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Vegas1200C
21st July 2007, 15:39
I want to get an idea of what bikes are having this problem. I have an 04 Custom that the axle was severely rusted in. Have you had this problem and when when was your bike made.

Quebeker
21st July 2007, 15:48
I have an 05 and while it wasnt stuck, it wasnt easy.

It was starting to rust and needed some "help" to come out but I didnt swear too much. But then again I had read some stuff about that here and decided to do a preventive lube job.

Vegas1200C
21st July 2007, 15:50
Just to make it clear, you should never have to more than "gently tap" any axle out. If you need more than tapping, there is something wrong. Quebeker, yours would have probably been a problem and shouldn't have. No rust is good rust.

drick
21st July 2007, 15:50
I have a 2002 xl, last year I had to replace the rear fender wiring, I removed the rear tire and fender, I had to use my air hammer and tap it out. I soaked it with Kroil penetrant, after the axle moved about 1/2 of an inch it came out easily. I just barely tapped it with the air hammer. Before I installed it again I removed the rust and coated with anti-seize. my front is probably the same...

OutlawTexan67
21st July 2007, 15:55
I have an Ironhead and dont know if this is a problem with them but when I assemble the axle I always spay a little aluminium base anti-sieze on the axle and so far I have always been able to pull my axle out with my hand.I dont use the copper base anti-sieze as it gets thick and doesnt protect as long as the aluminum based stuff.

Vegas1200C
21st July 2007, 15:59
I have an Ironhead and dont know if this is a problem with them but when I assemble the axle I always spay a little aluminium base anti-sieze on the axle and so far I have always been able to pull my axle out with my hand.I dont use the copper base anti-sieze as it gets thick and doesnt protect as long as the aluminum based stuff.

Not a problem at all. This is what should happen. Tap, tap and it falls out, every couple years unless you leave it rot. Sorry about not including pre 2000 but it seems to be a later model issue and anything before 2000 probably isn't on anything near original rubber.

Turbota
21st July 2007, 16:38
I just disassembled my whole bike (04 1200R) for shipment in boxes to the Philippines.

I had a problem removing the rear axle too. Come to find out the center area of the axle has corrosion on it (and the bike was used in dry Arizona)

Anyway, I will buff up the axle with a wire brush wheel on my drill to remove the corrosion and apply a light coat of wheel bearing grease to the axle before re-installing it. That should keep it from corroding again. The factory never put a light coating of grease on it during manufacture ... the center area was very dry.

torxster
21st July 2007, 16:52
Yep, mine corroded.

You can read more than you want about it here. (http://xlforum.net/vbportal/forums/showthread.php?t=39097)

pquirk
21st July 2007, 22:59
I had to persuade mine to come out with a big punch and a hammer. It was pretty boogered up. I cleaned it up with a wire wheel and but some antisieze on it before reassembly. BTW, why did you ask what ECM people are running? Seems like a weird question to ask in a poll about siezed axles. :)

Vegas1200C
22nd July 2007, 00:20
BTW, why did you ask what ECM people are running? Seems like a weird question to ask in a poll about siezed axles. :)

Another member I talked to was able to "gently tap" his axle out like the manual says after 2 years of riding. His bike was made after the ECM upgrade so I'm trying to see if maybe it isn't an issue with bikes made halfway through 2005 or if it just random between all the 2000 and up bikes. I believe another member mentioned somewhere that they didn't have enclosed bearings until 2000 and that is when the problem started.

xllent01
22nd July 2007, 00:21
To my knowledge this has been an on going problem with all bikes since the switched to sealed bearings in late 99, doesen't matter what year they are all are effected to some point or another unless you been lucky enough to catch it early or been advised to lube axle with anti-sieze or some kinda bearing grease before the problem gets worse.

Which i've choosen as part of simple maintinence program since day one without any problems on the Sporty or any other bike i've ever owned.


BTW-according to the 2000-2001 FM page 2-16, #2 chassis it clearly states " APPLY ANTI-SIEZE LUBRICANT TO AXLE"

XLXR
22nd July 2007, 00:41
Many years ago I had a stuck axle and enlisted my good friends Jack Daniels and BFH (the B stands for big and the H stands for hammer) to get it out. The job was going on for a few hours when a friend of a friend brought over a friend who happened to be a Nun. About 10 minutes later, that Nun ran out of the house thinking the the garage was possesed by demons and heathens.

gronk62
22nd July 2007, 09:36
Sometimes I get ideas that just pop into my head. Most are just BS but sometimes I think I'm onto something.

Here's my thoughts on this corroding axle issue.

Water obviously finds its way into the wheel between the bearing and axle.

If one were to put the axle spacers in a lathe and cut a small chamfer on the inside edge of one end it would allow room for an O ring to be wedged between the spacer, bearing and axle creating an effective seal to prevent any water from finding its way in.

Just thinking out aloud......

XLXR
22nd July 2007, 16:24
That might work in keeping water from getting inside, but it will still rust around the bearing races which is where it locks itself into place. The real problem is cheap metal, lack of grease, and HD not letting people know about the problem in a sevice recall.

ReddTigger
22nd July 2007, 16:37
.........and yet another reason that I am soooooo Happy with my 97..

Now if they would only make reasonable priced wheels for it......

I've never had a problem getting my axle out, as long as the weight of the wheel is carried by something (block of wood) I Can pull it out by hand, no tapping needed.

I realize this is a problem with 2000+ models, but I wanted to reiterate that the pre 2000 are smooth as silk. :D

xllent01
22nd July 2007, 16:53
Nothing wrong with sealed bearings!!! God sakes why do people need the Mo-Co to hold there hands?????? :laugh :p


People just need to maintain them :doh :doh :doh just like an oil change, get in the habit of lubing those axles and being "Stuck" won't be an issue!!!

Gone
22nd July 2007, 20:18
Nothing wrong with sealed bearings!!! God sakes why do people need the Mo-Co to hold there hands?????? :laugh :p


People just need to maintain them :doh :doh :doh just like an oil change, get in the habit of lubing those axles and being "Stuck" won't be an issue!!!

Absolutely!

XLXR
23rd July 2007, 05:25
Because most people don't have as much experience as some of use do. We all learn the hard way sometimes.

Vegas1200C
23rd July 2007, 05:57
We removed the axle from an 05 "A" ECM to do some preventative maintenance and found that the center between the bearings had been lubed but not from the bearings out. Now the question is when did they start putting lube on the axle. Mine was bone dry all the way across. His axle was corroded where it met the bearings and in another year or so would have been stuck. As it was it didn't slide right out but wasn't too difficult to tap out.

The real issue here is not only the fact that lubing the rear axle (on the rubber mount at least) is not part of routine maintenance as laid out by the manual. The other issue is the lack of lube from the factory. It isn't an issue of experience as most motorcycles produced never have a problem with corrosion between tire changes. Part of the reason for creating this poll was to get everyones attention to the problem before it is too late.

For the record, after 3 days of soaking the axle in Liquid Wrench the left side bearing didn't allow any soak through what so ever. The right side seemed to get a little through. The bearings weren't stuck as much as the center spacer was.

humpbackbob
17th November 2007, 06:33
I have an 05 and while it wasnt stuck, it wasnt easy.

It was starting to rust and needed some "help" to come out but I didnt swear too much. But then again I had read some stuff about that here and decided to do a preventive lube job.

Ditto, but mines an 06. Few whacks with a 4 pound sledge hammer on a wood block shifted it. Rust was only just starting and cleaned off completely. Lubbed it up good when I reinstalled it.

Hot Rod Sporty
17th November 2007, 06:36
Perhaps it wasn't such a bad idea to pay the dealer to mount, balance, and install my new tires....:smoke

hoosier xlc
3rd December 2007, 12:14
Because most people don't have as much experience as some of use do. We all learn the hard way sometimes.

Only one way to get experience.

Hooty:smoke

Folkie
9th February 2008, 20:02
When I changed my tyres at just under 9,000 miles, the axle was stuck in place and took a fair amount of work to free it. The bike was made in late 2004: post the ECM upgrade.

MadMax25
10th February 2008, 01:45
Sometimes I get ideas that just pop into my head. Most are just BS but sometimes I think I'm onto something.

Here's my thoughts on this corroding axle issue.

Water obviously finds its way into the wheel between the bearing and axle.

If one were to put the axle spacers in a lathe and cut a small chamfer on the inside edge of one end it would allow room for an O ring to be wedged between the spacer, bearing and axle creating an effective seal to prevent any water from finding its way in.

Just thinking out aloud......


Hi Gronk62...
That's an interesting idea. Is there any reason why
the part of the shaft between the two sections that go into the bearings on either side
couldn't be made a slightly smaller diameter. It does seem from reading
that the part of the shaft in the bearing is protected.
If the center portion of the shaft was let's say, a sixteenth inch
smaller diameter, then the surface rust on that exposed section
would be less of an issue.
Why not just get a machine shop to duplicate the existing shaft
out of stainless steel? 316 grade stainless is very resistant to corrosion.
Am I way off the mark with my comments?

theoldog
10th February 2008, 15:42
The first rear tire replacement I had done at the dealer-they had a hard time getting it off (04 883). Since then I have always taken the wheel off myself-and ALWAYS use anti sieze as the manual recomends, and have never had a problem in almost 50,000 miles.

dave
11th February 2008, 19:23
I had to pound the livin' s&#*t out of my axle to get it out the first time. Lots of surface corrosion. I have had it out several times since then (tire change), and never had a problem because I liberally coated it with anti-seize compound.

tom.jetty
10th September 2008, 21:43
My 04 sporty had the problem, and I just changed the wheel on my 07 soft tail - It too was dry. Impact wrench on right side & BFH on left.

Folkie
10th September 2008, 22:06
My 04 sporty had the problem, and I just changed the wheel on my 07 soft tail - It too was dry. Impact wrench on right side & BFH on left.Huh? Not BFH on impact wrench?

Urrell
10th September 2008, 22:26
2005 1200 C
I was worried after reading about these problems.

Changed my tyres a couple of weeks ago (First new set for bike) and both axles pushed out with my finger. Needed no tapping at all. Covered with a sticky green translucent grease.

Axles reassembled with Castrol CL Grease.

justdrew
11th September 2008, 15:21
I had to beat the axle so hard that I destroyed it in the process.
A can of Deep creep over a period of days didn't make the slightest bit of difference.
I have to add that this bike has seen plenty of rain over the years.
Probably messed up the bearings in the process, but I was changing out the rear wheel anyhow.
---Roadwinder wheels and Avon Venoms 8-]
This was at about 10,000 miles on a 2003 and the first time I had pulled it.
Completely dry and rusty as all get out.
I've never had a problem with the front, although I pulled that pretty soon after I got the bike.

Lots of anti seize and never a problem since.

goatman67
11th September 2008, 20:57
Yep....it was rusted in good....took an air hammer to get it out.

got a new one and greased it up before install, hopefully the front and my softail

dosen't have the same prob.

buckhorns
12th September 2008, 17:26
I replaced the front wheel with a 19" cast and replaced both tires at the same time at around 9000 miles. Had to tap the rear axle out, not too bad, but no rust. Used anti-seize liberally when replacing them.
:whisper

River Runner
23rd September 2008, 14:03
I have a 2002, 8700 miles, I've owned it for 3 weeks. I couldn't get it out, used a hammer with a block of hard wood. It didn't budge. Penetrating oil before I turned in. Tried again this am.. didn't budge :doh

From reading here, I should keep adding penetrating oil over the course of a couple days and keep trying until it breaks free. I really would like to avoid damaging things. Is this possible with the force needed to break this loose? It sounds like you really have to hammer on it sometimes.

So much for a simple tire change!

Folkie
23rd September 2008, 14:22
Welcome to the Forum River Runner!

Good luck with that axle.

dave
23rd September 2008, 19:04
I have a 2002, 8700 miles, I've owned it for 3 weeks. I couldn't get it out, used a hammer with a block of hard wood. It didn't budge. Penetrating oil before I turned in. Tried again this am.. didn't budge :doh

From reading here, I should keep adding penetrating oil over the course of a couple days and keep trying until it breaks free. I really would like to avoid damaging things. Is this possible with the force needed to break this loose? It sounds like you really have to hammer on it sometimes.

So much for a simple tire change!I tried a block of wood too. That didn't work. Next, I used a socket extension and starting pounding - kind of gently at first, and then as hard as I could. It *finally* came out. The socket extension took damage, and the end of the axle was just slightly deformed (still perfectly serviceable).

I cleaned the corrosion off the axle and put a thin coat of anti-seize on it. I have had the axle out a bunch of times since then, and now it just slides out (I always recoat with anti-seize before it goes back in).

I do not understand how the factory could have overlooked this! And they still don't put anything - not even grease - on the axle, I think....

xllent01
23rd September 2008, 19:09
I tried a block of wood too. That didn't work. Next, I used a socket extension and starting pounding - kind of gently at first, and then as hard as I could. It *finally* came out. The socket extension took damage, and the end of the axle was just slightly deformed (still perfectly serviceable).

I cleaned the corrosion off the axle and put a thin coat of anti-seize on it. I have had the axle out a bunch of times since then, and now it just slides out (I always recoat with anti-seize before it goes back in).

I do not understand how the factory could have overlooked this! And they still don't put anything - not even grease - on the axle, I think....

Can't blame the MoCo..it clearly states in the factory manual to use anti-sieze on the axle..problem is too many people let the issue go far to long before they ever relize it becomes an issue that is easily cured or prevented had they just read the FM from the begginning...

junk runner jr
23rd September 2008, 19:26
Mine is a 2007. this spring at 9000 miles I needed to replace the rear tire. This was my first time removeing the rear wheel and was leary about realy hitting it. I tried tapping it out with a dead blow hammer but got no where. I was concerned there was some sort of retainer I was not seeing. After talking to the service tech at the dealer he said go ahead and smack it. I went with a large punch and a five pound sledge. Once I got it moving it came out no problem. There was some surface rust on the axel but no severe pitting. A little Scotch bright and solvent polished it up good. When replacing it I lubed it up good with some antisieze and slid it back in. While I had it apart I took the opportunity to paint the wheel spacers to clean up the rear end some. Before every tie I looked at the rear wheel I was disgusted with the scaley galvanizing on the spacers. Now with them painted black you don't even notice they are there.

jimmyess333
23rd September 2008, 20:08
I have an 06 883 Standard no no axle issue.
I changed my tires in 07 to something I liked better and the rear axle slid out easily.
I even reversed it so the exhaust won't be in the way next time.
There was a light coating of grease on the entire axle when I pulled it.

Terp84Alum
23rd September 2008, 20:13
'02-had to beat mine out with a brass drift and a bmf hammer. I used anti-seize when I put it back together. Who knows if that solves the problem.

dave
23rd September 2008, 21:02
Can't blame the MoCo..it clearly states in the factory manual to use anti-sieze on the axle..problem is too many people let the issue go far to long before they ever relize it becomes an issue that is easily cured or prevented had they just read the FM from the begginning...I must be missing something....

Yes, it clearly states in the factory manual to use anti-seize on the axle. And yet the MoCo does NOT do this during original assembly. When I pulled my axle the first time (when I was changing a tire), there was *zero* anti-seize/grease/whatever on the axle. It was bone dry, and corrosion had clearly started.

So please explain to me why I can't blame the factory for not following their own procedures... ??

cootertwo
23rd September 2008, 21:21
Yes, my 06 was stuck. Beat it out, never seized it, and back together. However, if I had to do it again on a stuck one, I believe it's only the spacers that are stuck to the axle, so I would try using "Blaster" on the spacers/axle, and then try holding the spacers with a pair of channel locks, and wiggling the axle back and forth with a wrench. I think that you could eventually break the spacers loose, and then the axle would tap out. I'll let you know, if I get a chance to try it out.

xllent01
23rd September 2008, 21:24
I must be missing something....

Yes, it clearly states in the factory manual to use anti-seize on the axle. And yet the MoCo does NOT do this during original assembly. When I pulled my axle the first time (when I was changing a tire), there was *zero* anti-seize/grease/whatever on the axle. It was bone dry, and corrosion had clearly started.

So please explain to me why I can't blame the factory for not following their own procedures... ??
You own the bike..or made payments on it right...NO??

Why does everyone in America play the blame game...you ride it.. you maintain it...or one would hope...sorry man but if your waiting on the MoCo to resolve the issue you will certainly be sorely dis-appointed along with alot of others who've run into your exact situation with a stuck axle...

Problem is....People just need to maintain them :doh :doh :doh just like an oil change, get in the habit of lubing those axles and being "Stuck" won't be an issue!!!

Folkie
23rd September 2008, 21:38
The trouble is that the first time most people need to take the axle out is when changing the rear tyre. By then it's well stuck.

dave
23rd September 2008, 21:57
You own the bike..or made payments on it right...NO??

Why does everyone in America play the blame game...you ride it.. you maintain it...or one would hope...sorry man but if your waiting on the MoCo to resolve the issue you will certainly be sorely dis-appointed along with alot of others who've run into your exact situation with a stuck axle...

Problem is....People just need to maintain them :doh :doh :doh just like an oil change, get in the habit of lubing those axles and being "Stuck" won't be an issue!!!I'm not talking about properly maintaining the axle. I'm talking about the factory not using anti-seize on the axle *during assembly*. The stuck axle problem only happens *once* - the first time the rear tire is changed. During the tire change, the manual calls for coating the axle with anti-seize, so once this is done, the problem is gone forever.

I think the factory owes you proper assembly for your money (and I am sure the factory would agree). The factory manual says to use anti-seize on the axle, and the factory does *not do this* during assembly. You seem to suggest that I should have removed the rear axle shortly after I bought it to make sure it was properly assembled. What else should I have done - break down the engine to make sure all the gaskets are in there?

I certainly did not "wait for the MoCo to resolve the problem". I found the problem (their problem), and I fixed it.

Removing/inspection the axle and coating it with anti-seize is not on any maintenance schedule (at least, not on a 2004 bike). And doing this at every oil change as you suggest is not necessary. Doing it when the tire is replaced is plenty often enough.

xllent01
23rd September 2008, 22:45
Noboby's telling you to tear down your whole bike...if you been around bikes long enough you know certain things like axles DON'T MIX in certain enviromental conditions...:o


You seem to suggest that I should have removed the rear axle shortly after I bought it to make sure it was properly assemblied


No..i'm saying you shouldv'e made sure the axle had the proper anti-sieze coated on it.. NO ONE was aware or experienced enough to even relize it...:( so no shame on that, just a hard lesson learned, or one would hope..

I certainly did not "wait for the MoCo to resolve the problem". I found the problem (their problem), and I fixed it.


If your waiting on the Moco you will be sadly dis-appointed...so kudos to you for taking the effort to resolve the issue on your own..


Removing/inspection the axle and coating it with anti-seize is not on any maintenance schedule (at least, not on a 2004 bike). And doing this at every oil change as you suggest is not necessary. Doing it when the tire is replaced is plenty often enough.

Well now that you got stuck...don't you think it should...even if the maintinence schedule doesen't call for it..:doh

I never mentioned every oil change....re-read the post slowly so you can fully understand.. Make lubing the axles a habit like an oil change and being "Stuck" won't ever be an issue again

Frankly...Once a year would be suffice...specially in the winter time when the bike is mostly parked for those who live in colder climates anyhow...or atleast during annual tire changes....LOL

dave
23rd September 2008, 23:38
No..i'm saying you shouldv'e made sure the axle had the proper anti-sieze coated on it.."No.." - I don't have to remove it? How would I know if the factory initially applied anti-seize to the axle without removing it?

If the factory manual says that anti-seize is to be applied to the axle, I expect it to be there when I first pick up my brand-new bike. I should not have to disassemble it to prove that true or false. I also expect oil to be in the forks, seals and gaskets to be in place, rings to be on the pistons, valves in the head, etc. This is "assembly", and should be done correctly by the factory.NO ONE was aware or experienced enough to even relize it...Well, that's sorta my point - you shouldn't have to be aware of it - it should have been there in the first place.:( so no shame on that, just a hard lesson learnedHmm. Not sure what the "lesson" is - except to not believe or trust that the MoCo assembled everything to spec.Well now that you got stuck...don't you think it should...even if the maintinence schedule doesen't call for it..:dohAbsolutely, but not as part of a maintenance schedule. I have replaced the rear tire (about four times, I think), and the axle came out easily and still had (my) anti-seize on it. Re-coating as part of the tire changing process seems to work just fine.I never mentioned every oil change....re-read the post slowly so you can fully understand.. Make lubing the axles a habit like an oil change and being "Stuck" won't ever be an issue againI re-read it extra specially slowly, and it still sounds like you're recommending axle maintenance along with oil changes. But no matter, I know what you mean.Frankly...Once a year would be suffice...specially in the winter time when the bike is mostly parked for those who live in colder climates anyhow...or atleast during annual tire changes....LOLWell, laughing aside, I only get about a year from a tire (I ride a lot). :tour

River Runner
24th September 2008, 03:06
I have a 2002, 8700 miles, I've owned it for 3 weeks. I couldn't get it out, used a hammer with a block of hard wood. It didn't budge. Penetrating oil before I turned in. Tried again this am.. didn't budge :doh

From reading here, I should keep adding penetrating oil over the course of a couple days and keep trying until it breaks free. I really would like to avoid damaging things. Is this possible with the force needed to break this loose? It sounds like you really have to hammer on it sometimes.

So much for a simple tire change!

Letting the penetrating oil soak in over 24 hours with a couple applications seemed to work. I gave it a couple smacks with a 3 pound hammer and the piece of wood (Cherry seems to work well :rolleyes:) I was a little more aggressive based on some posts here and was pleasantly surprised when it broke free. I then made a quick trip to the local auto parts store for a 10 inch socket extension as others suggested using to drive it the rest of the way through. It got much easier as it went along.

I took some pictures of the axle which I can't post until I have 15 posts? If anyone wants to take a look send me a pm with your e-mail.

This place is great. I'm sure I would have given in and resorted to taking it to the local HD dealer had I not found all of the advice on the subject. It would be great to have a post with a list of all the known issues like this with links to their discussion. Does such a list exist or is it best just to use the search function?

River Runner
24th September 2008, 03:13
Yes, my 06 was stuck. Beat it out, never seized it, and back together. However, if I had to do it again on a stuck one, I believe it's only the spacers that are stuck to the axle, so I would try using "Blaster" on the spacers/axle, and then try holding the spacers with a pair of channel locks, and wiggling the axle back and forth with a wrench. I think that you could eventually break the spacers loose, and then the axle would tap out. I'll let you know, if I get a chance to try it out.

In my case the spacers were completely free of corrosion and spun freely on the axle. Between the bearings is where all the rust was.

dave
24th September 2008, 15:59
Letting the penetrating oil soak in over 24 hours with a couple applications seemed to work.Yay!!! And welcome to the forum! Glad you got it out okay. I never tried penetrating oil and time.This place is great. I'm sure I would have given in and resorted to taking it to the local HD dealer had I not found all of the advice on the subject. It would be great to have a post with a list of all the known issues like this with links to their discussion. Does such a list exist or is it best just to use the search function?I'm pretty sure no such list exists, but most of the forums have a "sticky" section with common topics/issues for the subject of that forum.

rbcss
3rd October 2008, 11:12
yep, mine got stuck about the last 3" had to hit it pretty hard to get it out. had to sand the sleeve with emery cloth to smooth it out. the factory doesn't lube them very well. I was told a while ago to lube up the axles because the factory hardly lubes them up very well. when I went from my 21' front tire to a 19" the front was pretty dry also. I lube it up with anti-seize, but was meaning to lube the rear but never did. when I put new tires on last week the back axle looked like it got hot for lack of lube, and like I said before the sleeve had some grooves in it, but was able to sand them out.
don't be shy to lube the axles well. I didn't put so much that the anti-seize was leaking out but I was liberal with it.