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View Full Version : How Much FREEDOM Will You Give Up?


hdmc_ru2
4th September 2007, 07:05
That whole thread about license plate scanner technology got me thinking, especially reading some peoples posts about how it will be good because it catches criminals.

How much of your freedom are you willing to give up?...Enter MICRO-CHIP technology. I am asking your opinion after you read this. (I posted some of this in the other thread but I thought it deserves it's own.)

We could all just have a simple implant under our skin.

No more money to change hands, just go to a store and grab what you want, as you walk back out your bill is added up in a second and your account is charged. Criminals will need to find another way to market their goods because there will be no more cash to change hands.

No more need for credit cards, what ever you need just scan and go. It better be legal though, or you won't be able to pay for it. What's legal today may be illegal tomorrow, what ever the MAN says goes.

Gas stations, bars, country fairs, Harley dealerships, just charge what you need or want, taxes automatically calculated of course. Don't have enough money in your account? Well you ain't getting out the door, that simple.

No more need for locks or keys, when you approach your house or car the doors automatically unlock, just push the button to start your car, your car knows its you! Sure there is a keypad for guests.

No need for GPS, your chip is the one tracked by satellite now. Make it too fast from point "A" to point "B" and expect the fine will be automatically debited from your account. No presumption of innocents, YOUR GUILTY, the chip said so.

That's right, no more courts, not needed in this new world.

Police force as we know it is not needed either. Nope. It would work like this. Your chip just detected you are no longer breathing, an ambulance is automatically dispatched, oh look, you took a knife to the back, lets go back and check out computers and the GPS. Well it looks like your jealous wife was right behind you when you stopped breathing. Right now she is driving down I-95, plus or minus 2 or 3 feet. Better go get her.

The guy that robbed you of your Rolex or punched you in the head, hey, no worries, we know who it was, where they are now, and how to get them.

The question is, how far will you or our society let this go? License tracking today, human tracking tomorrow.

Is it ok for someone to know where you are, and who you are with all of the time? Want to know where your girlfriend or wife is right now, just check the computer, it will tell you if she is in the seafood isle or the cookie isle at the local supermarket.

What about your friend Mike? A few strokes of the keyboard will tell you he is on his way over and about a minute down the road, take a couple beers out of the fridge, rest assured he will be knocking on your door soon.

Hey, even your boss can get in on the action, calling in sick? You better be laying in bed and not at the golf course!

What about if you already have an implanted chip without giving permission? Have you had an operation or a filling at the dentist lately?

Think it is far fetched? What about your cell phone? Can it track your whereabouts even if it is turned off? What about the microphone on it? Can "someone" listen to your conversations even if it is turned off right now? Think about it, how far is too far?

What ways can you think of that Micro-Chip Implants could be used? The possibilities are endless.

Will you get one to prevent crime, stop terrorism?

bud095
4th September 2007, 07:08
it sucks but what can you do!:frownone

TheForce
4th September 2007, 07:09
Though I wouldn't get one, they are coming to a hand or forehead near you.

khaskins
4th September 2007, 07:10
I will not accept "The Mark". The government will not be able to make me.

u8mymeat
4th September 2007, 07:13
Cool, no need to go back numerous times to the ATM while gambling!!!!

DC in PHX
4th September 2007, 07:42
i'll just stock up on ammo and canned food and move to a cabin in Idaho (although nowhere near an Idaho Senator:shhhh ):rolleyes:

DC

smackie
4th September 2007, 08:07
hell no. never.

fnoblitt
4th September 2007, 08:27
it is coming,it will happen,no one can stop it ! you can read about it in the book of revalation (last book of the bible). if you are in tune with god,then you have no worrys .

Vegas1200C
4th September 2007, 08:38
Wait, I think I saw this movie. Didn't end well and there wasn't any good nudity.

Or was it a book written about 59 years ago about what would happen 23 years ago?

I think how it works is you take someone elses chip and implant it in yourself. Then Arnold or Tom or which ever star is in in the movie can run around and fight the evil powers that put it in them.

If I had a nickel for everytime someone said "no really, this is gonna happen" I'd have a shitload of nickels.

bud095
4th September 2007, 08:56
who says their not watching you (us) already anyway. btw: 1984 was a good movie.....imho

bplinson
4th September 2007, 09:27
There is no reason for any individual to have a computer in his home. - Ken Olsen (1926 - ), President, Digital Equipment, 1977

"It was terribly dangerous to let your thoughts wander when you were in any public place or within range of a telescreen. The smallest thing could give you away. A nervous tic, an unconscious look of anxiety, a habit of muttering to yourself--anything that carried with it the suggestion of abnormality, of having something to hide. In any case, to wear an improper expression on your face...; was itself a punishable offense. There was even a word for it in Newspeak: facecrime..." - George Orwell, 1984, Book 1, Chapter 5

“The sound shivers through the walls, through the table, through the window frame, and into my finger. These distraction-oholics. These focus-ophobics. Old George Orwell got it backward. Big Brother isn't watching. He's singing and dancing. He's pulling rabbits out of a hat. Big Brother's holding your attention every moment you're awake. He's making sure you're always distracted. He's making sure you're fully absorbed... and this being fed, it's worse than being watched. With the world always filling you, no one has to worry about what's in your mind. With everyone's imagination atrophied, no one will ever be a threat to the world.” - Chuck Palahniuk

hdmc_ru2
4th September 2007, 15:46
who says their not watching you (us) already anyway. btw: 1984 was a good movie.....imho

I never did see that movie, I'll have to check it out.

bplinson
4th September 2007, 15:48
I also really do think that this will ever happen on a global scale.

Unless there was a world government that mandated this kind of tracking I doubt if any government would attempt this on their own....well except for maybe a dictatorship of some kind.

Does anyone really think that the wealthy and politicians of our world would allow themselves to be tracked at all times. But of course politicians would probably be exempt from the tracking chips.

Hot Rod Sporty
4th September 2007, 15:52
Paranoid much???

:smoke

milmat1
4th September 2007, 16:01
Hmmm.. Maybe, But that will be After the fight !!

I remember hearing the same stuff about the Automated checkout system, And the Bank Cards etc. Big brother is already watching you and me.
Hell right now all that needs to happen is the VISA system go to hell. It does this every now and then anyway.
When it goes down, Theres no ATM, Can't buy food, gas, Nothing. So in a sense they already have you !!! ( better have some Johnny Cash put back!)
A Cip would not prevent crime !! It would mean that instead of having your wallet stolen, They would chop off your arm !! OUCH !!

dagsportster
4th September 2007, 16:30
I guess I don't lead that interesting a life (so much that I would be concerned if other people knew what books I read or where I went). I suppose if I were dodging taxes, making moonshine, burying estranged family members in the woods or running guns across the border, I might have a different point-of-view. :rolleyes:

unfiguroutable
4th September 2007, 16:34
i understand your argument well. how ever it wont be the freedom fighter strugle you wax romantical about. as time moves forward so does technology. as it does there is usually a segment of society that fears that change. those that fear new I.D. technologies wont be hunted down, they will however have issues with social integration and will not be able to buy and sell as easily as others.

langner91
4th September 2007, 16:37
The day they get GPS to work indoors, I will worry. Until then, no issues.

Hell, GPS cannot even work in my Chevy Venture because of the metallic window tinting film. I would just have to keep that baby going a little longer.

ReddTigger
4th September 2007, 16:50
They have satellites that can read the serial number off of a dollar bill.
They have Ez-Pass, Speed pass, Quick pay and the like.
They have Intelligent Keys that do not need to be inserted into a cylinder for the car to open, have your seat adjusted and car started.
England has a CTV network that is extensive to say the least.

it will happen someday. It may not be my lifetime, maybe my children's lifetime, or my grandchildren's lifetime. They've got it for dogs and horses.

And yes there will be a resistance..

CT1200
4th September 2007, 17:09
THX1138...
Watch it and learn.
We'll be there someday.
Maybe not you and me maybe not our kids.
But maybe the grand kids, great grand kids.
It will happen.
Who is not tracked by metrics every step they do at work?

Quebeker
4th September 2007, 17:09
... I doubt if any government would attempt this on their own....

Here is how I think a government would do it on their own citizens:
They would start with criminals, lets say sexual predators at first. Almost everybody would agree that we need to track down that kind of people, it's to protect the children.
Then they would add convicts of different crimes slowly so we don't notice or maybe we don't really care anymore.
Next would be newborn babies. We always have have to protect our children don't we?
Next thing you know, everybody's got one.


But of course politicians would probably be exempt from the tracking chips.

I'm sure there is a draft of an amendment ready to go to congress right now.


And, I will run to the hills.

Run to the hills Run for your lives
Run to the hills Run for your lives
---------------------------------

I'm running free yeah, I'm running free
I'm running free yeah, I'm running free
---------------------------------

SportyJoe
4th September 2007, 17:19
not just NO... but HELL NO

loki03xlh
4th September 2007, 17:53
They can put a chip in me right after I let them have my guns.


Never!!!!!!!!

semjpm
4th September 2007, 18:08
They will sell it as security. Your chip activates your car - no car theft, your chip activates your new expensive (and required for purchase) gun, and all the other things that others have mentioned. The truth is that as soon as these devices come to market spoofing of them will become an industry and the burden of proof will shift from innocent until proven guilty to guilty (because of identity theft) until you can prove your innocence.

SEMJPM

Carl-04XL
4th September 2007, 18:12
I can see it now: a vast criminal enterprise dealing in.... faraday cages.

"Hey mister, I see you are not happy with the g-chip. I've got just the thing, but you have to bring me a 'shrubbery'."

Science books will have to be edited to remove any reference to electromagnetic shielding.

And if you did get your 'fix', you would have to wear it forever. Imagine what the g-chip enforcers would do if you kept 're-appearing' with no record of how you got from point A to point B.

Or maybe, instead of shady doctors doing abortions as in years past, you'll go find one that can find and remove the g-chip. But, then you'll forever be part of the underground, or you can recant, get re-chipped and return to 'society'.

ed_in_az
4th September 2007, 18:32
Of course this thread DOES belong in the depths of the P & R section.

What a coincidence that ONE religion predicted just what's being discussed here.:p

beuz
4th September 2007, 18:35
No way..........never !!!

unfiguroutable
4th September 2007, 18:36
Of course this thread DOES belong in the depths of the P & R section.

What a coincidence that ONE religion predicted just what's being discussed here.:p

move the thread

obinella
4th September 2007, 18:51
Of course this thread DOES belong in the depths of the P & R section.

What a coincidence that ONE religion predicted just what's being discussed here.:p

yep, and it will be made to look like the best thing since sliced bread, people will line up to get theirs.

unfiguroutable
4th September 2007, 18:55
............................

honkytnkmn
4th September 2007, 18:56
Freedom and security just don't go together, If you give up your freedom for security you'll get neither. So I vote "meet me in the hills" You can have my guns bullets first.

Ok Kev M, your turn! lmao

rwinkelman
4th September 2007, 19:02
All to reminiscent of 1984, Orwell was clairvoyant when he wrote that book. Like hell I will ever let that happen. I can assure you there will be gunfire directed at someone, if they can find me in the mountains. I object to any type of communist intervention from our Shyte heads in DC.

obinella
4th September 2007, 19:08
i understand your argument well. how ever it wont be the freedom fighter strugle you wax romantical about. they will however have issues with social integration and will not be able to buy and sell as easily as others.

I'm not sure if you intended to paraphrase the bible. if that was not your intention you did so with uncanny precision.

unfiguroutable
4th September 2007, 19:14
I'm not sure if you intended to paraphrase the bible. if that was not your intention you did so with uncanny precision.

i am aware that my statment mirrors many interpretations of Rev.13:16-1. I also belive this is coincidental.

Phaedrus
4th September 2007, 19:48
it is coming,it will happen,no one can stop it ! you can read about it in the book of revalation (last book of the bible). if you are in tune with god,then you have no worrys .

Which one Allah?, Budda?

747 FlightEngineer
4th September 2007, 19:51
There are several songs from the late 60's by Zager & Evans titled, In the Year 2525. And another one from that time period by Max Frost called, Shape of Things to Come. It sounds like these tunes are coming true. I have mixed feelings concerning this. On one hand the powers to be can kiss my Red, White, & Blue Ass, and on the other hand if this can kill off the ideology of terrorism and stop them in their tracks then how bad can be?

sprtrjl
4th September 2007, 19:57
This was predicted a couple thousand years ago. It will happen. Hope I'm gone by then. The Bible does not project a very good future for those that are left.

gomorley
4th September 2007, 20:01
I'm not saying I agree with it but it would certainly help with kidnapings, ask Madeline McCanns parents what they think and I'm sure it would change a few minds.http://www.findmadeleine.com/

knightrider213
4th September 2007, 20:30
Recent movies reflect similar ideas. The future set Tom Cruise movie Minority Report where everyones retinas were scanned everywhere they went and he had to get replacement eyes. I also saw a really stupid movie on HBO called Idiocracy where a guy is frozen for 500 years and wakes up to find out that everyone has a barcode tattooed on their left forearm and scanners read the code and track people everywhere they go. Anyone not tattooed was arrested and processed with a tattoo before being released into the public.

The ideas are out there and will be implemented when our scheming leaders figure out how to scare us into believing it's for our own good and the only way to be safe. :frownthre :( :frownone :doh

flathead45
4th September 2007, 23:39
The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself. -Friedrich Nietzsche

http://www.dallmeierart.com/21daa1d70.jpg

Weo
4th September 2007, 23:48
I'm not for 100% monitoring of everybody, but...

The problem is with data inefficiency and translation with rival or outdated programs, such as accounting for processing your paycheck, processing and transporting your insurance and medical records, credit cards and ATM transactions, etc. Would you prefer to fill out a credit app everytime you wanted to use a credit card to pay for gas or would you rather just swipe your card? Would you rather have the freedom to fill out a 100 page application everytime you went to the emergency room or just walk through the door and be ready to be seen? I mean... its currently somewhere between those two points isn't it?

The problem is that people want things easier, but don't want to give up their right to withold private info. The gathering of this info and sharing with groups that need to know is exactly what makes things expensive, time consuming, and redundant.

So instead, the government has to play cat and mouse with criminals and such, because we don't want them to know we watch porno and didn't list that $50 we won playing blackjack last night on our taxes. The problem is, they can use their mouse trap to catch us doing exactly that. But do you really think they will spend $1million dollars in man-hours trying to figure out why your taxes are off $20 or why your car was parked outside of XXX club?

Programs and chips, theoretically, could also help cut down on government and corporate corruption. Of course there's ways around it, but it would be easier to prove and implement than trying to find a corrupted cop or politician taking money under the table.

flathead45
4th September 2007, 23:53
how bout we chip the politicians first to see how they like it

bud095
4th September 2007, 23:54
the point im trying to make is my right to privacy is is in danger:frownthre

Vegas1200C
4th September 2007, 23:58
Wait, I got it now. This is from that cartoon with the irreverent robot, the slacker, the cyclops, the rich kid, a lobster, a reggae administrater and a scientist. Why didn't you say so. I love that show.

flathead45
5th September 2007, 00:02
he wasn't a rich kid.... he was a delivery boy

Vegas1200C
5th September 2007, 00:05
he wasn't a rich kid.... he was a delivery boy

He wasn't the kid I was talking about, Fry would be the slacker. The asian girl was the rich kid.

flathead45
5th September 2007, 00:07
ya I hit my forehead right after posting that but, oh well, what ya gonna do

Crash03
5th September 2007, 00:28
the point im trying to make is my right to privacy is is in danger:frownthre

How so?

Are you being told you can not go somewhere that you used to be able to go?

Let's face it, we've already determined through our court systems etc., that you have no right to privacy outside your residence. You can be followed, photographed, filmed etc.

Our cars have "black boxes" that record how fast you were travelling, how hard you brake, etc.

Credit cards track our purchases, how much and where we spend.

Surveillance cameras track our movements.

IF this chip does EVERYthing people are worried about, what would be new? Nothing. All it would do cetralize things a little.




After saying all that, I am against the chip and would not accept one lightly. The idea just creaps me out! :smoke

flathead45
5th September 2007, 00:35
IF this chip does EVERYthing people are worried about, what would be new? Nothing. All it would do cetralize things a little.

the scary part of a chip is that you would never have any privacy and "they" could check up on you at any time "they" want and the "bad guys" would just cut it out and go on doing bad things

bearsfan
5th September 2007, 00:37
Are you kidding me? I'm still pissed that I have to buy a friggin' passport to get home if I go visit Canada! Then again...maybe a microchip would make that whole deal easier...hmm...wait! NO FRIGGIN' WAY! Just cause someone wasn't doing their job a bunch of terrorists get into the country and blow up our buildings, now everyone has to pay for it. F:censor k that!

milmat1
5th September 2007, 01:51
Just for the Conspiracy Nuts !!

How do you know it isn't already being installed ???

Are you really sure of what all those vaccinations were that we were givin??

Hmmmm....

ct_miller13
5th September 2007, 02:02
Identity theft would take on a whole new meaning!

Shai`tan
5th September 2007, 02:06
We, in reality, we don`t give up our freedoms. We get them taken away from us softsell style by our illustrious leaders. The sheep all step up and accept whatever the Governement says. One day tho, it is gonna come back to bite em in the azz.

nemosengineer@yahoo.com
5th September 2007, 06:03
Its here... Now... You are no longer autonomous... Your personal data is not yours to view or correct... Your record is written in stone... Your family genealogy is on line... We know where you live... We know who you talk to... We know all about your online activites... Your computer calls us to chat, when your not home... Dont be shy... Dont try to hide... We will find you.
Its All True: Mike

Gone
5th September 2007, 06:13
Guess they will just have to stand me against the wall and shoot me. No chip, no how!!. I did not fight for my country to become a prisoner in it, and I will not give up my rights to stay a part of it. So as the poll says meet me in the woods cause " I ain't taken the chip".

Twisty571
5th September 2007, 06:35
Guess they will just have to stand me against the wall and shoot me. No chip, no how!!. I did not fight for my country to become a prisoner in it, and I will not give up my rights to stay a part of it. So as the poll says meet me in the woods cause " I ain't taken the chip".

basically what he said!this would have to be a global thing for it to have an affect on terrorism and wouldn't ya' think that maybe they could actually use it to their advantage? A computer chip can get a computer virus and crash a system,hmmm that wouldn't do the body good IMO;) F*K that sh*t I'll be in the hills locked & loaded!:usa1

texrex
5th September 2007, 07:39
"Those who would sacrifice liberty for security will deserve neither and lose both."

- Benjamin Franklin

ReddTigger
5th September 2007, 08:05
Here is how I think a government would do it on their own citizens:
They would start with criminals, lets say sexual predators at first. Almost everybody would agree that we need to track down that kind of people, it's to protect the children.
Then they would add convicts of different crimes slowly so we don't notice or maybe we don't really care anymore.
Next would be newborn babies. We always have have to protect our children don't we?
Next thing you know, everybody's got one.




I'm sure there is a draft of an amendment ready to go to congress right now.


And, I will run to the hills.

Run to the hills Run for your lives
Run to the hills Run for your lives
---------------------------------

I'm running free yeah, I'm running free
I'm running free yeah, I'm running free
---------------------------------

Eddie For President. No chips then !!!

and I'm sure you're right, IT will probably start with sex offenders.

how bout we chip the politicians first to see how they like it
This would be one of those times I would actively campaign to have people vote YES to Proposition 102.... :)

Just for the Conspiracy Nuts !!

How do you know it isn't already being installed ???

Are you really sure of what all those vaccinations were that we were givin??

Hmmmm....

OK stop it you're scaring me, I was in the Military in the 90's long after nanotechnology was invented....... Hmmm, I wonder why that one guy on the end was using air powered injectors....

"Those who would sacrifice liberty for security will deserve neither and lose both."

- Benjamin Franklin

Too bad he didn't invent cryogenics, We could use a president like that now adays...

tandk1597
5th September 2007, 23:47
No way, not me or my family.

I'm no bible thumper, but it really does say something like that ion the Bible.

DC in PHX
6th September 2007, 00:43
Maybe we could all meet up in the woods and start a society based on Sporties. Some like in Atlas Shrugged, but with bikes, beer and strippers:doh

DC

flathead45
6th September 2007, 01:24
I'll bring my bike , you bring the beer and strippers

Crash03
6th September 2007, 03:11
the scary part of a chip is that you would never have any privacy and "they" could check up on you at any time "they" want and the "bad guys" would just cut it out and go on doing bad things

I'm not a big conspiracist, so I believe the government would be held to the same sorts of limitations we have now on privacy, and what took place in our residences, etc., would still be protected by due process.

As for the "bad guys" removing theirs, the only way they'd be able to do that would be to live comepletely off the grid. If someone went through and entry point and DIDN'T set off the detector, that would get "official" attention.

mes
6th September 2007, 03:43
i guess i am on my way out cause ain't no mfer gonna stick me with anything.i 'm camping in the woods already

Reverend G
6th September 2007, 04:26
those people who said "this is gonna happen" mostly just had the timing off. Naysayers have been proven wrong so many times, we wont ever fly, go to the moon, an artificial heart, knee, etc....As posted earlier, for 2000 yrs people have been saying this was impossible, now...it not only seems possible, but likely. Ever notice all the commercials on tv for "just swipe and go, don't slow people down using money, it's outdated".....where do you think the end result is headed? Anyone ever read the stuff on how UPC codes have 666 as an intrinsic part of the code?

hdmc_ru2
11th September 2007, 05:55
This is what our phone company sent out yesterday...


The whole world in your pockets
Have you ever felt lost while driving to towns that you aren’t familiar with or uttered the phrase “where exactly are you” while on a phone conversation with friends or colleagues? Things are about to get a lot easier with location-based services (LBS) via our cellphones. Location-based services employing Global Positioning Systems (GPS) allow users to geographically monitor directions and traffic to any desired destination. Cellphones with GPS chipsets like TELUS Navigator and mapping programs like Google Maps can now automatically display your exact location on a browser map as well as inform you on the best route to take updated with real-time traffic data. You can even get peace of mind in the palm of your hand with TELUS Kid Find, which uses GPS technology to give parents the ability to locate their loved ones without interrupting their activities.

Bigree
11th September 2007, 07:26
"those people who said "this is gonna happen" mostly just had the timing off."

You said a mouthful there. The FDA approved micro-chip implantation for humans back in '04. I'd post a link, but I'm not allowed. just google "micro chip fda" if your interested.

I've got an 11 year old yellow lab that is not allowed on the sofa. So he will just stand next to it for quite awhile, then lay his head on the cushion, then one paw, etc. etc. Takes him about ten minutes to get his entire body up there. But if I'm not paying attention he will get up there.

Just like with my lab, these things start out innocently and happen slowly over time so we hardly notice. Then one day people will say "oh, these laws have been in place for years now. This new technology will just centralize, simplify, streamline, protect our children, bla, bla, bla." Don't matter what color you paint it, we all know what it is and where it's headed. Medical breakthrough today...

Reverend G
11th September 2007, 09:21
By the time they get to the point of mandatory implantation, 94% will be for it and 6% against it, instead of how it is now. And those of us who are against the idea will be "criminals" against society.

unfiguroutable
11th September 2007, 09:42
those of us who are against the idea will be "criminals" against society.
no you'll just be lookng for an ATM (as long as they are not obsolete), and navigating the old fasion way.

TXCobaltBlue
11th September 2007, 09:48
I firmly believe that by the time any or all of this happens, the world will be a completely different animal anyways... fuel / fresh water / food shortages due to WAY TOO MANY PEOPLE... There are times that I wish I hadn't had kids - tears me up to think what their future is going to hold for them...

BTW - I'll never let them "chip" me... they can kiss my arse...

unfiguroutable
11th September 2007, 10:01
there really are a lot of people who believe in doomsday and all that crap. One form of I.D. is not inharently evil compared to the next, religous quacks have been predicting the end of the world before writen history, and last and this one is easy, the world is NOT over crowded. take japan for insatance. over 85% of the people live on 2% of the land mass. you do the math. take a deep breath, relaxe, ride your bike and realize that the world is going on in much the same way it has for recorded history.

mikgordon
11th September 2007, 13:23
It's all about big brother and big business. Corporate America will lobby the politicians and then have it made into to law one day. Of course there will be a separate data base for all the "VIPs" in the USA. You know, like politicians, Hollywood, lawyers, jedges, etc. (the ones that have public influence and would publicly cause issues when they are the ones being tracked illegally).

It's all conspiracy to keep the worker bees in line.

Revolt!

foxthorn
11th September 2007, 14:25
The problem is someone will figure out how to clone the chips - steal your money - frame you as the murderer. Hey, if they can crack the iPhone anything is possible :)

jamez1965
11th September 2007, 16:46
I refuse to lose sleep over this kind of stuff. Back in the 80s, we were convinced that our big brother government was gonna take away our right to rock! :rolleyes:

hdmc_ru2
12th September 2007, 08:08
there really are a lot of people who believe in doomsday and all that crap. One form of I.D. is not inharently evil compared to the next, religous quacks have been predicting the end of the world before writen history, and last and this one is easy, the world is NOT over crowded. take japan for insatance. over 85% of the people live on 2% of the land mass. you do the math. take a deep breath, relaxe, ride your bike and realize that the world is going on in much the same way it has for recorded history.

I wonder when I hear replies like yours, I am just wondering if there were computers and cell phones around when you were born.

"One form of I.D is not inharently evil compared to the next"?
I for one never called this new technology evil, but whether or not it is different then another form of I.D., I would say that would depend on what that I.D. can do.

And your comment that "the world is going on in much the same way it has for recorded history."
Yes we are still killing each other in wars and pumping in the sperm to make babies, but seriously, look back 40 years. Computers, cell phones and all sorts of other technology is changing a lot in this world, fast.

unfiguroutable
12th September 2007, 19:05
were computers and cell phones around when you were born.. yes but not like today. it was a TI-99/4A and the first cell phone i saw was on miami vice
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/40/994.jpg/180px-994.jpg

"One form of I.D is not inharently evil compared to the next"?
I for one never called this new technology evil, but whether or not it is different then another form of I.D., I would say that would depend on what that I.D. can do. .
to clarify let me say that being forced to present even a card form ID feels oppressive to me. it make me think of things like (incert bad german accent) "your papers please, give them to me now". that said one form of id largley has the same effect as another. for all those that are afraid of being traked, may just as well throw your cell phones away now becuase its location is monitored as long as it is in its network (on).

And your comment that "the world is going on in much the same way it has for recorded history."
Yes we are still killing each other in wars and pumping in the sperm to make babies, but seriously, look back 40 years. Computers, cell phones and all sorts of other technology is changing a lot in this world, fast.

yes technology is changing at an exponential rate but people are as you seem to have agreed with me, are much the same.

Reverend G
12th September 2007, 19:24
So the cell company knows where I am. Possibly even the gov't. Possibly even when the phone is off. But they do not know where I am, they know where my phone is. Even that can be disturbing.

unfiguroutable
12th September 2007, 19:54
they know where my phone is. .

I tip my hat to your sir. good point.

hdmc_ru2
13th September 2007, 03:03
This is what our phone company sent out yesterday...


The whole world in your pockets
Have you ever felt lost while driving to towns that you aren’t familiar with or uttered the phrase “where exactly are you” while on a phone conversation with friends or colleagues? Things are about to get a lot easier with location-based services (LBS) via our cellphones. Location-based services employing Global Positioning Systems (GPS) allow users to geographically monitor directions and traffic to any desired destination. Cellphones with GPS chipsets like TELUS Navigator and mapping programs like Google Maps can now automatically display your exact location on a browser map as well as inform you on the best route to take updated with real-time traffic data. You can even get peace of mind in the palm of your hand with TELUS Kid Find, which uses GPS technology to give parents the ability to locate their loved ones without interrupting their activities.

No more need for private investigators, just hide a cell phone in the trunk of the wifes car and you can see where she goes all the time. Hmmmmmmm, I'm just checking mine...wonder what she is doing at my best friends place again???:p

XLFREAK
13th September 2007, 04:01
The main problem lies in getting the terrorist to get the implant. I think it wouldn't be hard to either never get it or remove if it was given at birth.

Quebeker
14th September 2007, 02:58
5 pages ago I said I was going into the hills, but I realized I already gave some of my "freedom" away.

I'm a canadian truck driver and I drive mostly in the states. Crossing the border can be a real PITA. There is a program call F.A.S.T. Fast And Secure Trade.
My employer is FAST compliant, our main shipper too and so am I.

To become FAST approved, I had to get a police check done in Canada, the FBI did a background check on me and so did Homeland Security (Custom Border Patrol (CPB) is now part of Homeland). I did get fingerprinted and interviewed by CPB. Now Homeland Sec. knows where I work, since when, where I worked before that, as far as 10 yeaqrs back. Same thing with where I live(d). They know who my wife is, my kid, my pets (OK maybe not the pets).
I use the photo ID card they gave me everytime I cross the border no matter which direction.
And why give them all that?
So I can cross the border using the lane the vast majority are not allowed to use.
Last time I crossed for the "other guys", there was a back up of about 2 miles, probably 2-3 hrs. It took me 7 minutes.

Reverend G
18th November 2007, 00:20
This is true. Some firms today, and branches of government, are using GPS to track worker's whereabouts. It's all well and good, and gets rid of the freeloaders. You know, the guys who are supposed to be at work but the gps shows they really have been parked at Kelly's Bar for the last 2 hours? So many advantages for the people in charge. And of course, it saves taxpayers money and helps keep prices down. But at what cost ultimately? Not that I don't love modern gadgets and toys, darn right I own a handheld GPS. I love technology. I just have learned to be wary of it's application in the world today. I know some people are saying "If you don't have anything to hide, what's the big deal?". Well, the more I look around, the more it seems like the way things seem to change, just plain being me may be something I need to hide someday. I value my privacy. It used to be a right, not anymore.

DirtyBrandon
18th November 2007, 01:32
:smokeFcuk That.Don't Trust The Gov.Born To Die!:smoke

buckhorns
18th November 2007, 01:46
There is a long range plan and there is a large group putting it into operation. We are all know by a number. Family and friends call us by our names.

Sporting Lad
18th November 2007, 01:59
At the rate we've been willingly giving away our human rights, that chip is just around the corner.
"Either you're with us, or you're with the terrorists!"? :yikes Fuhgeddaboudit...
The terrorists have won--Now everybody's terrified of everybody else!
And our governments have got us under control.
(Don't you feel so much safer these days?)
"WARNING! WARNING! WARNING! ORANGE ALERT!!"
Let Big Bro take care of you. Big Bro knows best.

Rob Henderson
18th November 2007, 02:26
I got your CHIP right here......

LOLOL

stealthammer
18th November 2007, 03:40
Hey, anybody interested, I'll be selling re-programed chips on e-Bay within a couple days of getting my hands an offical government-issue. They'll come with a variety of options (including "custom" credit history, driving history, and of course marital status) and re-implanting will be free of charge. Oh yeah, and I can probably start selling the second version (w/ PC-compatible custom programability!) by the following Xmas.....

stealthammer
18th November 2007, 04:07
Hey, 2.5 million victims of identity theft can't be wrong...

It often takes less than an hour or two to crack a neighbors home wireless WPA security key using "freely" available warez apps that "sits" on your connection in order to "capture" your "key". Or, a "traffic generator" can substantially speed up the process. All it takes is a larsonous heart.....

What's on YOUR hard drive?

Sylvan
18th November 2007, 11:33
Dont forget about the old televisions being permanently phazed out. Part of that is to scramble all the lower radio bands. No more walkie talkies or HAM radio. They'll have complete control over communication. And that will make a revolution a real pain in the ass. lol

KC_Sporty_Gal
19th November 2007, 01:12
There is a lotta good I could see from a chip implant but the bad outweighs the good IMO.

superwarden
19th November 2007, 01:21
I believe a form of this was tried in the 40's in Germany...............


If you don't learn history, you are bound to repeat it.....

racerwill
19th November 2007, 01:30
safeguarding against the unscrupulous elements would be impossible.....because of that I think they could never do it....

Ww

vicks44
19th November 2007, 01:39
Im still old school my GPS is a map and a compass...

chris ward
19th November 2007, 01:48
Hell NO AND i'VE BEEN RIPPING OUT THE STRIPS IN MONEY

64physhy
19th November 2007, 01:53
It wouldn't bother me any. It tends to be people who have something to hide that oppose tecniques that make it easier to catch criminals. If you're honest, not a thief, and don't run around on your wife or husband, then you'd have nothing to worry about with one.

Shai`tan
19th November 2007, 02:11
We don`t willingly give away our rights. They are taken from us using excuses. Example. After 9/11. Did anyone white from Canada or the U.S. perpetrate that crime? No.

But now we are all being painted with the same brush. I remember trying to ship an obviously plastic movie prop to a friend in the U.S.. HS was all over us.

Keeping the world safe from prop builders everywhere. Meanwhile, Habeeb Terrorist is still doing what he does.

Personally, if someone wants/requires info on me, I`d rather give it to them myself. Otherwise we are headed for Totalitarianism. And we will be just like Russia in that regard.

All of this because of totally lax immigration policy. The G Man drops the ball, and the regular peeps gotta take it up teh azz for it. Lovely.

nemosengineer@yahoo.com
19th November 2007, 02:38
How much freedom do you think we really have? With the current state of technology, If "someone" really wants to find you, you can be located within hours if not minutes.
Freedom is more a state of mind, no one is autonomous. if you think your free, try to camp on public lands.
"Where are your papers", If you think your free, you haven't been through a border patrol checkpoint in work clothes with a Hispanic friend in your car.
Privacy is a quaint notion as your personal history is a matter of public record.
Don't take your ability to move about the country for granted, as that can change at a moments notice in the name of "National Security".
What defines your "freedom".

: Mike :doh

superwarden
19th November 2007, 02:45
It wouldn't bother me any. It tends to be people who have something to hide that oppose tecniques that make it easier to catch criminals. If you're honest, not a thief, and don't run around on your wife or husband, then you'd have nothing to worry about with one.


I would have to respectfully disagree with you. I am a cop and I cringe at the thought of losing freedoms in the interest of national security or under the guise of catching criminals. I do nothing that you mention, and I surely worry about this stuff. Taking of rights should never happen regardless of the "cause".

GWHuntter
19th November 2007, 02:52
I wonder if that chip would cancel out the chip those ET's put up my butt during the anal probe I got
back in 1970 when is was abducted

nemosengineer@yahoo.com
19th November 2007, 03:07
I wonder if that chip would cancel out the chip those ET's put up my butt during the anal probe I got
back in 1970 when is was abducted

No, but I have found that a really big cowboy hat covered with three layers of tin foil will stop most of the voices, but not the CIA,:p

: Mike :tour

Sporting Lad
19th November 2007, 07:32
Lawyer (Jack Nicholson): "They're not scared of you. They're scared of
what you represent to them."

Billy (Dennis Hopper): "Hey man, all we represent to them, man, is
someone who needs a haircut."

Lawyer: "Oh no, what you represent to them is freedom."

Billy: "What the hell's wrong with freedom? Man, that's what it's all
about."

Lawyer: "Oh yeah, that's right, that's what it's all about all right.
But talking about it and doing it, that's
two different things. I mean, it's real hard to be free when you are bought
and sold in the marketplace. But don't ever tell anybody that they're not
free because then they gonna get real busy killing and maiming to prove to
you that they are.
Oh yeah, they gonna talk to you and talk to you and talk to you about
individual freedom, but when they see a free individual, it's gonna scare
'em."

milmat1
19th November 2007, 17:47
"How much of your freedom are you willing to give up?..."

NONE !!!!

CT1200
19th November 2007, 17:51
Anyone hear from anyone in Pakistan lately?
I bet you won't for some time now.
Look how they did it there.
Thats how they could do it here.

spineshot
19th November 2007, 18:55
Anyone who has not done so,Should get a copy of the 'Patriot Act' read it,And you will discover that,It has almost NOTHING to do with foreign terrorists,We already have the 'alphabet boys' C.I.A. F.B.I. etc. to deal with terrorist cells already in this country,tracking them,wire taps, intercepting them at the borders and that sort of thing.The Patriot Act has EVERYTHING to do with keeping track of Americans,circumventing the Constitution,Bill of rights,That piece of 'entertainment' the Patriot Act basically suspends the everything that protects the average american from govt intrusion and abuses by the govt. Think i'm a whack job 'conspiracy theorist'? read the patriot act,giving up our rights to fight terrorism? how does taking away rights catch a terrorist?micro chip implants? basically the govt must think we are all suspectsof terrorism,The patriot act does not have any one certain group of people that they will focus on, If you still dont understand the patriot act,then read Adolph Hitlers the 'enabling act' written back in the 30's.

CT1200
19th November 2007, 19:38
Its now guilty until proven innocent...
Didn't anyone tell you...

And along with the Patriot Act you have Homeland Sec who answers to no one except the commander-in-chief.
So they can enforce WHAT they want HOW they want WHEN they want, with no one to stand in their way.

Would you like to know more?

Donz5oh
19th November 2007, 19:45
They can have my freedom when they pry it from my cold, dead fingers.

Semper Fi

XLFREAK
19th November 2007, 19:58
Death is certain life is not.

I took an oath when I joined the Army. To protect my country from foreign and "domestic" enemies. Once infantry always infantry untill death due us part in or out of uniform. There's a brotherhood you don't want to stir up the bee's nest of veterans who've had to deal with the goverment for medical or whatevers. Were already pissed off. Then there's the politcans who want gun control on veterans because they know were the ones who can take the country back. I'm fed up the cows of this country who go along lead by the nose.

Hey there already treating everyone going threw the airports like criminals.
Lowes and other stores ask for your phone# everytime you buy something. The goverment can break the law. Your guilty to you can prove yourself innocent unless you have money.

You think a goverment who can't control illegal immigration can track you,PLEASE. They are trying to separate the class's into rich and everyone else so we can pay for there easy life style.

By the way the republican party's goals have always been to be the worlds ruler.

Donz5oh
20th November 2007, 00:00
Its better to stand and rule than to kneel and beg.

spineshot
20th November 2007, 02:14
The patriot act promises to deliver some scary times,

spineshot
20th November 2007, 02:16
And it's not only been the republicans who want this sort power,Billy Boy Clinton and his crew were talking about it over 10yrs ago,This has been discussed for a long time before 9/11,No single party is free of blame for whats been transpiring in the country in regards domestic issues

Sporting Lad
20th November 2007, 04:43
Its better to stand and rule than to kneel and beg.

Whoa, big guy...
While you're 'standing and ruling' you might get a surprise from below when someone you're expecting to 'kneel and beg' pokes you up the butt with something really pointy. :laugh:p:roflblack

Maybe we should be thinking about 'standing and sharing'?
Then we might not have all this 'begging', resentment, and "insurgency".

Just my opinion.

ps-- I wasn't Infantry, but I was 'ARMOR'!

XLFREAK
20th November 2007, 06:28
Dude I'm no fan of either political party or politicains in general. Most of them are lawyers and are the reason our country is in the shape it is in now and why we have these assine laws on the books. Plus I never voted for Clinton and damn sure won't vote for his wife. Then again I don't believe in the system to be honest. Florida has a mis count and Bush wins,hum. I don't see anyone good for everyday americans in our minimum wage country backed by china goods wanting to be president.

I've been saying for years our rights are being taken away little by little. If not by the Feds then by mostly local pencil neck politicains who want to do it for our better good. They need to protect me and you from ourselfs. What they need is a good'ol fashion asswhoppin. And to boot here in Alaska our politicans are up the oil companies asses so far they have permanent ass juice dripping down there chins. Our local and federal representives. Which 3 of our legislators have been convicted of taking money from an oil company CEO. There bummer is there going to do some time. They have to make examples of them don't you know. To bad so sad and be felons. What gets me is these same people who want to take our rights way( I like to call them yuppees) asked the judge to be nice to these pathetic excuses of humans who betrayed us and not be so hard on them with there sentences.

Now we can't even smoke in our vehicle if were parked in a hospital parking lot. Its ok to have fat people working there eating themselfs into diabetes and other diseases but not for me to have a smoke in my truck with the windows up. I have diabetes and it pisses me off even more and I'm not fat.

Hey brother I was an 11B10/11H10E9assigned to the 1st and 2nd armor divisions in Europe and here in the world in a CSC. Mech. infantry.
Combat MOS is all the same to me.

spineshot
20th November 2007, 21:09
I still cant see how taking our rights away will protect us from terrorism,I just dont like the fact that our govt. sees everyone as a potential terrorist,And the P.A. allows for the militarization of our state and local police,Homeland security is nothing more than A huge police force over 120,000 field officers,What can possibly be going on that we need a national police force? Remember when Clinton said he wanted 100,000 new police on the streets of America? He got real quiet after awhile and stopped asking for them,He got told that within a decade,that something was in the works for a national police force,Voila! 9/11 and over 100,000 'homeland security' field officers, It's true my cousin is one of them,He has the same authority as a police officer,But is not restricted by 'state lines' jurisdiction blah blah,I f he so decides to declare an average citizen in whatever state to be a terrorist suspect..guess what? they are because 'HE' said so,Granted this dont happen very often, But why does somebody need that sort of power? That scary!! You are suspect...because somebody with a badge said so.

Screwdriver
20th November 2007, 21:38
The day the government tries to force me to wear a tracking implant is the day I become a terrorist.

frenchandy
20th November 2007, 22:53
never surrender never give in -throw away your cell phone mobile tracking device('proven yet basic technology)and head for the hills- OUT OF MY COLD DEAD HANDS

Donz5oh
20th November 2007, 23:03
Whoa, big guy...
While you're 'standing and ruling' you might get a surprise from below when someone you're expecting to 'kneel and beg' pokes you up the butt with something really pointy. :laugh:p:roflblack

Maybe we should be thinking about 'standing and sharing'?
Then we might not have all this 'begging', resentment, and "insurgency".

Just my opinion.

ps-- I wasn't Infantry, but I was 'ARMOR'!

I don't know anything about getting poked in the butt, must be an armor thing.:p

As for "standing and sharing", just in case you've missed the last 100 years or so, we've been sharing the blood of our fathers and sons, and a few or our daughters to keep the rest of the world safe. If we were truly conquerors then why isn't Europe and Northern Africa and Southwest Asia all American territories?

As to the resentment, people have an extremely short memory and tend to blame everyone else for their problems. Almost all of those who resent us are either Socialist dominated countries, terrorist sponsoring nations or have never actually had to spill their own blood for their continued freedom.

Concerning the "insurgency", I suppose just letting those who think "if you don't think like me then we will just kill you without so much as even talking about it" loose to do whatever they want is acceptable to you? They have already proven over and over that there is no negotiating with them, they want it all or nothing. They have smiled to our face and then stabbed us in the back continuously over the decades, yet there are those who think we can still negotiate with them.

If you honestly think that "sharing" or negotiating with terrorists works, you don't know exactely who we are dealing with. They will negotiate you right into a kneeling position and then cut your head off for being different than them.

Thats not my opinion, thats the facts, Jack!

Nightster1
20th November 2007, 23:37
This is when all bikers that say Hell no we'll all be considered 1%er's then, and will be known as the biker army, and we will all know what it is like to have to fight for our freedom..

el jinete fantasma
20th November 2007, 23:41
We have enough problems here... maybe it's time to stop being the patriarch of the world... oh yeah... and stop invading countries for made-up reasons. ;)

Americans are becoming too distracted and complacent. Our "leaders" will continue to take away our freedoms until the masses pull themselves away from video games and "reality" shows and say "enough."

Nightster1
20th November 2007, 23:42
They are already trying to do something similiar with the OBD 3 in the cars, They are trying to have transponders put on the side of the rode, and if your check engine light is on when you pass one of these, it sends a signal to Manufacturer, and you get a letter in the mail, saying that your car is exceeding federal emissions standards by 1.5 times take it to a dealer to have it repaired.
the second letter you get will be a little nastier, and the third time they have to tell you , they said the local law to remove the plate from your automobile. Also they would be able to tell how fast you were going every time you pass a transponder. They could even turn you automobile off, in the event you were running from the law... etc...

rick szymanski
21st November 2007, 03:52
tracking pellets are not the answer for everyone, but for some it is. vote democratic party and things will get worse. bigger government to protect me, to take care of me, is not what we need. we ALL have a personal responsibility to take care of ourselves, our family, and be ACCOUNTABLE for our actoins and the outcomes. it seems like today, people have an excuse for everything, excuse that doesn't hold them accountable. i've mentioned it before...i expect no one to take care of my family or our affairs. many people expect it. at least the mexicans(illegal ones) try to work...no matter how shitty the job...meanwhile we have americans living in ghettos, projects, and government housing bitching how small the welfare checks are and 5 tit fed babies just can't make it on such low income. I say,"get off your fat lazy ass...put in a fair amount of effort and do something about it!" no one gave me something for nothing. i earn my pay. as far as tracking pellets...hell yeah, use them on the deadbeats who, "can't find work" and track if infact they are looking for work or just sleeping on the couch in front of the TV.

Reverend G
21st November 2007, 07:14
But what about them republicans? It was them that came up with the Patriot Act. Seems one group wants everyone fat dumb and happy, the other just wants to keep tabs on all us possible "insurgents" or "terrorists", so they can cart ya off to prison and deny you any of the rights and liberties we value, such as being informed of charges against us and getting a fair and speedy trial.
Makes me choke just to hear the torture debate. Back in the day, them Nazi POW's lived on a camp 100 miles north of here, and were treated really well. The idea being that it would show them how good America was, I mean they got to go into town, work farms, dine with the locals. Of course, it was a "German" farm town, so they even got to converse in their native tongue. Do ya think if they had waterboarded all them guys they would have gone home after the war with happy feelings towards us? Seems we are learning to do things in the manner we felt disgust for back then, when they were used against our people(Japan, Viet Nam). Gunboat diplomacy for ya. Sorry guys, I hate this terrorist scourge, but all we are doing is giving them more reason to act. And hearing politicians and even worse, soldiers, talk favorably about torture scares me, it wasn't what I learned in the service. Of course, the gov't will be doing it to their own citizens next.

hdmc_ru2
21st November 2007, 08:38
I wonder if that chip would cancel out the chip those ET's put up my butt during the anal probe I got
back in 1970 when is was abducted

Yes, definatly, but only globally, not throughout the universe.
Except of course for Uranus, nobody wants to go there.:laugh

cuban_sporty_rider
21st November 2007, 13:51
i think i would just rather keep on doing what im doing.......no need for that chip crap.

Gone
21st November 2007, 14:46
1984 was a better book. However, the United States today is being sold down the river by greedy politicians and the politically correct crowd.

Americans have forgotten what a Republic is and the difference between a Republic and a democracy. When is the last time you heard a politician say "America is a Republic?" Why do you think every politician out there, including republicans and democrats are using the term "our democracy?" humm?

Biker Farm Boy
21st November 2007, 15:15
I personally am not as concerned about the chip as I am concerned about what we do every day now. We buy products made in China, Japan, Brazil, India, Belgium, Mexico, Sri Lanka and many others. Each time we do that we sell out a little of our freedom. We owe China enough money now that they could safely and accurately say that they own us lock stock and barrel. I for one go to some length to buy American. For example, in my entire family there are no Jap cars. But, my son in Utah owns 85, (not a typo) Jap motorcyles. Am I pi$$ing in the wind? I dunno.

stealthammer
21st November 2007, 17:07
I personally am not as concerned about the chip as I am concerned about what we do every day now. We buy products made in China, Japan, Brazil, India,...

Face it, the "selling out" of America (by Americans) will probably lead to a diminished quality of "lifestyle" for our future generations. But just as important to me is that we are devaluing the "American values" that were embodied in the constitution. We as a people, never really "grasped" the concept or the value of the words that were written to protect our rights as individuals. We have never really been satisfied with being allowed to define our own beliefs and lifestyles, and willing to protect the right of others to do the same.

Instead, most of us to some degree or another, have demanded the right to impose our will on others, and define the "acceptable" limits to what everyone else does. The founding fathers opened the door that would allow each of us to prosper in our own way, as long as it did not impose restrictions on other's right to do the same. Then we elected representatives, and developed a system of electing them, that placed a higher value on those that agreed with us, or granted us advantages over those that we disagree with.

The one thing the "American Experiment" has proven is that human beings do not posess a "tolerance gene". We all do what is "best" for ourselves, and then expect others to do what is best for the group.

Donz5oh
21st November 2007, 18:13
But what about them republicans? It was them that came up with the Patriot Act. Seems one group wants everyone fat dumb and happy, the other just wants to keep tabs on all us possible "insurgents" or "terrorists", so they can cart ya off to prison and deny you any of the rights and liberties we value, such as being informed of charges against us and getting a fair and speedy trial.
Makes me choke just to hear the torture debate. Back in the day, them Nazi POW's lived on a camp 100 miles north of here, and were treated really well. The idea being that it would show them how good America was, I mean they got to go into town, work farms, dine with the locals. Of course, it was a "German" farm town, so they even got to converse in their native tongue. Do ya think if they had waterboarded all them guys they would have gone home after the war with happy feelings towards us? Seems we are learning to do things in the manner we felt disgust for back then, when they were used against our people(Japan, Viet Nam). Gunboat diplomacy for ya. Sorry guys, I hate this terrorist scourge, but all we are doing is giving them more reason to act. And hearing politicians and even worse, soldiers, talk favorably about torture scares me, it wasn't what I learned in the service. Of course, the gov't will be doing it to their own citizens next.

It was actually a Democratic controlled congress that passed the most sweeping and invasive parts of the Homeland Security Bill, this year. When the bill was first proposed after 9/11 it was co-sponsored by Reps and Dems alike, and would never have passed if it hadn't been overwhelmingly supported by the Dems.

If you think that we didn't torture POWs during WWII then your naive beyond repair. And not all of those who returned had happy thoughts of the U.S. They had problems in Berlin for years after the war with insurgents, snipers and sympathizers harrassing, attacking, and killing U.S. service members stationed there.

Oh, and the only reason they need to hate us is that we are different and disagree with them. When I hear someone say, ignorantly, that we are just giving them more fuel for the fire it makes me think that maybe they have won. What do you propose, sitting down and talking? Or maybe we can just ignore them since they are on the other side of the planet! Wait, that didn't work, airplanes got them where they wanted to be. I believe they wanted to go to Manhattan. They got there and then some.

The only way to deal with a zealot of the magnitude is to kill them. They have no desire to be tolerant of you and your beliefs, just to wipe you off the face of the earth. I'm all for negotiating with an enemy that genuinely wants to talk peace but I'm also all for completely destroying an enemy that has no interest anything but killing.

el jinete fantasma
21st November 2007, 18:41
When I was in high school, one of my history teachers said "The only countries that have to follow the Geneva Convention are the ones who've lost." That really opened my eyes to world diplomacy. Yesterday's foes are today's allies... and they will be tomorrow's foes.

America cannot compete with China in manufacturing goods... unless you decide you want to work for $1 a day. Buying American is a good symbolic gesture, but it doesn't solve anything. Republican or Democratic, it's all Animal Farm. Just try to distinguish one pig from the other. It's our job to keep them in check. They know that we're really not that interested as a group, so they push. Our troops are worn thin overseas. Why isn't there a draft? Because the pigs know that's the final straw that finally gonna wake us the :censor up!
Sign me up when the revolution starts up... I'll call in sick that day.;)

spineshot
21st November 2007, 18:53
The republicans are not the only ones responsible for the Patriot act, That whole idea goes back to at least the start of Bill Clinton! and George Bush Senior,BOTH parties have had a hand in it,as well as congress and the supreme court

CT1200
21st November 2007, 21:44
They are already trying to do something similiar with the OBD 3 in the cars, They are trying to have transponders put on the side of the rode, and if your check engine light is on when you pass one of these, it sends a signal to Manufacturer, and you get a letter in the mail, saying that your car is exceeding federal emissions standards by 1.5 times take it to a dealer to have it repaired.
the second letter you get will be a little nastier, and the third time they have to tell you , they said the local law to remove the plate from your automobile. Also they would be able to tell how fast you were going every time you pass a transponder. They could even turn you automobile off, in the event you were running from the law... etc...

From THX1138... in 1971
SEN 5241 (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000587/): [kneeling in a studio before a large image of OMM] Things don't seem to make sense. Sometimes I see things get left out, and... they don't fit. People don't seem to see them. Or they don't know what to do. Sometimes I - Sometimes a little - a little adjustment -
[laughs]
SEN 5241 (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000587/): - can make all the difference. I wanna do the right thing. I wanna go back. I - I - I can s - I can start again. I can... change. I can - I can help. I just need a - need to rest up for a little while.
Monk (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0778744/): This is no place for prayer. If you want to speak to OMM, you must go to a unichapel. You know that.
SEN 5241 (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000587/): Yes.
Monk (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0778744/): What? Are you in any trouble?
SEN 5241 (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000587/): No, I - I'm okay, I'm going now.
Monk (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0778744/): What's your number and what's your prefix? I'm going to see this gets into your report.
SEN 5241 (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000587/): [stammering] No, I'm leaving now.
Monk (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0778744/): I'm sorry, I - I have to report all intruders. Uh, where's your identification badge?
SEN 5241 (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000587/): I... lost it.
Monk (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0778744/): You're in violation. I'm gonna have to report you to the authorities.

Sylvan
22nd November 2007, 11:42
A Patriot is NOT "one who is obedient to the State".

A Patriot is "one who resists the oppressive power of the State".

How much freedom will I give up? NONE!

Flat Top
22nd November 2007, 15:00
Very interesting thread. As usual when politics are thrown into the mix there are a lot of different opinions. Many of them are very emotionally charged. For those who have posted their belief that this is nothing more than another conspiracy theory I would point to a former Wisconsin state Governor that has officially thrown his hat into the arena for a presidential bid. Not going to fill this post up with links but just Google "Tommy Thompson" & "VeriChip". You might try "Wisconsin act 482" while you are at it. Other than his close affiliation with VeriChip I like the guy. Not only for his welfare reforms in the state of Wisconsin but the fact that he is very "Biker" friendly. Some argue that the case being made for the VeriChip implants was so that all Americans could carry their complete medical history around with them at all times. It is when he suggested that they be a mandatory procedure for military personnel to replace dog tags that he lost my support. That was back in '05.

Biker Farm Boy
22nd November 2007, 15:10
I think the real problem is that folks get so involved in (side taking) for example being a Republican or a Democrat that they lose sight of the issues. I tend to be a right winger but try to at least listen to what each side is saying. We need to think about what is best for America, (We the People) my wife and I have 17 Grandchildren and I don't think a single one of them is interested in where this Country is headed, they just think things will work out, so don't bother them about it.

CT1200
22nd November 2007, 16:32
There is a little truth to every lie, and every lie has some truth to it.
Each side has their goods and bads, like with everything else in life.

I don't want to have to take sedatives for the rest of my life just so I don't see whats really going on around me. The Matrix. It has you.
But at 31, I was just given a script for blood pressure meds...

More from THX1138
Let us be thankful we have an occupation to fill. Work hard, increase production, prevent accidents and be happy.
Let us be thankful we have commerce. Buy more. Buy more now. Buy. And be happy.

Anyone feel like a copper top yet?

pattywagon
22nd November 2007, 17:06
they can stick the chip where the sun dont shine and not in mine

JayFL459
22nd November 2007, 17:13
While the Thread is interesting.. Crooks can counterfeit everything else am sure could do so with the *chip* as well... When Hell Freezes.. Count me in for the chip...

XLFREAK
22nd November 2007, 18:21
Terriost are the enemy of our country knowone will argue that. However our goverment is not the friend of the people. Don't kid yourself one minute. They see themself as us against them. What gets me is people keep voting these same people back in office expecting difference results.
If you don't think the goverment isn't afraid of the people then why are they revisting gun laws in the surpreme court. They know the people are getting to a boiling point of rebelling. One of there targets is veterans with PTSD limiting there gun rights to bare arms. The american public is ignorant and believe what the gov.says when they give excuses on why we should chip and all that. Thats is the conspiracy as I see it. Were doing it for your own good but we won't use it against you. Liar,liar,pants on fire.

Donz5oh
23rd November 2007, 03:52
Terriost are the enemy of our country knowone will argue that. However our goverment is not the friend of the people. Don't kid yourself one minute. They see themself as us against them. What gets me is people keep voting these same people back in office expecting difference results.
If you don't think the goverment isn't afraid of the people then why are they revisting gun laws in the surpreme court. They know the people are getting to a boiling point of rebelling. One of there targets is veterans with PTSD limiting there gun rights to bare arms. The american public is ignorant and believe what the gov.says when they give excuses on why we should chip and all that. Thats is the conspiracy as I see it. Were doing it for your own good but we won't use it against you. Liar,liar,pants on fire.

If I never agree with you on anything else, I will agree with you 100% on this. Well said.

spineshot
23rd November 2007, 16:45
I read an article yesterday,That foreign nationals,illegal aliens,people on work or school visas will not have to have a 'chip implant' hhhmmm arent they they the ones we should be watching? and they are also NOT listed as potential terrorists in the Patriot act,Only you and I law abiding americans

Sylvan
23rd November 2007, 16:54
The two party system is just the smoke and mirrors that makes people believe they have a choice. America has been a fascist state for a long time already.

"An organization created by the States to secure the blessings of liberty and independence against foreign aggression, has been gradually perverted into a machine for their control in their domestic affairs. The creature has been exalted above its creators; the principals have been made subordinate to the agent appointed by themselves.” -Jefferson Davis 1861

The purpose of a president is NOT to gain power. The purpose of a president is to devert attention away from power.

Yeah, things are boiling and they know it. They know it because it happenes to every society in history. Governments run in cycles just like everything else.



Average age of the worlds greatest civilizations has been 200 years.
These nations have progressed through this sequence…

From bondage to great courage
From courage to liberty
From liberty to abundance
From abundance to selfishness
From selfishness to apathy
From apathy to dependence
From dependence back to bondage

Donz5oh
24th November 2007, 00:51
The two party system is just the smoke and mirrors that makes people believe they have a choice. America has been a fascist state for a long time already.

"An organization created by the States to secure the blessings of liberty and independence against foreign aggression, has been gradually perverted into a machine for their control in their domestic affairs. The creature has been exalted above its creators; the principals have been made subordinate to the agent appointed by themselves.” -Jefferson Davis 1861

The purpose of a president is NOT to gain power. The purpose of a president is to devert attention away from power.

Yeah, things are boiling and they know it. They know it because it happenes to every society in history. Governments run in cycles just like everything else.



Average age of the worlds greatest civilizations has been 200 years.
These nations have progressed through this sequence…

From bondage to great courage
From courage to liberty
From liberty to abundance
From abundance to selfishness
From selfishness to apathy
From apathy to dependence
From dependence back to bondage

Have you actually ever been to a fascist country? If so list one and a few REAL similarities between the two. Fascism is a word banteed around, typically by igonorant people, who don't have real arguments and instead try to use words that will berate or silence the majority. Don't misunderstand, ignorance just means you don't have all of the facts, its not usually an insult unless included in something like "ignorant prick". This wasn't an insult. Given your example show one point in our history where, according to you, we have not been a fascist society. There is no slavery, equal opportunity for all, prejudice has been relegated to the individual and the state by its own laws cannot practice it anymore. Commercialism drives our economy, not imperialism. Free market is the cornerstone of our society, not communism. With the absence of those, can you really have fascism? Aren't they integral to the state abusing its citizenry and without them, the state has at best minimal control over the people? Unfortunately, they government does have control over things like education and we see how successful thats been.

Usually when I hear people scream about government intrusion they are also supportive of the government controlling education, the health system, public safety(i.e. the absence of guns to the general public), and the list goes on. The governments job is to protect us from foreign invasion, not provide health care. Although I don't like the Patriot Act, its for a different reason. I think that the government should be doing more to monitor foreign correspondence, like listening to incoming or outgoing phone or email transmissions to countries they know are terrorist sponsoring. Or from people with whom they suspect are associate with terrorism.

For those who don't like the government doing this type of covert snooping, what would you have them do? I rarely hear anyone actually put up an intelligent plan of their own when they condemn another one.

Would you rather just wait until everytime we get attacked and then figure out the next course of action?

Lets make it more personal. If some dirtbag came into your house, would you wait for him to attack you before defending yourself or would you light him up like a christmas tree and worry about the aftermath once you knew your children and wife(or husband) were safe? Now, put that on a global scale. Should we wait until every attack before we respond or go after those we suspect or know of plotting against us?

Don't get me wrong, I believe that the less government intrusion the better. But we can't cry about them not doing anything to protect us when we constantly tie their hands. There has been no time in our history where the government has been more restricted on what it can or can't do. Just look back at how Abraham Lincoln dealt with agitators during war. Jail. FDR, jail. And those people had absolutely zero rights or representation until well after the conflict was over. Our history is replete with this type of stuff, and it was all done to our own citizens, not some foreign national caught on a battlefield somewhere.

Sylvan
24th November 2007, 03:47
Fair enough. Replace the word fascist with "authoritarian".
And no, I am not offended at all.

Im just sick of bureaucracy, political correctness, over-population, others' dependence hindering my liberty, the deliberate dumbing down, the catering to morons and imbiciles, materialistic greed, the threat of marial law, prohibition, etc etc...

A free country is becoming a full blown welfare and prison state.

I'll chip in for roads, and reasonable border and local security. They can have all their other scams.

el jinete fantasma
24th November 2007, 07:19
Should we wait until every attack before we respond or go after those we suspect or know of plotting against us?


I agree, but the thing that kills me about the current administration is that they attacked a country that was not a real threat to us but pussyfooted around North Korea, which is very much a real threat. We might as well have gone back into Grenada.:frownthre
Now our military is hurting... will they be ready when the real :censor goes down?

Sylvan
24th November 2007, 15:32
the thing that kills me about the current administration is that they attacked a country that was not a real threat to us but pussyfooted around North Korea
Its a "proxi" war. Saddam and the Taliban were "fired". The managment is pussyfooting around with "all" of it. The real threat is "The Persians and theistic ideology".

Now our military is hurting... will they be ready when the real goes down?
No big deal. Now that a basic perimeter is set up, all we'll need to do is drop half a dozen nukes around Iran, wait two weeks, then project a hologram of mohamad telling everyone that god wants them to kill themselves.

If the hologram technology works it wouldnt be a bad idea to use it at home on all those brainwashed freaks in the bible belt. Just mount the projectors on a bunch of those UFO's that the people in Nevada, Arizona, and Mexico see flying around all the time. Common sense tells ya the military industrial complex is going to have to unveil some new machines eventually anyway, so why not get rid of some kristians while they're at it.

:smoke

XLFREAK
24th November 2007, 19:12
Do you see our country getting better or are we just starting to see whats in store for us.
If you do think it will get better then why and what makes you think that.

Sylvan
24th November 2007, 22:41
Do you see our country getting better or are we just starting to see whats in store for us.
If you do think it will get better then why and what makes you think that.

It will get better for the corporate capitalists and the corrupt authoritarians. Rich will get richer. Global Elites.

It will get worse for the independents and libertarians who cant make more than 250k.

And the poor will stay poor, and that population will increase giving the bleeding hearts and authoritarians (so-called do-gooders) more reason to increase welfare and the prison system. Blackwater has already built consentration camps. This is the century for the conditioning and transformation to tyranny.

:)

Got a heat wave coming tomorrow. Temps in the 40's and sunny. Perfect day to put some miles on my Sportster!!!

:banana:tour:clap:smoke

Blaze
8th February 2008, 08:11
I will not accept "The Mark". The government will not be able to make me.

That sums it up for me.....


One quick thought (sorry if this was covered, I didn't read the whole thing), when using the "chip" to buy goods...what happens when you have to "put back" that can of beans cause you spent too much money on your newest rigid build? will there be some kinda automated something that stops you at the door??
Kinda humorus...... kinda not!

I'm not a fan of the chip, the barcode, or whatever else they come up with....as khaskins stated, as far as I'm concerned no matter what form it takes...it's still the "mark"!

Reverend G
8th February 2008, 13:58
How can anyone claim personal freedom today? It is an illusion. Chips in vehicle registrations and passports to "track" citizens (these are in use already), and next in your personal ID or drivers license. A recent television program commented on how, in much of our populated areas, you spend more time being surveilled by camera than truly "free". This was not an extremist show, it was "tactical to practical" showing how all that military hardware goes into civvy usage. To that point, ever see police respond to a situation today? They had a man boarded up with a gun in a house locally the other day, the police who responded were in camo gear. Are they police or paramilitary enforcers? Why do police in urban areas need camo? As to free market, what free market? The big companies buy you out to negate competition. The big corporate entities basically run our congress. We the people now means the CEO's. Not all that different from royalty and nobility, well except that they have to switch figureheads occasionally, and give us 2 choices to choose from, bad or worse. Lastly, our handling of the "prisoners" at guantanamo shows how despicable we have become as a nation. That people support anything but the utmost of respectable treatment for these people is appalling. I don't like the prisoners a bit, but I understand our commitments to POW's, which is what we call those people. To debase them one iota is to show our nastiness to the world at large. Sure, asian nations and germany both did it to some extent, and have lived it down. But only because we Americans had a soft heart, and understood, at least in Germany, that it was not the people's doing. Proper treatment of POW's can do alot for a nation, mistreatment only breeds worse events.

williamv1203
8th February 2008, 14:43
Currency is "chipped" also...

linkin5
8th February 2008, 16:01
My dog is chipped.

theoldog
8th February 2008, 16:37
I would never agree to it. I don't trust the govt. any more than I do criminals or terrorists.

Horse
8th February 2008, 19:55
The one thing you can always trust about politicians is their distrust of everyone else. They can't keep a hacker out of DoD computers, how the hell they going to keep em out of these "chips".


Just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean they aren't watching you.

Shai`tan
8th February 2008, 22:21
"How can anyone claim personal freedom today? It is an illusion."

I agree. Even the title of this thread is telling. You`d have to be gulled into believing you actually HAVE freedoms. Obviously many are. In the times before the last 100 years, people would and infact did band together when their rights were usurped. Not now.

Now the Governement can feed peeps loads of pure crap to justify why their freedoms are being systematicly taken away..... and they just roll over. The crappier it gets? The more propaganda we will see on TV/media whathaveyou, that`s there to what? Sucker peeps into believing the worlds an awesome forward thinking forward moving place to be.

The real kicker is, there are 2 seperate worlds. The world as we see it in our Ideals. And the world the way it actually IS. The Real World.

Horse
8th February 2008, 23:34
Built right into the constitution is our responsibility to stand up and make changes if it becomes necessary. Of the people, By the people, For the people. I served and bled for my rights, I'm acutely aware of what so many give away for free. Didn't someone say once, if you sacrifice liberty for freedom, you end up with neither?

GrumpyCoyote
8th February 2008, 23:41
That "someone" was Jefferson.

Modern Americans forget that our government is not actually the ruling body of the country - we, the people, are.

They work for us, and have no charter to do many of the things we let them get away with.

The more we look to the government to protect us, the more liberty we give up.

It's dangerous, and un-American. It’s a modern concept – and a horribly faulty one.

We have many guarantees in the constitution - a guarantee to safety is not one of them - that's up to us to take care of - as individuals.

Reverend G
8th February 2008, 23:51
But the biggest group that seems to forget, well, they happen to be office-holders!! And, we the people, do not have the choices that existed centuries ago. We can't go find a new uninhabited land (never mind them injuns) and tell our gov't to leave us alone. Also, the gov't has done quite a bit to quell any insurrection. Whenever I hear police officers refer to citizens as "civilians" I cringe. If the police aren't civilians as well, what does that tell you? Didn't the south disagree with the gov't about a century and a half ago? Think local citizenry has a better chance today? Yeah, we have the vote, for what its worth. I do vote, and I did serve, but I do not blindly follow.

Blaze
9th February 2008, 01:58
Our fore fathers retaliated against their overbearing gov't and they are known as "patriots", if we stood up today to fight against anything we'd be labeled terrorist so fast it'd make our heads spin!

The whole terrorist thing is horse shit! They created it to keep americans in a constant state of fear so that they keep the control.
(and circumnavigate the consitution)
The same groups of people they call terrorist today were here 10 years ago and nobody ran around in a panic then.
But then again, our rights weren't being walked all over back then as bad as they are now (IE: the "so called" patriot act)...they could easily distract everyone with reports of some president getting his pud pulled by his "help" (like that was a new consept too).
It's rediculous realy...but what can ya do? Move to France?

ShadenGheist
9th February 2008, 02:09
The only way they could get me to accept a Chip under my skin is if they put them in Bullets, and let me trade some of my own for them.

Donz5oh
9th February 2008, 07:20
The only way they could get me to accept a Chip under my skin is if they put them in Bullets, and let me trade some of my own for them.

Damn Skippy!!!

Leumas
9th February 2008, 10:14
As the Human race we use technology to make our lives easier, ease suffereing in the world, make work less onerours and difficult, to get more done etc......but when that technology is used purely for the political control of citizens and minority groups who choose to live slightly 'off centre' of the accepted norms, that's just plain wrong, on so many levels.........:)Leumas

mray55
9th February 2008, 11:39
In my honest opinion! Between The politicians and the supreme court. The Constitution has been raped and has little of its original meaning. It is time for change. However chances are the only change would be Prison for what ever reason the Government can come with. CATCH 22 IN ITS PURE FORM.

Gone
9th February 2008, 14:21
I would never agree to it. I don't trust the govt. any more than I do criminals or terrorists.

What's the diff?

steveb71
24th April 2008, 04:34
"Those who would sacrifice liberty for security will deserve neither and lose both."

- Benjamin Franklin


See my signature.:)

I forget where this particular quote came from but I also like the one stating that: a government that doesnt trust its citizens with firearms, is a government not to be trusted. That is the truth IMO

Hell no I wouldnt get one!:frownthre

csa89xl
24th April 2008, 04:48
You give far more credit to "the powers that be" than they deserve. Bring it on!

RON BAYLESS
24th April 2008, 09:41
it is coming,it will happen,no one can stop it ! you can read about it in the book of revalation (last book of the bible). if you are in tune with god,then you have no worrys .

Amen brother.I am with you.

xtheunknown
24th April 2008, 15:56
I am willing to give up NO freedom. The thing about freedon is, once you give it up, it is very hard to get it back.

There are bad people in the world. Always has been, always will be. We do what we can to catch the criminals and terrorists and bring them to justice.

Unfortunately, if we give up our freedom in order to catch the criminals and terrorists, we will ALL be treated like criminals and terrorists.

Our government now has the right to lock you up, not give you legal counsel, and never try you as long as the President says it's necessary. It's called Habeas Corpus, and for all intents and purposes, it has been suspended.

The government says this is necessary to catch the terrorists. Maybe so, but they could use this power for other purposes.

Not many people know that the first case tried using the powers granted law enforcement by the USA Patriot Act was a pornography case, not a terrorism case. Not child porn, just plain adult pornography. You may agree or disagree that pornography is bad, but that is hardly the point. We were assured that the Patriot Act would only be used to catch terrorists. That has not been the case since day one.

I'll leave you with a quote from a very wise man, Benjamin Franklin:

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

ShadenGheist
25th April 2008, 00:04
Our government now has the right to lock you up, not give you legal counsel, and never try you as long as the President says it's necessary. It's called Habeas Corpus, and for all intents and purposes, it has been suspended.

The government says this is necessary to catch the terrorists. Maybe so, but they could use this power for other purposes.

Not many people know that the first case tried using the powers granted law enforcement by the USA Patriot Act was a pornography case, not a terrorism case. Not child porn, just plain adult pornography. You may agree or disagree that pornography is bad, but that is hardly the point. We were assured that the Patriot Act would only be used to catch terrorists. That has not been the case since day one.

Wrong... http://www.lifeandliberty.gov/subs/add_myths.htm#s412

Donz5oh
25th April 2008, 02:04
Wrong... http://www.lifeandliberty.gov/subs/add_myths.htm#s412

Good link, in a nutshell, it says that only ALIENS can be detained. Not citizens. The same misconceptions are contributed to the foriegn wiretap laws but in reality they can only listen to calls coming in from another country.

xtheunknown
25th April 2008, 03:00
Wrong... http://www.lifeandliberty.gov/subs/add_myths.htm#s412

I don't believe any link on a government web site. Of course they are going to say that. Read the law. It allows the detainment of ANY person found to be an enemy combatant by the President. There is one part of the act that refers to alien enemy combatant and another that just refers to enemy combatant. The determination of whether you are a citizen and thus, not an alien, is up to the Secretary of Defense, and since people determined to be unlawful enemy combatants have no legal recourse in the the civil court system, you can't demand to have a civilian judge determine your status. That's how your right of habeas corpus is taken away. Don't believe everything you see on a government web site.

rick szymanski
25th April 2008, 03:02
I'll give up as much as it takes to make EVERYONE around me feel warm and fuzzy. Also, if it's about government helping us be safer...that's also fantastic!!! It's a win-win situation. Can't beat that with a stick!
























The above comment is SARCASM.

Donz5oh
25th April 2008, 03:24
I don't believe any link on a government web site. Of course they are going to say that. Read the law. It allows the detainment of ANY person found to be an enemy combatant by the President. There is one part of the act that refers to alien enemy combatant and another that just refers to enemy combatant. The determination of whether you are a citizen and thus, not an alien, is up to the Secretary of Defense, and since people determined to be unlawful enemy combatants have no legal recourse in the the civil court system, you can't demand to have a civilian judge determine your status. That's how your right of habeas corpus is taken away. Don't believe everything you see on a government web site.

I did read the law and it says aliens, not citizens. Maybe you should read it, or better yet show us where it says ANY person. I wouldn't give up my rights to be safer in a thousand years but I also don't like it when someone purposely misrepresents something to slant to thier point of view. As long as I have my guns, the government has to worry about me(and those like me) more than I have to worry about them. Don't distrust everything you read either, or you'll be as big of a fool as those who trust all.

Donz5oh
25th April 2008, 03:26
I'll give up as much as it takes to make EVERYONE around me feel warm and fuzzy. Also, if it's about government helping us be safer...that's also fantastic!!! It's a win-win situation. Can't beat that with a stick!
























The above comment is SARCASM.

For just a sec you almost had me on that one.:doh

ShadenGheist
25th April 2008, 03:44
I don't believe any link on a government web site. Of course they are going to say that. Read the law. It allows the detainment of ANY person found to be an enemy combatant by the President. There is one part of the act that refers to alien enemy combatant and another that just refers to enemy combatant. The determination of whether you are a citizen and thus, not an alien, is up to the Secretary of Defense, and since people determined to be unlawful enemy combatants have no legal recourse in the the civil court system, you can't demand to have a civilian judge determine your status. That's how your right of habeas corpus is taken away. Don't believe everything you see on a government web site.

And where exactly did you get your information?

Here's a tip... The ACLU is NOT a good source for information.

If you read the Text of the law, then you are simply mistaken. If you got your information from a Non Government source, then I'd say you are simply mis-informed.

I can prove I'm a citizen, I don't talk to Foreign Terrorists on the phone, I don't view Child pornography, I haven't sent any bombs or viruses through the mail... I'm not going to worry my grizzled and scarred head about it. Getting in a panic about nothing is the problem, not the solution.

hdmc_ru2
23rd August 2008, 06:28
Interestingly enough, in our local newspaper today, they announced that lots of people in Mexico are getting microchip implants so they will not be kidnapped and thrown in a trunk without being found. About $3000 for the chip and $2,500 per year for monitoring.

Fear-monger you, fear monger me. Everybody will need a chip to save you from the boogie man.:rolleyes:

...or to live in a house,
...or buy food,
...or...

CB160
23rd August 2008, 08:56
Umm, so who is it in Mexico that can afford that kinda of $$ for so called "peace of mind"? Then again, who's gonna jack the poor folks.......
Starts with the pets, then the kids, then YOU.....
Anyone ever read '50's science fiction ???
It's all here now.......gettin' kinda scary.....

Blaze
23rd August 2008, 13:16
I knew we were in trouble when they out lawed "shit happens" bumper stickers in the 80's.
Today they've taken away my right to smoke in public. Where does it end? They start with the simple things and work their way up to bigger stuff. All it takes is a majority vote from a handfull of people in a room in Washington and they'll make it a law for the millions of people across the nation.
I don't have to read what law says what...... I can see it happening around me daily.
The small examples I gave above, are just that...small, but like the saying goes...give 'em an inch and they'll take a mile.

Vegas1200C
23rd August 2008, 15:54
lots of people in Mexico

The company that makes them is saying 2000 people in the last year so considering that Mexico has a population of over 108 million I would guess that the percent of microchipped Mexicans is right between no one and you are a tool of Fox News.

atiredwing
23rd August 2008, 18:04
And, I will run to the hills.

Run to the hills Run for your lives
Run to the hills Run for your lives
---------------------------------

I'm running free yeah, I'm running free
I'm running free yeah, I'm running free
---------------------------------


Two great tunes there dude! :clap

atiredwing
23rd August 2008, 18:12
And where exactly did you get your information?

Here's a tip... The ACLU is NOT a good source for information.

If you read the Text of the law, then you are simply mistaken. If you got your information from a Non Government source, then I'd say you are simply mis-informed.

I can prove I'm a citizen, I don't talk to Foreign Terrorists on the phone, I don't view Child pornography, I haven't sent any bombs or viruses through the mail... I'm not going to worry my grizzled and scarred head about it. Getting in a panic about nothing is the problem, not the solution.


I don't know who dug up this old thread but after reading a few of the responses I have to throw this out there. You can not prove you are a citizen once you have been determined to be an enemy combatant. That is all it takes for you to have your citizenship stripped from you. Where did I get this? Look at the headline of this post. Don't trust the government, don't trust the fear mongers. Do the research for yourself and learn the truth!

steveb71
23rd August 2008, 20:44
Originally Posted by Quebeker http://xlforum.net/vbportal//forums/images/buttons/orange/viewpost.gif (http://xlforum.net/vbportal/forums/showthread.php?p=874778#post874778)

And, I will run to the hills.

Run to the hills Run for your lives
Run to the hills Run for your lives
---------------------------------

I'm running free yeah, I'm running free
I'm running free yeah, I'm running free
---------------------------------

Two great tunes there dude! :clap

Iron Maiden rocks!



http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a199/steveb3006/Eddie.jpg

:smoke

daggar rider
23rd August 2008, 20:53
no chance, i'll fight to the death but i won't be tracked, monitored, or hunted down

hdmc_ru2
23rd August 2008, 21:55
The company that makes them is saying 2000 people in the last year so considering that Mexico has a population of over 108 million I would guess that the percent of microchipped Mexicans is right between no one and you are a tool of Fox News.

This is the way it starts, they throw it all over the news nationally that this is the way to protect you and your family in the new age, even if it is a small group of people that have these "grain of rice" size crystals implanted under their skin.

They promise to track you with satellites and then you can never be lost or taken away.

Next it will start to become the norm; get the chip so you don't have to carry ID that will get stolen, get the chip so you don't have to carry money that will get stolen, get your kids the chip so no one can kidnap your kids.

Next thing you know that 2000 people will be the ones fighting not to have the implant and the 108 million will have it.

By them telling everyone how much they cost now will just entice more people to get it later, when they tell you it is half the price of renewing your license...and it will give you so much more.

As I said, I saw this in my local paper, not Fox news; and as for being a tool, just who do you work for anyway?:p

Boom-Boom
24th August 2008, 02:03
I did read the law and it says aliens, not citizens. Maybe you should read it, or better yet show us where it says ANY person. I wouldn't give up my rights to be safer in a thousand years but I also don't like it when someone purposely misrepresents something to slant to thier point of view. As long as I have my guns, the government has to worry about me(and those like me) more than I have to worry about them. Don't distrust everything you read either, or you'll be as big of a fool as those who trust all.

Well said Donz! I wish a few more people would understand these points. Some of the same ones who don't really believe the second amendment is about individual rights are adamantly against the government tracking them. Interesting doublespeak.:doh

0patience
24th August 2008, 02:56
So you are saying that you wouldn't mind the govt tracking you?

You realize that a lot of states are starting to implement bluetooth technology that will read the information from your vehicle's PCM and tell them the status of it's emissions?
Once that is implemented, realize that a lot of vehicles have on board naviagtion, so they will be able to track vehicles from that.

Some states, Oregon, are trying to implement GPS tracking on all vehicles registered in the state of Oregon, to be able to accurately charge a road tax.
They've already started a study group in Portland.

I'm not much on conspiracy theory and all that, but when your privacy starts to disappear, then what do you do?

If you've read the book 1984, there is a lot of similarities to how that civilization was ran and how it is today. Enter the Patriot act into the equation, then it really comes close.

Do we need those things? Probably.
The problem is, who is watching the watchers?
With that kind of power, comes corruption unless checked.
Do we have enough checks in the system to prevent corruption?
I'm not sure that we do.

Anyway, just my humble opinion.

Boom-Boom
25th August 2008, 04:49
Opatience, I'm not sure if you were addressing me, but yes I most certainly do mind the government tracking me!! I guess I wasn't clear in my last post. I have been having a go around in another thread with some folks that really don't seem to mind giving up their freedoms. I believe some of these folks probably don't understand that being tracked and being told you can't carry a firearm go hand in hand, and yet they may be against the former and don't really mind the latter. This type of thinking betrays a real lack of understanding of our history, why we are the only world superpower, and why millions are still flocking to our shores for opportunities to live life to the fullest!

0patience
25th August 2008, 06:19
Opatience, I'm not sure if you were addressing me, but yes I most certainly do mind the government tracking me!! I guess I wasn't clear in my last post. I have been having a go around in another thread with some folks that really don't seem to mind giving up their freedoms. I believe some of these folks probably don't understand that being tracked and being told you can't carry a firearm go hand in hand, and yet they may be against the former and don't really mind the latter. This type of thinking betrays a real lack of understanding of our history, why we are the only world superpower, and why millions are still flocking to our shores for opportunities to live life to the fullest!
Ok, I misread your post. My apologies for that. I agree with you.

Any time we give up anything (some folks will argue the rights of such), we are becoming lemmings or sheep.
Being required to wear seatbelts or helmets was the start.
Next came tobacco bans. The list goes on and on.
There are groups still trying to ban guns, as they think that all guns are bad.
They should take a look at crime statistics for Canada and UK.
Banning guns doesn't stop crime, only un-arms the victims.

GPS tracking are coming. Combine fuel tax, emissions regulations and the patriot act and this will become reality.
A lot of folks sided with the tobacco bans, but failed to realize that there are a lot of talk by lobbyists for junk food taxes, alcohol tax increases and many others to force you to eat and drink what they deem as "healthy".

It's funny. Most of us grew up in an age without warnings everywhere, no seat belt requirements, very few helmet laws, no nutrition labels and amazingly we survived all that. What were we thinking?

CB160
25th August 2008, 06:25
Anyone re-watch
"Demolition Man" lately, hehehe, it is the future.....Too Fg Sad.... :(

floorit
25th August 2008, 06:30
It's funny. Most of us grew up in an age without warnings everywhere, no seat belt requirements, very few helmet laws, no nutrition labels and amazingly we survived all that. What were we thinking?

You mean what ARE we thinking. At the rate they're outlawing things, breathing will be illeagal by late next year.

Horse
25th August 2008, 23:17
Anything that can be programmed can be hacked or cloned by someone. So even if I were for this kind of technology, which I'm not, there is no way they could make it "safe", in fact, it sounds even more vulnerable than the system we have now.

Boom-Boom
26th August 2008, 04:39
If any of you get a chance, read The Last Brave Cowboy, otherwise known as Lonely Are the Brave. I can't remember the author's name, but it is about an unknown cowboy who just happens to want to get to Mexico on his horse while riding through numerous Federal, State, and private properties. Unfortunately at the time, there is a manhunt going on for a really wicked person. Since the cowboy is an unknown drifter, suspicion is cast on him. At one point he is stopped by a sheriff(?) who asks him for some ID. His answer: "No, I already know who I am" (or something to that affect). He is thereafter the focus of the manhunt. When he tried to cross the last highway to get to the Mexican border, he and his horse are killed in a downpour by a semi. One of the most poignant books on the loss of American freedom that I have ever read.

Track me? Screw you!!!!

ShadenGheist
26th August 2008, 13:07
If any of you get a chance, read The Last Brave Cowboy, otherwise known as Lonely Are the Brave. I can't remember the author's name, but it is about an unknown cowboy who just happens to want to get to Mexico on his horse while riding through numerous Federal, State, and private properties. Unfortunately at the time, there is a manhunt going on for a really wicked person. Since the cowboy is an unknown drifter, suspicion is cast on him. At one point he is stopped by a sheriff(?) who asks him for some ID. His answer: "No, I already know who I am" (or something to that affect). He is thereafter the focus of the manhunt. When he tried to cross the last highway to get to the Mexican border, he and his horse are killed in a downpour by a semi. One of the most poignant books on the loss of American freedom that I have ever read.

Track me? Screw you!!!!

Sounds like a good read.

Too bad you gave away the ending.:doh


:laugh:laugh

Boom-Boom
26th August 2008, 19:22
Sorry about that!! :dohis right! However, this book is about a lot more than a quick read and a nifty plot. You'll keep it on your shelf forever if I am truly remembering all the details correctly.:geek