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View Full Version : Ironhead title for a 76 matches case-not frame


fergerburger
8th December 2009, 22:59
What do you guys think about running a 76 bike off the case numbers only for the title. In other words, run the 76 motor in a pre-70's frame I got layin' around, and just say it is titled off the engine......registered as a 76 with the DMV.

How many guys would do it????

69camfrk
8th December 2009, 23:13
As long as your frame has no legal issues you're fine.

1976 XL
8th December 2009, 23:34
Why not? If you can title it that way, I would do it.

fergerburger
8th December 2009, 23:40
my concern is that some yahoo buys the frame at a garage sale, re-titles it in a neighboring state, then I drive into that state, and bang....I'm screwed when I get pulled over by the Po-Po. I tend to get pulled over.....especially by State Troopers.

einheit 13
8th December 2009, 23:48
Thats the way I ran my 75. It was titled as a 74 when I got it because the PO had wrecked it and bout another bike for the frame. When I got it, I stripped all the bondo off and there were only 4 numbers on it, 3 were legible. So I titled it off the motor. If you're that worried about it, grind the numbers off and just give a bill of sale. A lot of frames are like that around here.

meanmechanic
8th December 2009, 23:50
my concern is that some yahoo buys the frame at a garage sale, re-titles it in a neighboring state, then I drive into that state, and bang....I'm screwed when I get pulled over by the Po-Po. I tend to get pulled over.....especially by State Troopers.

If you keep the frame w\numbers, no issues. If you sell it GRIND the numbers off the frame and sell as parts w\ biil o sale.

Moon Wolf
9th December 2009, 00:30
As long as your frame has no legal issues you're fine.

States enforce the law differently, but technically this would not be a legally titled bike in any state, so problems could ensue.

If you have a bill of sale and a title for the old bike, some states will issue you a riveted on frame tag that has either the same number as your title and engine or a new VIN number conjured up by the state.

That said, the gendarmes don't seem to be as gung-ho as they once were. There was a period in mid seventies when law enforcement on the West Coast was crazy about checking VINs. They actually seized and destroyed motors and frames of bikes that weren't kosher, and would have certainly seized the bike you're describing. I haven't heard of them doing that for a long time, but I suppose it's still possible.

At the very least, I would carry with me a notorized bill of sale for the frame.

konel1
9th December 2009, 00:40
In my state they register and title your bike by the frame s/n.DMV does'nt seem to care about the engine numbers very much.I'd check with DMV just to be sure exactly which numbers they are interested in.You might take into consideration if you ever decide to sell it and it goes to another state.Might open a really big can of worms.Might be a bad situation then.

garbiker
9th December 2009, 01:51
NEVER GRIND THE NOS OFF ANY THING> OR restamp them IF they find any sign of a grind you can lose your bike. THE frame on the bike is the only vin no used unless a older one with no frame no. THEY know which ones. IN some states They only used motor nos but now have changed to the frame vin . I have seen several bikes taken away in fl at daytona. bike week. you may fool some but when a knogable one looks at it you will have to show all the proff you can to keep it. ALA use to be a non tittle state but now is tough on that. so they do not use them for a retittle . as before. goodluck . get a rebuild tittle and be safe. and keep you bike . I got a 05 motor that was salvage and had busted cases . and was restamped for the salvage cases . can not sell it . and have the papers from both motors and picture of the busted cases. and a salvage tittle off the cases the salvage co sold me with restamped nos. and then inspected then told can not use it. but for parts. .

fergerburger
9th December 2009, 01:53
here's the bike...the guy will take 1500 for it....it was a drag bike...title matches engine...frame history unknown
http://i700.photobucket.com/albums/ww7/0degreesf/1974_basket/76_blue.jpg

Gone
9th December 2009, 01:59
1500 dollars, SOLD PM me

carl609
9th December 2009, 02:02
Good looking bike.

fergerburger
9th December 2009, 02:04
so the motor is blown. that's why it is so cheap...plus...it is way out in the middle of nowhere so I can not see it untilI drive 7 hours to buy it....it looks like it has an air shifter on it....this is my kind of bike...the kind I really enjoy rebuilding.....but the title issue worries me...Minnesota will hassle me and would force me to bond that bike if they find out the frame has no VIN

joestuff
9th December 2009, 02:48
fergerburger, consult you local DMV/MVA. You might be able to get a special construction title for it. If you can prove ownership of the engine and frame, you can get a new VIN. It would then be a 2009 model year bike in the eye of the law. Then no worries. I could tell you how to do it in Maryland...

meanmechanic
9th December 2009, 11:53
fergerburger, consult you local DMV/MVA. You might be able to get a special construction title for it. If you can prove ownership of the engine and frame, you can get a new VIN. It would then be a 2009 model year bike in the eye of the law. Then no worries. I could tell you how to do it in Maryland...

I agree. The only absolute way for any one in any state to get the answer you need in your area is to get it touch w\ local DMV or whatever they call themselves in their state. Good answer joestuff.

einheit 13
9th December 2009, 15:23
NEVER GRIND THE NOS OFF ANY THING> OR restamp them IF they find any sign of a grind you can lose your bike. THE frame on the bike is the only vin no used unless a older one with no frame no. THEY know which ones. IN some states They only used motor nos but now have changed to the frame vin . I have seen several bikes taken away in fl at daytona. bike week. you may fool some but when a knogable one looks at it you will have to show all the proff you can to keep it. ALA use to be a non tittle state but now is tough on that. so they do not use them for a retittle . as before. goodluck . get a rebuild tittle and be safe. and keep you bike . I got a 05 motor that was salvage and had busted cases . and was restamped for the salvage cases . can not sell it . and have the papers from both motors and picture of the busted cases. and a salvage tittle off the cases the salvage co sold me with restamped nos. and then inspected then told can not use it. but for parts. .

You're wrong (at least under Va laws). Once anything has a salvage tile, it cannot be registered for the road again. You can sell it all you want. The only way to have it titled is if it has been rebuilt by a certified DOT shop and gets a new dealer title with an "R" designation showing that it has been rebuilt. VIN numbers on frames started in 1970. Beyond that, if you don't have a title, you can get a special construction title for the vehicle and the new numbers put on the frame (and engine) will become its new VIN and title to match. Same as building a new frame (when it was legal) and building a trailer. i gt this straight when I redid mine and got spooked. My 71 bonnie is titled by the motor because the 67 frame has no VIN, same with the 1960 I have. I had a 69 XL frame that only had a part number-no VIN was stamped anywhere and the frame had never been touched by anyone once it left the factory, the dealer, and was bought by Jim McClure. My step dad bought the frame from him, and I got the frame from my step dad. I sold it 3 years ago with only a bill of sale. Every engine it had in it had numbers that matched the title. My 69 CB750 was the same way, so was the 70 frame I chopped up to go with it. Ever wonder why motors now have the VIN stamped on them?? You buy a custom frame, you title by motor VIN. You can't title by an MSO alone.

garbiker
9th December 2009, 16:01
In minn you can rebuild a salvage that does not have the desrtuction on it like fl has on some. Been building bike from the 60s. custom and reconstruction. and wrecks. just have to do the paper work and get it inspected by the state inspector. OH I was licened to do that. and still am DID NOT MC CLURE RUN A FUEL HARLEY> ??AND in minn you have to tittle by the mos on a custom frame. thanks al garner gar

einheit 13
9th December 2009, 17:00
In minn you can rebuild a salvage that does not have the desrtuction on it like fl has on some. Been building bike from the 60s. custom and reconstruction. and wrecks. just have to do the paper work and get it inspected by the state inspector. OH I was licened to do that. and still am DID NOT MC CLURE RUN A FUEL HARLEY> ??AND in minn you have to tittle by the mos on a custom frame. thanks al garner gar

Yeah, McClure was THE man on the fuel HDs....thats what took his life. His last run for 'glory' (trying to break his own record) ended up grenading the motor and the rear cylinder/head caught him in the chest, again. After the last time it happened, he always wore a chest protector. This time, it hurt him so bad (from previous injuries and because of his age) he had complications with all the surgeries and his body couldn't recover. I feel very fortunate to have run through his shop as a barefooted kid, work there in the summer, and generally get to know the man. His shop put out some serious hot rods on the streets of Richmond and the Hampton Roads areas. His shop is still going, as is the drag team...it'll never be the same though. I miss him, as do many others...
http://www.ahdra.com/photos2008/vamcclure1.jpg

66xlch
9th December 2009, 17:24
Here in CA, if they see ANY modification of the numbers they take the parts and destroy them. I had a friend who's powdercoater ground some of his number too thin, and restamped them to bring them back, and now his frame is gone. About twice a year the cops come into my shop and check every number on every bike or part for theft. They confiscated a springer from one customer because he had cut the number tab off of it, and they also took a set of panhead cases because they were restamped. VIN numbers are serious business to them.

Most salvage bikes can be rebuilt and registered here with just an inspection, but they also have a non-rebuildable status, but it's really rare. I'm not sure what constitutes this designation, but I have heard of one example before.

It seems like if you had this bike here, the only issue would be proving you aquired it legally, and then you might have to have an assigned VIN (blue tag) for the frame. It is hard to guess what answers you'll get from the DMV, as the days of older bikes being common have passed, and you might get someone who does'nt know what they are doing. I usually just adamantly push the issue, and somehow end up with what I want.

hmiller
9th December 2009, 17:31
You could always buy a frame, either a hardtail aftermarket or another HD frame with a title. Use the title for the motor and the title for the new frame.

I would not under any circumstances grind the old number off the frame.

Same in RI, the title goes with the vin on the frame.

Gone
9th December 2009, 18:35
so i guess i gotta see how Michigans DMV is. i have an engine with the title of the bike it came from, the frame is long gone.

Ferrous Head
9th December 2009, 23:08
What a funny situation. 50 States 50 different sets of laws to comply with. But tell me guys, if it gets legally titled in any one state it's legal everywhere else, right ?
I 'm pretty sure this is how ITS works. They buy the bike from you, have it titled in an "easy" state and then sell the bike back to you along with the new title. That's what they did for me anyway.
Here in Australia the VIN stays with the chasis - they don't care about engine numbers other than recording what's in there. So if I have a 69 frame with a 99 motor it's still titled as a 69.

einheit 13
10th December 2009, 13:37
yep, a title is a title....

phideux
10th December 2009, 15:05
My 75 has an aftermarket frame with no numbers. I know the original owner who used it as a race bike back in the 70s. When I bought it the title matched the engine. I've had it for many years with no problems. But SC is a little lax on it's DMV rules.

joestuff
10th December 2009, 17:37
Yea, A title is a title. Some states do not issue titles for old vehicles, just a bill of sale. ITS and the other title companys register in a state that does not require a title for old vehicles, like Alabama or Maine, and then they send you the active registration, and you then get a title. The trick is that some of the same states that do not title old vehicles also do not inspect them, so nobody really sees the vehicle, only the paperwork.

You might have a 70s bike with a title, and no vin on the frame. You could even sell it as long as the state your selling it to does not require an inspection for old vehicles.

But, what happens when a cop shakes you down, or you go to Bike Week, and the Federal VRTF(Vehicle Recovery Task Force) notices you lack of correct VIN, or you try to sell it in a state that inspects...then your screwed.

Think long and hard before chopping in such a way as it takes the VIN off the neck, or replacing a VIN having frame. Might cost you your ride someday.(chances are slim, I admit)

Ivan RoachCoach
10th December 2009, 18:04
...paperwork on vehicles if there's even a whiff of an out-of-state company that expedites titles having had a hand in the process.
Down at the DMVs in Florida, they know all of the players and are VERY suspicious of fishy title transfers.

Which is why you have to mind your Ps and Qs, documents-wise, before you sink any $$$ into a project that isn't 100% jake here in The Sunshine State.