PDA

View Full Version : I'm SO glad I bought a 1200c, rather than a V-Rod!


MisterB
11th December 2004, 20:19
I may be one of the few Harley owners that actually admires the design of the V-Rod, but I'm sure glad I decided to go with the '05 1200c. It dawned on me yesterday as I was shooting the breeze with the sales guy at my local Harley dealer, that the V-Rod does not have the classic Harley sound. It can't because of the design of the water cooled engine, etc. You can buy Screamin' Eagle pipes for them now, but it's just not the same classic Harley sound we have all grown to love from our Sportsters.

I think there is also a good chance that the V-Rod may actually be a tad smaller than the new 1200c also. Can anyone confirm this? The BT owners are constantly calling the Sportster "small", but I guess they just overlook the V-Rod, because Harley for some reason charges more for it...

The showroom was filled with other nice Fat Boy's, Dyna's, etc. but I left there feeling extremely pleased with the purchase I had already made. I feel absolutely no need to "upgrade". I wonder if this newly re-designed Sportster will be a good/bad thing for Harley-Davidson.

flathead45
11th December 2004, 20:39
the v-rod if I remember right is an 1130cc motor and its not just the water cooling that changes the sound its the fact that it does not have a common crank flywheel setup



harleys and indians get thier sound from the common crank that fires at an uneven order giving it that potato-potato sound

* A piston fires.
* The next piston fires at 315 degrees.
* There is a 405-degree gap.
* A piston fires.
* The next piston fires at 315 degrees.
* There is a 405-degree gap.

And the cycle continues.

At idle, you can hear the pop-pop sound followed by a pause. So the sound of a Harley is pop-pop...pop-pop...pop-pop. That is the unique sound of a Harley-Davidson motorcycle.
http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/harley-revolution-engine.jpg

this is a 60* v-twin not 45*s like every other harley engine made

xllent01
11th December 2004, 20:41
I dislike the V-ROD, but for the money there are better choices
of motorcycles out there to buy. Rather spend the money
on a FLH standard put a small windshield on it, and customize
the holy hell out of it and have one badass bagger.

Don't get me wrong i still :luvsport and will keep it for a long
time to come. If EPA keeps going the way they are going
all of us will be riding water cooled harley's in the near future.
So just hold on to that air cooled carb fed sportster because
in a few years they will all have EFI and radiators hanging
off the sides.I'm a cowboy on a steel horse I ride

skooter
11th December 2004, 21:41
MisterB You said quote "I wonder if this newly re-designed Sportster will be a good/bad thing for Harley-Davidson."

Unfortunatley you missed a very intense forum about this topic a while back. It was in my opinion that the new 04/05 Sportsters were going to eventually be a bad thing for Harley. It is not because of the great improvements that they have done but becuase of the things that they have taken away from the 04/05 sportys that were once a bench mark for these bikes. The unfortunate thing is that harley is heading towards making disposable bikes like the japanese and not continueing the long standing tradition of making bikes that are easy and convenient to rebuilt. The V-Rod is the most obvious of this in that it has no replaceable cam bearings in the cylinder head but has the bearing surfaces machined right into the aluminium casting. This will require the replacement of the cylinder head upon rebuilt if the cam or cam bearing surface is worn. Traditionally a bearing and new cam would have been installed into the original head casting. I'm not positive but I'm suspicious about the 04/05 sportsters in that I think the replacable cam bearings are now missing in these motors too. Where they were once replaceable they are no longer. also the V-Rod has the cylinders cast right into the cases and therfore will require replaceing the entire engine case once the maximum bore has been extracted. This is far more expensive than just changing a cylinder.

I do know for sure that the very convenient trap door that was quite familiar and very handy for removing the transmission from the sportster is now gone in the 04 model. Where once all it took to remove the transmission from the bike was to remove the primary drive, undo 5 bolts and the tranny would come right out the left side of the engine without disturbing anything else on the bike or the motor now requires a complete tear down of the engine, removal of the bottom end from the frame and then splitting the engine cases. Far more costly and time consuming. The performance and comfort enhancements on the newer 04 rubbermount could have been easily done without taking away the servicability and re-buildabilty of the bike. Unfortunatley harley is moving in that direction with all their products but it is in the V-Rod and now the Sportster that we see the future of Harley design. I for one don't thing this is a good move on their part and it is one that will eventually result in poor resale values on the bikes as they get older. No one fears buying an old harley because it is so easily serviceable and consequently the re-sale value remains high. But like the japanese bikes the harleys will become harder to keep and eventually too cost prohibitve to maintain because of their unservicable designs that they won't be so easy to sell as they get old and will become like the japanese bikes. They will lose their re-sale values and become scrap rather than old bikes that people still desire to ride.

SportsterBart
11th December 2004, 23:58
Congrats on your new Sporty MisterB! Ya can't go wrong with an XL, in my humble opinion it is the most versatile bike made. :clap

Skooter, I didn't know about the V-Rod having machined bearing surfaces. I learn something new every day here. Good post :)


Bart

RedRider
12th December 2004, 01:09
The V-Rod's water cooled engine may be the way of the future for H-D, but right now in their line it is not quite fish and not quite fowl...

If the EPA doesn't drive H-D into a full line of water cooled motors in the next couple years, I'm not sure how long they will keep the V-Rod in the mix...

skooter
12th December 2004, 01:54
I hate to say it but I will be glad to see the V-Rod become a marketing failure for Harley. They really stuck a lot of money into the development of that bike. Maybe it will be a clear signal to harley to concentrate on building the bikes that have made them successful up to know. Trying to be like the Japs will be the end of harley. They should recognize that people are buying their machines because they are not like the Jap bikes.

skooter
12th December 2004, 02:39
I say re-introduce the Iron head for '06 with the kicker!

flathead45
12th December 2004, 02:46
ouch , scooter your a nut

skooter
12th December 2004, 02:51
:mirror Ya....I know it! Must be because everyone tells me that I am.

flathead45
12th December 2004, 02:53
a nut spelled backwards is "tuna"

skooter
12th December 2004, 02:55
Call me "Charlie"

dabronco
12th December 2004, 06:37
Remember the '71 amf superglide in the red, white, and blue faired in seat and fender P.O.S. Truly the ugliest Harley ever built. It had an obvious Japanese flavor. Harley was mistaken by believing that America liked jap styling and that's why we were buying more of them than harleys. When in truth the jap bikes were just a hell of alot cheaper. (And Harley's quality at that time was inconsistant.)

dabronco
12th December 2004, 06:40
A 2006 Ironhead............HELL YES!!!

skooter
12th December 2004, 21:25
Atta Boy Debronco....Let's start a writing campaign to Harley Marketing and see if we can't convince 'em.

beast1
12th December 2004, 22:49
2006 xlch yea yea yea !!!!! :clap :tour :D

scottsw1
13th December 2004, 03:21
MisterB,
Congrats on your Sporty, I have an 883 for the wife and really like it and bet that the 1200 is pretty fun to ride. A word of caution...never ride a V-Rod because it is addictive.
Many of the Harley faithful hate the V-Rod for what it is not rather than what it is. What does this mean, look at the Jap cruisers like the Yamaha Warrior, Honda VTX, Honda Shadow and Kawasaki Vulcan. Harley built an American bike that outperforms almost all other cruisers and its style is distinctive from all the rest. Granted, it doesn't sound like the rest of the other Harleys, but do you ride for the sound or for performance? Most Harley's sound the way they do because the owners paid the "Harley tax" to increase performance and make it sound like a Harley. I believe that Harley is trying to expand its market, not become a Jap bike clone company.
I here all these rumors about the V-Rod being a sales failure, but the local dealers here in the Denver area (about 6 of them) are saying that they sell quite well. The salesman told me when we bought the Sporty is that if the V-Rod was priced the same as the Jap bikes they wouldn't be able to keep them on the floor as price hindered a lot of people from buying them. Granted the V-Rod is not like most Harleys, it is fast right off the showroom floor. It is water cooled, if water cooling is bad the only cars on the road would be air cooled Chevy corsairs and VW bugs. The V-rod has a different seating position, but the seating position is pretty close to any other Harley with highway bars. What could Harley build that doesn't already fit into their current inventory?
Bottom line, buy the bike you like, if any other Harley rider wants to bad mouth mine fine, but he is going to have to ride like hell to catch up with my Harley!

TechRep
13th December 2004, 16:41
For what it's worth...
Acording to the HD site... The V-Rod is longer by about 3" with a bigger wheel base.
The 04/05 Sportsters Cam bearings are removable/replacable.

skooter
13th December 2004, 16:49
Thank you on that info. Wasn't sure about that when I looked at a breakdown of the engine. I wasn't going to be suprised if they were missing though.

flathead45
13th December 2004, 16:55
the v-rod .....

well I guess I ride a harley for the sound then , I have riden hondas, yammies, trumpits, zukis, beemers , beesers, briggs, just about anything out there and its not the bike , its not the sound, its a deep rooted feeling that cannot be explaned

I had lots of fun on my shadow , but it was lacking, the zuki was a tricked out custom from the 70's and that was lacking, my trumpit is a killer chopp but it still don't have it

even when I drove someone elses h.d. that feeling was lacking, it wasn't mine . the best way I can explane it is a pride of ownership . the son of the owner of the local h.d. dealer won't ride a harley he likes jap rockets for some reason he also likes the v-rod

like the saying goes "if I had to explane it , you wouldn't understand"

collinsb
14th December 2004, 01:51
I like my 2004 Sporty! It's shiney and makes noise! Vrods are shiney and make noise,too! I like your bike! Why won't you like my bike? I think it should be againt the law to say something about a bike that's not nice. First offense, maybe a $7.65 fine and any subsequent offense, maybe a couple years behind bars.
Billy

skooter
14th December 2004, 01:54
Ya but what would happen if we couldn't have an opinion? I wouldn't buy that suzuki that mt brother bought and he wouldn't buy a sportster or any harley for that matter because he doesn't like them.

RedRider
14th December 2004, 02:03
Billy- $7.65 for the first offense!!!! Holy crap, you're a hard-ass....

I think it should be $1.98 for the first offense... Second offense, you have to sleep with Rosy O'Donnell...

dabronco
14th December 2004, 02:47
Rosey O'Donnell? And you called HIM a hard ass!

dabronco
14th December 2004, 02:54
This poor fellow once slept with Ms. O'Donnell

Barry Clark
14th December 2004, 04:27
I hate to say it but I will be glad to see the V-Rod become a marketing failure for Harley. They really stuck a lot of money into the development of that bike. Maybe it will be a clear signal to harley to concentrate on building the bikes that have made them successful up to know. Trying to be like the Japs will be the end of harley. They should recognize that people are buying their machines because they are not like the Jap bikes.I waited years to get my hands on a Sporty. Another cool little note is that when the Japanese were bringing in bikes that were killing the domestic motorcycle market, the XL's were not only keeping Harley afloat but were giving the Japanese manufacturer's something to reckon with.


Now I got one, got it tweaked and, unlike many imports, turns heads everywhere I go. You never get that kind of respect on a Honda. Is that I like my bike: no but it sure is nice. ;)

SportsterSpive
14th December 2004, 05:37
I love my '04, and guess what? I rode a CVO V-Rod and I loved it. I loved the sound and the performance without the volume of sound. I would love to have a V-Rod someday, but I suspect that my next bike will be a Firebolt. At any rate, the V-Rod doesn't sound like a traditional Harley, but it has a unique and great sound (IMHO) all the same.

--Sean

collinsb
14th December 2004, 06:17
Second offense, you have to sleep with Rosy O'Donnell...

I'll take two years of hard time!

designeraccd
14th December 2004, 11:33
The V-rod a failure? Oh.....seems that H-D have built many thousands of these bikes and continue to do so. Personally I prefer my 1200R, but as an Industrial Designer I think the V-Rod is one of the most unique looking bikes availible today; excellent, fresh design. Definately not a copy of anything.

However, of all 71 bikes I've had over the years my '04 1200R is my personal favorite to ride....fast, on twisty back roads....where is SPRING???! DFO :)

Barry Clark
23rd December 2004, 06:14
Welcome to the 1200 CLUB!

Barry Clark
23rd December 2004, 06:18
The V-rod a failure? Oh.....seems that H-D have built many thousands of these bikes and continue to do so. Personally I prefer my 1200R, but as an Industrial Designer I think the V-Rod is one of the most unique looking bikes availible today; excellent, fresh design. Definately not a copy of anything.

However, of all 71 bikes I've had over the years my '04 1200R is my personal favorite to ride....fast, on twisty back roads....where is SPRING???! DFO :)
FWIW, the Harley shops around NW Metro ATL seem to be having some trouble getting rid of the V-Rods. I am not saying saying they are a failure as other markets may be different but the shops are just about giving the bikes away. There a loads of the previous year's model where as the BT's and XL's are flying off the floor. That is just an observation.

SportsterBart
23rd December 2004, 06:37
flathead45 wrote: the best way I can explane it is a pride of ownership

That speaks volumes. Well said. :cheers


Bart

Barry Clark
23rd December 2004, 06:39
flathead45 wrote: the best way I can explane it is a pride of ownership

That speaks volumes. Well said. :cheers


BartQuite.
:chtwo

albe
23rd December 2004, 17:07
On the VROD being bigger....

Aside form engine size, my buddies vrod (completely chromed out -- looks like a show bike) is definitely LONGER than my 05 sporty (taxes paid), and without a doubt much peppier at roll-on.

I put the SE balonies on my scoot, and he's got SE's on his as well. When we're sitting next to each with our bikes running you can't even hear his over my bike. I agree with earlier posters on the sound -- the vrod doesn't sound like a Harley at all -- nor does it look like one in my opinion....On the other hand, I'd rather see him on a vrod than a metric!

Desertfox
23rd December 2004, 17:56
I say re-introduce the Iron head for '06 with the kicker!


Interesting. Back in the halcyon days of my spirited youth when I bought My first bike (350 Sprint) everyone was decrying the new AMF Harleys. Many people I knew at the time didn't even consider ANY AMF Harley a "real" Harley Davidson. I had an older cousin who bought a Sportster that same year. He paid a whole $2,300 for it off the show room floor. It is ironic to see these iron head brutes going for many times what was paid for them back then when everyone was ragging on them. I guess you never know what you have till it's gone.

gwcrim
23rd December 2004, 18:03
V-Rod: WTF were they thinking? The baddest engine to come from the MoCo ever and they stick it in a frame with tons of rake and forward controls!!! StO0pId!!!

Imagine a 115 HP engine in a Buell or Sportster frame. Now THAT would sell!

:tour

honus402
24th December 2004, 00:25
My 2005 1200C still has eight replaceable cam bearings. As far as the transmission "trapdoor", many see that as an improvement. When someone in a twincam makes a negative comment, remind them that your Sporty is a quadcam.

blueglide88
24th December 2004, 02:16
Harley sales are slowing. The salesman at my local dealer, Chicago Harley, said they used to sell bikes all thru fall and winter. Now he has nothing to do. I've also noted that in NW Illinois, I have heard comercails for HD. I can't remeber that in the past. In these comercails, they are advertising the VROD. I don't think it's selling real good. I mean, you don't have to advertise something that sells itself. HD made a mistake by pricing the "entry level" VROD at about $17,000. Way too much. I bought a Sporty instead. What will they have to charge for a bagger version? $25,000? They should have started pricing at around the same as a Super Glide, and go up from there. I know they would sell a hell of a lot more.

designeraccd
26th December 2004, 16:23
Given the "reception" the V-rod has gotten in the USofA the price vs. "percieved" value seems high. It is, IMhO, (see earlier comments) a beautiful, unique design but given the chassis geometry they sure aren't what I would call back road curve carvers. OTOH, those eye catching wheels do a superb job acting as sails when hit by wind gusts. Felt that on the first V-rod I tried....not a good thing.

The Sportsters, especially the 1200R version, are to me the absolute best value of anything H-D builds, and-again to me-more fun to ride than any other Harley, too. Of course my other 3 "everyday" bikes are: '74 BMW R75/6(my 12100R will take her thru a 1/4, just...1203cc vs 750, HA), '03 Suzook SV 1000 N (fast, 996cc bare, 111hp Vtwin), and '04 Honda ST 1300. My 1200R, in decent weather, is THE bike of choice tho!

My local H-D shop continues to roll bikes out year round. They don't have the long waiting lists of a few years ago, but they do keep selling bikes. Then again they (Gerencers H-D) are a very customer oriented shop as they continue "going to the bank" with their deposits! DFO :)

willprevale
26th December 2004, 17:11
Harley sales are slowing.

Good observation. Skooter gave about the best run down in his first post. HD is apparently trying to cash in on the "planned obsolecence" trend so prevalent in today's marketing strategem. There's definetely something in the air as MoCo continues to fight for it's share of the ever expanding market. Why else would they be building a huge plant in China? It cannot continue to compete as things are. Many of the foreign offerings are fairly nice looking and perform as well or better. Down the line,I can see a competively priced albeit, disposable POS. It's the way of things in today's world of disposable goods.

Hold on to your Harleys. They can only increase in value. :clap

dabronco
26th December 2004, 17:37
Don't be too quick to call the V-Rod "disposable". Many a Honda 750, with proper care and maintenance has gone 100,000 miles before rebuild. they have cam bearings machined right into the head. The lubricating system is different. How many miles was an old ironhead gonna go before it needed a top o/h? I also believe Porsche designed the motor or is building it. Please correct me if I'm wrong. As far as the cylinders being monolithic in design, How many of us keep our bikes thru three over-bores? (Racers excluded.) As far as Jap bikes being considered throw-aways, EVERYTHING WITH WHEELS is throw-away nowadays. Just look at the depreciation of the car you're driving, and you will see I'm right. Harleys have kept their value ARTIFICIALLY. Only because new ones are sooo expensive and WE keep paying the price. The only entity that doesn't place a high value on a used harley is the dealer. Just ask them what yer pristine thirty year old bike is worth as a trade!

flathead45
26th December 2004, 17:41
$1700 and a "T" shirt :shhhh

dabronco
26th December 2004, 17:42
THAT MUCH?????

Desertfox
26th December 2004, 17:44
V-Rod: WTF were they thinking? The baddest engine to come from the MoCo ever and they stick it in a frame with tons of rake and forward controls!!! StO0pId!!!

Imagine a 115 HP engine in a Buell or Sportster frame. Now THAT would sell!

:tour


I was watching a show on television about the R&D and testing of the V-Rod. Evidently the reason for the extra rake on the front end was because wind tunnel tests revealed that the front wheel was deflecting needed airflow from the radiator. Rakeing the front end solved this problem.As any extra rake you put in the front end makes the bike corespondinly harder to handle,and pressure was building to get the bike into production, this was a design sacrifice Harley felt it had to make at that stage of the game.

flathead45
26th December 2004, 17:56
well, an old "T"

RedRider
26th December 2004, 18:01
Flathead, they probably didn't tell you, but the t-shirt they were gonna throw in is a pink one with Brittany Spears on it... That's not your "look", is it? :D

flathead45
26th December 2004, 18:06
I LOVE BRITTNEY !!!!!!

guess I'll be trading her in now :toungelau

















not

RedRider
26th December 2004, 18:08
Maybe not.... but you probably wouldn't mind having her on the back of your scoot (or other places...) :D

flathead45
26th December 2004, 18:17
dude, I've got children older than her

but it is a nice thought :nosee

RedRider
26th December 2004, 18:19
Don't ask, don't tell, man... :laugh

flathead45
26th December 2004, 18:35
ok back on topic my 30 year old sporty will get me more money than what it was worth new (lots more) but as we all know most 30 year old bikes are not with the original buyer so like me I won't make much money trying to sell it but I will get what I payed for it

not that I'm selling mind you 'spesialy since "spit-in-me beers" :smackh I mean brittney spears will be riding on the back :love1

willprevale
26th December 2004, 18:40
I mean brittney spears will be riding on the back :love1

Now that's what I call a positive attitude.... or drunk :laugh

Turbota
26th December 2004, 18:57
flathead45 Quote: "ok back on topic my 30 year old sporty will get me more money than what it was worth new (lots more)
__________________________________________________ ____

That's all fine and dandy, but considering the Consumer Price Index (inflation) has increased 314% in the last 30 years ... that bike has lost you lots of money ... Of course, had you kept that same money in a tin box buried in your back yard for the last 30 years, I would say you made a good investment. :)

flathead45
26th December 2004, 19:10
unfortunetly I didn't buy it new so my profit won't be anywares near that if I had bought it new. about all I could hope for would be to get my money back so if I sold it after say another 5 years and got my money back then it would just be like having a free bike to use which I guess is about all we can wish for

now my wla dad bought in 58 for $185 and now its worth about 7-8000 thats a killer profit in my book

Desertfox
26th December 2004, 20:25
now my wla dad bought in 58 for $185 and now its worth about 7-8000 thats a killer profit in my book[/QUOTE



if you had a stock portfolio that performed that well you would be doing well indeed

lefty
27th December 2004, 00:15
:smoke I rode a v-rod at the stealer at an open house a few weeks back. Nice ride, and boatloads of zoom, but there is just something about it, maybe several things, that don't appeal to me. . .first it doesn't sound like a Harley, and I like the sound of an air cooled, old fashioned, pushrod v-twin. . .and an air cleaner cover where the gas tank should be. . .something wrong with that. . .as someone mentioned earlier though, the wheels are eye-catching. . .but as Indian Larry says, a motorcycle should have at least one spoked wheel. . .Wheel preference is as individual as bikes themselves, but don't fall for the old "solid wheels are sails" myth. . .High school physics will teach you that a spoke wheel spinning fast has virtually the same wind resistance as a solid wheel. . .

Lefty

Desertfox
27th December 2004, 19:55
That's all fine and dandy, but considering the Consumer Price Index (inflation) has increased 314% in the last 30 years ... that bike has lost you lots of money ... Of course, had you kept that same money in a tin box buried in your back yard for the last 30 years, I would say you made a good investment. :)[/QUOTE]


Lessee, taking around $2300 wich is about what a Sporty went for back in '72. 314% of that is $7222. One could easily give that for cherry '72 ironhead. Try getting that for your '72 Dodge Aspen . While inflation accounts for much, it's a long ways from losing lots of money. IF you left that $2300 burried in a tin box, you'd have $2300 in 2004 dollars. Now THAT'S losing a whole LOT of money

flathead45
27th December 2004, 20:09
$2120 is the price listed on the xl list for a xlh , I payed $1700 for my xlch with pussy button start so its the same as an xlh and $900 for my trannie thats $2600 so I got mine for roughly the same as 72 prices its not cherry but its worth probably around 4500-5500 range I might even get more
but I've seen freinds let 70's sportys go for 2000-3000 around here

all in all its well worth the money I spent on it even if it was more than the 70's list price

does gold or land hold its value like that ?

Desertfox
27th December 2004, 20:14
Yeah, I'm going to be hunting one of those $2000-$3000 Iron heads this summer I think :burnout

Moved On
28th December 2004, 01:14
High school physics will teach you that a spoke wheel spinning fast has virtually the same wind resistance as a solid wheel.I don't remember that lesson... I'm not saying you're wrong, I just want to do the math on my calculator and I'm not sure what principle I need to lookup.

Gary

dabronco
28th December 2004, 04:09
If spokes were shaped like little airfoils, I'd say maybe. But they ain't.

Barry Clark
28th December 2004, 04:19
If spokes were shaped like little airfoils, I'd say maybe. But they ain't.My ignorance my be showing, but from what I can figure, due to how the wheel is introduced to the wind, the two should not act too much different from each other. Even in a turn the the flat of the wheel really isn't exposed as drag enough to be concerned about. The part that I would see as bringing the most drag is the rim where the wheel meets the tire and this is present on both types. Even in turns the front wheel is oriented into the wind where as the rear might experience some wind resistance due to angle. The only way that I could say that you could kill this off is to have a foil wrap around the tires to keep as little air from hitting them as possible. I can only imagine that this would maybe shave the tiniest fractions of a second off of a drag time. Like I said, my ignorance may be showing.

wickedsprint
28th December 2004, 04:48
My 2005 1200C still has eight replaceable cam bearings. As far as the transmission "trapdoor", many see that as an improvement. When someone in a twincam makes a negative comment, remind them that your Sporty is a quadcam.


How is making it required to split the cases to do any trans work on a design that doesnt break trap doors with more power than any member here is making..just curious is all :)

Moved On
28th December 2004, 04:55
My ignorance my be showing, but from what I can figure, due to how the wheel is introduced to the wind, the two should not act too much different from each other....I have a buddy with a '03 Screaming Eagle RoadKing. That model has the solid front rims. He said that in a cross wind it is much harder to steer (maintain a straight line) than his old RK with the spoked wheels.

Gary

dabronco
28th December 2004, 05:10
Yes! The key word here is CROSSWIND!

Barry Clark
28th December 2004, 11:54
I have a buddy with a '03 Screaming Eagle RoadKing. That model has the solid front rims. He said that in a cross wind it is much harder to steer (maintain a straight line) than his old RK with the spoked wheels.

Gary
Ah, yes. Special circumstance. In that case, anything with a flat enough surface will act like a rudder.

He should have bought a Sporty! haha. :smoke

Barry Clark
28th December 2004, 12:26
I have been thinking about this for awhile. It is possible to, over a period of time expose the same amount of surface area with a spoked wheel to a condition as a solid might. However, the rate at which the wheel would have to rotate would be incredible from what I can figure. A way to test this would be to start spinning a spoked wheel with a light on one side shining through the rim. Spin the wheel gradually faster and, when light stops passing through, then you have reached the speed necessary for the wheel to act solid. This would be on the same principle as walking or running in the rain.

wickedsprint
28th December 2004, 12:59
I don't think you could spin it fast enough to stop light..unless you were spinning it to the point the spokes were going at the speed of light. The spokes are a finite amount of surface area..spinning them faster does not increase the surface area, it may blur them to your vision, but the same gaps are still there.

If ya'lls theory were true a jet engine or propeller would work less efficiently the faster you spin it because it would create more wind resistance for the aircraft when in actuality the resistance is directly proportional to the aircafts speed and the fixed surface area of the prop blades. Hell a turbine can spin north of a hundred thousand rpm and it still manages to suck more air in the faster it goes.

pquirk
28th December 2004, 13:55
don't think you could spin it fast enough to stop light..unless you were spinning it to the point the spokes were going at the speed of light. The spokes are a finite amount of surface area..spinning them faster does not increase the surface area, it may blur them to your vision, but the same gaps are still there.

That pretty much sums it up.

Barry Clark
28th December 2004, 14:19
I don't think you could spin it fast enough to stop light..unless you were spinning it to the point the spokes were going at the speed of light. The spokes are a finite amount of surface area..spinning them faster does not increase the surface area, it may blur them to your vision, but the same gaps are still there.
True. The surface area doesn't change. The exposed area over a period of time does. For instance, if you have two water droppers over a fan laid on its back and the fan is moving very, very slow, you will not get very much water on the blades. However, if you speed the blades up some, then you will get wetter blades.

wickedsprint
28th December 2004, 16:53
That water dripping theory does not fly, if the blade is exposed more during high speed, so is the blank spot that is trailing the blade.

The EXPOSED area over time does NOT change if you are looking at the WHOLE propeller. I think YOU are looking at the propeller from the window the size of a water drop aimed at a specific part of the propeller, air can go around the blades because the void spots still exist...but if you view the ENTIRE propeller at speed, ONLY the finite surface area is exposed over time, no more..no less.

Basically for YOUR theory to be disproven would only require alot more water droppers, I hope you see why :)

Barry Clark
28th December 2004, 18:10
What is happening is increasing the opportunity for incidence.

The space doesn't change but the space doesn't move either.

Truly, if you kept the fan as it was but scaled the amount of water up, more water would get through. If, however, you increase the number of blades and adjust speed, I think you will see far less water get through with the exception of what falls off the blades.

Same should apply to wind on a spoked wheel. I say that and I am certainly not anything remotely resembling an expert in this field.

I will see if I can get an experiment going with my daughter's bike and a normal house fan. I don't have the know-how to give numbers but I can tell whether or not air is coming through significantly slower or not. I will post it.

wickedsprint
28th December 2004, 18:38
Increasing the number of blades adds surface area..spinning the propeller faster does not add blades NOR increase the surface area. You theory is still flawed friend, I still maintain that you are not looking at the propeller as a whole. If you increase the chance of a collision through faster blades..you ALSO increase the chance of air passing through since the void between the blades STILL exists and is moving JUST AS FAST as the blades themselves. I am not an expert either but I do have alot of experience with airplanes and have taken a ton of aerodynamics classes.

flathead45
28th December 2004, 18:39
boy , you knumbsculls will argue over anything won't ya

cross winds will effect anything , carry a screen door and a wooden door in the wind and you'll end up going were ya don't want to go

drive with your fly open and see if it slows ya down

do ya go faster before or after breakfast

shave your hairy backs before a race and your sure to win
:smiliesig :smiliesig :smiliesig :smiliesig :smiliesig :smiliesig :smiliesig :smiliesig

oh well back to the fun and games , a solid wheel will slow down acceleration due to mass

Barry Clark
28th December 2004, 18:58
Increasing the number of blades adds surface area..spinning the propeller faster does not add blades NOR increase the surface area. Right, but my point was that you can't scale up one part of the experiment and not the others. That would be the flaw there. As far as the rest goes, I do not really know. That is why I am gonna have to see for myself. If you have done this stuff before, then you are more likely right. I just need to see it for myself.

Barry Clark
28th December 2004, 18:59
boy , you knumbsculls will argue over anything won't ya
hehe. You spelled numskulls wrong :D . hehe. Sorry. I just had too!

NEW ARGUMENT! NEW ARGUMENT!

Is numskull hyphenated or not?

flathead45
28th December 2004, 19:05
hehe. You spelled numb-skulls wrong :D . hehe. Sorry. I just had too!

NEW ARGUMENT! NEW ARGUMENT!

Is numb-skull hyphenated or not?


see your not even sure how to spell (k)numb(-)scull , up here in the frozen tundra we need the extra K for wormth (kinda like a stocking cap)

stocking cap now theres a good one , why is it a stocking "cap" ? a cap has a brim on the front hats have brims that go all the way around

wickedsprint
28th December 2004, 19:07
Right, but my point was that you can't scale up one part of the experiment and not the others. That would be the flaw there.

I am not scaling up anything...the void moves just as fast as the blade, move one faster..the other goes the same speed..more of a chance to hit the blade..also more of a chance to hit open air.

If you were correct airplane propellers and desk fans would push less air at higher rpms because the propellers blades would be getting in the way of letting the airflow pass through :)

The only reason props lose efficiency at high rotational speeds is because the tips go supersonic if you spin them too fast (the tip goes faster than the center of the prop because at the same rpm is covering more distance)

flathead45
28th December 2004, 19:09
I don't care how bad your sporty is , your not gonna spin the wheels that fast :p

Barry Clark
28th December 2004, 19:17
I don't care how bad your sporty is , your not gonna spin the wheels that fast :p
Quite right.

Barry Clark
28th December 2004, 19:18
If you were correct airplane propellers and desk fans would push less air at higher rpms because the propellers blades would be getting in the way of letting the airflow pass through :)

I see your point.

lefty
28th December 2004, 20:49
:smoke Rotational wheel axis = the sum of the transient value of pi and the circumference of the radial saw. . .and you cannot forget to factor in the unusual factors usually overlooked! When the wind is blowing from the east on a Monday when the moon is full, watch out!!!!!

Professor Lefty

Barry Clark
28th December 2004, 20:50
:smoke Rotational wheel axis = the sum of the transient value of pi and the circumference of the radial saw. . .and you cannot forget to factor in the unusual factors usually overlooked! When the wind is blowing from the east on a Monday when the moon is full, watch out!!!!!

Professor Lefty
HA! Shows how much you know; the wind never blows from the east if you are a lefty.

wickedsprint
28th December 2004, 21:31
That was the first debate in a loooong time that truly made me think...with both parties throwing in valid arguments for each view..bravo!

Barry Clark
28th December 2004, 22:17
That was the first debate in a loooong time that truly made me think...with both parties throwing in valid arguments for each view..bravo!Yeah. I dig that. :cheers :chtwo

Moved On
28th December 2004, 22:26
I think the whole water experiment just doesn't make any difference at all. Liquids have different properties than gases and your talking about the probability of a single droplet of a different material hitting a spoke. It just doesn't matter. We know that there is air hitting the spokes whether they're moving or not moving, so who cares if the water drop hits anything when we know the air is hitting the spokes anyway.

I think we've missed an important aspect... I don't have the answers but I'll throw out what I'm thinking...

The air streams that are created when the front of the moving tire cut through the air are probably an important factor to consider. You are going to have two streams of compressed air passing by either side of the tire as the bike moves. These compressed air streams are going to act like somewhat solid objects to a crosswind. For example the crosswind will blow over the bike easier than it will cut through the higher pressure air streams. Even if there is no bike there at all, higher pressure airstreams will act as a resistance to the crosswind.

So it would seem that either type of tire would cause the same type of higher pressure streams that the crosswind has to cut through. That would make you figure the rim type doesn't matter. But these higher pressure streams aren't really solid walls, they can be bent. So I'm wondering if they can be bent through a spoked wheel easier than they can be bent through a solid wheel. I figure it is easier to bend them through a spoked wheel. Any bending of the airstreams will offer less resistance to the crosswind thus appear to act as less of a sail.

I dunno know though, I'm just playing armchair physicist :rolleyes:

Gary

flathead45
28th December 2004, 22:31
but now has anyone factored in the centrifugal forces and gyroscopic forces that force the wheel to stay on track ?

Moved On
28th December 2004, 22:51
I don't think centrifugal forces make any difference. Gyroscopic forces would be greater in a solid wheel (more mass) so seems lik the would help it some. Don't know what those are though and what their magnitude is relative to the force of the crosswind. Without real numbers it's anyones guess.

Gary

wickedsprint
29th December 2004, 01:35
I had a bicycle when I was 7.

dabronco
29th December 2004, 03:26
I've found that the crosswind actually acts upon the wheel in such a manner as to cause it to turn away from the wind thus banking you into the wind. Headwind has always been more of a pain in the ass.

dabronco
29th December 2004, 03:29
Oh and I also had a bicycle when I was seven. And a go-kart.

Barry Clark
29th December 2004, 13:09
I had a bicycle and a mini-bike.

dabronco
29th December 2004, 14:22
I WANTED a mini bike.

dwardy
29th December 2004, 14:31
I've made calculations based on the Newton model and taking into account the inverse crosswind ratio... including the saturation quotient, non-linear divergence, and the fundamental velocity and I've determined that the answer is...




























































22
;)

01Sporty
29th December 2004, 14:59
I've determined that the answer is...
22
;)

Sorry dwardy, you better double-check your math, I came up with 20.77.
I did it three times just to make sure.

Happy New Year Everyone,

Barry Clark
29th December 2004, 15:15
Actually, it is 42.

alleydude
29th December 2004, 16:56
What was this thread about? :hijack

flathead45
29th December 2004, 17:24
after 10 pages I don't think anyone knows anymore

and for those of you who don't beleave that 42 is the answer :shhhh look here if you dare (http://www.empirenet.com/~dljones/) :shhhh

all your questions will be answered

01Sporty
29th December 2004, 17:59
and for those of you who don't beleave that 42 is the answer

Oh I believe that's the answer you got flathead, it's just not the "correct" answer. :)

To quote "Ghostbuster's"(c)...
:wonderlan "Back off Jack, we're scientists" :wonderlan

flathead45
29th December 2004, 18:14
42 IS the answer , the answer to life the universe and everything

DEEP THOUGHT is the name of the computer created by some hyper-intelligent pan dimensional beings who took on the form of mice when they came to our dimension. Deep Thought, in turn, made the Earth as a computer to calculate the Question and deep thought determaned that the answer is "42" . but to better understand the answer you must first understand the question

Moved On
29th December 2004, 18:18
after 10 pages I don't think anyone knows anymore

and for those of you who don't beleave that 42 is the answer :shhhh look here if you dare (http://www.empirenet.com/~dljones/) :shhhh

all your questions will be answeredOh my gawd you're right Flathead !!!

Convert the letters of the word "Iron sulfide" into numbers of the alphabet. (Iron sulfide being (for the record) the true name of fools gold.) I.e:

I R O N S U L F I D E
9 18 15 14 19 21 12 6 9 4 5

Now then, Adding up the first 3 digits yields a total of 42. Adding up the next 3 digits makes 54, which is what 42 would be in base 10, if 42 was originally written as base 13 (The significance of which is widely known). Adding up the rest gets you 36, which is 42 written in base 12.If you now take that same true logic and apply it to "IRON HEAD", you get:

I R O N H E A D
9 18 15 14 8 5 1 4

9 + 18 + 15 = 42
14 + 8 + 5 + 1 + 4 = 32

and 32 in base 13, is 41 in base 10. Which is cool cause no one wants to ride a stock bike, ya gotta knock something off to make it your own ride. :geek :clap :clap

E V O
5 22 15

5 + 22 + 15 = 32

Once again 32 in base 13, is 41 in base 10. Which is cool cause no one wants to ride a stock bike, ya gotta knock something off to make it your own ride. :geek :clap :clap

At least neither of us have rubber mounts...

R U B B E R X L
18 21 2 2 5 18 24 12

18 + 21 + 2 + 2 + 5 + 18 = 66
24 + 12 = 36 = 6 squared

Therefore RUBBER XL = 666 :yikes

Woo Hoo...
Speaking of post padding, I just realised that this is the 100th reply in this thread... what was the topic again ?????

Gary

flathead45
29th December 2004, 18:23
I knew gazza would back me up on this one (I think?)

alleydude
29th December 2004, 18:38
after 10 pages I don't think anyone knows anymore

and for those of you who don't beleave that 42 is the answer :shhhh look here if you dare (http://www.empirenet.com/~dljones/) :shhhh

all your questions will be answered

Oh crap, now my head hurts. :yikes

flathead45
29th December 2004, 18:39
spooky ain't it? kinda like the lincoln- kennedy thing

01Sporty
29th December 2004, 18:58
Ok, I'm going to have to back out of this thread for awhile.

My anti-spyware, alien foil beanie was in the luggage that got lost last week, and I never do Base10, hexidecimal and binary math without it. :tour

flathead45
29th December 2004, 19:01
01 just change the subject again, like everyone else has done here , then you'll be the better brain on the subject at hand ;)

xl1200r
29th December 2004, 19:05
We need to clear some things up here....

As far as cross winds on a solid vs spoked wheel, they will both act very similarly. The water experiment does in fact, well, hold water.

Although liquids and gasses CAN behave differently, they are both fluids, and shay many of the same properties. The bottom line is they are both made up of particles, and these particles are moving.

Take a spoked wheel. Lay it on it's side and spin it VERY slowly. It is very unlikely that any amount of water will hit the spokes because of how little surface area there is. If you spin the wheel faster, you are infact artificially increasing the surface area because the water drops are falling at the same speed. If you have a slow spinning wheel, it's possible to throw a ball through it. Try it with a fast spinning wheel. The actual surface area doesn't increase, but because the fluid trying to pass trough has volume to it, it becomes more and more likely to be hit as the wheel accelerates. Also, the turbulence created within the rim will help to cause this to happen. A soild wheel will deflect more wind all the time, but a spoked wheel will deflect a lot of wind once it starts spining fast enough.

The "light" experiment is completly bogus. It acts very differently than wind. When wind hits something, it can bend and change direction. While light does this to a certain extent with certain materials, you generally have a blocking or passing through effect. Would this mean that a peice of glass would not have any wind resistance becuase light can pass through it?

As for the cam bearing thing, so what. Just about any OHC cam car engine does this (I am unsure about bikes). Some of the most bullet-proof engines use this. The Chrysler 2.2 and 2.5L 4 cyl have to cam bearings, and Ford's 4.6 SOHC and it's varients also do not have any cam bearings. This is just an example of harley utiizing technology that has exsisted since the late 70's. The materials can take it...I promise.

The v-rod engine is a varient of the VR-1000 engine. It's a harley enigine, built by harley. Porsche worked with harley engineers to make it a streetable package.

Moved On
29th December 2004, 19:12
Fer sure, we don't want to take any chances that we will reach 200 replies in this thread without changing the topic a couple more times :laugh

Gazza

alleydude
29th December 2004, 19:22
We need to clear some things up here....

Take a spoked wheel. Lay it on it's side and spin it VERY slowly. It is very unlikely that any amount of water will hit the spokes because of how little surface area there is. If you spin the wheel faster, you are infact artificially increasing the surface area because the water drops are falling at the same speed. If you have a slow spinning wheel, it's possible to throw a ball through it. Try it with a fast spinning wheel. The actual surface area doesn't increase, but because the fluid trying to pass trough has volume to it, it becomes more and more likely to be hit as the wheel accelerates.

So you're saying, in theory, if you could spin a spoked wheel fast enough, you could effectively block ALL water or air from passing through?

When trying to consider theories such as this it's easiest to think of things in their extremes. All, or nothing. No, you couldn't block everything, no matter how fast it spins. The chance that any given air molecule may strike a spoke on the way through is irrelevant. All that changes is the amount of turbulence created by the spinning spokes, which is something the solid rim has none of (or very little).

And by the way, Mythbusters proved that you get just as wet walking in the rain as running in the rain over a fixed distance. This was done by weighing cloths soaked with water from doing both of the above. Both sets of cloths weighed the same after multiple attempts at varying speed.

Moved On
29th December 2004, 19:23
We need to clear some things up here....But a point object is very different than a crosswind. To do the water experiment you can't consider a single drop (or a baseball) you have to put the wheel inside a pipe with a steady flow of water across the whole rim surface. If you have a steady stream of water across the entire wheel, then all the spokes will get wet, and all the gaps will still pass water.

If you gotta keep going back to the water drop experiment consider this... If you aligh the dropper over a single spoke on a rim that is not rotating, then you will have 100% chance of hitting a spoke everytime that you release a drop. If you then rotate the wheel you will have a less than 100% chance of hitting a spoke. All you're doing is playing with the probability that you will hit a spoke with a point object, it has nothing to do with a constant fluid flow across the entire rim.

Gary

Moved On
29th December 2004, 19:25
And by the way, Mythbusters proved that you get just as wet walking in the rain as running in the rain over a fixed distance.This is a good problem to submit to those folks :D

At least that we could move on to changing the topic again :clap :clap :clap

Gary

xl1200r
29th December 2004, 19:33
I understood the mythbusters experiment to conclude that you got more wet when you ran...

As for using a single drop, I only did that because it's hard to imagine a single drop in a steady flow. And it doen't really have anything to do with probablilty. A spinning wheel will hit more particles of air than a non-spinning or slow spinning wheel will. Also, if you deflect one partcle of air, it's going to hit a deflect another particle of air, and so on. I'm not looking at this as an extreme. Of course, if it were possible to spin it fast enough, I'm confident that you could stop all particles of air. All I'm saying is that with how fast the spokes are moving, they are stopping a lot of it.

Now your all going to make me do an experiment with colored smoke going through a moving wheel...

You'll never stop ALL of the wind from passing through, but you can stop a lot of it.

Moved On
29th December 2004, 19:34
I submitted the question to Myth Busters... We'll see if those guys are interested in getting a couple bikes and riding them around in the wind :D

Gary

twinsporty
29th December 2004, 19:37
But in any experiment remember the Heisenberg uncertainty principle. You can never predict anything with absolute certainty. Its all about Quantum theory :clap

Moved On
29th December 2004, 19:44
But in any experiment remember the Heisenberg uncertainty principle. You can never predict anything with absolute certainty. Its all about Quantum theory :clapI hate that freakin cat, I hope it's really dead already.

Gazza

twinsporty
29th December 2004, 19:47
I'm not sure Shrodinger can't measure its vitals :laugh

TiBaal89
29th December 2004, 19:50
nevermind all that jiberish... its all about trying to find a pattern to the prime numbers!! :smoke

dabronco
30th December 2004, 01:53
"My brain hurts!"

flathead45
30th December 2004, 02:05
you all lost me with shrodinger and hiesenberg so I'm posting a bunny with a pancake on its head

flathead45
30th December 2004, 02:14
http://brawl-hall.com/gallery/data20/media/5/bunny1.jpg

xl1200r
31st December 2004, 19:52
Can't go wrong with a bunny with a pancake on it's head...

Desertfox
31st December 2004, 20:46
http://brawl-hall.com/gallery/data20/media/5/bunny1.jpg



MmmmmmmmmmmmmmmPancakes and bunny (Homer Simpson voice)

flathead45
31st December 2004, 21:26
would you like syrup on that ?

SportsterBart
31st December 2004, 22:00
History of the bunny (http://www.syberpunk.com/cgi-bin/index.pl?page=oolong)

He was Japanese. Not that there is anything wrong with that. Poor little fella. :p


Bart

flathead45
31st December 2004, 22:09
http://www.syberpunk.com/images/oolong/linked/soba3.jpg

sadly oolong the bunny with stuff on his head passed away


he must have been trying to balance a ciderblockon his head

RedRider
31st December 2004, 22:51
:hijack Aren't we overdue for a cat thread?.... Here kitty, kitty, kitty....

Barry Clark
6th January 2005, 02:50
That was the first debate in a loooong time that truly made me think...with both parties throwing in valid arguments for each view..bravo!

Thread back from the dead.

K.

I ran the fan through the daughter's bicycle wheel. With slow motion, the air readily passed through. The faster I spinned the wheel, the less the air came through. Now, I am not necessarily saying this is because of any artificial increase in surface area, but it did happen. Outside of my initial thought, I also think that the spinning spokes could be causing a distubance and creating a pad of air on both sides of the wheel effectively creating a surface for a cross-wind to push against. Just a thought.

Moved On
6th January 2005, 03:37
Now thats a good experiment I like that...
But heres a little wrench to throw into the confusion... If you're driving at 60mph then the spoke that is sticking straight up from the axle is cutting the air at 120mph and the spoke that is pointing straight down is not moving at all relative to surrounding air. So the wind blockage is greatest at the top of the wheel and effectively nothing at the bottom. Still less than a solid wheel.

Gary

alleydude
6th January 2005, 13:19
Now thats a good experiment I like that...
But heres a little wrench to throw into the confusion... If you're driving at 60mph then the spoke that is sticking straight up from the axle is cutting the air at 120mph and the spoke that is pointing straight down is not moving at all relative to surrounding air. So the wind blockage is greatest at the top of the wheel and effectively nothing at the bottom. Still less than a solid wheel.

Gary

LMFAO! There's always ONE of you in a crowd, isn't there???

:smiliesig

flathead45
6th January 2005, 13:23
so there you go gary , you just explained why wind affects moving bikes soo much , cause the top of the wheel gets more air hitting it nd the bottom doesn't . so see cross winds do blow bikes around
but I guess that means that solid wheels arn't affected by cross winds cause the air hits it the same at the top as the bottom

dabronco
7th January 2005, 02:30
The ground is holding the bottom of the wheel.

dabronco
7th January 2005, 02:33
Let's face it folks, unless you're in a sailboat or a sailplane, wind both sucks AND blows!

alleydude
7th January 2005, 02:54
The ground is holding the bottom of the wheel.

IS IT? Or is the wheel holding the GROUND???

:eek: :yikes :rolleyes:

Barry Clark
7th January 2005, 03:16
The ground is holding the bottom of the wheel.
:laugh This was one condition my now-worthless experiment failed to consider. :laugh

brocluno
21st September 2013, 17:11
Whether the wheel is holding the ground or gravity is doing it all, the V-Rod's resale value is zilch. Nice bikes - but ...

My bud who owns the local H-D rental shop and occasionally sells bikes for the cash-needy folks, has a late model V-Rod that he can't sell for $5K. We're thinking maybe $2,500 ...

That sucks for a very nice lo mile straight bike :(

Any decent used Sporty will fetch $4,500 around here. So the value equation is defined by the resale price and the V-Rod doesn't seem to cut it :frownthre

CNY1200
21st September 2013, 17:53
Congrats on your new Sporty MisterB! Ya can't go wrong with an XL, in my humble opinion it is the most versatile bike made. :clap

Skooter, I didn't know about the V-Rod having machined bearing surfaces. I learn something new every day here. Good post :)





Ha! - I share that sentiment about the XL HD's being some of the most versatile Naked Standards on the motorcycle market - the other best bang as an all rounder is Kawi's zrx1200r - also a naked std, easily moddable, under seat storage that is amazing and low $ buy in :clap

I own one of ea. - I have tried having just an XL or just a ZRX - but one is V-Twin magic and the other is lightning fast, torquey and smooth as silk :banadanc:clap


V-Rod is a nice motorcycle - but there are many bikes I would own before that one unless I got a screamng deal

brocluno
22nd September 2013, 03:05
That's my point, to make most of us buy a V-Rod - it needs to be a screaming deal.

A nice Sporty, just a regular good deal and we'll be lookin at the bank balance :D

Vanmor
8th October 2013, 22:52
I like the V-Rod. What I don't like is the fact you can't take the heads off without removing the engine. If these bikes are cheap, then the first thing somebody needs to do is section the frame and install flanges where that section can be taken out for head removal. That was a common pratice on the old Honda SOHC CB750K. It was really hard to remove the head on that bike, so a lot of people sectioned the frame above the engine.

Machined bearing surfaces in overhead cam design motorcycles has been around for decades. Honda had a lot of issues in the 1980's with that. It's all about the oiling.

Say what you want about V-Rods, but they are a fast bike for a V-Twin. Those engines were HD designed road race engines before they found their way into the V-Rod. That is also the engine the drag racers use although they are highly modified.

If these bikes are going for $2500, I need to go buy one. I have more than that in my old ragged 87' EVO.

CNY1200
9th October 2013, 10:02
Whether the wheel is holding the ground or gravity is doing it all, the V-Rod's resale value is zilch. Nice bikes - but ...

My bud who owns the local H-D rental shop and occasionally sells bikes for the cash-needy folks, has a late model V-Rod that he can't sell for $5K. We're thinking maybe $2,500 ...

That sucks for a very nice lo mile straight bike :(

Any decent used Sporty will fetch $4,500 around here. So the value equation is defined by the resale price and the V-Rod doesn't seem to cut it :frownthre

wow - if he wants to sell a v-rod for $2500 - pm me

hoggy
9th October 2013, 10:20
:banana reintroduce the NOVA:banadanc