http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/4912382.html


June 22, 2007, 12:15PM
Man dies after assault over Harley Davidson

By PAIGE HEWITT
Copyright 2007 Houston Chronicle

An unidentified man has died this morning after being assaulted near a
southside tavern when he knocked over someone's Harley-Davidson.

Harris County sheriff's officials said the 47-year-old man, who had been kicked
out of the bar in the 14000 block of Almeda, knocked over a Harley-Davidson
parked out front of the bar and an adjacent store. The man went inside the
store and purchased beer.

A man from inside the store went outside, confronted him about the
motorcycle and struck him several times in the head, officials said. The man
fell to the ground and struck his head on the concrete, officials said.

The man went home, where his father discovered him dead around 5 a.m.

Officials said they are unsure whether charges will be filed, pending a cause of
death from the Harris County Medical Examiner's Office, which is performing
an autopsy today.

paige.hewitt@chron.com

Take a look at the comments on the article at the URL above (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/4912382.html) ...

--Chris

its hard to say he deserved it, cuz the guy died...but its harder for me to say I wouldnt do the same

was the harley ok?

Aren't you suppose to get a Medal, Plaque, or something for that? :smoke

wonder if he wouldve died if he hadnt been drunk.... then again...if he hadnt been drunk, chances are he wouldnt have knocked/pushed the bike over. And if he hadnt of knocked/pushed the bike over... he wouldnt have *fallen down* and cracked his skull on the concrete.

Aren't you suppose to get a Medal, Plaque, or something for that? :smoke

i think these chicks come over and wash you AND the bike
http://blogs.myrtlebeachonline.com/mbb/images/bikiniteam.jpe

As usual with these kinds of stories there really aren't enough facts to know what all happened. I don't condone knocking over the bike but then killing somebody doesn't meet with my approval either. I wish we had more facts. :(

AND this chicks hotter sister comes over and she does the same thing with her hand, except with her face wherever you want
http://www.ireysroad.com/desmosedici.JPG

i think these chicks come over and wash you AND the bike
http://blogs.myrtlebeachonline.com/mbb/images/bikiniteam.jpe

Damn...where the hell is that bike wash!!! :banadanc

This was just in the news today. I imagine we'll hear about it more soon.

--Chris

Damn...where the hell is that bike wash!!! :banadanc

my house :p :banadanc :banana

I have to agree with the "Not enough facts comment" But knocking over a bike does not condone Murder.

If in fact the owner of the bike caused the death, then he deserves what's coming to him.

I don't care if you ride a Harley or any other kind of bike... Getting it knocked over does not give you the right to take another's life nor is it justification.



:doh

OK, but the guy was alive enough to go home where he was found dead no!?

not say he "deserved" it but I would say that he more than likely provoked the beating. Wasn't too long ago that I had to 'put my hands on' a guy because he ran into my parked bike and said it was my fault.

In 1989 (I had been riding my XL for 2 years) I rented a Tour Glide and loaded it up with all my camping gear for a bike trip. I stood the bike up, which was parked right in front of the dealer, off the jiffy stand and promptly went over on the ride side, the grip on my bike jammed right into the tank on the bike that was parked next to me. I'm glad the dude whose bike I dropped my bike onto didn't whack me on the head a couple times.

--Chris

i think these chicks come over and wash you AND the bike
http://blogs.myrtlebeachonline.com/mbb/images/bikiniteam.jpe
ok--I think these babes owe me a wash!!!

but you didnt do it intentionally...thats the difference

OK, but the guy was alive enough to go home where he was found dead no!?

It's that pesky swelling of fluid around the brain thing.

but you didnt do it intentionally...thats the difference
True, it was an accident. And I wasn't drunk. We don't know if this was an accident or not here. I have seen drunk people do some stupid sh*t with motorcycles.

--Chris

It's that pesky swelling of fluid around the brain thing.

the alcohol didnt help keep the swelling down!?! :dunno:

The way I look at it:
The A$$ whooping was justifed...
But I aint gonna intentionally kill some drunk for pushing my Bike over...
Unfortunate series of events for both parties.

the alcohol didnt help keep the swelling down!?! :dunno:

Good point, it always shrinks my brain. :drinkup

The way I look at it:
The A$$ whooping was justifed...
But I aint gonna intentionally kill some drunk for pushing my Bike over...
Unfortunate series of events for both parties.

exactly! :D

I hope you all never have to suffer the feelings of what it's like to cause the Death of another Human being... Mistake or not, you can't change what is past. That regret will live with you for the rest of your life.

It's a bike... Of course we are protective about it, but it' still just a piece of metal, that is hopefully insured.

Did the guy who knocked it over have a family?

Was it a mistake?

Was he drunk?

How old were his kids?

How does his family feel?





Drunk guy on his way home falls and knocks a bike over, biker beats him to death.

JUSTIFIED?

Drunk guy on his way home kicks over a bike, biker beats him to death.

JUSTIFIED?

Think about it...

I hope you all never have to suffer the feelings of what it's like to cause the Death of another Human being... Mistake or not, you can't change what is past. That regret will live with you for the rest of your life.
I have had to take someones life, but i didnt regret it, because it was either him, or myself and a bunch of fellow marines/sailors...I'm home, He's not...I dont really thing about it.


Drunk guy on his way home falls and knocks a bike over, biker beats him to death.

JUSTIFIED?

Drunk guy on his way home kicks over a bike, biker beats him to death.

JUSTIFIED?

Think about it...

I really think, after re-reading the story, that we need more info...

If the guy knocked the bike over on purpose regardless whether he was drunk or not, then he deserved an ass kicking...did he deserve to die!? well I don't think so but I'm sure that was unintended...if the biker wanted to kill him, the guy wouldn't have made it home...simple as that

The guy got his ass beat, and cracked his noodle on the ground. It's his own fault. If ... If ... If ...

Whoever beat him up is getting a slap on the wrist since it sounds unintentional.

What did Billy Lame get for vehicular manslaughter or whatever it was he managed to get it reduced to for annihilating the dude on the scooter?

Hmmmm, Good points all around.

So let me see if I understand this:
Some drunk a$$hole, pushs over my bike causing me property damage. I respond with:
1) hey man, hope you got insurance... at which point he says *F-you* and walks away.
2) hey man, Im calling the cops... at which point he says *F-you* and walks away.

So the only solution here is to ignore it. Then call the insurance company in the morning, pay the deductable, make the repairs.

However:
I cant afford the $1000 deductible... so Im just kinda screwed in that regard.
I cant imagine the Cops dropping everything to come to my aid, before said Drunk A$$ wanders away... so Im just kinda screwed in that regard too.
Ultimately... the only real response, is no response... and Im just kinda screwed.
All this screwing, and I dont even get a Kiss out of it.


Interesting, I never looked at it in that light. Must be that kinda gentler society Ive heard tell about.....
I dont think anyone here is seriously talking about commiting ManSlaughter here for pushing over a Bike. Because if that was the case I'd just shoot the F'er instead of busting my knuckles.

I hate to think drunk is an excuse to damage anothers property but death is a hard price to pay. I probably would have called the cops. I have full coverage.

I am glad the drunk dude didn't get in his car and run over a motorcyclist on his way home.

you know-some of you really are missing the point here. 1st we do not know if it was intentional. Nor do I know if any of you have ever had to defend yourself or your home, property or family. Do any of you that said it is only a bike, carry a gun?
I am a black belt in karate AND I carry a concealed pistol always. And I know how to use both.
The reason is that I refuse to be a victim. Ido not WANT to kill someone by hand or by shooting them, BUT I will if I have to.
If a guy, drunk or not, kicks over my bike, I have the right to say something to him. If he advances and I feel threatened I have the right to defend myself. If someone means me or mine harm I WILL use any and all means to stop him, prevent him, or make him dead if that is what's needed.

If someone kicks over your bike, you call the cops...You don't take the law into your own hands. And then call the insurance co. That's what it's for.

From that article, we don't know fully what transpired during the "confrontation". The drunk may have tried to leave and the biker had every right to detain him - which may have resulted in the drunk taking a shot at the biker. According to the article, the biker did NOT "beat the drunk to death". It said the biker struck blows, the drunk fell down and the confrontation apparently ended, at which time the drunk got up and left under his own power. Even if the biker initiated the violence, if he broke off combat when the drunk went down, he excercised enough restraint to show he likely meant no permanent injury or death. The drunk shares responsibility for the outcome unless the bike tipping over was accidental and he was pleading with the biker as to how he could make the damage "right".

An unidentified man has died this morning after being assaulted near a southside tavern when he knocked over someone's Honda motorcycle.

Earlier reports had said the motorcycle was a Harley-Davidson.
I can understand getting upset over a Harley, but a killing someone for a Honda? :doh

If someone kicks over your bike, you call the cops...You don't take the law into your own hands. And then call the insurance co. That's what it's for.

"Responsible" citizens assist law enforcement - not just pass it off like dirty laundry. Was the physical confrontation over an attempt at detaining a criminal suspect, or unrestrained rage leading to the brutal boot stomping over a simple accident? The article is incomplete at best.

I can understand getting upset over a Harley, but a killing someone for a Honda? :doh

I hope you're kidding...if you're not, well let me just tell you that he got his bill monthly too for that Honda...property is property.

Guess he should have had an Ironhead...!! Just jokin.. I heard it was "Bad Boy Brads bike that got kicked over....

From that article, we don't know fully what transpired during the "confrontation". The drunk may have tried to leave and the biker had every right to detain him - which may have resulted in the drunk taking a shot at the biker. According to the article, the biker did NOT "beat the drunk to death". It said the biker struck blows, the drunk fell down and the confrontation apparently ended, at which time the drunk got up and left under his own power. Even if the biker initiated the violence, if he broke off combat when the drunk went down, he excercised enough restraint to show he likely meant no permanent injury or death. The drunk shares responsibility for the outcome unless the bike tipping over was accidental and he was pleading with the biker as to how he could make the damage "right".
Well said:... I jus wishd I cud speek dis gooders. :D

ya know....people fall down all the time...bumping your head is a common occurence when you fall down...

I see it as a technicality that the "gentleman" happened to slip and fall by a tipped over motorcycle....

The other gentleman that was seen near the fallen bike and the man on the ground was possibley there to help both to their upright position...

no?

ya know....people fall down all the time...bumping your head is a common occurence when you fall down...

I see it as a technicality that the "gentleman" happened to slip and fall by a tipped over motorcycle....

The other gentleman that was seen near the fallen bike and the man on the ground was possibley there to help both to their upright position...

no?

Hmmmmm Think I used that line before :D

We don't have the facts so we don't know what happened, but they have a word for someone who thinks its okay to beat a person to death over an inanimate object. Its called a sociopath. Look up the definition here http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sociopath

Some of your responses have me wondering about your mental health. Are you that unfeeling or are you responding the way you think a "Biker" is supposed to respond?

We need more information to really have a rational opinion of what happened and why. Did the drunk do it on purpose or was it an accident? Did he deny responsibility or try to apologize? Was he contrite or did he become aggressive when confronted by the owner? Was his death caused by the blows to the head, the fall to the concrete, acute alochol poisoning or did he just die of natural causes? I'm sure there will be an autopsey and an investigation into the incident and somehow semi-justice will prevail.

My wife is always telling me to relax when things like this happen. She says "You may be right, but proving it is probably going to create more problems than its worth."

And the real bottom line is someone's Father, son, brother, uncle, nephew or dad is dead, and maybe over a few hundred dollars damage to a motorcycle.

was the harley ok?

sadly !! Thats what I was thinking !!!

Psychopathic or modernly called Sociopathic tendencies are very helpfull in given situations....if one can "turn" these on and off things become much easier and emotionaly less taxing.

As far as killing some one for a motorcycle...maybe it was a family possession, handed from generation to generation and has that kind of emotional bond to merrit that type of action...hmmmm?

As far as killing some one for a motorcycle...maybe it was a family possession, handed from generation to generation and has that kind of emotional bond to merrit that type of action...hmmmm?

Its a Honda, you ride them and THROW them away! :smoke you dont pass them down.

Its a Honda, you ride them and THROW them away! :smoke you dont pass them down.

How old is your Sporty?

Its a Honda, you ride them and THROW them away! :smoke you dont pass them down.


uh huh...I had a friend that had a REBEL....we called it his HONDA DAVIDSON...LOL

it was like a 7/10 size DYNA...LOL

He was big guy too...He looked like a monkey !!!!ing a football...LOL

but that was his baby...

OK...I see your point...:laugh

uh huh...I had a friend that had a REBEL....we called it his HONDA DAVIDSON...LOL

it was like a 7/10 size DYNA...LOL

He was big guy too...He looked like a monkey !!!!ing a football...LOL

but that was his baby...

OK...I see your point...:laugh


Glad you did and took it the way it was meant. With a smile:) .

There are a few people here with old sportsters, but most people that actively post have fairly new bikes. I hang around with a fairly eclectic bunch of bike riders and they have lots of old iron, or in the case of 60-70-80's japanese motorcycles--old plastic.

Glad you did and took it the way it was meant. With a smile:) .

There are a few people here with old sportsters, but most people that actively post have fairly new bikes. I hang around with a fairly eclectic bunch of bike riders and they have lots of old iron, or in the case of 60-70-80's japanese motorcycles--old plastic.

I still like my 89...even though the engine and trans are newer...:geek

Harley or Honda, that point is moot.... we're missing too many important facts to judge anything..... what little facts we have shows that the biker did not beat him to death, he hit him.... and the drunk did not die from the blows, he died from the fall.....this guy could have been a falling down drunk with a tuff guy attitude.... he was probably falling down when he knocked over the bike......

I'm just sayin'

Ww

Harley or Honda, that point is moot.... we're missing too many important facts to judge anything..... what little facts we have shows that the biker did not beat him to death, he hit him.... and the drunk did not die from the blows, he died from the fall.....this guy could have been a falling down drunk with a tuff guy attitude.... he was probably falling down when he knocked over the bike......

I'm just sayin'

Ww

That's what I said...:geek

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/4912382.html

June 22, 2007, 10:41PM
Witness: Man unruly before punch over motorcycle

By ANNE MARIE KILDAY and PAIGE HEWITT
Copyright 2007 Houston Chronicle

Harris County homicide detectives are investigating the death of Clarence Cambron Jr., 47, who was found dead in his home early Friday after a fight outside a bar in south Houston.

Sheriff's officials initially reported that Cambron had kicked over a Harley-Davidson motorcycle after he was thrown out of the Almeda Depot bar in the 14000 block of Almeda. According to sheriff's officials, a man inside a nearby grocery store then got into a fight with Cambron.

Cambron was found dead at 5 a.m. Friday by his father at their home in the 14000 block of Papdosa, less than a mile from the bar.

Lt. John Martin, a spokesman for the sheriff's office, said the case is under investigation.

"We have spoken with the guy who had his motorcycle knocked over," Martin said. "At this point, no charges have been filed. It will probably have to go to the DA's office."

The Harris County Medical Examiner's Office will determine an official cause of death.

Mike Blakeman, the owner of Almeda Depot, said he does not believe the fight caused Cambron's death.

"The so-called fight couldn't have been enough to kill the man," Blakeman said. "The man was alive and breathing when he left here. He died at his home."

Blakeman also said that the motorcycle that was knocked over was a Honda — not a Harley-Davidson.

"It's one of those Hondas that looks a lot like a Harley," Blakeman explained.

Blakeman claimed Cambron was asked to leave "because he was trying to buy drugs from several customers."

Blakeman said his bar, located in south Houston near Beltway 8, "is just a simple beer joint. Everybody knows everybody. We never have any problems or trouble."

When Cambron refused to leave the bar, several "regulars" pushed and shoved him outside, Blakeman said.

Blakeman said he had heard reports that Cambron might have hit his head on concrete in the parking lot.

"Some people are saying that he hit his head on the concrete, but the guys took him out on the grass," Blakeman said. "They threw him into the grass, and he got up and kicked the guy's motorcycle over."

The customers then went back into the bar to tell the owner of the motorcycle about his bike, Blakeman said.

The motorcycle owner went out into the parking lot and "hit the guy once," Blakeman said. After that incident at about 8 p.m., Blakeman said, Cambron left.

Blakeman said he is "sure" that the motorcycle that was knocked over was not a Harley, because he knows the owner. And Blakeman said he knows Harleys because he owns one.

"If somebody knocked my Harley over, I'd whup him, too," Blakeman said. "I wouldn't have hit him just once."

Houston motorcyclists who read initial accounts of the incident condemned Cambron for knocking over a Harley-Davidson motorcycle, but agreed his death was uncalled for.

Donny Malone, general manager of Republic Harley-Davidson, said that many Harley owners "are more attached to their motorcycle than anything else they own. Still, it's not worth a person losing his life over it."

The bike's owner "should have called the authorities" if the motorcycle had been damaged, Malone said.

Malone admitted that he'd be likely to fight someone who knocked over one of his two Harley-Davidson motorcycles.

"I could see getting into fisticuffs. Most definitely, if the guy had been drinking. It's the same as if he insulted your wife or your girlfriend," Malone said, adding: "But I don't think I would kill somebody."

Friends and relatives who had gathered at Cambron's small home Friday evening declined to comment about his death.

A man who identified himself as Cambron's brother also declined to respond to the allegations that his brother was attempting to buy drugs.

"We've heard everything from here to Sunday about what happened ... but we really do not want to comment at this time," the man said.

anne.kilday@chron.com paige.hewitt@chron.com

Very interesting details...

--Chris

I wonder how the story will be reported next. It's interesting that the URL is the same, so the original version of the story is gone, but it's preserved here. Also interesting is the comments on the original article are still there, but now attached to the new version of the story. It's like they're rewriting history.

--Chris

If someone kicks over your bike, you call the cops...You don't take the law into your own hands. And then call the insurance co. That's what it's for..

spoken like a true victim. nothing personal against you. but if i waited for soomeone to come and handle a situation for me and for a profit seeking company to financially reimburse me for money i earned thru blood, sweat and broken bones. I might be living in a card board box, otherwise i would probably be a corpse.

the debate has gone back and forth on the circumstanstial "evidence" of this, but it takes alot more then bumping into a bike to knock it over. if the guy was kicked out of a bar he was most likely being an drunk asshole of some variety, and if he is already pissed off enough to kick a bike over do you think being confronted over it wouldnt result in violence??? the biker didnt kill him.....the confrontation might of...

but alas that is all speculation.

me personally i dont put a whole lot of stock in human life anymore, in some circumstances...yeah i may be a sociopath...my feelings really arent hurt.

I dont condone anger killings, or general killings or killing in general. but someone who means to wrongfully take anything from me in any form (money, life, health, property etc etc) is going to be in for a nasty surprise. and people are too stupid and egotistical to make the situation "right"

not being stupid of course in those circumstances i will follow the law or rules of engagement to a tee and always have (excessive force etc etc ). but if that person dies in the process...i could hardly care.

yeah someone might have lost a brother, aunt, blah, blah, blah, but that is the idiot that picked the wrong fight for the wrong reasons...not my fault...hell other then combat i will try and give a fair warning during confrontations (i.e. "i am going to really hurt you if you proceed on your present course").

i am not a mean person or violent (although trained,very capable and willing if provoked) but i will stand up for myself and defend what is mine as far as they push it.

personally i dont feel bad for this dumbass if my described scenario is the case. dont feel bad for his parents either, they raised a dipshit. might feel sorry for his kids not becasue of his death but the quality of person they had as a father...


yeah i know i am a dick.

I hope you're kidding...if you're not, well let me just tell you that he got his bill monthly too for that Honda...property is property.
Looks like my sarcasm was too subtle. The point I was trying to make was, what did the brand of motorcycle have to do with the story? Why not just report it as 'Man dies after kicking over motorcycle'? The media obviously tried to beat-up the report by claiming it was a Harley, thereby inferring some sort of reverence on that brand against all others.

Then they make matters worse by claiming it wasn't a Harley, only a Honda. Did this make it better of worse? The brand of the motorcycle is irrelevent, so why even mention it?

Of course, no killing is justifiable unless in self-defence. Once again the media plays on the emotions of people to get their attention and boost ratings.

The brand of the motorcycle has nothing to do with the story, the media just wants to portray every Harley rider as a crazy drunken nutjob that would crack a skull over a few scratches. Why "Harley Davidson" is anywhere in that article is beyond me, it has absolutely no bearing on the outcome of the story.

If someone kicked my bike over, I'd hope they fell down and the bike would land on top of him...but I'm not going to blows with anyone over a hunk of metal either....

What's wierd is that I can't find anything on this story in any of the other local news outlets....

If some guy deliberately kicked my bike over, in my estimation, he's asking for a beating.

This guy, 47 years old, living with his parents, and out at a beer joint soliciting drugs.....sounds like he's probably got a serious drug problem. Being beligerent, causing property damage, and then trying to leave the scene of a crime....I'd definitely try to detain him. If he took a swing at the biker, then the biker, yes, is justified in defending himself. It's unfortunate that he died, yes, but what responsibility does the dead guy carry in this whole situation?

It should be interesting to see what other information, if any, comes out.

There is another story out of austin....a man was pulling into an apartment complex and accidentally hit a little girl (non life threatening injuries). When he got out of his car to check on the girl, a crowd started beating him. Another guy got out of the car to help him and the crowd turned on the second guy and beat him to death.....

Just lets you know what out of control emotions can result in....

At this point in the story we don't really know why the guy died. The article mentioned drugs. Maybe he scored some and simply overdosed.

I will never approve violence unless it is in self defence or in defence of someone else. The Police should have been called when the guy intentionally knocked over the bike. In fact, they should have been called to remove the guy from the bar instead of the customers removing him.

Anyone who attacks someone over something like this is a criminal in the eyes of the law and should be prosecuted. Obviously, the exact charges should vary depending on the outcome of the investigation.

To physically assault someone in a situation like this is a sign of personal weakness (emotional instability or extreme immaturity). You may want to hurt/punish someone and it may be a very common occurrence, but it is not the right thing to do.

I would have never been in the Almeda area after dark in the first place.

Even if he had called the cops there is very little chance that the drunk would have still been around when they got there. I would have hit the guy...once....at least because i am attached to my bike as if it were a second child.

Getting Interesting anyway !!!

It will depend on what the coronor say's killed the man. May have been that he had a problem to begin with, In any case if it is determined that the Blow from the patron killed him, Uhh Sorry but, He's gonna be going away for a while...

At this point in the story we don't really know why the guy died. The article mentioned drugs. Maybe he scored some and simply overdosed.

I will never approve violence unless it is in self defence or in defence of someone else. The Police should have been called when the guy intentionally knocked over the bike. In fact, they should have been called to remove the guy from the bar instead of the customers removing him.

Anyone who attacks someone over something like this is a criminal in the eyes of the law and should be prosecuted. Obviously, the exact charges should vary depending on the outcome of the investigation.

To physically assault someone in a situation like this is a sign of personal weakness (emotional instability or extreme immaturity). You may want to hurt/punish someone and it may be a very common occurrence, but it is not the right thing to do.


Ditto ... well said !

The brand of the motorcycle has nothing to do with the story, the media just wants to portray every Harley rider as a crazy drunken nutjob that would crack a skull over a few scratches. Why "Harley Davidson" is anywhere in that article is beyond me, it has absolutely no bearing on the outcome of the story.

If someone kicked my bike over, I'd hope they fell down and the bike would land on top of him...but I'm not going to blows with anyone over a hunk of metal either....

At this point in the story we don't really know why the guy died. The article mentioned drugs. Maybe he scored some and simply overdosed.

I will never approve violence unless it is in self defence or in defence of someone else. The Police should have been called when the guy intentionally knocked over the bike. In fact, they should have been called to remove the guy from the bar instead of the customers removing him.

Anyone who attacks someone over something like this is a criminal in the eyes of the law and should be prosecuted. Obviously, the exact charges should vary depending on the outcome of the investigation.

To physically assault someone in a situation like this is a sign of personal weakness (emotional instability or extreme immaturity). You may want to hurt/punish someone and it may be a very common occurrence, but it is not the right thing to do.


Well Said! Though I don't agree with you completely. And I'm glad you live in the land of OZ where the cops are actually usefull !!

one way or another, the guy needednto be held responsible for damaging someone's property. I have seen this too many times to feel sorry for the guy. People get tired of repairing property damaged by inconsiderate drunken jerks.

one way or another, the guy needednto be held responsible for damaging someone's property. I have seen this too many times to feel sorry for the guy. People get tired of repairing property damaged by inconsiderate drunken jerks.
... I know I am.

We don't have the facts so we don't know what happened, but they have a word for someone who thinks its okay to beat a person to death over an inanimate object. Its called a sociopath. Look up the definition here http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sociopath


Who said he beat the guy to death!?!? what do you call arm chair psychologists that make a diagnosis over the net with NO details...i mean shit, they even got what kind of bike it was wrong...

Some of your responses have me wondering about your mental health. Are you that unfeeling or are you responding the way you think a "Biker" is supposed to respond?
substitute bike with car...if some random drunk guy went in the parking lot and broke the windows on your car...what would you do!?!? I would whoop on him...same as if he had kicked over my bike...NOTHING gives you the right to !!!! with my property

To physically assault someone in a situation like this is a sign of personal weakness (emotional instability or extreme immaturity). You may want to hurt/punish someone and it may be a very common occurrence, but it is not the right thing to do.
its ppl not being physically assaulted for shit that makes people the way they are...gone are the days of the good ol' ass whoopin' when you do something stupid like this... you can be "mature" and "emotionally stable" all you want but those are concepts that didnt exist 50 years ago, and when you did something stupid like that, you paid!

Looks like my sarcasm was too subtle. The point I was trying to make was, what did the brand of motorcycle have to do with the story? Why not just report it as 'Man dies after kicking over motorcycle'? The media obviously tried to beat-up the report by claiming it was a Harley, thereby inferring some sort of reverence on that brand against all others.

Then they make matters worse by claiming it wasn't a Harley, only a Honda. Did this make it better of worse? The brand of the motorcycle is irrelevent, so why even mention it?


in that case I agree...I did think it was a joke, but couldn't really be too sure, and I'm sure someone else was prob. thinking the same thing but seriously

its ppl not being physically assaulted for shit that makes people the way they are...gone are the days of the good ol' ass whoopin' when you do something stupid like this... you can be "mature" and "emotionally stable" all you want but those are concepts that didnt exist 50 years ago, and when you did something stupid like that, you paid!


well said....i agree 100%

emotional control is exactly that. i have gotten in fights and been calm cool and collective and still managed to inflict some damage....and it was warranted.

as i stated before, If the owner of the bike wanted to kill the guy,the guy that kicked over the bike would have NEVER made it home

A: The dude owned a HONDA - therefore he isn't a "biker" at all. :D
B: It was stated that it "looked like a harley", therefore the wannabe biker had to do the "badass biker" routine of beating up the drunken fellow. :doh
C: The reason Harley-Davidson was even mentioned in the article? The fact that it popped up in this very forum is an important clue...the H-D brand name sells.

was the harley ok?

:roflblack

Sorry... :shhhh ...serious subject.

Who said he beat the guy to death!?!? what do you call arm chair psychologists that make a diagnosis over the net with NO details...i mean shit, they even got what kind of bike it was wrong...


substitute bike with car...if some random drunk guy went in the parking lot and broke the windows on your car...what would you do!?!? I would whoop on him...same as if he had kicked over my bike...NOTHING gives you the right to !!!! with my property

First of all, I never said anyone beat anyone else to death. You took the first paragraph out of my post and responded to it out of context.

Here's the rest of my post you convientely left out.

"We need more information to really have a rational opinion of what happened and why. Did the drunk do it on purpose or was it an accident? Did he deny responsibility or try to apologize? Was he contrite or did he become aggressive when confronted by the owner? Was his death caused by the blows to the head, the fall to the concrete, acute alochol poisoning or did he just die of natural causes? I'm sure there will be an autopsey and an investigation into the incident and somehow semi-justice will prevail."

It's easy to pick apart a post when you only quote half the statement.

Second, I didn't diagnose anyone over the interent. I said anyone who thinks its okay to beat anyone to death over an inantimate object is a sociopath. I said that because several people said he got what he deserved for knocking over a bike. A sociopath has no moral compass to guide them and there is no time when it is morally okay to kill someone to make up for property damage. Hell, you can't even legally kill someone unless you fear your LIFE is in danger, not your Harley or Honda in this case.

And third, what difference does it make if its a bike or a car window that's damaged?

Lots of people here want to jump right into the ass kicking stage to protect their stuff. I've been a lot of bars where fights occurred and many times its the one who throws the first punch who gets their butt whipped.

And third, what difference does it make if its a bike or a car window that's damaged?

Lots of people here want to jump right into the ass kicking stage to protect their stuff. I've been a lot of bars where fights occurred and many times its the one who throws the first punch who gets their butt whipped.

ok so i took out the part of your post I agreed with...I posted something similar to that earlier in the thread

whats the difference if its a bike or a window!? EXACTLY MY POINT! I'd whoop on him for EITHER situation...I used that as an example to leave the "typical biker" factor out of the situation.

and yes, I agree...the 1st one that throws the puch usually gets beat up...but thats only if the other guy doesnt get KTFO

One of the replies (comments) on the original (linked to) article page suggests that the biker shouldn't have laid a finger on the person who knocked his bike over, but should have instead just called the police.

I'm not sure how it works in the US, but in the UK you would probably consider yourself lucky to be given a 'crime reference number' from the police phone operator, let alone an actual police officer attending the scene for such a "minor" incident (knocked over motorcycle)!

Jon

One of the replies (comments) on the original (linked to) article page suggests that the biker shouldn't have laid a finger on the person who knocked his bike over, but should have instead just called the police.

I'm not sure how it works in the US, but in the UK you would probably consider yourself lucky to be given a 'crime reference number' from the police phone operator, let alone an actual police officer attending the scene for such a "minor" incident (knocked over motorcycle)!

Jon

I had over $1000 worth of stuff stolen out of my car...and all they did was take a "report" over the phone...no officer was sent out

ok so i took out the part of your post I agreed with...I posted something similar to that earlier in the thread

whats the difference if its a bike or a window!? EXACTLY MY POINT! I'd whoop on him for EITHER situation...I used that as an example to leave the "typical biker" factor out of the situation.

and yes, I agree...the 1st one that throws the puch usually gets beat up...but thats only if the other guy doesnt get KTFO

I understand leaving out the biker thing. Sometimes people act the way they think they are supposed to act.

I've had stuff stolen out of my vehicle three times, but I wasn't around when it happened so I don't know how I'd react. Most thieves aren't going to try to steal your stuff while you're there. They're thieves, so they are usually taking the path of least resistance and stealing your stuff while you're there isn't it.

I understand leaving out the biker thing. Sometimes people act the way they think they are supposed to act.

I've had stuff stolen out of my vehicle three times, but I wasn't around when it happened so I don't know how I'd react. Most thieves aren't going to try to steal your stuff while you're there. They're thieves, so they are usually taking the path of least resistance and stealing your stuff while you're there isn't it.

what does getting your stuff stolen have to do with someone intentionally damaging your property and you being there to catch them...if i had caught the ppl trying to steal my stuff out of my car (which happened more than once) I would have beat the shit out of them, or shot them in the leg, and them whooped on them!

its ppl not being physically assaulted for shit that makes people the way they are...gone are the days of the good ol' ass whoopin' when you do something stupid like this... you can be "mature" and "emotionally stable" all you want but those are concepts that didnt exist 50 years ago, and when you did something stupid like that, you paid!
I think that's a fscked up attitude. People not being physically assaulted makes them what they are, and that's somehow bad?

The dude knocked over a bike, intentionally or accidentally. He doesn't deserve to be assaulted IMO.

--Chris

I think that's a fscked up attitude. People not being physically assaulted makes them what they are, and that's somehow bad?

The dude knocked over a bike, intentionally or accidentally. He doesn't deserve to be assaulted IMO.

--Chris

ok let me elaborate on that...

back in the day, you did something stupid, it was handled then and there and ass whoopins were handed out, you went home, and lived another day...

NOW

you risk getting shot, stabbed, run over or even sued for looking at someone the wrong way...why!? because, any coward can shoot, stab, run over etc....


and this whole, "I'm emotionally mature" crap only works until some asshole comes and grabs your ol' lady's ass and kicks your car door....what are you going to do then!? give him a hug!?

Thanks for elaborating.

--Chris

if the owner of the bike only hit him once, the guy got off easy...we are assuming because he hit him, HE was the bad guy...the owner of the bike might have come out and asked what was going on, at which point, the drunk guy told him to !!!!! OFF since he was angry enough to kick someones bike over...even given the info we were given, you cant make a judgment on the situation...nor can I

Thanks for elaborating.

--Chris

I mean, do you understand what I mean...I didnt just say it talking out of my ass, I personally always tell ppl "no matter how big and bad you think you are, there's always someone out there bigger and badder than you" and I live by that...I dont go around starting fights, but hey, If i have to, I can and will

I understand what you mean, I just don't agree with it. I am not going to assault someone who knocks over my bike. It's just a bike.

--Chris

its ppl not being physically assaulted for shit that makes people the way they are...gone are the days of the good ol' ass whoopin' when you do something stupid like this... you can be "mature" and "emotionally stable" all you want but those are concepts that didnt exist 50 years ago, and when you did something stupid like that, you paid!I agree sounds like you need one!

I agree sounds like you need one!

:rolleyes:

One of the replies (comments) on the original (linked to) article page suggests that the biker shouldn't have laid a finger on the person who knocked his bike over, but should have instead just called the police.

I'm not sure how it works in the US, but in the UK you would probably consider yourself lucky to be given a 'crime reference number' from the police phone operator, let alone an actual police officer attending the scene for such a "minor" incident (knocked over motorcycle)!

Jon



Yup! Unfortunately, that's the way it is in Houston, as well. We're the 4th largest city in the US! They're gonna laugh when they get a call saying 'Somebody knocked some guys motorcycle over and he wants you to come out and make a report..."

Imagine what would've happened if this guy kicked someone's bike over at the Republic of Texas rally!?!? He would've been dead on the scene...

We do know from the report that he was beligerent enough to be kicked out of the bar, by PATRONS! We know that he deliberately kicked someone's bike over! He deserved an ass whoopin'! What we don't know yet is what caused his death.

Karma's a bitch!

I understand what you mean, I just don't agree with it. I am not going to assault someone who knocks over my bike. It's just a bike.

--Chris


depends how they act after and if it was intentional...

if it was (intentional) and they act like an ass afterwards i am going to hurt them. or at least try

just a motorcycle. i guess he didn't have insurance? stupid people out there. i've never been emotionally attatched to stuff that can't love me back.

for those that posted "its just a bike" I'm sure thats not the 1st thing you would say if you woke up tomorrow and it was gone, or severely damaged

If a guy, drunk or not, kicks over my bike, I have the right to say something to him. If he advances and I feel threatened I have the right to defend myself. If someone means me or mine harm I WILL use any and all means to stop him, prevent him, or make him dead if that is what's needed.

This is exactly why I quit carrying. Once the attitude that "Hey! If this gets TOO hairy, I'll just blow him away". Set in I knew it was time to quit carrying a weapon. Your whole attitude changes when you have the false sense of security of a fire arm within easy reach. I decided I wasn't going to end up on Death Row because some clown dented my bike. Because the very act of carrying it means that the decision to use it has already been made. And shooting another person is probably the most expensive thing you can do. Even if it is justified and no charges are filed. Lawyers fees, processing costs and Court costs, you're looking at $20,000 MINIMUM. And the very fact that you have the gun handy makes you far less likely to seek a reasoned solution, and use a violent one. Don't get me wrong, I'm no gun hater. I have a gun collection myself. I guess the older you get, the wiser. Hence the saying "Old men for council, young men for war . :)

just a motorcycle. i guess he didn't have insurance? stupid people out there. i've never been emotionally attatched to stuff that can't love me back.

Reason should always prevail over passion in these things but if a person is attacking your property because they are incapable of attacking you (why else vindictively damage someone else's property, which is what apparently happened in this sad case?) then they should expect a retaliation or at least a reaction to their actions.

In the UK our insurance companies insist on a 'compulsory excess', this is an amount of money that you agree to pay on any insurance claim you make before they will pay out, even on fully comprehensive insurance. The amount depends on the value of the bike but tends to be between $100 and $1000. This means you wont bother making claims on any amount at or below your 'compulsory excess' as the insurance just wouldn't pay out.

So if somebody vindictively knocks your bike over or scratches your paint and only does a few hundred dollars worth of damage, you are just going to have to pay for it out of your own pocket.

We don't have a gun culture over here (contrary to what you may see on the news with young black kids shooting each other in the ghetto areas) and even folding lock knives are illegal (a potential five years in prison for possession of a knife in a public place!), but you can expect some serious physical repercussions if some one vindictively damages another persons motorcycle, especially if that damage is inflicted on the motorcycle as a way of 'getting at' the owner.

Jon

1stGenRex: I had my bike stolen once. When I woke up and saw it gone, I felt sick to my stomach. I called the police and reported it stolen. About 3 hours later I got a call from a police dept not far from me that they had recovered the bike after a chase and that the thief crashed it. I drove down, identified the bike, and when I was in the police station, they had the dude sitting there who stole the bike. I didn't feel like assaulting him. I didn't want to wait for him to get out of the cop shop and then kick his ass. I wasn't even pissed at him. I just wanted my bike back. And it wasn't even that so much. I was just glad to HAVE my bike back.

So, if I woke up today and my bike was stolen or damaged, and I knew who did it, I still wouldn't feel like assaulting anyone over it. I will say it again: it's still just a bike. Don't be so sure what I would say if my bike were stolen (again).

--Chris

Some people, no matter how much you beat them, will never learn.
So what do you do? Hope for the best, expect the worst and plan for it.
So when it happens you have something to fall back on.
Does it feel good to beat the crap out of someone after they do you wrong, sure.
Is it the right thing to do, thats for you to decide.

And to those who carry and are willing, make sure that you hold on to that weapon. A criminal won't think twice about taking it from you and using it on you or your family. If your trained to fight why use weapons? Their too expensive no matter how you look at it.
I leave mine at home.
Just like the old Cash song, Don't take you guns to town son.

Who cares? The gene pool is just a tad cleaner.

reminds me of thishttp://lionvs40midgets.uk-directory.com/lionvsmidgets.htm .02

I think he deserved a hug, maybe some aromathrapy and a day at the spa. He was probably a product of a broken home. Maybe even be from a disadvantaged socio-economic background. He obviously was not breast fed my his mother. Maybe even a "time out" to think about what he had done was in order, you know, to get his head together. What he really could have used was a government program and a good solid week of Oprah. The "biker" should have sat him down, and asked about his childhood... maybe even given him a hand job...

DC

I think he deserved a hug, maybe some aromathrapy and a day at the spa. He was probably a product of a broken home. Maybe even be from a disadvantaged socio-economic background. He obviously was not breast fed my his mother. Maybe even a "time out" to think about what he had done was in order, you know, to get his head together. What he really could have used was a government program and a good solid week of Oprah. The "biker" should have sat him down, and asked about his childhood... maybe even given him a hand job...

DC

no kidding...its alarming how many ppl are very close to agreeing with this completely

shit like that makes me sick....

i have worked my ass off to get what i have. its not about monetary value so much, but if some asshole decides to do X $ amount of damage, that means he just took X amount of hours of my life away that was spent trying to earn that money. Time spent working. that for me means being away from my family, usually doing something difficult and most the time not fully pleasant. I take that personal. I wouldnt kick his ass ot make myself feel better or get revenge. hell if the cops got him that is good enough for me. But the cops cant and wont always be there when you need em. its impossible, that and they have bigger things to worry about.(rightfully so). like others have said, insurance...sure after a deductible, how about the amount of time it takes to deal with it? how about the hassle of trying to get it back to that state? how about the inconveniance of having to deal with it irght at that moment? I am sorry life is too short and i have been way to close to death on too many occasions to not look at it that way. time is precious and i will not let some asshole take "time" from me, just because he feels like it without reprocutions.

those of you that have the life, time and the means to not let somehting like that bother you, if you are never in that situation or you just dont care...i am happy for you, but its not reality in alot of places or for me. wish it was...

and now just to sound schizo. if the dude said sorry and offered to pay for it, or it was an honest accident and he was apologetic, i would probably let it go depending on the amount of damage. but if he got lippy or belligerent with me i wouldnt feel bad about causing them some pain. hell i would get some sort of payment from them weather they liked it or not. they will suffer the loss of time i had just suffered. its principle.

those of you who say "i will just call the authorities" and what not, that is such the victim mentallity, wait for someone else to come and make things right. like i said before if you can get the cops there and they can completely fix it for you....great, but what if they cant and you have the ability to try and at least make it right even if by force?.

its not a maturity thing, or emotional stability thing (at least in my case, but i can see what others are saying). and you have to be careful and be prepared for the worst (them having guns or friends etc etc).

but this self righteuos " I wouldnt assualt anybody" bullshit (if the shoe fits...). if you cant handle it on your own and you are willing to eat it....so be it, but dont talk down to those of us who wont stand for behaivor towards us

rant off

Not beating the crap out of the guy is not the same as what DC is advocating. I still say it's just a motorcycle.

--Chris

I don't think this is about what is in the article any more since we really don't know what happened there.

--Chris

i want sayng it was.
you might see it as just a motorcycle i see it as alot of time spent away from my family working to earn that money. I like my family, i chose to do it (work) and i chose to buy the bike becasue it brings me some happiness and enjoyment, one of the few things i have besides my family that does that. so i get a little bitter about it. not vengeful or insanely angry, but i cant and wont let it slide if it was in a beligerent manner

lke i said before if he offered to fix it, or it was a legitimate accident, so be it, shit happens. i understand that....sometimes you just get unlucky...that is what insurance is for, not becasue some ass was drunk, angry or whatever, then most likely beligerent....

is it worth a mans life? most would say no.....i say its situational, but law and belief would prevent me from acting that way. if a man has that much blantant disrespect for another mans (or womans) property, why should i have any respect for his well being? its a dog eat dog world and everyone IS out to get you in a manner of speaking...is it worth an ass whooping...again situational. but in alot of circumstances...yes

these recent post may not be relevant because we dont know what happened, but it has brought up some interesting discussion and personal beliefs....

smackie, I was just commenting in general since we really don't know what happened in this case, who did what to the bike and why, and why the guy died. The discussion has turned into what people would do if someone damaged their bike, in general.

--Chris

shit like that makes me sick....


but this self righteuos " I wouldnt assualt anybody" bullshit (if the shoe fits...). if you cant handle it on your own and you are willing to eat it....so be it, but dont talk down to those of us who wont stand for behaivor towards us



exactly...

oh and chris, this has EVERYTHING to do with the article...its what we would/wouldn't do...just because there is a slight difference of opinion between some of us, doesnt mean its totally unrelated.

I bought my sportster with cash that I saved from when I was in Iraq...I literally risked my life to buy that bike...and if someone decides to kick it over on purpose and act all belligerent, they are more than likely doing the same

I meant only that I don't think we really know the story with this incident in Texas. We don't have the details. The newspaper has changed the story twice and I think there's a new headline on the old story now.

So it's a good discussion, but I don't think we can debate this situation since we don't really know what happened.

We can debate what any of us will do when someone kicks over out bike, sure.

--Chris

I bought my sportster with cash that I saved from when I was in Iraq...I literally risked my life to buy that bike...and if someone decides to kick it over on purpose and act all belligerent, they are more than likely doing the same


that is where a bulk of my money for my bike came from as well.....
maybe that is the reason for the similar thought process on this;)

that is where a bulk of my money for my bike came from as well.....
maybe that is the reason for the similar thought process on this;)

makes sense...I guess if everyone had to do the same thing, some perspectives would change...

agreed,
almost dying...alot, makes some things a little more valuable.
if you wouldnt have said that I probably would have left that fact alone. i have put a bunch of money into my bike since i got out that wasnt from there and i was honestly thinking of that and what i did to get that money.

was wondering why this whole bothered me so much. this bike was intially paid for with so much more.