Greetings again from the Bonneville Salt Flats. We're out here this week for USFRA's "World of Speed" event, a 4-day cars & bikes meet. Today was the first day.

Immediately after the driver's meeting, we were all allowed to drive the course. We went down in our tow rig. The course is an absolute dream compared to last week's course at the Bub meet. It's in a slightly different place on the flats and the salt is MUCH drier, although also somewhat thinner.

After the drive through, we immediately got in line. We were the very first ones in the line. Susan rode her black Buell S1. I left the nitro bike parked today, to concentrate on her.

She's running in class A-PG 1350cc. "A" is for altered frame/chassis, PG is for pushrod gasoline engine. At the Bub meet, which runs under AMA rules, we run in M-PG, which is technically a lower class, as it's made for modified production motorcycles. A (altered) is really for custom chassis, typically lay-down bikes. However, this sanctioning body (BNI) has a weird rule that all "M" bikes must run an engine and frame from the same manufacturer. As I have S&S cases on this bike, we have to run "A" even though the bike is truly an "M" bike. Sigh. They just made this rule a few years ago, immediately after I spent thousands building this motor for "M" class.

Anyway, Susan was running against an existing class record of 163.848, set by Vance Breese in 1997. Susan qualified at 166.596. So we took the bike to impound.

We had one little hiccup, the time slip said M-PG. The bike already holds the 1350cc M-PG record, XLTimbo (from right here on the forum) set it in 2004 with a speed of 167.056, back before we had changed the cases or the rule had changed for that matter (by the way, he broke the cases while setting that record, which is what prompted me to change them).

We gathered up our paperwork, and we had accidentally put "M-PG" on the entry form. However, the tech sheet said A-PG and the bike had A-PG written on it and the bike ain't even legal in M-PG, so the tech guys let it slide. The bike sits in impound right now, awaiting it's backup pass at 8:00am tomorrow to put this one in the books. The average of the 166.597 qualifying pass and tomorrow morning's pass needs to be above the existing record, and then of course we have to tear it down and get measured and pass inspection. But unless something goes wrong, this should be in the bank.

So we were all done with today's racing before noon. I spent the rest of the day working on the orange bike at a leisured pace. I had worked on the bike all weekend to get it all back together from the Bub meet teardown last week, but there were a couple things I didn't get to, like strapping the motor and properly aligning the chassis, so I took care of those things today. If we get Susan's record in the bank tomorrow, we'll switch over and run the orange bike. Conditions are good enough that it ought to be capable of a 210+ pass. We'll see.

There are lots of interesting bikes here, including a turbine powered bike that was the prototype to Jay Leno's turbine bike. They made a licensing pass only today, they were required to stay under 150. They went through at 140 or so. It'll be interesting to see how fast it'll go once they get through licensing. Anyway, I've got several pics but can't upload them right now, I'll try to get to it later.

There was one bad accident today, team Freedom Harley Davidson from Denver wadded up a Destroyer V-rod real bad. I've got pics of the bike after the wreck. The bike got into a tank slapper at 150. The rider broke his arm and shoulder and was transported to Salt Lake City. Hopefully he'll be OK.

Thanks for the update, love to see some pics

GLad to hear that you're having fun in the salt. Hope to read tomorrow that the new record is in the books

"As I have S&S cases on this bike, we have to run "A" even though the bike is truly an "M" bike. Sigh. They just made this rule a few years ago, immediately after I spent thousands building this motor for "M" class."

167 still ain't bad for a stock frame 1350cc bike, sorry to hear you got rule screwed.

:<(

thanks for keeping us all up to date! we are all pulling for all of you, best of luck tomorrow.

Sweet! Glad to hear you guys are back out there. Sounds like it may be a much better venue. Best of luck to you all!
-Tim-

Only 166? Man.... you've been slacking!

Just wait till he pulls the orange bike out!! If the salt is as good as he says it is I predict a 210+ pass today!!

BTW, something Aaron neglected to say is he has a new chassis getting ready to have the 1350 engine out into it that should be even faster next year. :)

well, I only managed 207.8, but there's always tomorrow ;)

Susan backed up her 166.6 yesterday with a 164.1, average is 165.3, which sets a new record. We tore it down, got measured, and put it in the books. I then put the motor back together, it's ready to race some more.

But it was my turn this afternoon, I ran the nitro bike, and as I mentioned, ran 207.8. Still having wheelspin issues at speed, nothing like last week, nothing that really scared me, but still, keeping it hooked up was a challenge.

We put the bike in impound, got it all ready for tomorrow, and made a change that may make it faster or slower, we'll have to wait and see. But I don't see any reason not to try something. Worst case, it slows down a bit, so what. The old record is 178.438, which is more or less a fast idle on that bike.

Sorry, still can't upload pics, worst case I'll have to do it when I get home.

Cool deal!

Congrats to the New Record...

And here's to hoping you get #2 this week.

Way to go Susan.

Faster Aaron faster!!!

Way to go Susan.

Faster Aaron faster!!!

Ditto! :D

I know we'll have pix next week. Got any good 'action' shots?

Would love to see the turbine bike and compare it to Leno's.

OK, so we didn't have the greatest day ever on the salt today. But it wasn't the worst, either.

I pulled out for my backup pass, got it wound up, and about the time she was crossing 6000rpm in top gear (180-190ish), she nosed over, just like she had run out of fuel. I switched over to my straight methanol tank, and sure enough, she fired off. Turned off the methanol tank, she died, turned it on, she came back to life. Damn. The Pingel Nitro Valve had sprung closed.

Anyway, I thought I could ride it out on straight methanol and at least do something, but the methanol tank is really small, we normally only use it for starting, warming up, and shutting down. Within a mile it was dry. I coasted off the course.

So we didn't bag the record today. But the good news is, it wasn't hurt. So I turned it around and took it back to the line for another qualifying pass. We went through at 203 and change, which is a bit weak. Of more concern was a bunch of nitro-laden oil that came out the breather. That's typically a sign that we hurt a piston.

I took it to impound, figuring I could go ahead an claim the qualifying pass (the record is only 178) and take a look at the bike there. The rules only allow 4 hours to work on the bike. I ran leak down and compression checks and everything was perfect. The plugs looked perfect. I went ahead and tore down the weaker testing of the two cyls, the rear. Everything was perfect. So I got it measured and sealed and put it all back together, easily making the 4 hour window.

I *think* I just overfilled the oil tank. The oil level rises substantially because there's so much nitro flowing into the oil. I have to leave it toward the bottom of the dipstick. I think it just overfilled and had nowhere to go except out the breather.

So anyway, we're in impound again, waiting for another shot tomorrow morning. This is the THIRD time I've qualified on this record, going back to World of Speed 2006. Maybe the third time is the charm.

After backup passes in the morning, we have the option of running it again, or running Susan's bike again, or even both. Both motors have been measured and sealed so there's no more damn teardowns. I'm so sick of tearing down and putting together motors you can't believe it, between this event and Bub's last week.

I've got some pics uploaded to post ...

http://www.nrhsperformance.com/pictures/WOS2007/77.jpg
This is an old and historic car, that's put many people into the 200 mph club. It was wrecked and rebuilt into this form a few years back.

http://www.nrhsperformance.com/pictures/WOS2007/aaliner.jpg
Lots of fast streamliners at these events. Interesting machines, most with really high dollar, radical motors.

http://www.nrhsperformance.com/pictures/WOS2007/bikesatsunrise.jpg
Our humble pit, in the morning.

http://www.nrhsperformance.com/pictures/WOS2007/bothbikes.jpg
Another view

http://www.nrhsperformance.com/pictures/WOS2007/coupe.jpg
You see some wild stuff at these meets.

http://www.nrhsperformance.com/pictures/WOS2007/flathead.jpg

http://www.nrhsperformance.com/pictures/WOS2007/ggms.jpg

http://www.nrhsperformance.com/pictures/WOS2007/gsxr750.jpg

http://www.nrhsperformance.com/pictures/WOS2007/jeffbailey1.jpg
Jeff Bailey of S&S brought this machine out. It's a Buell X1 with a 100 inch motor, same class as me except he's gasoline, I'm fuel. He bagged a record yesterday at 171 or so, and today he's back in impound with a 173 qualifying speed. This is his first time at Bonneville and he's having a lot of fun.

http://www.nrhsperformance.com/pictures/WOS2007/jeffbailey2.jpg

http://www.nrhsperformance.com/pictures/WOS2007/kgl.jpg

http://www.nrhsperformance.com/pictures/WOS2007/mabry1.jpg
Team Mabry brought a whole slew of well prepared bikes.

http://www.nrhsperformance.com/pictures/WOS2007/mabry2.jpg

http://www.nrhsperformance.com/pictures/WOS2007/mabry3.jpg

http://www.nrhsperformance.com/pictures/WOS2007/mabry4.jpg

http://www.nrhsperformance.com/pictures/WOS2007/meeting.jpg
The driver's meeting

http://www.nrhsperformance.com/pictures/WOS2007/panheadmpg1350.jpg
Susan's S1 holds the record in this bike's class, 1350cc M-PG. XL Timbo set it in 2004 at 167.056. It's a pretty good number. Every meet, it seems like there's a bike or two out to get the record. So far no one's come all that close. These guys didn't get close, but they were having a good time. Noce folks, I chatted with them for awhile.

http://www.nrhsperformance.com/pictures/WOS2007/redliner.jpg

http://www.nrhsperformance.com/pictures/WOS2007/redroadster.jpg

http://www.nrhsperformance.com/pictures/WOS2007/riviera.jpg
When's the last time you saw a Riviera race car? You see everything at Bonneville.

http://www.nrhsperformance.com/pictures/WOS2007/roadsterengine.jpg


http://www.nrhsperformance.com/pictures/WOS2007/s2onlift.jpg


http://www.nrhsperformance.com/pictures/WOS2007/sidecarliner.jpg


http://www.nrhsperformance.com/pictures/WOS2007/sprint250.jpg


http://www.nrhsperformance.com/pictures/WOS2007/sprintmotor.jpg


http://www.nrhsperformance.com/pictures/WOS2007/suess1.jpg


http://www.nrhsperformance.com/pictures/WOS2007/susywaiting1.jpg


http://www.nrhsperformance.com/pictures/WOS2007/susywaiting2.jpg


http://www.nrhsperformance.com/pictures/WOS2007/tubine1.jpg
The turbine bike.

http://www.nrhsperformance.com/pictures/WOS2007/turbine2.jpg

http://www.nrhsperformance.com/pictures/WOS2007/turbobusa.jpg

http://www.nrhsperformance.com/pictures/WOS2007/turbokaw.jpg

http://www.nrhsperformance.com/pictures/WOS2007/vesco1.jpg

http://www.nrhsperformance.com/pictures/WOS2007/vesco2.jpg

http://www.nrhsperformance.com/pictures/WOS2007/waddedvrod1.jpg
This is what happens when you go down on a bike at 150mph

http://www.nrhsperformance.com/pictures/WOS2007/waddedvrod2.jpg

http://www.nrhsperformance.com/pictures/WOS2007/waddedvrod3.jpg

http://www.nrhsperformance.com/pictures/WOS2007/waddedvrod4.jpg

http://www.nrhsperformance.com/pictures/WOS2007/woodenbike.jpg

http://www.nrhsperformance.com/pictures/WOS2007/yamaha2stroke.jpg

Those pics are awesome...I really liked the #59 lakester, and that Sprint!

How fast did the Sprint do?

Better luck tomorrow. Great pics too.
Lloyd

I'm not sure on the Sprint's speed. They may have some results posted on http://www.saltflats.com , or it may take a few days for them to get posted. If I hear anything I'll post it. But he was in impound the first day, and he's back in impound now, so he's running over the existing record, whatever it is.

Sweet! Way to go Susan!
The salt flats almost look like snow.
Very cool event for sure. Thanks for sharing
the pictures Aaron. Look forward
to more when you get home. Have fun!

http://www.nrhsperformance.com/pictures/WOS2007/susanwiths1hairblowing.jpg
Susan again with her S1

Well, I finally backed up that record successfully. But the bike blew oil out the breather again. And the power is down, it could only muster 201. Must be something with the front hole, I'll take it apart in the next few days. We're home now. The average of my two passes and the new record is 202.6. I'm slow. Betcha money Timbo would've gone 10mph faster.

The course was also getting rougher and more slippery. Susan made a couple more passes this morning after my backup pass but couldn't improve on her speed from earlier in the week. Salt conditions have a LOT to do with speeds.

All in all, it was a successful meet for us. Two new records, Susan's is a decent number, mine is a bit soft but at least it's over 200. We really can't complain.

We're hoping for good salt at Finals. We need it to solidly raise the speeds.

Congrats on the numbers. That brings backs some memories of Burt Munro. May have to make a trip down that way next year and watch you all perform.

Thanks everyone!

Michelle, it does look like snow, only it's generally 90+ degrees out there. You cannot believe how bright it is. A good place to get a suntan!

One last picture of my bride and myself ...

http://www.nrhsperformance.com/pictures/WOS2007/aaronandsusansmall.jpg

Racing with Aaron is boring.

Success after success after success after success after success after success after success after success after success after success after success...........

Good job, mi amigo! And thanks for the pics. They bring back many fond memories.

Congrat's to both of you! I also appreciate all of the pic's, surely nothing like being there, but alot better than leaving it all to the imagination. Some awsome stuff out there. I gotta' look up the Sprints speed, my Dad was a Sprint FREAK! If it could be worn out or broken, he's done it.

congrats you guys!! great pics by the way.

Congrats Susan and Aaron!! Thanks for the report and photos.

You will gett'm next year!

Thanks again everyone!

George, I can only wish that was true. We've had some meets, like WOS last year, where nothing goes right at all. Then we've had meets where we can do no wrong. This one was somewhere in between. We wanted 167 out of the black bike and 210 out of the orange bike. But the course condition has a whole bunch to do with how fast we can go. Even the deterioration over the duration of the event is really noticeable and slowed us down, it was fastest on the first day (same was true at the Bub meet).

The Bub course was awful, this one was so-so. I'll be watching conditions for Finals closely. If it's marginal, I probably won't go. The only way we're going to raise the speeds and meet our goals is if the course cooperates.

Landracing.com put up a video of me at roughly 200mph:

http://www.landracing.com/images/stories/video/Wilson.wmv

You can see the course markers, I'm running between the 2 and 3 mile markers, which is the first timed mile (aka the "short" course). Vehicles that run over 175mph in the first timed mile have the option of running up to two additional timed miles (aka the "long" course). I was running through the 4 mile marker (i.e. 2 timed miles, the 2 to the 3 and the 3 to the 4), then taking my time slowing down and parking at the 6 mile. You get to choose which of your timed miles to claim, but you have to back up your speed in the same timed mile.

Aaron and Susan,

You guys are the BOMB!:banapart :banapart

Aaron that video is awesome!
I watched it three times and
said "WOW" out loud each time.
Think I'd piss my pants going
that fast.

Thanks everyone!

Michelle, it does look like snow, only it's generally 90+ degrees out there. You cannot believe how bright it is. A good place to get a suntan!

One last picture of my bride and myself ...

http://www.nrhsperformance.com/pictures/WOS2007/aaronandsusansmall.jpg

Kyle Petty, izzat you?

Thanks Jesse & Michelle.

Aus, people say I look like Chuck Norris. first time I've ever heard anyone say Kyle Petty :)

Well, I just tore it down, and it's pretty obvious now why the speeds dropped off and I started getting oil out the breather ...

http://www.nrhsperformance.com/pictures/WOS2007/burntpiston.jpg

I'm certain his happened when the fuel valve popped closed and it leaned out. It was on the very next pass that I could only muster 203 and I got oil out the breather.

Much more interesting is the other side:

http://www.nrhsperformance.com/pictures/WOS2007/liftedpocket.jpg

I've got a whole pile of pistons with the intake pocket starting to lift, but I've never seen one lift this far without breaking!

Pretty amazing the motor actually lived 2 more passes after the valve closed and managed to run above 200 on both. Obviously I didn't have squat for ring seal on the front hole and the piston was on the verge of breaking.

She'll be all fixed up for Finals in two weeks, I've got lots of spare pistons and cylinders, they're high wear & high failure items on fuel motors ;)

I'd say that one let out a groan!!! Glad it didn't come apart on you. Congrats to you and your wife. Hopefully I'll get the chance to make it out to the salt one of these years.

Aaron - I followed this thread last year and really enjoyed hearing about you and Susan's adventure. Susan's record that she broke has been around for along time. Great job on taking that one!

What Bonneville events do you plan on attending this year and what bikes are you going to bring?

Thanks for all of your help with my LSR bike! You and Dan have definatley helped me go fast!

Good luck,
Scott

Hey Scott ... thanks on the comments.

Let me tell you the story of that little black S1 of Susan's. I originally built it in 2003. It was her street bike before that. With Richard Nallin riding it, we set a BNI record that year at 166.9 in M-PF 1350cc, running just gasoline (we chose to start with M-PF just because it had the softer record and we figured we needed to tune on it). We then switched to M-PG which at that time was also a 166.9 record held by Carl's Speed Shop, but we had a problem. That was the record we really wanted with it. Oh well.

The next year, 2004, I went through the motor and while tuning it on the dyno, I broke the cases. This was like a couple days before Finals. Basically in one day my son-in-law and I tore it down, swapped in another set of cases, and put it back together. Got it out to the event and right off the trailer Timbo ran 167.0. He backed it up with another 167.0 and we took Carl's record by like a tenth of an mph. I looked at it after the backup pass and the cases were broken again.

So for 2005 I built yet another motor for it, this time using S&S cases. I was tired of replacing factory cases! But 2005 was a rain out year. Speedweek was a disaster, the course was bad and a guy got killed and they cancelled it half way through (I didn't go) and then WOS and Finals were cancelled due to rain. The Bub meet was pretty good but we didn't run the black bike.

After the 2005 season, SCTA in their infinite wisdom, changed the rules, and decided that "M" bikes had to have frames and engines from the same manufacturer. So here I was with an S&S motor I had spent thousands to build and had not yet even had the chance to race it and it was now illegal in M classes.

But as it turned out the A-PG record at 163 was softer than our M-PG record at 167. So we decided to step up a category and just run the thing in A-PG. We went to WOS in 2006 but unfortunately, our POS S&S billet cam cover that I had paid a small fortune for failed on us. Grr.

So FINALLY we got the bike back out in 2007. Timbo couldn't go so I talked my wife into coming along and riding the bike. These naked bikes REALLY need a SMALL rider, and Susan is 5'2" and 95lbs if you put rocks in her pockets. Sure enough, she was fast. She set an M-PG record at the Bub meet (Bub didn't follow SCTA's lead on the rule change so we could still run it in "M" there) of 161 and change on really bad, wet, rough salt, and then set the A-PG record at WOS a couple weeks later with a 165.370 average. Her fast pass was 166.6, pretty damn close to what Timbo had done on the bike.

But anyway, the bike doesn't belong in "A", it's not a lay down bike. I truly think a well-built A-PG 1350cc bike ought to be able to run north of 170. So this year, we're building up a new stock case motor for it so we can move it back to "M" where it belongs. We're doing some things differently to try to make the cases hold up to these power levels. Dan is working on the bike right now. We already have both the 1350 M-PG and M-PF BNI records with the bike, but the M-PF record is awfully soft since we just did it on gasoline. So we plan to run M-PF and use the nitrous this year. I've tuned it with the nitrous in the past, not actually raced it, and it made north of 170hp. It oughta be good for 180ish mph, if a person can hang on. Damn hard to hold on to a naked bike at those speeds. Cil is going to ride it, at least at the Bub meet. I think she'll make multiple gasoline-only passes before she pushes the button though.

Meanwhile I'm taking the S&S motor that was in it and putting it into a Truett-Osborn chassis I bought last year. This will be a true lay-down "A" bike. Susan will ride this one. We plan to run it on gas and fuel both. No fairing.

Meanwhile the flagship bike, my orange S2, is getting a full rebuild of the motor. I'm putting it together right now. The first meet we'll run at, the Bub meet, we already have every record it can run for except MPS-PG 2000cc, so that's what I'm setting it up for (a +.030 overbore bumps me to the 2000cc class). Assuming we bag that one, we'll probably put it back on nitro and take a shot at the Fastest V-Twin prize, which NRHS is sponsoring again this year. At WOS and Finals, I'm not quite sure where we'll run it. We hold three BNI records with it and there are 3 more classes we could put it in. Haven't decided for sure yet.

Sounds like you did great on the dirt! 168 on a newly built unsorted bike ain't bad at all. Look at it this way, the BNI MPS-PG record, 172? Set back in the early 90's by Don McCaw on his Buell RR1200. You're very close to that. Get it all sorted and you should have a 180mph bike, which would be damn good for a 1350cc pushrod motor running on gasoline.

Do you plan to come to the Bub meet? Come by and see us for sure. Anything we can do to help, just say the word.

Aaron,

Thanks for the history behind all of the bikes! It just goes to show that in the sport you need to be determined and stay determined until you achieve your goals. It is very obvious that you are on a mission. I hope I can do you guys proud this year and grab a few records this year at Bonneville and at El Mirage. It would be nice to have another competive NRHS bike out there snipping at the heels of some of these old APS-PG 1350 records. The record at Bonneville is 176 and is 27 years old and the El Mirage record is 178 and is 12 years old. I really feel that on my 168 pass at El Mirage last weekend had I had another 1/4-1/2 mile I would of made it to the 178 mark, however as you stated I am dealing with an unsorted out bike yet and with some patience, time and some tuning I will get there.

You already sound like a pretty busy guy and now adding a third bike to the mix I am sure that will just add to the pressure. Of course there is a plus side to that........the harder you work for something the more rewarding it when achieve your goals!

I will not make the BUB event this year due. My wife is expecting our first about a month prior to that date and we have no idea if the baby is going to be on time or late. So I am tentatively planning for the Oct 8-11 SCTA-BNI meet and hoping for Sept 17-21 USFRA meet.

What is the problems with the stock cases? You have me scared now!! I was thinking of maybe adding nitrous to the bike later on it's future, but it sounds like I may want to steer clear of that unless I am running aftermarket case.

Thanks again for all you have done,
Scott

Scott, the configuration you're running is what we came up with specifically to keep these cases from breaking. I don't want to say more than that, at least not publicy. But I'd be really surprised if they break on you.

Your motor ought to be capable of something north of 130hp. Every one of that configuration that we've done, we've made more than 130. You have to work at it to get a number like that, though. Everything has to be right. It helps to have unlimited access to a dyno. You're welcome to use ours all you want.

In years past, people coming from the east would stop here for a day or two on their way to Bonneville, dyno the bejeezus out of their bikes and get everything they could. We'd just point them to the dyno and say knock yourself out. Crim did that in fact. It helps a lot. You not only get everything out of the motor, but it also helps to shake out issues. Being able to do that is one of the ways you get the edge it takes to break records. The salt is no place to tune a bike. You need to have your sh*t together when you roll it out of the trailer and immediately go into a fine tuning mode.

Your bike is showing a lot of potential. I'm sure you'll get there.

See you at WOS and/or Finals. I plan to go to both assuming I still have a running bike or two.

when you get ready to play with nitrous let me know. Running nitrous at the salt is a whole lot different than running it at the dragstrip, and the advice you get from the manufacturers and the drag racers is all wrong. Getting it to work and not melt pistons when you lean on the button for a minute or more is not trivial, but it can be done. Our 205.642 record in MPS-PF 1650cc was done on the bottle.

The other thing, that you kind of hit on, is that in land speed racing, you've got to be patient. Goals tend to be multi-year events. Conditions aren't always favorable, or the meets get cancelled altogether. It's hard, it takes a lot of work and it often takes years to get what you want. And by then, you want more.

We currently hold 10 records. I want more ;)

Aaron - Thanks for all the advice on things I am sure you learned the hard way. That is good to hear about the cases.......that's the last thing that I need to happen.

I do have acces to a dyno whenever I want and I have 3-4 more warm up races at El Mirage prior to Bonneville.

I do see nitrous in my future and will definatley be asking you questions! First question, I have a new fuel pump and regulator, am I going to need it for the nitrous appliction? My first thoughts are yes as fuel is going to need to increase when on the button to prevent a lean condition.

You have definatley put in your time and fare share of hardwork, you guys should be very proud of those records!

Scott

Scott, yes, on a "wet" system (which is needed especially at Bonneville), the nitrous injectors have two inlets each, one for nitrous and one for fuel. On the fuel side you need a 6-8psi pump and a solenoid. Also a good fuel filter. A speck of grit that makes it up to the injector and plugs up the fuel side will take out the motor. I can't emphasize enough how important it is to keep everything spotless when you're working on the fuel delivery side of a nitrous setup.

Nitrous can be done anywhere from very elaborate to very simple. I started out with an elaborate setup: progressive controller box, a controller bypass wired into the high/low switch, low fuel pressure cutout, fuel pressure gauge, ignition that would automatically prevent activation below 4000 rpm as well as take out timing, throttle switch so it wouldn't kick on at less than full throttle, about 6 relays to control the whole thing, etc.

Over the years though I simplified. I found that the progressive controller really wasn't needed, that a person could just as easily modulate the button with his finger. I decided it was safer to just change the timing by myself. And so on. The less stuff you have, the less can go wrong.

Not sure what you're running for a clutch, but for awhile I had a big problem with mine just letting go and allowing the motor to spin up when I got into the button. Finally got a Scorpion with the two-hands-required-to-pull-the-clutch springs. It works.

A true nitrous motor has several internal changes to make it work it's best, too. But those changes tend to compromise gasoline-only power.

The biggest hassle with nitrous is bottle temp management. The bottle has to be warm to work. It takes a lot of attention. Especially on cool Bonneville mornings.

I kind of hit a wall with the nitrous after awhile, to where I had done everything I could do, I was getting everything out of it that I could without melting pistons. I switched to nitro and that has taken us to the next level. I'm still learning the nitro, this will only be my 3rd year with it. But it definitely raised the performance for a given reliability level.

One thing you need to understand about race motors and racing, these things are maintenance intensive. Keep after your valve springs, shim them to keep the pressure up and replace them when they're done. Change valves periodically, especially exhaust valves. Check crank runout and rebuild it periodically whether it's broken or not. And the more power you make, the more attention all these things take. I can't tell you how many people I've seen who would buy good stuff from us, run it hard, not maintain it, and then gripe when they had a failure. You can't treat a race motor like a street motor, it won't hold up. Something will break. Making a bike reliable is all about preventative maintenance. I spend thousands every year rebuilding stuff. You have to.

One thing you need to understand about race motors and racing, these things are maintenance intensive. Keep after your valve springs, shim them to keep the pressure up and replace them when they're done. Change valves periodically, especially exhaust valves. Check crank runout and rebuild it periodically whether it's broken or not. And the more power you make, the more attention all these things take. I can't tell you how many people I've seen who would buy good stuff from us, run it hard, not maintain it, and then gripe when they had a failure. You can't treat a race motor like a street motor, it won't hold up. Something will break. Making a bike reliable is all about preventative maintenance. I spend thousands every year rebuilding stuff. You have to.


I spoke to Dan about this after you posted this and I am definatley gonna have to keep an eye on all of these items. My bike only has a few passes on it now so I should be good for a bit, but it is something I definately want to watch so I do not have to spend a ton of money later due to my lack of maintenance.

Thanks,
Scott

You don't want to know how much Aaron spends just on routine maint items to keep these bikes at their peak condition each year!

You don't want to know how much Aaron spends just on routine maint items to keep these bikes at their peak condition each year!

No, you are wrong I really do want to know! :D:banana:banadanc

Aaron,
I have been thinking about an oil bypass for the sportster based motors since last year. I just never spent the time to sit down and think it through. I also didn't want to starve the motor while I was experimenting. So, when I read your response to Scott it got me to going on it again. You mentioned stock case motors needing this help. Is there any reason you know of why it would not be beneficial on my S+S cased motor? Also, have you ever played with a pressure bypass? I'm thinking these motors wil live with 25 psi,maybe less, am I way off there. I'm running a zippers 3 stage pump that is putting out 45 psi with 10/30 oil.
Another thing I am looking at is adding weight to the swingarm. How important is it for the weight to be centered on the bike? Everything I have come up with has the weight a little off set to allow for the chain over the swingarm.
As I get further along I'll be back asking questions. Thanks for your help and see you at BUB's

Larry

Larry,
Excuse me for jumpin in; I use the same pump because it's scavenging side keeps the heads from filling up. (I don't think a bypass is needed...) Aaron?
As for weighting the swingarm, I've been following a thread on landracing.com. Seems it works on loose surfaces (lake beds) and can be a handful if you loose traction on hard surfaces (paved).

Sam

You mentioned stock case motors needing this help. Is there any reason you know of why it would not be beneficial on my S+S cased motor?

Yes:

http://www.nrhsperformance.com/pictures/reedvalve.jpg

This reed valve, found only in S&S engines, isolates the scavenge inlet of the pump from the vacuum created when the pistons go up. That nails the problem. We see zero oiling system problems on race motors with S&S cases.

Stock cases don't have this isolation, and as a result, crankcase pressure can actually go negative (due to the check valves on the breathers), and that really screws with the pump's ability to scavenge the motor. It's mainly a problem when the ring seal is particularly good. One of the reasons we never push people to use gapless rings on stock cased motors is they often make the motor wet sump.

Bypassing the pressure, sending the excess back to the tank, is essential on a high rpm stock case motor with good ring seal. But I don't mess with it on S&S cased motors and I have no problems.

Also, have you ever played with a pressure bypass? I'm thinking these motors wil live with 25 psi,maybe less, am I way off there.

Indirectly, yes. I don't want to get into too many details publicly, because it was hard to figure that out, but I can get you the info. There is some additional power there if you're willing to risk your pistons. A travel limited lifter is essential if you're going to explore this area, but I suspect you have them already. Not at all sure I'd mess with it if I were you, because there's less to be gained on the S&S cased motors. I don't mess with it on mine.

Another thing I am looking at is adding weight to the swingarm. How important is it for the weight to be centered on the bike? Everything I have come up with has the weight a little off set to allow for the chain over the swingarm.

The main thing is to not screw up the polar moment by putting weight out at the ends of the bike. It needs to be between the axles, and the closer to the center the better. A lot of guys extend their swingarms and this creates some room directly in front of the rear tire which is a good spot. I've seen bikes with too much of the weight too far back get really, really unstable, dangerously.

Sam, I saw that same thread. I don't ever expect to be on AC but my weight will be removable anyway. My new heads will have external oil lines that I'm going to dump in the cam cover over the pump. Thanks

Aaron, It's my understanding that the S+S cases have 2 scrapers. So, is there 2 reed valves? Is it ported to seal the crank area from the cam chest to create vacumn or do I still need a check valve in the cam cover breather? I'm asking , since they put the cases together I'll never see this to understand how their oiling system is designed.

As for the weight, I am planning to extend the swingarm and put the weight in front of the tire. Either on top of the swingarm or underneath. I was just wondering if offseting the weight to one side for the chain pathway could be a problem. Thanks,

Larry

Aaron, It's my understanding that the S+S cases have 2 scrapers. So, is there 2 reed valves? Is it ported to seal the crank area from the cam chest to create vacumn or do I still need a check valve in the cam cover breather? I'm asking , since they put the cases together I'll never see this to understand how their oiling system is designed.

No, just one scraper and one reed valve, the one pictured above. No check valve in the cam cover breather for a 5 speed cam box, the check valves are in the rocker boxes, and you're right, they don't do much on an S&S motor since the reed valve is effectively providing that function.


As for the weight, I am planning to extend the swingarm and put the weight in front of the tire. Either on top of the swingarm or underneath. I was just wondering if offseting the weight to one side for the chain pathway could be a problem.

You're talking about offsetting the weight left to right? I can't help you there, I haven't tried that. Mine isn't perfectly centered but it's pretty close. I also fill my swingarms with lead shot. I would think if you got it too far offset left or right you might upset the bike but I have no idea where that point would be.

Aaron,

Yeah, side to side offset was what I was refering to with the weight. I'll narrow it up and keep it centered then.

I'm gonna go sit by the front door now and look for the UPS guy. Thanks again.

Larry

Larry,
You have 2 big boxes coming and one more should ship next week.