Hi all.

OK, as we have ben talking about oil filters lately, I now have more info that I need to tell you all, and hopefully i can save you engine.

I have ben searching the web for a Mobil 1 oil filter for my bike, but I was not able to find a listing in a Catalog, just a couple web pages that showed two different numbers, a M1-102 and a M1-301.
I tried a M1-102(Cost me 10.95) and I started the engine, I notice that the pressure was 5 to 10 pounds higher then before with the Wix.
Harleys oil pressure port in between the pump and the filter, so the reading is BEFORE it gets into the filter, so the higher reading was because the filter was restrickive.
I also looked into the oil tank to see if it was flowing, the flow was very slow, after a short ride, the engine was hot, but the oil was not getting hot.
So I shut it down, and replace the filter again with a Wix 51215.

I called up Mobil and asked if I had the wrong filter, they told me that they do not sell motorcycle filters, and were not sure if it would work on my bike. They do not make these filters, so he gave me the number for Champion filters(They make Mobiles filters, and STP's).
I got to talk to one of there engineers, and this is what he told me.

Do not use this filter on a motorcycle. It does not have the right by-pass or flow rate, and if it damages your engine, you are on your own.
He then suggested the STP motorcycle filter as a sutable one.

After work today, I had a chance to talk with a tech friend of mine, Harley Bob at Paridice Harley. He not only has 45 years as a harley Mechanic, he has a 2001 1200s that he drag races, and runs high 10's, he I trust.
I asked him about this filter and this what he told me.

If a bike comes in with non harley filter and has a engine failure, they will check the filter numberm if it is not a Motorcycle filter, they can, and most likely will cancil the warranty.
The uses of a Automotive filter is outside of that fed law that lets you use an aftermarket filter, You can only if it is oked for that vehical.

Lastly, my Fram rep called on me, and had a CH6065a in hand, and we cut it open at work this lunch, you may remember that I told him my disapointment with my last filter, well, the chrome one(The CH6065A is the chrome one) still has all metal cap ends a a good solid well spaced filter eliment, so this is not what I have seen on those web sight, he said there showing there budjet filters, use the chrome ones and you should be ok.

The bottom line is, don't beleive these web sights as they can leed you down the wrong road, and don't use a car filter on your bike, If it costs you a engine, you will be all aloan with a dead motor.

good info

I only use motorcycle filters after losing an engine many years ago to an auto/car filter breaking up


I use american made PERFORM filters...not cheap...but a DAMN sight cheaper than an engine rebuild

This is good to know. Thanks for the info.

A couple of months ago, AIM published a story about oil filters, they made this out as a "modern discovery" stating that the oil filter bypass valve, well, works.

In a past life, I was an ASE CERT'd mechinic for over 8 years, started out at the local gas station, and ended up as specialist in Ford electronic controls.

Not sure which is worse - oil filters or oil.... Both seem to raise everyone's blood pressure.....

I want to keep this up front so all can see it.

I want to keep this up front so all can see it.
I believe this is very good advice for all members who are contemplating changing to a different brand filter.

I have always used the standard OE HD filters, not because I think they are the best, but simply because I don't know enough about the alternatives available.

Jeffy, I'm gunna make this a "sticky" so it stays at the top for all to read.

Thanx for the great advice :clap

good stuff to know...

Thanks Jeffytune!!!! Great informative stuff. If it saves ONE engine..it's well worth it. :clap Don't try to save a buck just to lose a motor... :smoke

I use purolator ml16822. It is motorcycle specific plus has a anti-drain back valve.

I use purolator ml16822. It is motorcycle specific plus has a anti-drain back valve.


Hey 883 Custom.

Not a Problem, as long as it is a motorcycle filter, then Harley and Purilator will stand behind it if it fails. The problem is that there is all these web sight that show the car filter that can fit, but since they have not ben tested to work on your bikes engine. If it's too restickive, you can strave your engine to death.

A Harley filter is only 10 bucks and gets changed every 3000 or so. Why not just buy the filter for the bike. That is not the end of the world. I work for GM and have a bazillion ACDelco filters at my disposal but never even considered using one. Not worth the ten dollar lesson. I got my lesson with a new oil tank,. Another story for another time.

Thanks JeffyTune. Being a stubborn cuss, I have been using Purolator's Pure One PL10241. I spoke with their applications engineer and he assured me that the bypass psi was the same as their motorcycle specific ML16822. The media and anti-drainback valve is better on the PureOne. I would not anticipate any problems due to the filter.
However, your point about warranty issues is very well taken and this would be a legitimate loophole to avoid a warranty claim. I will be going back to a motorcycle-specific filter for this reason.

Kim

A Harley filter is only 10 bucks and gets changed every 3000 or so. Why not just buy the filter for the bike. That is not the end of the world. I work for GM and have a bazillion ACDelco filters at my disposal but never even considered using one. Not worth the ten dollar lesson. I got my lesson with a new oil tank,. Another story for another time.
Quick ,tell us the story,What happen with your oilbagg--PM me

A couple of months ago, AIM published a story about oil filters, they made this out as a "modern discovery" stating that the oil filter bypass valve, well, works.

In a past life, I was an ASE CERT'd mechinic for over 8 years, started out at the local gas station, and ended up as specialist in Ford electronic controls.

Not sure which is worse - oil filters or oil.... Both seem to raise everyone's blood pressure.....

Gam.. the AIM article was written by Donny Peterson @ Heavy Duty Cycles. All his tech articles are excellent and informative. Gronk should make a sticky out of the link to his Evo Tech page.

http://www.heavydutycycles.com/evotecq.htm

Quick ,tell us the story,What happen with your oilbagg--PM me


here's a link to ralphs tale of woe



http://www.xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=351&page=1&highlight=tank

We have a 1990 toyota pickup that has the inline 4 in her (22RE). It looks exactly like the Sportster oil filter. Well, at least when you are looking through the middle they do. I'll get a hold of a couple filters for the bike and truck and split them open. I would almost swear that they were the same though.

We have a 1990 toyota pickup that has the inline 4 in her (22RE). It looks exactly like the Sportster oil filter. Well, at least when you are looking through the middle they do. I'll get a hold of a couple filters for the bike and truck and split them open. I would almost swear that they were the same though.

It's not that they won't fit, a ford filter and that one for your Toyota will ft, BUT it what's on the inside that makes the difference. A typical automotive oil pump is far larger then the ones on our sportsters, it puts out more volume and pressure, so the Meda has to be made thicker and out of Materials that can withstand it, same goes for the flowback and by-pass valves.
This is why it can starve your engine, by being too restictive, your oil light is inbetween the pump and the filter, so you will not get a low oil pressure warning, but your engine will not be getting the right amount of oil to it.
Most of the Major filter manufactor's all stand behing there filters, if you loose an engine because of a filter failure, MOST will help in the replacement of said engine. BUT if you have a Automotive filter on a motorcyle engine, they will walk away and leave you on your own.

With that said, it is rare that a fitler fails and takes out an engine, i have seen it happen, but I can count it on one hand over the last 27 years.

My point is, use the right filter and you will have one less thing to worry about.

Why do people feel they need to canbalize parts that dont
fit or perform correctly for there needs? All to save 3 dollars.

JT i'm glad you caught your mistake of saving a dollar before
your motor imploded. The right filter only costs 10 dollars, which
is better than a $3000 dollar oops for a repair bill from your dealer
or local indy.

Yes dont get me wrong, we all are about saving a buck but when
it comes to form over function, give me the part that is meant to
function the best.

Why would you want to use oil or filters not made for you scoot?

I invested alot of money in my sporty and I am not gonna screw it up by using automotive specific oils and filters.

The moblie 1 is NOT made for use on any motorcicle.... :frownthre

and for the price why would you want to use this stuff......

Just so you can save a few (and i mean few) dollars???? :yikes

i hear it all the time...... "hey i just saved 3 bucks on my oil and filter, Oh and I also just got those fancy smancy HD leathers......" jeesh

Where will it end ? (side of road, pushin your sporty in those new leathers) :D

Biggy J
Rollin along with SYN 3 :tour

Why would you want to use oil or filters not made for you scoot?

I invested alot of money in my sporty and I am not gonna screw it up by using automotive specific oils and filters.

The moblie 1 is NOT made for use on any motorcicle.... :frownthre

and for the price why would you want to use this stuff......

Just so you can save a few (and i mean few) dollars???? :yikes

i hear it all the time...... "hey i just saved 3 bucks on my oil and filter, Oh and I also just got those fancy smancy HD leathers......" jeesh

Where will it end ? (side of road, pushin your sporty in those new leathers) :D

Biggy J
Rollin along with SYN 3 :tour


DITTO !!!!!

Why would you want to use oil or filters not made for you scoot?

I invested alot of money in my sporty and I am not gonna screw it up by using automotive specific oils and filters.

Just so you can save a few (and i mean few) dollars???? :yikes


Biggy J
Rollin along with SYN 3 :tour

I agree.

In the old days they had a saying about stuff like this... "Being pennywise and poundfoolish."

Why do people feel they need to canbalize parts that dont
fit or perform correctly for there needs? All to save 3 dollars.

JT i'm glad you caught your mistake of saving a dollar before
your motor imploded. The right filter only costs 10 dollars, which
is better than a $3000 dollar oops for a repair bill from your dealer
or local indy.

Yes dont get me wrong, we all are about saving a buck but when
it comes to form over function, give me the part that is meant to
function the best.

JUst to clairife, these Mobil 1 filters are like 11 bucks, but are some of the best filters you can buy, the correct Wix filter I got from one of my suplyers cost me less then 7.
I went with it to get a permium filter, it's just not good for our bikes.Champ, the company that makes these filters for Mobil, said that they are looking into making a this filter for motorcycles possably for there own line or for STP(they make theres too) but it is only under concideration at this point, it could be months, but more like years or never.

I saw alot of bad info out there on the web, it was when I checked it with the manufactors that I felt I needed to post this, some one here brought the Mobil filter up and said they they were running one on there engine, and that was what got the ball rolling on this hole mess.
11 bucks was a cheap leason to learn, and that's all it cost me, had I done the research first, I would have saved that 11 bucks too.

JUst to clairife, these Mobil 1 filters are like 11 bucks, but are some of the best filters you can buy, the correct Wix filter I got from one of my suplyers cost me less then 7.
I went with it to get a permium filter, it's just not good for our bikes.Champ, the company that makes these filters for Mobil, said that they are looking into making a this filter for motorcycles possably for there own line or for STP(they make theres too) but it is only under concideration at this point, it could be months, but more like years or never.

I saw alot of bad info out there on the web, it was when I checked it with the manufactors that I felt I needed to post this, some one here brought the Mobil filter up and said they they were running one on there engine, and that was what got the ball rolling on this hole mess.
11 bucks was a cheap leason to learn, and that's all it cost me, had I done the research first, I would have saved that 11 bucks too.


It doesn't matter who makes the filter or if it cost's the same
it's not rated for a 49 yr old dinosaur of a motor. Where not talking
turn of the century technoligy
Leave the auto parts for the car repairs, auto parts don't belong
on a motorcycle. In the grand scheme of things why put a inferior
part on something that don't belong.

It' summer time and gheesh the oil threads already started.
Lets save them for winter time. :cry1

As a new owner I have a few questions:

How much is harleys chrome filter and if its the usual outrageous price, where do I find a safe alternative?

I get the chrome h-d 5 1/2" long filter for $8 something. The short hd chrome filters are about the same.

stay away from hiflo/K&N too, read a few stories, one bike lost oil pressure when the bypass valve got clogged or something like that.

Thanks for the advice on the Mobil One oil filter, I'll be sure not to use it.

I have a '05 XL883C. Can anyone tell me the Harley part # for the stock oil filter?

Also, is the oil filter for the 04-05 different from 03 and before? I heard that using a wix/napa filter would be a good idea and that the wix/napa filter did a better job at removing particulates from the oil.

thanks ..

# Purolator PL10241 / PL20064
# Bosch 3330
# AMSOil SMF 133/134/135
# Baldwin B1413
# Fram PH6022, PH6065A
# Hastings LF576
# NAPA 1348
# Purolator ML16822
# WIX 51348
HD 63796-77A
HD 63798-99
HD 63796-77T

Thanks Schmidtrock, I appreciate the list.

I was worried that the older cross referenced filters may not be applicable to the newer sportsters. I'll probably end up using either the HD unit or the Napa filter.

Thanks Schmidtrock, I appreciate the list.

I was worried that the older cross referenced filters may not be applicable to the newer sportsters. I'll probably end up using either the HD unit or the Napa filter.
Nah they didn't make any changes in that department. Good luck. I've started using the FRAM units and have been happy. They even have it chrome.

Go with the "Premium" HD filter, it's worth it. Black or chrome who cares.
Stick an oil cooler on it, at the same time. Jagg makes a good one.

Go with the "Premium" HD filter, it's worth it. Black or chrome who cares.
Stick an oil cooler on it, at the same time. Jagg makes a good one.


Please re-read the opening post.
1) The Premium is a 10 micron filter, the standard is a 30. It was made fir the twin can motor, and I guess if you ran one from day one you would be OK, but if you have ben running a 30 Micro and then switch, you could clog one up fast, and get a low flow through the filter.
Best to stay with the ones that were made for your engine.

2) Oil coolers are fine, as long as you have a thermostat controll for it, otherwise you will get the oil too cold to flow right, and can half strave the engine for oil.

Go with the "Premium" HD filter, it's worth it. Black or chrome who cares.
Stick an oil cooler on it, at the same time. Jagg makes a good one.

The premium filter is no god. It's a 10 micron Twinkey. If I had a Twin Cam I would switch to the 30 micron Sporty filter.
I was breakin in new rings and did 6 oil changes in 1200 mi. I cut each filt open at each oil change. All the break in metal from the rings got caught by the 30's...The 10's picked up NOTHING.

Please re-read the opening post.
1) The Premium is a 10 micron filter, the standard is a 30. It was made fir the twin can motor, and I guess if you ran one from day one you would be OK, but if you have ben running a 30 Micro and then switch, you could clog one up fast, and get a low flow through the filter.
Best to stay with the ones that were made for your engine.

2) Oil coolers are fine, as long as you have a thermostat controll for it, otherwise you will get the oil too cold to flow right, and can half strave the engine for oil.

To be more specific, From the HD catalog for '84 and up XL:

Chrome long filter is 63796-77A $9.25
Black long filter is 63805-80A $6.95
-both 30 micron I guess since they're cheaper

"Super Premium" 10 micron filter replaces 63796-77A or 63805-80A
Chrome 63798-99 $11.95
Black 63731-99 $8.60

I run Amsoil 20W50 and tach it at 3000 all the time so thick oil is not a concern to me this summer. It heats up fine. Feel your primary case sometime. There's nothing to cool it and it is right next door to your crank. When it gets cooler outside I may use a thermostat valve, a manual valve, or stick a leather cover over it.

I think 3 things are most important:
Use the best oil you can
Filter out the most dirt
and keep the temperatures down

I like the "thermal cushion" I get while riding to cope with the meltdown temperatures you run into sitting in traffic. Anything to make my Sportster run better longer.
:clap

Ok, Sportysrock.

I agree, anything we can do to help our Sporties run longer is a good thing.
A thermostat controll valve works by getting the oil up to Op temp(About 160ish) and then directs oil to the cooler.
so you don't need to guess if you need to manualy have to switch a valve or deal with a cover.
Oil works best at the temp the design team built the engine for with the weight they had in mind, with the filter flow at what they designed it for.
Aimsoil has a big following, and well I am sure it a good product, Personally, i use Valvoline Motorcycle oil.
When the oil is like 100* instead of the 160*, the oil will be thicker, thus it will not flow as fast, or get into the tight places as easly as when it is up to temp.
The Thremostat makes sure you only use the cooler when it is needed.
If you are in traffic, you can add a small electric fan to the cooler so the oil will be like a crude cooling system, again, this is a good thing.
The Sportster oiling systen has a two stage pump, opne side pulls oil from the tank into the pump to the filter, the other side pulls oil from the sump area and pushes it to the tank. The real problem (As I see it) is that the oil warning light sensor is in line between the pump output and the filter's intake.
Why is this a problem? Well, if the filter get too restrickive, the pressuser will go up, because the restiction is at the filter, and you engine could stave it self to death before you know there a problem.
The larger (Longer 30 micron) would be a good as you cab have more capasity, and more filteration. The 10 could be to restrictive, and cause more harm then good.

Bottom line, it's your engine, and your money. Just check with the Harley service department to make double sure using that Twin Cam filter will not afect your warranty.

Oil works best at the temp the design team built the engine for with the weight they had in mind, with the filter flow at what they designed it for.
Aimsoil has a big following, and well I am sure it a good product, Personally, i use Valvoline Motorcycle oil.
When the oil is like 100* instead of the 160*, the oil will be thicker, thus it will not flow as fast, or get into the tight places as easly as when it is up to temp.

No longer true..Synthetic has excellent flow at very low temps.




Well, if the filter get too restrickive, the pressuser will go up, because the restiction is at the filter, and you engine could stave it self to death before you know there a problem.

Not true...All filters have a pressure relief valve that will allow the oil to flow (unfiltered) and avoid engine siezure.


The larger (Longer 30 micron) would be a good as you cab have more capasity, and more filteration. The 10 could be to restrictive, and cause more harm then good.

The 30 and the 10 are the same physical size. Neither is larger or smaller that the other. The 10 IS much more restrictive.


Bottom line, it's your engine, and your money. Just check with the Harley service department to make double sure using that Twin Cam filter will not afect your warranty.

Harley service dept's are in denial...I was using Syn Oil for 3 1/2 years when Harley Dealers were telling cust's that it was too slippery and your bearings would spin.
Now they recommend it, but only their own. Also, some Stealers recommend the 10 micron and call it PREMIUM for the Sportster. I told 2 diff dealers that I used two Premium filts while doing a 1200 mi piston break in and they picked up NO METAL AT ALL!!! The stock 30 got about 75% of the metal.
The stealers said that if there was a problem with 10 Mic's the MoCo would have notified them. I wonder what fairy land those guys are living in...........

I've posted it before, and I'll post it again........for everything you always wanted to know about oil, filters, and lubrication but were afraid to ask.......


http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/

I've posted it before, and I'll post it again........for everything you always wanted to know about oil, filters, and lubrication but were afraid to ask.......


http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/

blue.. I just gave that site a quick scan..It's bikes and cars and a lot of discussion...No conclusions...Very confusing.

For oil discussion specific to Harley (Fossil vs Synthetic) I much prefer this site... http://www.heavydutycycles.com/

I use the stock chrome filter but change oil-filter every 2500 mi. Right now I'm using the Syn3 oil but thinking of changing to Amsoil. Why bother worring about filters just change it more often.

You don't need no stinken oil filter! I don't use one with my bike and its never been apart in 35 years...

You don't need no stinken oil filter! I don't use one with my bike and its never been apart in 35 years...Yea, Flathead said he never used one either... I think you need one on the rubber mounts though. Since the engine isn't attached firmly to the stationary frame, the engine shakes all around and all the molecules fall off the inside surfaces of the engine. You need to filter that stuff out somehow :smoke

Gazza

..the engine shakes all around and all the molecules fall off the inside surfaces of the engine. You need to filter that stuff out somehow..
:roflblack :roflblack :roflblack

I stopped by my dealer in Singapore the other day. They have a 10micron filter as STANDARD for the sporty and 5micron filter as the premium.

This doesn't seem to correspond to the discussion here. Any thoughts or comments?

Cheers,

Brett

For what it's worth I ran a bosch 3500 on my 2000 Buell for a number of years with no problems, perhaps I was just lucky.

Jeffytune switched out the Mobil 1 filter for a Wix 51215 which Wix does list as specific for Harley Davidson Motorcycles. But if you go to their web site and check for "all applications" of a 51215 filter, it also is specified for several Ford and Mazda four cylinder car and truck engines. They also give all the specifications on their filters, including size, construction, max flow in gpm, relief valve pressure and micron size. That got me to thinking so I researched their site for other filters with similar specs to the 51215 and found that their replacement filter for a Motorcraft FL400A (Wix 51516) has specs almost indentical to the 51215 but is an inch longer. The applications for the Wix 51516 listed use for Ford/Mercury, Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep, Kubota, Duetz and Onan engines - fours, v-sixes and even one diesel - in all kinds of cars, trucks, compressors, front-end loaders and lawn tractors. Man, that covers a lot of territory - with one filter. So I would conclude that just because a particular oil filter is specified for a four wheeled vehicle, that would not neccessarily rule it out for a two wheeled application. The Wix 51215 as a case on point.

I got that stait out of the Wix catalog, listed for a Harley Davidson 883/1200 sportster.

Would you like the Page Number?

The Point is that there are a number of filters that will screw on a Harley, But they may or may not have the right flow rate, and when it comes down to warranty, IF you have a Non- Motorcycle filter on that engine and it fails, you will find yourself sh!t out of luck, as Harley will say you used an Unapproved filter, and the filter manufacture will say it was never made or sold for use on your motorcycle.
Bottom line, Wix has approved it for a Harley Sportster Engine.

http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilterstudy.html is a very informative site on oil filters.

I've been checking out filters on the NAPA filter web site. Lots of good information. There are several of the NAPA (WIX) filters that have HD listed on the application guide that would normally be considered a car filter.

We have all read these sights, and I look at them like everything I find on the web.
Who wrote it, and who backs it, and will there buy you and engine if it don't work out the way they clame it will?

A replacement engine for a Sportster can run like 5 grand if it grandes.(New flywheel and cases)
So you need to ask yourself, how many oil filters at 3 bucks(For a non aproved car filter) would you have to buy instead of a 10 buck aproved one to save enough to replace an engine.

Well, if you changed your oil at 3000 mile(Instead of the recommended 5000) at 7 dollars a pop, you would have to ride 2,145,000 miles to save 5005.00 dollars.

That is 2,145,000 miles, or 85.8 times around the world.

I think it best to stick with a motorcycle filter, the engine it just to pricy not too.

Nallin Racing makes a filter. Does anyone have any experience with it? I bought one and am just breaking my 1250 conversion in... so I'm wondering.

According to Fram it's the PH6065A that is their chrome oil filter for H-D Sportster. There does not appear to be a CH6065A.

According to Fram their chrome oil filter for H-D Sportster is PH6065A. There does not appear to be a CH6065A in their product line.

I Have A Friend That Runs A Fram PH3600 On His Sporty For Over 20,000 Miles And Has Had No Problems...Also A Dude Posted On The Horse Tech That His Wife Has Used This Same PH3600 For Over Five Years With No Problems.So Who Really Knows?

Think that I will stay with the MOCO filter as I personaly don't have any experience with any others. I have read what some you very knowageable guys have used with good successes, but I'll go my way at least till the warranty is over. Lots of good info though. Thanks !

Hi all.

I got to talk to one of there engineers, and this is what he told me.

Do not use this filter on a motorcycle. It does not have the right by-pass or flow rate, and if it damages your engine, you are on your own.
He then suggested the STP motorcycle filter as a sutable one.


Something to think about:

"Filters also have relief or bypass valves. These valves are set to trigger if the filter element is making too large a pressure drop. Normally, this would be because it is clogged, however on an engine with a very high flow oil pump this can also happen if the oil is very cold. Motorcycles do not have high- flow oil pumps. These relief valves are set for different pressures, and sometimes a tech or mechanic will tell you that it's important that the relief valve have the correct rating. It's not. These valves are very low-precision devices, and their pop- off values are different from each other even in identical filters of the same brand. I have spoken with engineers (not techs) at AMS, Purolator, Mobil, and Champion, and not one of them knows of a single reason why you can't use a car filter on a motorcycle. In fact, not one of them could quote me a single pop-off valve pressure rating off the tops of their heads. They did not consider this an interesting or important topic until I brought it up. When the relief valve is open, the oil is going around the filter element and not being filtered at all. If your relief valve ever opens up you're either using a really cheap oil on a really cold day, or you haven't changed your oil filter since the last time you saw Robert E. Lee."
Whole article:
http://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/Filters.html
Ralph

This is just my opinion, so here we go, 20W50 is a thick oil that is ran in a dirty enviorment (an aircooled gas engine), a 30 micron filter sounds about right, as a internal combustion engine makes all kinds of carbon particles all the time and dumps these particles into the oil, My bet is these particles are in the range of five to fifty microns on average, I believe a "true" ten micron filter will crap up and go into bypass mode in short order when used in an engine oil application, also the high delta pressure across a ten micron paper element doesnt make moving oil around your engine any easier. Ten micron filters generally are found in hydraulic systems with very thin oils like MIL H 5606 (about ten weight). I belive the thing to fear is acid formation from condensation, etching your bearings and eating your engine from the inside while your Sportster sits unused for long periods of time... GO RIDE IT:tour

Best Wishes: Mike

It depends on the engine.
The Harley Sportster engine is built to use a 30 Micron, and even a 20 would not be an Issue.

The real problem comes in when a filter fails(And yes, all manufactures have a failure form time to time, some more then others) and if you are using a car filter, well the manufacture will just wash his hands of it saying this filter was not designed for a Motorcycle, and they you are with your blown up 5000 dollar engine, now a paperweight.

My new bike has the Twin cam 96 engine, and Harley's filter for it is a 5 micron with a 60PSI by-pass, they have gone to this because the engine is dirty sensitive, and cam failures can occur from it.
This is a low restriction filter made for Harley by Champion labs, the same company that makes the Mobil one filter, the same low restriction filer media.

So here we have gone in a circle, the filter that started this whole thread a derivative of that filter in now the filter Harley uses on there Twin Cam.

Go Figure, of course it has the by-pass way higher then any car filter, so it's not the same, it just goes to show how technology evolves.

BTW, I hear that Harley is saying you can use the Super 5 on the newer sportster as well.

The debate rages on. I cracks me up how defensive people get over oil and filters. Read the info presented and each to their own I say.

My old Sporty leaked so much oil there was always a fresh supply. It never had time to get dirty or go through a filter.:smoke

Ive believ that evos are filtered on the low pressure side of the system. Mobil one filters are hi-micron, restrictive filters designed for higher pressure. Not only should you use a motorcycle filter....you should use one designed for your motor.

Blah blah blah - I like pissing into the wind. I will be the guinea pig here. Just picked up a M1-301 this morning. I'll be doing my oil/filter change sometime this week. I'll report back on how quickly the stinkin filter destroyed my engine. Hey if it kills it I have an excuse to rebuild it.

Alright - couldn't wait to change the oil / filter. Been using M1 15/50 gold cap and M1 75/90 gear oil and its been great for the last 15,000 miles. During todays oil change I added the M1 103 oil filter that is supposed to kill your engine. Big sucker - I didnt think it would fit but it did. The thing took about 1/2 qt to prime on its own. Went for a 30 mile ride. Engine is nice and quiet as usual after new oil and no problems so far. We will see over this coming week what happens. I should have another 500 miles or so by Friday.

Holy crap I should have listened. Knock, ping, crunch, clank! next thing I know front piston flew out towards the right and into the McDonalds parking lot.

Just kidding people! The bike is perfectly fine so far.

Got back from my lunch ride. Its running great. Actually runs better then before but thats attributed to the nice weather and fresh oil. Oil filter is still filtering (I hope).

I use K&N 171-C.

Holy crap I should have listened. Knock, ping, crunch, clank! next thing I know front piston flew out towards the right and into the McDonalds parking lot.

Just kidding people! The bike is perfectly fine so far.

Got back from my lunch ride. Its running great. Actually runs better then before but thats attributed to the nice weather and fresh oil. Oil filter is still filtering (I hope).

Funny.

I just hope you realize that the majority of your oil is going through the by-pass valve and not being filtered at all.

The Harley super5 (BTW, there both made by champ filter company, same media) has a by-pass set at 60PSI, not the 6-10 that is made for car engines running 5/30 oil.

It's your bike, and your 5k to fix the engine, just know Harley will void your warranty for using a car filter.

Funny.

I just hope you realize that the majority of your oil is going through the by-pass valve and not being filtered at all.

The Harley super5 (BTW, there both made by champ filter company, same media) has a by-pass set at 60PSI, not the 6-10 that is made for car engines running 5/30 oil.

It's your bike, and your 5k to fix the engine, just know Harley will void your warranty for using a car filter.

I'am no expert at oil filters and what pressures different ones are set at but what you said makes me wonder..... I had a ford v-8 that ran about 3 times the oil pressure than my sportster, to round it off lets say my sportster runs about 20psi and the ford about 60psi. Ok thats what makes me wonder if a cars oil filter opens its bypass at 6-10 psi would'nt it open as soon as that 60psi hit it? Like i said i'am expert, i might be looking at it wrong. Help me out.

Funny.

I just hope you realize that the majority of your oil is going through the by-pass valve and not being filtered at all.

The Harley super5 (BTW, there both made by champ filter company, same media) has a by-pass set at 60PSI, not the 6-10 that is made for car engines running 5/30 oil.


Hey I'm sorry if I came across as cocky in my posts before. I was in a very bad mood when I posted. Anyhow, I'm still using the M1-301 filter on my 1200R. I realize that any damage caused by using this filter will be accumulative. The bypass valve issue has me a bit confused. Does anyone know what the standard oil pressure is in sportsters oil lines? I'm trying to find at what psi the bp valve is triggered on the filter I'm using. During my last oil change I ripped the M1 filter open and found a lot of crud in it so I'm guessing it is filtering stuff out but just want to make sure. I like the huge size of the filter itself. It makes me feel better knowing I have almost an extra qt of oil running in the lines and would prefer to keep running the same filter. The bike now has 42K+ miles on the clock and runs as if it was new.

I suppose this is all in the vain of saving a few bucks. I dont understand why some take what to me seems to be an unreasonable chance of engine failure just to save an insignificant amount of money or to be different(better). Everyone has a high mileage vs oil/filter brand story to tell. All vehicle mfg'rs will specify a particular oil/filter for a number of reasons. From an engineering stand point it seems prudent to understand why and follow recommendations with equivelant or higher "quailty" products.

I have seen posts here asking what is the best oil, spark plugs, shocks, tires, air filters, etc. Everyone seems to want what is the best for their Sportster. I don't understand the facination with using something (as critical as an oil filter)that is not designed for use on a motorcycle. Just becasue it fits, doesn't mean it should be used.

Why would anyone want to use a non motorcycle filter on their bike? Even a premium motorcycle filter doesn't cost that much when you consider how often they need to be replaced. Most riders won't think twice about spending $100 bucks a year on bling...... why try to save on an important integral part of the engine?

I suppose this is all in the vain of saving a few bucks. I dont understand why some take what to me seems to be an unreasonable chance of engine failure just to save an insignificant amount of money or to be different(better). Everyone has a high mileage vs oil/filter brand story to tell. All vehicle mfg'rs will specify a particular oil/filter for a number of reasons. From an engineering stand point it seems prudent to understand why and follow recommendations with equivelant or higher "quailty" products.

I have seen posts here asking what is the best oil, spark plugs, shocks, tires, air filters, etc. Everyone seems to want what is the best for their Sportster. I don't understand the facination with using something (as critical as an oil filter)that is not designed for use on a motorcycle. Just becasue it fits, doesn't mean it should be used.

Why would anyone want to use a non motorcycle filter on their bike? Even a premium motorcycle filter doesn't cost that much when you consider how often they need to be replaced. Most riders won't think twice about spending $100 bucks a year on bling...... why try to save on an important integral part of the engine?
And I think these 3 posts sum the issue up perfectly :)

From the 2005 factory manual:

"At 2500 RPM, oil pressure will vary from 10-17 psi. At idle speed (950-1050 RPM), oil pressure will vary from 7-12 psi."

Under normal conditions, the bypass relief valve stays closed. Keep in mind that the bypass relief valve operates based on differential pressure...or the pressure drop incurred by oil flowing through the filter media. Normal differential pressure is only a few psi (1-3), so the valve remains closed. As contaminants increase the differential pressure across the filter media increases as well. When the decrease in flow through the filter media (differential pressure increases) increases to the point specified by the bypass relief valve (typically 8-17 psi), the relief valve will open and continue to supply oil (unfiltered) to the engine. If it did not open, the filter media would either rupture, allowing unfiltered oil, plus all of the "captured" contaminants to circulate through the engine...or if it did not rupture and the bypass relief valve did not open...the engine would starve for oil.

When oil is cold, it has increased viscosity and resistance to flow. It is not uncommon on a cold engine using thick oil, to have the oil filter operate in bypass mode until the oil warms sufficiently to flow through the filter media. This, if it occurs, is only transitory. In sudden acceleration, if the differential pressure across the filter media 'spikes', the bypass relief valve will open for an instant to allow oil (unfiltered) to continue on through the engine. If the valve didn't open, the engine would momentarily 'starve' for oil. Not a good thing.

With reasonably frequent oil changes-the factory interval is fine-most available oil filters are not significantly challenged, contaminant wise, and should offer a good supply of properly filtered oil to the engine.

The topic of oil filters, like other lubrication-related topics, generates an emotional response in many who treasure their machines and want "nothing but the best". I certainly won't argue.

However, I will continue to run lubricants and filters that I consider to be OEM "compatible". I may use a Harley filter-they're good. Or, I might just as well use a Wix, NAPA, Purolator or Super Tech(Wally World-made by Champion with advanced filter media). I have no problem with that.

My .02

Kim

Thunderpaw is correct !
the bypass has nothing to do with engine oil pressure.
Its the difference between inlet and outlet pressure where the bypass opens !
Typically 8 PSI,sometimes as much as 20 PSI
Harleys claims theyre filter is 5 microns,i doubt it
When my warranty is over i will go the NAPA filter which is 24 micron and the same as a Toyota !
Cut open plenty of filters and i can tell you Champ labs builds crap filters !
Thats my..02 !

read my post at rubbermounts !

I only use Amsoil filters and lubes. I started using them and became a dealer. Engine runs cooler and tranny shifts smoother.

Thunderpaw is correct !
the bypass has nothing to do with engine oil pressure.
Its the difference between inlet and outlet pressure where the bypass opens !
Typically 8 PSI,sometimes as much as 20 PSI
Harleys claims theyre filter is 5 microns,i doubt it
When my warranty is over i will go the NAPA filter which is 24 micron and the same as a Toyota !
Cut open plenty of filters and i can tell you Champ labs builds crap filters !
Thats my..02 !

Hi.

Ok, first off, Harley does not require you to use the new Super 5 filter on your Sportster. There are made for the twin cam 88 and 96's. The standard 30 micro is just fine, and so would be a Wix or Napa MOTORCYCLE filter.

As to your claim that champion labs filters are crap, well there are only a handful of filter manufactures, they make filters of varying grades for any different suppliers.
I have seen Wix filters that are first rate, and ones they make for budget lines that are just cheap.

Do not confuse Champion labs with Champion (The spark plug people), they are not the same company.

As to by-pass pressure, you are correct that the relief work off the pressure coming in vs. the out flow pressure.
Car engines (Modern) are made with babbit bearing and designed to use ever lighter oils, 5/20, and now 0/20,

The Harley engine is not a babbit engine, it uses roller caged bearing, this means it will have lower pressure on the outflow side then a babbit engine will.
Further, the oil pressure in will be higher as Harley used 20/50 oil, higher in, lower out = a higher pressure differential needed to maintain filtration.

As too oil pressure, I used to run a oil pressure guage on the dash I made for the 2003, 30-40 pounds was the norm @ 2500 N.O.T.
At an idle, it would drop to 15-10, this is normal for a Sportster.
I do not know where the Sportster filters by-pass is set at, but that is not the point of this thread.

Car filters belong on cars, and motorcycles need motorcycle oil and filters.

I only use Amsoil filters and lubes. I started using them and became a dealer. Engine runs cooler and tranny shifts smoother.

Nothing wrong with using something BETTER then stock, as long as it meets the requirements for the engine.

# Purolator PL10241 / PL20064
# Bosch 3330
# AMSOil SMF 133/134/135
# Baldwin B1413
# Fram PH6022, PH6065A
# Hastings LF576
# NAPA 1348
# Purolator ML16822
# WIX 51348
HD 63796-77A
HD 63798-99
HD 63796-77T

The NAPA filter I have is a 1215. NAPA Gold.
Our salesman at the time told me it was a good filter and was made by WIX.
What is the NAPA 1348? is it a chrome filter or something?
Tony

Edit I found this page on line.
Note that the NAPA 1215 falls under motorcycle Specific, where the NAPA 1348 does not.
I did use the NAPA 1215 at the last oil change. This time I have a Harley filter on it.

http://www.sportster.org/tech/oil_filter_cross_reference.html

HMM !
you have not looked at my oil filter cut aways ?
shame on u !
1225 Napa is the chrome 1215,very nice filter for a hard mount Sporty
Not recomended for a rubber mount but should work fine,does not have the drain back valve
1348 is a Toyota filter,would work fine as well.
1348 is listed as a Harley Filter also
7348 Should be Chrome !
1348 has the drain back valve
see my pix on photobucket,the 1348 is cut open !

Thanks rocketmangb
Yea, That chart I found even said the 1215 was made by WIX .
I have one left here(1215's) I used a chrome Harley one last time.
I want to pick up a few more of the 1215's this week. I like to have a few on hand.
Tony