Fu@#ing thing won't stop leaking!

[shizzomynizzo]

Hello,

I have been struggling with an iron head that leaks oil near the front. After changing all the oil lines and replacing the oil pressure sending unit, I still observed oil.

Used the famous paper towel method and I have found where it's leaking; where the return line connects to the motor.

I already replaced the line and the leak is now minimal, but there has to be a way to stop it, right?

I used generic oil lines, do I need some kind of specialty oil line or something? maybe one with a tapered end?

[IronMick]

The return line runs from the front of the oil pump to the top of the oil tank. Is this the one?

If it is leaking where the hose is attached to the oil pump, and you have used a good clamp, then maybe there is a crack in the oil pump. You could try the spray powder deoderant technique to locate it more precisely.

The FM gives both ID and OD for the oil and vent lines. If you use automotive oil or fuel or transmission line the OD will be larger and it will be more difficult to run the lines thru tight spots - like around the starter motor. I buy my oil lines from my indie mechanic, and get the correct sizes every time.

oil line: 3/8" ID, 5/8" OD
vent: 1/4" ID, 1/2" OD

Heh heh, one time the counter guy squeezed the hose, right before my very eyes, to "prove" that the OD was correct.

[shizzomynizzo]

The lines are routed as follows... feed from tank to the oil pump, oil return to oil cooler, oil cooler to oil filter, oil filter to tank.

It's leaking at the oil return line from the filter, to the tank.

New hoses, new clamps. It looks like it is just loose, but I have tightened it as much as possible.

I will try a new clamp tomorrow, I am becoming frustrated. Time for a :smoke

[85mm]

Are you sure it's not the barb fitting thats leaking. Maybe you should unscrew the fitting, clean out the threads and seal it back up with loctite.

[shizzomynizzo]

Are you sure it's not the barb fitting thats leaking. Maybe you should unscrew the fitting, clean out the threads and seal it back up with loctite.

I didn't see any oil on it, but I will do as you say when I replace the clamp tomorrow.

I'll report back after work

[shizzomynizzo]

After removing the hose and inspecting the clamp, it appears that it was leaking due to 2 conditions. Clamp was really cheap and crappy (advance auto will not get my business again), and I tightened it too much (more to blame on the $#itty clamp though).

The clamp is not rounded on the inside, and when I tightened it, the hose was punctured by a fold in the metal on the inside of the clamp. I trimmed the hose down and used a clamp off the oil cooler. I will replace the oil cooler clamp tomorrow (easier to get to than the return line off the oil filter, that's why I relocated it)

I am 85% sure that this will solve my problem. I will find out for sure tomorrow when I get to work.

[shizzomynizzo]

Okay, took it for a ride and it still leaks!!! WTF!!!

I have a better idea of where it's coming from now though. I have to take the side cover off the engine and inspect it.

[IronMick]

... I have to take the side cover off the engine and inspect it.

There have been a couple of posts recently where the gearcase cover has been referred to as a "side cover". It is not.

If that is the cover you are talking about you need to know about removing the pushrods, removing the ignition module, and some other technical details including how to remove the cover without wrecking the cam bushings, and re-installing the cams.

If you are unable to find the relevant posts then please just ask before you start.

[shizzomynizzo]

There have been a couple of posts recently where the gearcase cover has been referred to as a "side cover". It is not.

If that is the cover you are talking about you need to know about removing the pushrods, removing the ignition module, and some other technical details including how to remove the cover without wrecking the cam bushings, and re-installing the cams.

If you are unable to find the relevant posts then please just ask before you start.

Has the gearcase cover also been referred to as a "cam Cover" too.
This is the one in this picture here:

http://image.streetchopperweb.com/f/10996595/0701_stcp_22_z+harley_davidson_sportster_motor_pol ishing+chopped_cam_cover.jpg

I think it leaking from the oil line that connects behind it. All the other lines were cracked and leaking from age, so I assume that's where it's coming from.

[boilermaker]

Has the gearcase cover also been referred to as a "cam Cover" too.
This is the one in this picture here:

http://image.streetchopperweb.com/f/10996595/0701_stcp_22_z+harley_davidson_sportster_motor_pol ishing+chopped_cam_cover.jpg

I think it leaking from the oil line that connects behind it. All the other lines were cracked and leaking from age, so I assume that's where it's coming from.

Yes and if you dont know what your doing in removal you will create a lot of extra work for yourself with the possibility of damaging things in the process

[darwin-t]

IronMike and boilermaker know what they're talking about! I took mine off before IronMike posted his advice in another thread and my XL is sitting in the shop as I type.

[IronMick]

The oil line connected to the rear edge of the gearcase cover is the vent from the oil tank. The return line from the pump to the oil tank also passes the same spot. Both are routed under the starter motor on their way up to the top of the tank.

If you are going to remove the gearcase cover [usually referred to as the cam cover] you should have the factory manual in hand.

Check post #8 in this thread ...
http://xlforum.net/vbportal/forums/showthread.php?t=857434
Note that this is an incomplete description of the process, just typed from memory to give an idea of what is involved.

[shizzomynizzo]

Just got the fsm, I will give it a go today. I will take some pics too in the process if I need help with anything.

[merc]

pics will always help. These guys will give you the most accurate and sound advise you'll find anywhere,Good Luck

[shizzomynizzo]

I was able to get the cams cover off without any problems.
Cams didn't pull out and nothing seemed that bad.

Until I spotted a CRACK IN THE CASE!!!

It's very small and hard to see, but it's there!

http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/6430/downsize3.jpg
http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/2077/downsize23.jpg

[Hopper]

I was able to get the cams cover off without any problems.
Cams didn't pull out and nothing seemed that bad.

Until I spotted a CRACK IN THE CASE!!!

It's very small and hard to see, but it's there!

http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/6430/downsize3.jpg
http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/2077/downsize23.jpg

Panic not.
Impossible to tell for sure from photos, but that may not be a crack.
It seems like an unlikely place for a crack. Not a stress point.

Those are sand-cast cases and surface blemish marks that look just like that are common. They are only on the surface and nothing to worry about, if that is what it is.

Can you take a look at it through one of those very powerful magnifying glasses with a built in LED light? You might be able to see if it is a sharp edged crack or the more rounded-edged casting blemish.

Can you get in there and clean the back side of the case and see with a small inspection mirror and flashlight if the crack goes all the way through to the other side? And fill the camchest with oil and watch if it seeps out the back where the crack would be???

[jharback]

A lot of times when using stock type rubber hoses the clamps get overtightened a little and cut into the hose. I usually use a little duct tape on the hose prior to tightening the clamp. This seems to prevent this problem. Or you could just use stainless steel lines.

[Hopper]

Or use automotive auto transmission cooler line. It is tougher than regular oil/fuel line.

[merc]

Don't know if this can be done on motorcycles or not but sometimes when checking flatness we couldn't see with the eye, we would shine a very bright light on the back side. If we could see light we knew that there was a space.

[gunterjaeger]

Use Fuel injection hose clamps. Its a full sheathed clamp with superior sealing capabilities.

[shizzomynizzo]

i used auto trans lines, and I did wrap the ends with electrical tape to prevent them from splitting from the clamps.

Oh yeah, IT IS A CRACK and does go all the way through! NO DOUBT about it.

Directly on the other side of the crack, there is a recess for the upper front engine mount bolt. it's a one piece bolt that goes through to the other side. The recess is not big enough, and/or it was over-torqued by me and/or the PO.

It is clearly there!

I was told to throw some JB on there from the outside and call it a day by one guy. I don't like this route. I had another guy, local cafe builder who has done some frame work for my honda cafe for me, come look at it. He said he can grind a groove from the inside with a die grinder and fill it in with a welder. No problems!

I am bringing it over his place Thursday.

[jharback]

Yeah, that sounds like the way to go. Good luck. Real bummer.

[merc]

yep
grind it and throw a groove weld on it and you should be good to go

[shizzomynizzo]

Got it fixed!

Can't wait to throw the cam cover back on tomorrow, set the timing and ride it leak free!

The guy who helped me out welding it had a sweet set up to say the least! cnc machine, computer run lathe, 3 bike lifts, blasting cabinet, parts washer, about 10 welders, paint booth, and much more! Bikes galore too. vintage harleys, yamaha's, honda's, kawai's. Drag bikes, cafe bikes, choppers. I am just amazed!

He is going to help me out finishing up my cafe honda, too. Fabing a license plate bracket welding a tab on the drum so I can run a cable instead of the pull bar on the rearsets.

Might even have him do a little paint work this winter. Trying to source a roadster tank, but will settle for fat bobs or a quick bob.