It was bound to happen....fraudulent charges againest Toyota

[Cosmo Kramer]

I don't know how many of you heard this 911 call from the Prius driver James Sikes....but when I first heard I said I call B.S. on this one:

At 2:58 in the video the 911 Operator asked him if he tried to put it in neutral....his reply "I'm trying to control the car." Then she asks him again....he says "no". "Can you try that?" she asks....and she asks numerous times....no response. In another call with 911 they ask him if he applied the brakes and he said it shudders and feels like it is slipping. No kidding moron....why don't you take your other foot off the gas pedal first!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVCZLfwDV70&feature=related

Now the news is saying that he recently filed for bankruptcy and is 5 payments behind on said Prius. What a P.O.S.....if this turns out to be a bogus case they should throw his rear in a nice prison full of sex offenders! Scum.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sy-pJsMF1lM&feature=related

[shotgun46]

he was just trying to Jump on the band wagon

[colonelangus]

well i used to be a toyota guy used 4x4's only.i wouldnt buy a new jap/korean/china car period.i buy domestic i know even they have problems but what doesnt.so i keep my money in canada/us makes me feel better:smoke as for dude with the prius well he will get what he deserves

[henry p ratas]

Have to agree with colonelangus.

[TonyC]

Rather than just Toyota's...I am not wanting or driving any vehicle with electronic throttle control.

[CBAS5]

well i used to be a toyota guy used 4x4's only.i wouldnt buy a new jap/korean/china car period.i buy domestic i know even they have problems but what doesnt.so i keep my money in canada/us makes me feel better as for dude with the prius well he will get what he deserves

It's not just about where you money goes for me. After owning a toyota and honda I don't believe they make a better car than the american manufacturers. We have owned 3 GM cars and every one of them has been long lived and reliable with better build quality and features.

Honda was a disaster for us. These cars in the family have been the most unreliable cars we have owned. Nothing but transmission, brake, and electrical problems on all 3.

The Toyota's for the most part were a good car and were nice cars, but I never saw them anymore reliable or better built than any of the GM cars we owned.

My biggest problem with the Japanese manufacturer's, and why Toyota is in big trouble now, is them unwilling to stand up for the quality problems they had. It was a pain getting anything covered under warranty. They would always say it was normal or if something was obviously wrong that it was abuse. Mistakes happen, but how you handle them makes a difference. Denial and shifting blame just isn't right.

Check this out. Acceleration problem or not (also depends if you believe abc). They claim the toyota brakes are too underpowered to stop the car when at WOT. Other manufacturers have brakes that are able to stop a car even at WOT acceleration. I believe this claim as I have always thought Japanese brakes were underpowered. Remember that the brakes on our Sportsters are Japanese (Nissin).

Even more scary. Unsure if the claim is true or not. Is that if you pump the brake pedal you loose the brakes and have no braking. I would think it wouldn't be out of the question to pump the brakes in a situation like that. It may explain why some people are claiming the brakes had zero effect.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/theworldnewser/2009/11/what-should-you-do-if-your-car-accelerates-out-of-control.html

As for the fradulent claim. Unfortunately this is what is going to happen. There are always dishonest people trying to jump on the bandwagon. I don't think it takes anything away from Toyota's quality problems.

[Madmax42]

When i first heard this story i was thinking it was bs. But who am i. We will see.


Madmax42

[Cosmo Kramer]

I don't think it takes anything away from Toyota's quality problems.

I agree...I wasn't saying that they don't have problems...the story was more in reference to the idiot trying to pull off the scam.

I am hearing now that the investigation is proving that he was lying:

During and after the incident, Sikes said he was using heavy pressure on his brake pedal at high speeds.

But the investigation of the vehicle, carried out jointly by safety officials from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration and Toyota engineers, didn't find signs the brakes had been applied at full force at high speeds over a sustained period of time, the three people familiar with the investigation said.

The brakes were discolored and showed wear, but the pattern of friction suggested the driver had intermittently applied moderate pressure on the brakes, these people said, adding the investigation didn't find indicators of the heavy pressure described by Sikes.

[Nitro Circus]

Toyota fessed up and did the right thing with the recall. Ford and Nissan have similar problems and claims but have not bit the bullet yet. Hope
we get movement there soon.

This fly-in-soup syndrome, I too just hope they get what they really deserve.

[rottenralph]

This type of crap is a result of a litigation happy society. Everyone wants to win the Lotto and some try to influence the numbers. This kind of crap pisses me off eventhough I could care less about Toyota.

[AsSeenOnTV]

My biggest problem with the Japanese manufacturer's, and why Toyota is in big trouble now, is them unwilling to stand up for the quality problems they had. It was a pain getting anything covered under warranty. They would always say it was normal or if something was obviously wrong that it was abuse. Mistakes happen, but how you handle them makes a difference. Denial and shifting blame just isn't right.

Sounds like Harley Davidson and their rocker box problems........:D

[CBAS5]

Sounds like Harley Davidson and their rocker box problems........

1) I had never had my rocker boxes leak
2) Harley has had service bulletins and will replace the parts if they leak.
3) If you have a warranty and go in there Harley will cover it. Honda would probably give me crap about fixing it (from my experience).

Years ago Honda produced several porous cases in some of their engines and the oil was seeping out of the cases. The right fix for this is to replace the porous cases, but since that costs a good amount of money Honda refused. Instead they came up with a half ass solution of smearing JB weld on the cases for owner's that were affected. If this was Harley, then they would have replaced the porous cases.

Look at the people that have Harley's extended no-limit mileage warranty. Harley will still cover anything under warranty even if the bike has 150,000 miles on it. Try that with Kawasaki. Even with the extended warranty people have claimed they wouldn't cover things because they said hey 50,000 miles is a lot of miles on a motorcycle. What do you want?

[Nitro Circus]

1) I had never had my rocker boxes leak
2) Harley has had service bulletins and will replace the parts if they leak.
3) If you have a warranty and go in there Harley will cover it. Honda would probably give me crap about fixing it (from my experience).

Years ago Honda produced several porous cases in some of their engines and the oil was seeping out of the cases. The right fix for this is to replace the porous cases, but since that costs a good amount of money Honda refused. Instead they came up with a half ass solution of smearing JB weld on the cases for owner's that were affected. If this was Harley, then they would have replaced the porous cases.

Look at the people that have Harley's extended no-limit mileage warranty. Harley will still cover anything under warranty even if the bike has 150,000 miles on it. Try that with Kawasaki. Even with the extended warranty people have claimed they wouldn't cover things because they said hey 50,000 miles is a lot of miles on a motorcycle. What do you want?

Sorry to hear about your bad experiences, mine have been the other way around, no issues with Honda, six issues with Harley (3 of them rocker cover/gaskets).

Just remember, a company is not a country, it's a company.

[Vance]

Well hey everybody. I just joined the Forums and I have to say that I currently work for Ford and am going to MMI for certs in HD. Every manufacture has it's problems, Harley will warranty any problems that have been recognized by the company (trust me, I'm going to a flippin' bike school). Jap companies are different in the sense that they are cheaper and more mass-produced bikes that after several years are near worthless (why warranties/repairs are on the back-burner) where-as an HD holds its value and parts are still available for years. Yea... some Jap bikes are faster and so-forth, but they lack quality/craftsmanship, originality, and emotion. As for Ford and it's recalls, we are a bit picky with warranty issues, but if it's a recall, we send out letters and e-mails asap to let the owner know to fix the POTENTIAL problem. And for Harley's rocker issue, I've yet to see more than one problem... and my school has over several hundred student bikes, most of them HD's...... Ok, I'm done blabbering on.

[Cosmo Kramer]

Hey Vance....welcome to the XLForum from Buffalo, NY! Glad to have you with us!

Yes, every car manufacturer has had quality problems and will continue to have them...Toyota, GM, Ford, Honda, etc etc. I think what you are seeing is a bunch of americans just really happy to see for once it is not "our guys"....ie...GM, Ford, Chrysler (or whatever they are being called nowadays! :laugh). For years all we have heard is Toyota this...and Honda that in regards to best quality. I don't know...I've never owned either one of those so I can't say first hand if they are better.

There is not a car manufacturer (and by this I mean high volume) that makes 100% good cars....and no one ever will.....there are just too many variables and too many cars produced daily. However, out of every 100 cars rolling off the assembly line I do believe that Toyota/Honda had 90 "good" cars. While the big 3 are at their own levels of quality I would say that as a whole they were about 70 "good cars" through the 1990's and around 80 today. The gamble is when you actually buy a vehicle...which one will you get? Your "odds" are better with Toyota/Honda....but you can still get a great car from the Big 3 too. That's just my take on it. :D

[d_eggman2]

I will stand by my Datsun/Nissan as far as dependability.





:sofa

[CBAS5]

Yes, every car manufacturer has had quality problems and will continue to have them...Toyota, GM, Ford, Honda, etc etc. I think what you are seeing is a bunch of americans just really happy to see for once it is not "our guys"....ie...GM, Ford, Chrysler (or whatever they are being called nowadays! ).

I agree. Everyone makes mistakes. I don't define a company by the mistakes they make, I define them by what they do to fix them (if anything in some cases).

When it comes to the comment of for once it's Toyota. I don't think american cars were ever as unreliable as people made them out to be. I think companies like GM's bad reputation was largely a result of the size of the company. Once Toyota hit the #1 spot I had a feeling this would happen.

Just looking at some math with some rough estimates:

GM: Sold 4 mil cars a year
Toyota: Sold 1 mil cars a year

Let's say reliability is 100% the same.

For every unreliable vehicle although it is 100% the same you hear about 4 GM problems to 1 Toyota problem just because of the quantity sold. Compound that over years and you see the result.

Now it's 8 GM problems to every 2 Toyota Problems.
Then it's 12 Gm problems to every 3 Toyota Problems.
after 5 years...
20 GM problems to every 5 Toyota Problems (assuming sale proportions are the same)

Reliability still 100% the same, but just by the quantity sold we hear about more GM problems and more pissed off GM customers. Now that Toyota took the #1 spot their reputation is going to suffer even if they are just are reliable as they were before, which in my opinion (owning both) I never saw their products as anymore reliable.

[CBAS5]

Anybody remember the recent Nissan GTR transmission problems. Fails under warranty using a feature Nissan advertises in every commercial, but you have no warranty if you use it yourself. The only way to get the advertised performance numbers. Zero coverage for the failed transmission even if the car is under warranty and a new transmission is one of the most expensive at $20,000. :frownthre

Let's say your vette transmission failed. Do you think GM would tell you too bad so sad while you were still under warranty?

Pretty funny clip about it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOAXJTTc__w

[loki03xlh]

Rather than just Toyota's...I am not wanting or driving any vehicle with electronic throttle control.

Don't the new baggers have electronic throttle control?

[Epyx]

http://jalopnik.com/5492832/the-anti+toyota-commercial-ford-wishes-it-had-the-balls-to-run

Funny SNL commercial for the Prius.

[d_eggman2]

Anybody remember the recent Nissan GTR transmission problems. Fails under warranty using a feature Nissan advertises in every commercial, but you have no warranty if you use it yourself. The only way to get the advertised performance numbers. Zero coverage for the failed transmission even if the car is under warranty and a new transmission is one of the most expensive at $20,000. :frownthre

Let's say your vette transmission failed. Do you think GM would tell you too bad so sad while you were still under warranty?

Pretty funny clip about it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOAXJTTc__w

The GTR is a $70,000.00 car. Not quite the same as a Prius....:)

[CBAS5]

The GTR is a $70,000.00 car. Not quite the same as a Prius....

So is the Vette. I'm using it as examples of the Japanese mentality of refusing to stand up to the problems they have and warranty. The reason Toyota is in such serious trouble now: Duck, Deny, and Blame the owner is the mentality. Until you have no other option because of a class action lawsuit or the fed's getting involved. Also, to dismiss some of the idea's that Japanese cars do not have quality problems. They have plenty.


Here are some nice lists of what owners have to go through. 2003 Honda Accord:

http://repairpal.com/honda-accord-2003/common_problems

6-speed Manual Transmission
Some models have shift quality problems when shifting into third gear. A new "third gear set" is needed for this repair.

3.0L V6

* Engine oil leaks can be due to a porous engine block casting.
* Accords powered by the V6 engine had a defective timing belt tensioner that could result in excess "slack" in the timing belt. This could cause premature timing belt failure, which could result in serious engine damage.

[Cosmo Kramer]

For every unreliable vehicle although it is 100% the same you hear about 4 GM problems to 1 Toyota problem just because of the quantity sold. Compound that over years and you see the result.

Agreed...that does make a difference. However having worked in Ford, GM, Chrysler and Tier 1 automotive suppliers (which was GM a few year earlier) I noticed one major difference between the Big 3 and the Honda Plants I have been in. The Big 3 are very good at catching their problems before they go out the door. However....as anyone in manufacturing will tell you....the more defective parts you have on the production floor the more likely they will get out the door and to the customer.

The Honda plant in Marysville, Ohio was COMPLETELY different. It looked like any other Big 3 car plant with the exception that I never saw more than 1 or 2 defective parts on the production floor and there was a lack of "non-conforming / repair areas" like the Big 3 have. While the Big 3 are coming around...I think Toyota/Honda have always done a better job at attacking the root cause of quality problems and not band-aids called "repair areas". I always enjoyed arguing with upper management when they told me that I needed to incorporate these areas in my designs. I always asked..."So we design now for failures?" What happens is that these areas become places to hide the problem. Sure...seeing a large amount of non-conforming parts does raise a flag when they are piled up in a designated area after awhile....but when you don't have this area and you have to put a car body in an aisle because of a quality issue it becomes more visable.

But...that's just my take on it. :D

Oh....btw...suppose to be a Toyota press conference to agree with the government's conclusion that they could find nothing wrong with this guy's Prius. So is he going to be charged for improper use of the 911 system, speeding (as he clearly admitted...over 80 & 90 mph), careless driving......??? :frownthre

[linkin5]

This guy deserves some serious jail time for his attempted fraud.

[Bone]

Rather than just Toyota's...I am not wanting or driving any vehicle with electronic throttle control.

My wife's new car has an electronic throttle... no big deal. It also has a 5-speed and a clutch, so any moron can keep it from speeding away should the extremely unlikely event of a throttle control circuit failure.

Don't the new baggers have electronic throttle control?

YUP, but since they have a clutch too you'd have to be REALLY stupid to have an "unintended acceleration" problem.

[Cosmo Kramer]

Here are some nice lists of what owners have to go through. 2003 Honda Accord:

I understand your point in that they have quality problems too....but you can put just about any car in there and get dirt back. Just the way it is.

Funny...my ex has a Chevy Malibu which was a P.O.S. just like her Blazer....I know cause I did all the repairs on both of them. So for fun I put in 2003 Chevy Mailibu from the same site and got this.....I almost fell over:

Recalls for the 2003 Chevrolet MalibuDrive Train: VEHICLE SPEED CONTROL:ACCELERATOR PEDAL
Campaign Number: 04V528000
Dates Manufactured: 11/2002 to 05/2003
Number of Vehicles Affected: 92,863
Model Years Affected: 2003
Date Owner Notified: 12/2004
Defect Summary: CERTAIN PASSENGER VEHICLES FAIL TO COMPLY WITH THE REQUIREMENTS OF FEDERAL MOTOR VEHICLE SAFETY STANDARD NO. 124, 'ACCELERATOR CONTROL SYSTEMS.' IN HOT AMBIENT CONDITIONS, THE ACCELERATOR PEDAL ARM MAY STICK AT THE ATTACHMENT TO THE BRACKET AND NOT RETURN TO THE ENGINE IDLE POSITION WHEN THE OPERATOR LIFTS HIS FOOT FROM THE ACCELERATOR PEDAL.

Consequence Summary: FAILURE TO RETURN TO IDLE COULD RESULT IN A VEHICLE CRASH.

Corrective Summary: DEALERS WILL INSPECT THE ACCELERATOR PEDAL ARM AND REPLACE THE ACCELERATOR AND BRAKE PEDAL ASSEMBLY WITH A NEW ASSEMBLY, IF NECESSARY. THE RECALL BEGAN ON DECEMBER 20, 2004. OWNERS SHOULD CONTACT CHEVROLET AT 1-800-630-2438, PONTIAC AT 1-800-620-7668, OR OLDSMOBILE AT 1-800-630-6537. "

:roflblack

The problem I have with GM from items I have fixed is that most of their problems are in my eyes poor design related. Things like rusting/failing door hinges because the water is allowed to run down the inner A-pillar and onto the hinges. :doh Didn't we learn that lesson in the 70's???

Edit:

Found another one for the same car:

Engine: FUEL SYSTEM, OTHER:STORAGE:TANK ASSEMBLY:PRESSURE RELIEF DEVICES
Campaign Number: 07E021000
Number of Vehicles Affected: 742
Model Years Affected: 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003
Date Owner Notified: 04/2007
Defect Summary: CERTAIN DELPHI FUEL PRESSURE REGULATORS, P/NOS. FP10020-11B1, FP10026-11B1, AND FP10027-11B1, SOLD AFTER JANUARY 9, 2007, AS AFTERMARKET EQUIPMENT FOR VARIOUS PASSENGER VEHICLES LISTED ABOVE. THE UNIVERSAL PRESSURE REGULATORS (UPR) WERE PRODUCED WITHOUT AN O'RING AND RETAINER.

Consequence Summary: FUEL MAY LEAK, POSSIBLY RESULTING IN A FIRE.

Corrective Summary: DELPHI WILL NOTIFY OWNERS AND REPLACE THE UPR FREE OF CHARGE. THE RECALL BEGAN ON APRIL 23, 2007. OWNERS CAN CONTACT DELPHI AT 877-411-8770.

Recall Notes: THIS RECALL ONLY PERTAINS TO AFTERMARKET DELPHI FUEL PRESSURE REGULATORS AND HAS NO RELATION TO ANY ORIGINAL EQUIPMENT INSTALLED BY GENERAL MOTORS.CUSTOMERS MAY CONTACT THE NATIONAL HIGHWAY TRAFFIC SAFETY ADMINISTRATION'S VEHICLE SAFETY HOTLINE AT 1-888-327-4236 (TTY: 1-800-424-9153); OR GO TO HTTP://WWW.SAFERCAR.GOV.

[CBAS5]

Corrective Summary: DEALERS WILL INSPECT THE ACCELERATOR PEDAL ARM AND REPLACE THE ACCELERATOR AND BRAKE PEDAL ASSEMBLY WITH A NEW ASSEMBLY, IF NECESSARY. THE RECALL BEGAN ON DECEMBER 20, 2004. OWNERS SHOULD CONTACT CHEVROLET AT 1-800-630-2438, PONTIAC AT 1-800-620-7668, OR OLDSMOBILE AT 1-800-630-6537. "

And this illustrates my point. If GM makes a mistake they will recall or fix under warranty. The Japanese/Toyota mentality has been to ignore the issue, deny it exists, and blame the owner's if possible. This is why Toyota is in such deep crap right now. The claim is they knew about this, but chose to ignore it.

Same thing with Honda. They have had transmission problems since 1998 all the way to 2005 or maybe even beyond. Honda would not stand behind the product. They only extended the warranty after owner's took them to court and had a class action lawsuit. Even then the owner's were screwed because they just had a minor extension of the warranty. Again, duck, deny, and blame the owner until they are forced to fix.

[CBAS5]

The Honda plant in Marysville, Ohio was COMPLETELY different. It looked like any other Big 3 car plant with the exception that I never saw more than 1 or 2 defective parts on the production floor and there was a lack of "non-conforming / repair areas" like the Big 3 have. While the Big 3 are coming around...I think Toyota/Honda have always done a better job at attacking the root cause of quality problems and not band-aids called "repair areas". I always enjoyed arguing with upper management when they told me that I needed to incorporate these areas in my designs. I always asked..."So we design now for failures?" What happens is that these areas become places to hide the problem. Sure...seeing a large amount of non-conforming parts does raise a flag when they are piled up in a designated area after awhile....but when you don't have this area and you have to put a car body in an aisle because of a quality issue it becomes more visable.

Interesting perspective. So how would you label the problems with the Japanese cars?

You know the the Toyota recalls. Brakes, Accelerator, Engine Failures, Rusty Frames.

Honda had it's fair share of transmission, electrical, engine problems and other things. Porous Cases. Second gear packs failing. The S2000 had it's fair share of engine failures, etc.

Nissan had issue with the GTR transmissions and the drive shaft of the 370Z. I think it was 370, but may have been 350. Extensive oil consumption on it's Sentra's, etc.

Those aren't complete lists by any means. They have a long long laundry list of problems. It's just that over the years less owner's were affected than with GM cars because the numbers they produced and sold were smaller than the big 3.

I have experienced the same type of mentality on my Honda. So often when shit goes down even under warranty they refuse to do anything. This guy may be in the wrong or he may not, but this is something that's still common on Japanese cars.

So I have a 2003 S2000, it's a lease, it has 26000 miles on it. And now it's a very expensive paper weight.

Inexplicably, one night, I heard a strange rattling noise that was engine speed sensitive...increased frequency w/ revs. The check engine light never came on... as far as anyone would guess this might not be a big problem. I drove the additional mile and a half home, park the car for the weekend and call a local Honda dealer for an appointment. The next time I start the car is the day I make the <5 Mile trip to the dealership. Upon start up the engine sounds fine, but again, as revs increase the sound quickens. A mile or so down the road the engine stalls at a red light. Can't get it started, and yet still no check engine light. I push the wounded car off the road and call AAA. After a couple of hours I have the car flatbed towed to the Honda dealer where it would remain to this day (2+ months later).

The service writer calls me and says that the warranty will not cover this problem because the engine is seized. When I ask how this was determined the service writer told me they tried starting the engine, it wouldn't crank, and when the dipstick was pulled the level was low.

It should be noted at this point that, I have all required documentation for self-administered oil changes done at 5000 some odd mile intervals w/ Mobil 1 full synthetic oil. It should also be noted that w/in 2 weeks prior to this incident I had in-fact checked my oil and the level was fine... and another side note... w/in 26000 miles the car had never used a single drop of oil between oil changes (not so much as 1/2 a quart).

After a rather irritated conversation w/ the service manager, at which time I voiced my displeasure for having found my car in the same outside parking spot I unloaded it in (indicating the car never made it into the garage to be examined). The service manager was adamant that no further work would be done to even determine the cause or even the actual problem unless I were to pay for such work out of my pocket.

The service department was ready to deny warranty coverage on an apparent engine problem w/o so much as even dropping the oil pan or draining whatever oil was left. By the way, as I stood over the car w/ the service manager there was visible oil on the dipstick (albeit not a great deal but still there).

At this point the local zone rep was called in to make a determination. I was told by the service manager that the warranty was voided by the zone rep because 1) there oil level was low and 2) there was an aftermarket air intake.

Despite the fact that there is a federal law that mandates aftermarket equipment must be proven to have caused a failure to allow a company to void a warranty (Magnusson-Moss) and the fact the Check Engine light, and more importanly the Low Oil Pressure light never, i repeat, never came on (a blatant and very visible indication of a factory part not operating as intended... grounds for warranty coverage)... I was told that the warranty would not cover this problem.

Many, many phone calls to the National Warranty Claim service resulted in no movement whatsoever on this issue. After repeated conversations w/ a claim consultant, who did little to honor Honda's reputation for customer service multiple letters were writtien the President of Honda North America, as well as phone calls placed. Weeks after this contact was initiated contact was resumed w/in the Claim center...where we re-hash the same arguments tri-weekly.

The morale of the story is Honda, as great a product as they have on their hands w/ the S2000, is piss poor at customer service... also, you can be the most fastidious owner (as I would like to think I was) and w/o warning find yourself w/ an expensive chunk of melted aluminum ... my engine.

A comment by someone else:

That is indeed a horrific story, and unfortunately one that is a bit too common I am afraid. It sounds like you did everything you could to have Honda honor their warranty and, as suspected by many people, they do whatever they can to find an excuse to NOT honor it. Excuses like "driver abuse" are so easy for car companies in any performance car, aren't they?

[Cosmo Kramer]

I have experienced the same type of mentality on my Honda. So often when shit goes down even under warranty they refuse to do anything. This guy may be in the wrong or he may not, but this is something that's still common on Japanese cars.

Ok...what is your point? There are horror stories like this for every manufacturer/dealer. I have my own for 2000 Chevy Blazer that was sent back to the dealer 4 times.....after the 1st time I didn't buy their excuse and investigated the problem myself. Within in 30 minutes I figured it out...but since it was under "warranty" I took it back again and told them exactly what was happening. The 4th time....they finally "found" what I said I was wrong.

If you think GM, Ford and Chrylser are jumping on recalls as soon as a few people tell them they have a problem with their car/truck you are sadly mistaken. They understand the millions of dollars they stand to lose for everyone one of those recalls just in the cost to cover the repair not even counting the possible loss of customers. They delay and try to downgrade the problem as much as they can.....ask me how I know. :shhhh Now I am not going to say they "lie" about it...and if Toyota did that then they should pay the price....without question.

As far as quality goes....Toyota and Honda still beat the top 3 overall. Any honest person in the big 3 will admit that. There is a reason why the big 3 for the last 10 years having been doing their best to imitate and enact the "Toyota Manufacturing System". It is not because it doesn't work or it doesn't breed quality within the system versus at the end before it rolls off the final line. I have yet to hear anyone say..."Our manufacturing system needs to be like <insert big 3 company name here>'s". The manufacturing system by toyota isn't different conveyors or equipment...it is a change in philosophy of eliminating waste. One of the biggest forms of waste: rework/scrap/defects.

Like I said in a previous post...first time quality off the assembly line (regardless of total production numbers) is owned right now by Toyota and Honda. Have the big 3 improved....thankfully yes!...quite a bit. I've never owned a foreign car...I grew up with Ford putting bread on our table...so I am not defending Toyota/whomever in anyway. I have owned vehicles from all 3 of our auto manufacturers...some better than others. Just saying how I "see it" having walked through Ford manufacturing plants all over the country since I was a little kid and later through Chrysler, GM, Ford, Dana, American Axle and Honda plants as part of my job. ;)

[CBAS5]

Toyota and Honda. Have the big 3 improved....thankfully yes!...quite a bit. I've never owned a foreign car...I grew up with Ford putting bread on our table...so I am not defending Toyota/whomever in anyway. I have owned vehicles from all 3 of our auto manufacturers...some better than others. Just saying how I "see it" having walked through Ford manufacturing plants all over the country since I was a little kid and later through Chrysler, GM, Ford, Dana, American Axle and Honda plants as part of my job

You should buy one to compare. We've owned both Toyota/Honda. Like I said the Toyota's were a good car, but they weren't anymore reliable than the GM's. The honda's were a complete disaster. When it comes to build quality the Honda's are super cheap. Toyota's are built more solid. If nothing goes wrong then you will be lucky, but if you have major problems then you'll know what I am talking about.

[milmat1]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100315/ap_on_bi_ge/us_runaway_prius

While a final report is not yet complete, there are strong indications that the driver's account of the event is inconsistent with the findings of the preliminary analysis," the statement said.

"They have never been able to replicate an incident of sudden acceleration. Mr. Sikes never had a problem in the three years he owned this vehicle," he said Sunday.

But Rep. Darrell Issa, R-Calif., suggested the failure to duplicate the stuck accelerator, and the presence of a backup system in the car, raised questions about Sikes' story.



http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100315/bs_afp/usjapanautocompanytoyotapriusrunaway_2010031520122 6

However, an analysis of the vehicle found that there were no problems with the car's brake override system which should have shut the engine throttle down if James Sikes had applied sufficient pressure to the brakes.

An analysis of the vehicle also found that the brakes became overheated after they were repeatedly tapped lightly while the accelerator was also depressed, Toyota said.

[Cosmo Kramer]

If nothing goes wrong then you will be lucky, but if you have major problems then you'll know what I am talking about.

I think I used that same exact line when talking about dealing with "American Classic Motors" :laugh

Right now I think the biggest problem for Toyota is that they still don't know what is going on with the acceleration problem. One of the exec's even admitted so in front of congress when asked if the gas pedal bar thinghy would solve the sudden acceleration problem with 100% certainity.

[CBAS5]

I think I used that same exact line when talking about dealing with "American Classic Motors"

I am pretty sure that wasn't me. I don't think I ever commented on any AMC thread, but who knows that was a long time ago. Do you have a link to that post?

[Cosmo Kramer]

I am pretty sure that wasn't me. I don't think I ever commented on any AMC thread, but who knows that was a long time ago. Do you have a link to that post?

Oh...no, I was kidding with ya.....purely coincedence that they were about the same....it just reminded me of when I was talking about their fabulous customer service in another thread. :D

[milmat1]

Until it can be duplicated under controlled circumstances it will remain a big ????

You can bet the engineers at Toyota are working O.T. Trying to find the bug. However Now that it is "headline News" They know that liability is pretty well established and they will be very careful how they present it when they find it....

As for the Japan vs American automakers. Remember it was the Japanese who FORCED Detroit to retool and build 300,000 mile cars to stay in buisness.. In Fact THANKS to the Japanese invasion in the 70's Detroit started making the best damb cars in the world.
I can remember when a car had close to 100K on it you knew it was JUNK. But now an American car with 200K is still a good used car to buy...Just my Observation !

A Good example was the late 70's Dodge trucks. Those damb trucks would run FOREVER !

[TonyC]

My wife's new car has an electronic throttle... no big deal. It also has a 5-speed and a clutch, so any moron can keep it from speeding away should the extremely unlikely event of a throttle control circuit failure.

Yeah, a clutch would negate any problems. But for ones with automatics, no such luck.

[TonyC]

Don't the new baggers have electronic throttle control?

Yeah they do. And even with a clutch, I still wouldnt want one. I'll take an old fashion cable any day.

[Bone]

Yeah, a clutch would negate any problems. But for ones with automatics, no such luck.

Automatics STILL have NEUTRAL though and it's the same thing.

Even the Prius has a Neutral, though they MAY be shift-by-wire too which could add a potential complication.

Yeah they do. And even with a clutch, I still wouldnt want one. I'll take an old fashion cable any day.

I don't mind the cables, I have no NEED for fly-by-wire on a bike, as I have no need/desire for ABS or Traction Control (which is the primary reason they use such systems), however I wouldn't be spooked by it either.

[TonyC]

Good for you! :clap

[Cosmo Kramer]

Interesting....apparently these idiots didn't get the memo that it wasn't the Prius that was having the accelerator issues:

http://xlforum.net/vbportal/forums/showthread.php?t=750365&page=4

[Weo]

Some people have been asking why people don't put the car in neutral. I don't know how reliable the comment is, but I was just talking with my contractor. He said he got rid of his Lexus awhile ago because he had issues with the throttle sticking, it wouldn't shift to neutral when this happened, although I can't remember what he said happened when he tried braking. He said since it was a Lexus, it didn't qualify for the Toyota recall. He also recently got rid of his Volvo T6 because of drastic transmission problems. I took a ride in it last year and it seemed to be a sweet car.

[bobII]

Check this out. Acceleration problem or not (also depends if you believe abc). They claim the toyota brakes are too underpowered to stop the car when at WOT. Other manufacturers have brakes that are able to stop a car even at WOT acceleration. I believe this claim as I have always thought Japanese brakes were underpowered. Remember that the brakes on our Sportsters are Japanese (Nissin).


This is incorrect. No vehicle's brakes are strong enough to stop a moving vehicle at WOT (assuming its moving at something over 5mph). Its basic physics of kinetic vs static friction. You might be able to slow it down but depending on speed, the vehicle won't stop before the brakes overheat and gloss over.

[Bone]

This is incorrect. No vehicle's brakes are strong enough to stop a moving vehicle at WOT (assuming its moving at something over 5mph). Its basic physics of kinetic vs static friction. You might be able to slow it down but depending on speed, the vehicle won't stop before the brakes overheat and gloss over.

Seems that Car and Driver proved you wrong with 3 different test cars, including a Mustang.

The automotive engineers I've talked to regarding it feel that when working properly all cars brakes should be able to overpower and stop a motor at WOT.

Granted, that may not be true if you're already going 100 mph at WOT when you hit them...

[bobII]

Seems that Car and Driver proved you wrong with 3 different test cars, including a Mustang.

The automotive engineers I've talked to regarding it feel that when working properly all cars brakes should be able to overpower and stop a motor at WOT.

Granted, that may not be true if you're already going 100 mph at WOT when you hit them...

I stand corrected....thanks for the info

[linkin5]

the idiots who crash are the same ones who kill us at intersections, that is a hurd that needs thinned.

[pquirk]

I've got a Tundra with ETC. It's the first vehicle I've had with it. It doesn't bother me.



Right now I think the biggest problem for Toyota is that they still don't know what is going on with the acceleration problem. One of the exec's even admitted so in front of congress when asked if the gas pedal bar thinghy would solve the sudden acceleration problem with 100% certainity.I didn't take my truck in yet. I'll wait 'til they actually figure out what the problem is. It's clearly a software gremlin. From Day 1 I didn't buy the floor mat crap or the weld on fix; obvious smokescreens.

the idiots who crash are the same ones who kill us at intersections, that is a hurd that needs thinned.Yep.