMFG, you probably want a manual that wipes your ass for you too :rolleyes: :p

Its the frickin service manual, it SHOULD tell me what size stuff is!

[m.breen]

I just called each dealer until I found one who had one. It was $60 something and change.

Definetly get that...They are $120 + 15% tax here in Toronto, Canada. I forgot to get one last time I was in the U.S. I was tire shopping. I think that will be my next purchase....hopefully not here!!!!

[ParrotHead]

Definitely track down the parts manual. As has been already stated, it really helps putting things back together when you have an exploded view.

Also, in the back it lists all the bolt sizes in case you need to replace one.

[Bone]

Its the frickin service manual, it SHOULD tell me what size stuff is!

You big let me help you with the important stuff

BREATH IN

BREATH OUT

BREATH IN

BREATH OUT

Repeat

mmmmm kay

:p

[westercamp]

I got my clymer manual here and it is pretty good.

[westercamp]

forgot the link

http://www.themanualstore.com/Harley-Davidson-Motorcycle-Manual-Repair-Service-s/118.htm

[Bone]

Why settle for pretty good when the OEM manual is available for not much more?