i have to admit i am 40, and have been riding since i learned on my dads old honda 350 at 13 years old, and i never got a license, hell i don't even think it was required back then.

is it required where you live and do you have one?

i have been stopped a time or two by the federalis' but it was never an issue,

http://xlforum.net/vbportal/forums/showthread.php?threadid=9793

I have a liscense and getting it (that is, going to school for riding) is the best thing I've ever done!

oh you bet, I get pulled over alot because my bike is pretty loud, there always warning me (no ticket) but they always check my license and reg.

Almost 35 yrs old and have had a bike license
since i was 16, thats like 19 trouble free yrs.

When you go out of town or out of state on
your bike why put yourself thru the hassle of
some lobo who gets a hard on for writing tickets.

:tour I too rode as a youngster without a license (don't think one was needed), but as mentioned previously, taking the MSF course to get my license was one of the best things I've ever done, besides, I always comply with the "easy" laws that don't get in my way. On the other hand I carried my Glock years before I got a concealed carry permit. I don't follow stupid laws. . . . .

Lefty
'05 Fatboy (Jolene)

Don't know where you're from, but in this country you have to be licensed or be on a permit to legally ride a motorcycle. I believe they take it very seriously everywhere due to the fact that they now have implemented the motorcycle safety course. I've been licensed sine 1980 but I've never taken the MSF which at some point I should and will because from what I've heard, even seasoned riders get something out of it. I strongly recommend that for the safety of yourself and of others that you take the MSF and get properly licensed.

Hi.
In My state(Oregon) you have to have a learner's permitt(Meening you passed the written test) or the full riders endorsment.
The Permitt only lets you ride during daylight hours, and yes, you suposta have a liscens ride with you(Riding along side of you).

If you do not have either, your insurance is null and void for you and your bike, and you will be treated as if you had no liscens at all(Unliscens driver).

An MC license is required everywhere. I have one becasue I don't like taking the risk of getting pulled over and getting fined for not having one. Around here, I know of a lot of people who got pulled over and had no license, and not get any tickets. They just check for reggie and insurance. Seems that cops in NYC are more concerned with you not having a stolen bike over not having a license

Had it now for about 18 years.

Florida required an MSF course for under 21 years of age, took the course one month before my 16th birthday since my dad insisted I learn to ride a motorcycle on public roads before I graduated high school, got my license at 16 motorcycle endorsement included. Took the course in 95'

Yes I do. The license is required. A no brainer.

Like a lot, I road in the 70's and 80's w/o license. This time around took MSF course, because in Kalifornia if you take it and pass you don't have to take the DMV driving test. Their course is very tight and alot of people said it would be hard on the Sporty. Got a lot out of the MSF course and highly reccomend.
In the the So Cal area the police and especially state (CHP) will impound bike for a month plus fine (my oldest son knows about this). Impound is $1000. There doesn't seem to be any liency on driving w/o your endorsement. They will impound if you have permit but are driving on the freeway or at night (not permitted w/ just permit)

I rode for about 25 years without one, living in 6 states during that span....right, wrong or indifferent, that's the truth...

I FIGURED that since I got pulled over once in the one-horse-town I live in, that I would be a marked man.....so....after reviewing the State's test (another story, deep in the forum somewhere), I decided to take the MSF course....BEST thing I ever could have done for myself....

Funny thing is, I haven't been hassled even ONCE since that one time.....SURELY the fact that I had been pulled over recently and found to be without is sufficient cause to stop me and ask! :) I happen to KNOW FOR A FACT that most, if not all of the local gendarme' KNOWS I have a new bike since the accident....STILL nothing...

But, as I said, I don't give a crap if you have a license, but for God's sake TAKE THE COURSE...it may save your life....

Rode for a long time without a permit, just had a learner's when I bought my Sporty!! :D

technically, no, not yet.

soon though grasshopper!! soon!!

I got my Motorcycle licence when I was 15 yrs old, that was 34 yrs ago.....Damn

Yes, friend of mine got pulled over and the (not so nice) officer was saying he could make him leave the bike parked right there until some came & got it.

When I first started riding you didn't need to do anything special, you could get your learner's permit at 15 and legally ride a motorcycle. Then in Florida just a regular drivers license.

I rode up here for a long while without a motorcycle endorsement until I was pulled over and the cop gave me a hassle (no ticket though)

I rode a few months on back roads while on the waiting list for the MSF course. I wanted to be licensed for safety and any fines for not having one would cut into my bike upgrade fund. :D

i got my permit a little over a year ago. then i took the msf before i bought my first bike. Take the class it is very informative and the things you learn in it can save your life and stop you from making any stupid mistakes. Better to learn the right way than the hard way. In NY you have to have at least a permit to drive but you cannot drive at night and you have to have someone that has a motorcycle liscence within sight of you at all times. and they just changed the law here so i heard. The dmv used to keep on renewing permits for people who never got their liscences before their permits expired so people would just keep renewing their permits over and over again for years. now they changed it to you can only renew your permit once or twice i beilieve it is then if you don't get your liscence you have to take the test over again to get your permit.

This day and age anybody riding around without a
license has a total disreguard for safety to his fellow
bikers.
If i knew someone didn't have a license i would
refuse to ride with them again till they took steps to get
permited or licensed. To me that tells me they are a
inexperienced rider, and that scares me cause they will
get hurt without even trying.

I got my license at 15 years old in 1974, been riding ever since. I guess doing the higher math that would be 31 years. :) I took the MSF back in 1987 (required for military) but have not taken any refreshers and don't intend to.

I did have to retake the written test a few months ago when I change my drivers license to Hawaii state. I had a Texas license for 30 years and finally changed since I retired here.

Later, chieftd

I didn't when I bought my first Sporty. I rode it for a month or two, then one day rode up to the DMV. I went in and got the book, studied it while in line. After passing the written test, the officer came out and called my name. He asked whos bike that was and I said mine. He said "how did you get it here?" and I told the truth, he said "sure is pretty, HOPE YOU PASS!!!!" I was nervous, but passed just fine. I renewed it the last time my license was due for renewal even though I didn't have a bike at the time. I knew I'd be riding again.

About a year ago a close friend took a spill at night on a debris patch while making a turn. He wasn't badly hurt, he had a helmet on which was cracked some broken ribs & a nasty rash. The bike was a total as was a street sign & streetlight.

Approximate costs:
$4,000 Medical
$9,000 Cost of new bike
$3,500 Sign & streetlight
$2,500 Legal costs
Total-$19,000

All because he didn't have his MC endorsement. His med ins at work won't pay because he was involved in an illegal action. The motorcycle insurer won't pay because he knowingly allowed an unlicensed driver (rider).

He's 45 yrs old & lives in his mother's basement right now.

An MC license is cheap compared to potential cost of not having one.

I just got my "training wheels" off last saturday. So yes I am liscensed

When I took my MSF class, there was one person in the class who had a real nice Harley, then had an accident and totalled it. Since he did not have a license, his insurance company wouldn't pay, so he is making payments on a 600 lb. hunk of metal. Also when you get your license, in Iowa, you pay $1 a year that goes to the MSF courses. I think it is worth it.

Don't know where you're from, but in this country you have to be licensed or be on a permit to legally ride a motorcycle. I believe they take it very seriously everywhere due to the fact that they now have implemented the motorcycle safety course. I've been licensed sine 1980 but I've never taken the MSF which at some point I should and will because from what I've heard, even seasoned riders get something out of it. I strongly recommend that for the safety of yourself and of others that you take the MSF and get properly licensed.

I was BORN in 1980...Is that the same thing?

Take some schulung its worth every penny and may be worth your life.

Oh yeah, just over a year now. Both the wife and I after taking the MSF.

Wreck. Hurt your bike. Hurt yourself. God forbid hurt someone else. Then see where no license gets you. Even if you are right as rain in the accident you will pay Hell for your laziness and the insurance company will pay nothing.

This ain't the 60's, 70's, or even the 80's. More people on the road. Bigger rigs. More distractions. More dumbasses.

Take the course. And if you can't get in, study, read, learn.

yeah i think i will get it done, but i do have to disagree with some here that suggest a piece of paper, legitamize's your experience,

experience is everything, but as some have suggested the expense of my bike really demands that i do something about it, if nothing else for liability purpose's, i'll update you on my progress, and i suggest the other two people here who voted no also follow suit,
thanks for your imput
freebyrd

I have a license. Back when I first started riding here in Alabama, a license wasn't required as long as you had a regular drivers license. A couple of years ago I went by the DMV to see if it had changed (I honestly didn't know, and had been stopped before and the police never said anything). Sure enough, now a classification is added to the drivers license to indicate you are licensed for a motorcycle. They just added it when I asked and I paid $15 for a new license.

A license? Isn't it back there on the rear fender, Man?

http://sportsmed.starwave.com/media/pg2/2002/1125/photo/i_cheech_hi.jpg

I just had to do it!

Got the permit. Will get the license when I take the MSF course.

Started riding in 1980, passed test in '81. It was a very easy test back then!

Even though I was riding scooters (50 -70 cc going up to 60MPH) for several years before I bought my Sporty, I signed up for the MSF Riders Edge course given through the local HD dealership. I had a lot of miles on the scooters, (30,000) and had learned a lot on them through gaining experence. By taking the MSF course I learned why certain things worked such as accelerating through curves, that I learned mostly by trial and error before. I had never tried counter balancing before taking the class! We had guys in the class that rode for 30 years and decided to get their license endorsement, that learned something new in the course!

Another advantage is that your insurance on the bike will probably go down if you take the MSF course and get your endorsement as well. Over the course of a few years that alone might pay for itself.

On the other hand - I also think there is no substitute for experence and riding time!! I think a lot of accidents that I read about in the local paper envolve a lot of folks that don't ride enough and understand the characteristics of their bike. They ride maybe a couple hundred miles in a season. They get stupid and run curves faster than their muscle memory knows how to handle the curve and cross the center line or end up hitting the shoulder. I have noticed if I don't get to ride for a several days, the bike feels different under me. I need to wake up the muscle memory after an hour or two things start to feel right again, and I usually put about 450 or more miles on my bike in a typical week.

At any rate - The class will teach just about everyone something. The endorsment will help with the LAW and your insurance. But there is nothing like getting out there and riding. Just my two cents.

Got my learner's permit at 15 (here it allows you to ride, just not carry a passenger) and my regular license at 16. That was better than 20 years go. No MSF courses available here at that time, but the test covered the same things.

Taking the MSF course is a good idea, but simply having a license is a better one, As has already been pointed out, insurance companies will not cover you if you do not have one. The ticket for riding without is generally some pretty good $$$$ and it really is not that hard.....

Mav

I have had my License for 39 years and lost it 8 times for speeding must have been a bad boy when I was young.

Grayfeather.

Went and took the MSF course soon after getting my first bike about 4 yrs ago. Which the wife owned when I met her, and she gave it to me "if" I fix the bike and get a license. She only just got her license last year, only becuase we planned on riding out of state.

Wow!

I cannot believe the amount of people that would overlook experience against a piece of paper. I bet that most accidents involving motorcycles are done by LICENSED riders!

Not trying to flame, was just a little taken aback by some of the comments.

I took the MSF course AFTER riding for over 25 years. I had a good time, made the most of it. I am in the same boat as some of the older guys. When I got my license, it covered everything but CDL.

As far as riding with anyone, I would be worried about the guy that has a VERY clean bike. Riding a couple of hours on the weekend or only when the weather is good (or having a license), does not make an experienced rider.

"Taking the MSF course is a good idea, but simply having a license is a better one"

You got that backwards. I would rather you know how to handle the thing and risk getting a ticket than having a license and not knowing how to drive the damn thing.

Just my opinion folk's, don't get all riled up! The weekend is near once again.

Promised myself I'd take the MSF course before I got my bike. Georgia wil issue you a license once you pass the course.

Yes, I got mine thirty years ago. Get caught w/o one, and they will tow your bike and impound it. Not a pretty sight.

[QUOTE=Moonpie]
"Taking the MSF course is a good idea, but simply having a license is a better one"

You got that backwards. I would rather you know how to handle the thing and risk getting a ticket than having a license and not knowing how to drive the damn thing.

QUOTE]


Sorry, I was unclear. One of the dangers of the quickly written word.

A better way to put that is: If you have the experience, just go get the license. It is a better idea than not having one.

I certainly would not want someone out there who is a danger. And anyone who I have taught to ride over the last 25 years can affirm that.

But the MSF course is a good idea.

I have never taken the basic course (like I say, did not exist when I started riding) But sat in with a buddy of mine who was teaching the advanced class. I got some cool tips out of it.

Mav

It's all good Mav!

This was probably not the first thread I should have read this morning! lol

Got mine and I took the MSF course. The MSF course is definetly worth it's time and cost.

I always try to think of the worst, but, IMHO any attorney would love to chew apart a biker with no license in an accident. Someone else gets hurt and you're involved, bend over and grab your ankles. :yikes

Get the license!

I have been riding for 25 years in all kinds of traffic situations ranging from country roads to interstate rush hour traffic . I believe the Motorcycle safety course is a great thing however i have no intentions of taking it . I personally believe experience is the best teacher sometimes . Yes I got my my permit before I took to the street and was taught by some very experienced riders . I grew up riding dirt bikes and such however if I was new to motorcycles I would definetley recommend this course for someone . I have always adopted the attitude that noone sees me and they will kill me if i take my eyes off the road for a split second . That thinking is why I am able to write this . Be safe everyone .

I've been riding for years and just got mine when I bought my new sporty last month. Don't know why I never did before. Just silly I guess.

I'm wrapping up my MSF course today, and going to get my license tomorrow.

Clanure

i have to admit i am 40, and have been riding since i learned on my dads old honda 350 at 13 years old, and i never got a license, hell i don't even think it was required back then.

is it required where you live and do you have one?

i have been stopped a time or two by the federalis' but it was never an issue,

I have my motorcycle endoresement on my drivers license. In Kalifornia, it's a strong bet that the cops will pull you over at some time and they will fine your butt if you do not have the motorcycle endorsement on your license.

Loco
So. Cal...

I have been riding for 25 years in all kinds of traffic situations ranging from country roads to interstate rush hour traffic . I believe the Motorcycle safety course is a great thing however i have no intentions of taking it . I personally believe experience is the best teacher sometimes . Yes I got my my permit before I took to the street and was taught by some very experienced riders . I grew up riding dirt bikes and such however if I was new to motorcycles I would definetley recommend this course for someone . I have always adopted the attitude that noone sees me and they will kill me if i take my eyes off the road for a split second . That thinking is why I am able to write this . Be safe everyone .

Curly, I agree with you in part that there is no substitute for experience on a bike. However, experience is a funny teacher; you generally have to make a mistake first before you can learn from it. Sometimes that first mistake will get ya killed out there.

I have taken the MSF basic course, and I will be taking the experienced riders course next month. I grew up with dirt bikes, and started riding street bikes in the 80's. I learned things at the basic riders course that I did not know, and expect to learn things at the experienced course as well.

With all due respect, I have heard from riders with more experience than you who say that they picked up good information when they took the MSF course. If you choose to be close-minded and not take the course, that is your prerogative. But don't think that there is nothing there to benefit you.

In NC, you get the permit for passing the written test. It's good for 18 months. During that time, you're supposed to go to the DMV and take your drivers test. However, passing the MSF basic course will be accepted as a substitute for the driving test in NC.

Yep I got my Class "M" license. The written test is pretty good but having to do 3 figure "8" in a 30 foot box makes not sense to me whatsoever. It must be to test low speed skill or somthing. Just glad I did have to do that on my dad's geezer glide!

I rode for about 15 years without a license cause I don't think it was required when I first started riding. When I moved to VA in 1987 I found out you needed one, so I rode my bike over to the DMV took the written test. They had me ride around the parking lot once and done. I did take the experienced MSF course when I got this bike to help me get used to the extra weight and it being top heavy which was a good decision. Both my kids have passed the beginners test and are in the process of looking at bikes. I do think the beginners MSF course rules out a lot of folks who probably shouldn't be on the road to begin with.

I have a Japanese one. :D When I get back to the states I will get an American one. I did take the MSF beginners class and plan on taking the advance one as well.

John

I rented for a year before I got my bike. And to rent you have to have an endorsement. So yes, I have a license.

In Washington State it's not required that you have insurance on a bike. You can get a 90-day permit for passing a writtene exam which you can renew once. Then you either take the MSF or you pass their test. I have no idea what the DMV test consists of, though.

I keep hearing the word 'experience' on this thread. What about 'responsibility'. Wouldn't a responsible rider make sure he was legally able to ride his bike for insurance and general good citizenship purposes?
Even the local chapter of a well-known m/c club has an annual check of all their members insurance & licenses before allowing them to ride with the club.
I don't know about you guys, but I don't think you would be able to get bike insurance or plate stickers on a bike if you didn't have your m/c licence up here.
I got my licence in 1978, after a written test, then an observed ride through ha marked course. My experience came later, but there were a lot less boneheads and NO cellphones on the roads back then. Ontario has since gone to a graduated licencing program.

Georgia's MC license is based on California's program (The DMVS manual actualy states that).

In Georgia, at 16 you can get a M permit, good for six months, daylight only, no passengers, no freeways, requires passing a written and an eye test, as well as a sign test. If you pass an MSF, this will remove the requirement for the driving test.

Georgia requires electronic proof of insurance when you register your bike or car. The they will not accept the paper card in your wallet, a binder or paper copy will be validated against their database as well.

ok i wanna change my answer, i now have a permit!
:)

Yes I finally got it this year a week after I picked up my Sportster.

Took my road test in 1972..on a 125 Suzuki....Road that bike for 10 years...

u beat that was the first one i had 16 motorcycle let me have my freedom

I had been "Licensed" since 1984, BUT... I moved from Ma. to AZ to Ga back to Ma. in all that moving around the DMV somehow "lost" my "M" status, even after I've shown them several copies of my expired licenses, but they insist they have done nothing wrong......to make a long story short...LP for now. I'm kinda reluctant to give the state anymore money.


Dave

got my license in 1980 then did not have a motorcycle after 1985 until now.
But kept paying to renew it each year for the last 20 years, just in case.
Glad I did now that I got a bike.

I had been "Licensed" since 1984, BUT... I moved from Ma. to AZ to Ga back to Ma. in all that moving around the DMV somehow "lost" my "M" status, even after I've shown them several copies of my expired licenses, but they insist they have done nothing wrong......to make a long story short...LP for now. I'm kinda reluctant to give the state anymore money.


Dave
Dave bite the bullet and make your road test appointment at the Greenfield Mass DMV Office. It's very small and the test was over in less than 7 minutes tops and that maybe stretching it. Call 1-866-627-7768 to schedule a road test.

Here's what I had to do for the Mass Road Test:

1. Hand signals.
2. Did a small 4 cone slalom course turned around and came back through.
3. 2 consecutive figure 8's.
4. 2 lefthand circles and transition to 2 right hand circles.

That was it.

A friend of mine just got his license, he's been riding for over 30 years. He took the MSF course to get a waiver. There were two cops in his class that had been riding for a few years with no license either, but I imagine they didn't have to worry about getting a ticket.

Gazza

As far as riding with anyone, I would be worried about the guy that has a VERY clean bike. Riding a couple of hours on the weekend or only when the weather is good (or having a license), does not make an experienced rider



Having owned 4 harleys in the last 10 yrs and having been across
country several times from coast to coast will constitute for being a
experienced rider. Doing numerous ironbutt rides in rain or shine, including
sleet and frozen rain coming back from Daytona in 03.

Having been raised on 2 wheels and raced AMA Motocross for over 12 years
i have numerous miles and laps under my belt. Bikes are in my blood and
what i live for from day to day.

Dont' jump to conculsions on the clean bike theory, i choose to keep
the bike that way. Try not to dish people for not using rattle black cause
this really gripes my ass. Sorry but i have not reached the dark side of
my biking career yet. I take pride in all the wrenching and riding that i do,
and have been doing for over 29 yrs.

Just my opinion, don't get riled up for me kicking you back in your sac.

I had to think a bit before responding...I didn't want to "flame" anybody, but the topic actually made me hot.


Some people hunt without a license, and fish without one, or drive without one, and it pisses me off. These people think they are "pulling one over" on the Powers that be, they are too special to comply with the law, like they are somehow better than everybody else, and the thing is, these are very simple, easy, non-freedom robbing laws to comply with. Anybody riding for the length of time you guys have been riding would find the road test easy, just take it.

If you can't pass the written test, I don't want you on the road near me if you don't understand basic traffic laws and signs, either on a bike or a car. They are really pretty simple, too. If you are not smart enough to read the book and memorize a couple of facts, you are not smart enough to ride anywhere near me.

You'd be outraged, rightly so, if an unlicensed cage driver totalled your bike and put you in the hospital and it turned out their insurance company won't pay a dime because the schlub had no license. You're doing the same thing.

And one more thing, anybody who says that their 29 years of riding has given them all the experience they need, no class could possibly teach them anything, is a fool. You're saying "I already Know everything there is to know. There is no-one alive who can teach me anything."

Case in point: In my MSF cass, there was a E-Glide rider who claimed over 20 years riding experience, yet he said he never liked using his front brakes because he thought too much front brake would launch him over the handlebars, like on a 10-speed bike. (how he thought inertia was going to lift his 560lb bike plus his 240-ish lb body i don't know) Problem was, he reported that very often, in emergency stops, he would lock up the rear tire and go into a skid, which he was almost always able to recover from. After his second slide, he decided to take the class.

That's enough on that for now.

I just got my "M" endorsement today. I finished up my MSF class last night and was first in line at the DMV this morning. None of the tests I took were very difficult. I'm new at this and have only been riding for less than a year. I was able to pass every test (MSF and DMV) with very high scores. I learned a ton, but I actually noticed that the "experienced" riders were having a much more difficult time and loved saying things like "What the h:censorl would I ever need to do a figure 8 for?" By the end of class though, they all seemed impressed.

Clanure

I have numerous friends that have been riding for 20+ years, including a few police officers that do NOT have their motorcycle endorsement.

One friend (who I consider an excellent rider) has been riding for 30 years. After I told them about all my positive experiences with MSF, he took the course.

His first comment "Damn I learned a hell of a lot. Things I would not have considered before."

I consider that a heck of a recommendation.

Regards,

Some people hunt without a license, and fish without one, or drive without one, and it pisses me off. These people think they are "pulling one over" on the Powers that be, they are too special to comply with the law, like they are somehow better than everybody else, and the thing is, these are very simple, easy, non-freedom robbing laws to comply with. Anybody riding for the length of time you guys have been riding would find the road test easy, just take it.
well to me it is all about control, and how much control your willing to let people have over you, it always begins with a little licensing requirment, and it then progresse's to helmet laws and seatbelt laws for your cage,
i don't want to get this into a political discussion but we are too much of a regimented law driven society, something like 15 million state,federal,and local laws on the books,
you probably broke a half dozen you didn't even know about just getting up and going to work today
freebyrd

Got my motorcycle endorsement in '76 (showing my age, I know). In Washington state. Basic written exam, then out to the parking lot for some figure 8's, a braking test, etc. I didn't do any wheelies or stoppies (although I was tempted). By that time I had a fair bit of motocross and competition experience and the whole thing seemed trivially easy to me. Think I did it on a Yamaha 360 Enduro or something.

Also took the test in CA when I moved there a few years later. Marginally harder, but still no problem. If I remember right, had to keep the wheels in between two yellow lines during the figure 8. Had a 450 Honda at the time.

Moved to ID after that. No M/C license or endorsement there at the time, although I understand that's changed. Last I heard, all the states now require it.

Moved to CO in '88. Po-dunk DMV department didn't have a parking lot for the test. Examiner walks outside, says "ride it around the block", I did, he signed me off.

Prolly the main thing about the written tests is they always make sure you understand the importance of lane position in any given situation, I've found that to be true of all the written tests I've taken. And it's important. Whenever I see someone riding a motorcycle like it's a bicycle, I cringe. Good way to get yourself kilt.

Yes I do have a motorcycle endorsment ,
but never took a msf course .

While back on R&R in May I passed my local HD Riders Edge. Colorado accepts the MSF for written and skills test. After 40 minutes at DMV I had a paper saying my permanent license was on the way with the M endorsement. Never been licensed before. I rode overseas and didn't need a license, stopped riding before the bases came up with their skills tests.

Had Lic, expired In WI, then WA, then AZ now in MO. I also have a CDL. Trooper told me to just ride it, but if stopped, would get a warning and 10 days to get it. If you go to Sturgis, most advised to have it. They fine if you don't have one and are stopped, not sure if permit is honored, don't think so. Finally renewed mine, keeping it current til I die this time.

It's common here in Western Pennsylvania for experienced riders to not have a license but instead to annually renew their learners permits. Two reasons:

1. - It is difficult to get into the MSF course.

2. - For those that can't get into the MSF course and decide to take the riding test on their own at a state facility the failure rate is high. The reason the failure rate is high is because of a little rectangular box. Most folks fail here by putting their foot down during the figure eight or going outside the lines because the box is small and the bike they ride is big. Instant fail.

Meanwhile, at the MSF course, the bikes are small 250cc cruisers where you can easily drag a peg all the way around a low speed turn, but the biggest difference is that if you put your foot down or go outside the lines it isn't instant fail like at the state run facility. It is just a point deduction.

About half the guys I ride with hold permits and most have more experience than me even though I'm licensed.

I have been riding since the sixties. In Florida, they were rather late to the 'motorcycle endorsement party'. When it became law, I took the written test and was 'grandfathered' in. I have my endorsement.
Still, taking the MSF course is on my 'to do' list, simply because when I stop learning I might as well be dead. I have personally witnessed far less careless riding since the law requiring a motorcycle license went into effect. Fifteen years ago I had a speeding ticket (in a cage). I took the Safe Driver course. Learned a lot that I am still using to this day.

Kim

This day and age anybody riding around without a
license has a total disreguard for safety to his fellow
bikers.
If i knew someone didn't have a license i would
refuse to ride with them again till they took steps to get
permited or licensed. To me that tells me they are a
inexperienced rider, and that scares me cause they will
get hurt without even trying.

A guy has been riding 30 years and because he does not have a license he is inexperienced? Disregard for safety?


"Having owned 4 harleys in the last 10 yrs and having been across
country several times from coast to coast will constitute for being a
experienced rider. Doing numerous ironbutt rides in rain or shine, including
sleet and frozen rain coming back from Daytona in 03.

Having been raised on 2 wheels and raced AMA Motocross for over 12 years
i have numerous miles and laps under my belt. Bikes are in my blood and
what i live for from day to day.

Dont' jump to conculsions on the clean bike theory, i choose to keep
the bike that way. Try not to dish people for not using rattle black cause
this really gripes my ass. Sorry but i have not reached the dark side of
my biking career yet. I take pride in all the wrenching and riding that i do,
and have been doing for over 29 yrs.

Just my opinion, don't get riled up for me kicking you back in your sac."
__________________
You took way to much offense! I was not talking about You or YOUR bike in anyway. I was trying to illustrate a point.
You tell me not to jump to conclusion, yet you did just that. It's the Internet man, try not to let it get to you.

You missed my sac by a mile, sorry. Try to have a nice day.

In Michigan you are required by law to have a cycle endorsment. Haven't been stopped in 30 years so don't know how they treat you here but I'll keep my license, I don't want to find out what happens.

moon , I agree with you 100% here a flippin piece of paper can not make you a better rider than years of expireance can

I have more miles backing up to the curb then most rider I know and can jump on any bike out there (foot clutch , right side shift, what have you) and rode for 15 years without a permit

then when I was sick and tired of paying the fines I got my endorcment and in two weeks got hit buy a buick (her fault 100%) . 15 years no permit , no accidents two weeks with permit and bamm

I will never be without my permit now cause I like being able to ride and not have to watch for the law all the time

Curly, I agree with you in part that there is no substitute for experience on a bike. However, experience is a funny teacher; you generally have to make a mistake first before you can learn from it. Sometimes that first mistake will get ya killed out there.

I have taken the MSF basic course, and I will be taking the experienced riders course next month. I grew up with dirt bikes, and started riding street bikes in the 80's. I learned things at the basic riders course that I did not know, and expect to learn things at the experienced course as well.

With all due respect, I have heard from riders with more experience than you who say that they picked up good information when they took the MSF course. If you choose to be close-minded and not take the course, that is your prerogative. But don't think that there is nothing there to benefit you.

EXCELLENT post, Rob....if my 60+ year old Dad was still on the forum (1%er, old school guy), he'd say the same thing. He took the course in just the past few years for the first time, and his eyes were opened in a BIG way...after 25 years of riding without, so were mine...

If ya want experience to be your teacher, I say you have to experience the MSF course..

Had Lic, expired In WI, then WA, then AZ now in MO. I also have a CDL. Trooper told me to just ride it, but if stopped, would get a warning and 10 days to get it. If you go to Sturgis, most advised to have it. They fine if you don't have one and are stopped, not sure if permit is honored, don't think so. Finally renewed mine, keeping it current til I die this time.

I have a CDL as well.....Class B

Now my license reads: BM :laugh

I have a CDL as well.....Class B

Now my license reads: BM :laugh

Does that mean it's not worth sh!t??? ;):D:D:D

21, been riding a year, no license.. none of my friends have one, my dad doesnt have one, but it is required by law.. have been pulled over a bunch of times, they just say to work on getting my license

21, been riding a year, no license.. none of my friends have one, my dad doesnt have one, but it is required by law.. have been pulled over a bunch of times, they just say to work on getting my license

Once they start pullin' ya over & hittin' ya where it hurts (the wallet), ya might change yer mind on gettin' that license...

I'd rather spend my money on speed parts than fines. Just my 2 cents.

I've blown over 10 grand in fines and lost time for jail after getting my driving after rev 6th offence for the second time (yes thats 12 driving after revs) not mention the 5 operating with out that got me revoked in the first place and the first offence that got me susspended

now I've said before that I rode for 15 years without and thats over one ticket a year so I'd say near 15 large in fines over the years , if I payed all that to the moco I'd be riding on a real nice b/t right now

In Florida we have a "motorcycle endorsement" on the regular operator's driver's license... been on mine for about 22 years...

21, been riding a year, no license.. none of my friends have one, my dad doesnt have one, but it is required by law.. have been pulled over a bunch of times, they just say to work on getting my license

Better hope you don't bust up yourself or your 2005 883C because afaik your insurance company will not pay for either if you or the bike get hurt if you aren't properly licensed. :yikes

I'd rather spend my money on speed parts than fines. Just my 2 cents. 6 of 1 half a dozen of another,cause then you'll be busting out the wallet for the speeding tickets :tour
freebyrd

I took the MSF class and took my certificate to the DMV and received my endorsement for a small fee.

Got my licence in 1972..Probably rode 100,000 Miles since then. Last year I took the MSF and learned tons of stuff I never knew. After riding more than 30 years, I never did the "push left turn left-push right turn right" thing. I might have been doing it without realizing it, but I feel like a much better and safer rider since taking then course

got my liscense...but my budy who rides a honda shadow got pulled over and fined for no license...registration...etc...$1200. Don't know about anybody here but I don't have that kinda money to just flush down the toilet!!!!

Yup sure so.
Everyonce in a while the SCPD and state troopers here on Long Island set up check points on the Expressway and Sunrise highway. They stop "EVERY BIKE"

I recently got for my wife a 2000 Sporty 883. She use to ride way back when but never kept up with her endorsement (if she even had one back then). I got my cycle endorsement back in 1978. Back then in MI you had to take a written test and a so called road test. Took the test and passed, took ex-brother-in-law's bike to the secretary of state for the road test. Out in the parking lot it all I had to do was a quick start, quick stop and a figure 8 without any feet touching the ground. Fast forward. I kept my cycle endorsement current though all the years and currently riding her bike (sorry babe....yeah right) LOL. She is taking the MSF class shortly of which I am also. I figured that even having an endorsement, I've been not riding for awhile and it would be very helpful.

I have a funny story. I moved from Texas to California with the M code. I returned to Texas and went to get my license and they said I couldn't renew my motorcycle license without passing a writen and riding test. I explained that I was originally from Texas and moved to California with the endorsement. They said no exception I needed to take the test.

I took the written without even looking at the booklet and passed. Riding test was a breeze.

that's the funny thing...IT ISN"T HARD TO DO! I've had a M endorsement in Arizona, Connecticut, Wash DC, Delaware, and Illinois. Never once in any of those states was the test hard. Yet there's folks out there just tempting fate and flaunting the law to prove...what...?? I would understand people avoiding taking the test if it was actually difficult...but...jeez, Parrallel parking a ford bronco with a surly inspector sitting in the passenger seat criticizing your every move, that's hard. a figure 8 on a motorcycle is not hard.

I didnt go much farther than down the street, til I got a permit. When I took the MSF course, out of about 12 people there was 4-5 guys that have been riding for years, some 20+ without a lic, because the CA dmv test is hard on a large bike. It was made up in the 70s when bikes were smaller. They said you had to drive behind the instructor as they walked you though the course, and you couldnt put your feet down. I wasnt even going to try after I heard that.

Yep, been licensed since 1985. Wish I could find a local MSF course, I think it'd be worth my time. Could always learn something new!
David

Yep, been licensed since 1985. Wish I could find a local MSF course, I think it'd be worth my time. Could always learn something new!
David

http://www.msf-usa.org/ has a 'find a rider course' tool on the main page. Having just done the HD Riders Edge course I recommend it. We all rode Buell Blast 500s and it was a very enjoyable course. No stress or yelling like you sometimes hear about the MSF. At the end we got MSF cards just like the folks to take the MSF at our local community college. Slightly more expensive I think but better bikes -vs- a collection of different model bikes. In the HD Riders Edge experienced course you ride your own bike.

Ah! Cool- thanks for the link... I'm checking it out now :tour
David

I had a valid license way back when in AL. When I moved back to AL from Ga., the M wasn't on there. To get it, all I had to do was take the written test. I glanced through the booklet while I was waiting.

When I was done and the officer was grading my test, she asked me if I had taken it before or something because it was one of the highest scores that she had seen. I missed like 1 question. I told her no, I didn't even know what was on the test til I got in line.


PS I love the new smileys. :banana

I have had a valid motorcycle license for 30 years!

For the past 24 years. Got it when I was 14.

been licensed since 1975

I've had one since 1971. That looks like a long time in writing, 34 years.

Old guys rule!

The deal is, when (if) you get pulled over, the first thing they ask for is licence, registration, and proof of insurance. if your papers are not in order, you are f***ed!

I got mine with help of a fellow rider. No classes just went out and got famillar with his
500 honda and the next day he met me at the dmv and blowie I got it. Took me a few years to get a bike though....

I took the MSF course at a the Harley dealer in atlanta......than I went down to have my M stamped on my license.

took the course in port arthur texas, got my M in tennessee. State will honor credited MSF courses. Reason I have M in tennessee I am in contruction and have worked from Fl to AZ. I did have to take the written and Eye exam in Tenn but not the course. My buddy did the same as me and all he had to do in Tenn where he took his MSF papers was the Eye exam. Different exam offices don't know, but I do suggest reading the M manual before taking the written exam. There are question on the written part that MSF do not cover. Tenn focuses heavily on alcohol and drugs, they suggest you read info in their manual pertaining to these two items and are not covered in the manual. Know your states alcohol blood levels not the national for intoxication. States vary on percentages. Could be the difference between getting and studying a few more days. One more thing. For those that don't like laws and feel like the old gov't is infringing on their "rights" Try living elsewhere maybe Africa, Bosnia, do I need to go on those people are dying everyday by the thousands. Why? No laws. Ben Franklin said society without laws there is no society. Founding Father of this greatest nation on earth. Besides if you didn't have a free voice your ass would be in a torture chamber or 6 feet under for "crying"

:tour

I live in Florida, years ago, when there was still a helmet law in this state i got myself into a heap of trouble one day. I was over at pops house one afternoon. He has a ancient BMW R50/2. I decided to see if it would start as it hadn't been run in a couple of years. Well, after tinkering around with it for an hour it sputtered to life. I thought I would go around the block once. Big mistake. Halfway around the block the bike quit and wouldn't start no matter how much I kicked. A police car drives past very slowly and at that point I thought I should just push it home. I gave it one more kick and it barely started. So I jumped on it and started to nurse it back home. The bike was backfiring and I was going about 5 mph when I noticed lights reflecting off of the gas tank. I was 50 yards from home. I looked behind me and saw Barney in a cop car two feet behind me. This guy lived a few streets over and was on his way home. He must have had a bad day. His first words were "I'm gonna take you to jail for not wearing a helmet boy". I explained I was just going around the block and that I had taken the helmet off earlier when the bike quit. His face got more red. He asked for my liscence(sp) and registration. When he saw I had no endorsment and that the tag was a few years out of date he had a fit. He started writing ticket. Two points for not having a helmet on, four points for no endorsment, and four points for the expired tag. Then he made me push the bike home in front of him.

When I went to court the nice lady judge looked at my clean(thank goodness) driving record and threw everthing out except for the helmet violation (only 2 points, non-moving violation).

I guess I am a moron because I still don't have an endorsment. I figure if the bike is legal and I am a responsible rider then when I do get pulled over it will be for something else. Might as well make it "2 for 1". :D

Had mine since '76

I took the written test last year and I practiced before I took my driving test and yes I passed both.

I got one right after i took my MSF class. Then i started renting motorcycles, then bought one. i'm such a good boy!

I got one right after i took my MSF class. Then i started renting motorcycles, then bought one. i'm such a good boy!

Me too... except I didn't rent... I just bought my XL1200R :D

just finished the MSF course last friday :)

waiting for the mailman to skip on down and deliver my card

I rode Illegal since the begining. I had 2 prior permits but never followed up on it.

When I got my Sporty I figured it was a big investment and I should follow through so I did and after 28 years of riding Illegally I'm legal. It kinda took the fun out of it but...

I took the MSF class because I wanted to learn how to ride and didn't know anyone with a bike that would trust me enough to ride it. It was the best thing I ever did because they taught me right, plus it took care of the driving portion of the test to get the motorcycle endorcement on my license.

I rode Illegal since the begining. I had 2 prior permits but never followed up on it.

When I got my Sporty I figured it was a big investment and I should follow through so I did and after 28 years of riding Illegally I'm legal. It kinda took the fun out of it but...

It took the fun out of it? Really? How so?

The first time I decided to get my license was back in the mid '70s. I was living in Hutchinson, Kansas (most of the time), and had a shovel/pan rigid frame, 6'' over front end with a jock shift and no front brake.

Well, I rode to the DMV early one morning with this pretty young lady whom we'll call ''Nancy''...since that was her name. She had a license that she got on her Triumph and was a good rider. A female rider was pretty cool but a rarity back then. Anyway, we get to the DMV and there is a wait that might last up to 2 hours. Being young and impatient and after being told that I had to have a shirt on under my cutoff, we decided that we would come back in the afternoon.

We went for a ride. Stopped at a bar or two and woke up the next day in Denver, Colorado in a motel room with hangovers, ( a rarity - motels, not hangovers - since I normally did not stay in motels, hotels or any thing but my sleeping bag on the road). My bike was in the room leaning against the bed. The carb was messing up and we couldn't get out of town so paid the ducks for the room.
Turns out we were in Denver because that's where her people were and I was cool with a long run in her interest.

One or two months later, (I was insulating new construction while there), I was hankerin' to go and she was hankerin' to stay so I made my exit. Headed back to Kansas. Woke up about a week later near Boston, Mass. with the sister of the Sgt. of Arms of a well known club in the area and knowing that our patches didn't intermingle, figured I should move on. Landed in N.Y. But thats a whole nother story.

Anyway, that entire time, I thought about my license and how I should have got it. I reflect on these memories from time to time cuz I still don't have a license even though I did attempt it one time after in the early '90's. Maybe I'll never get a license, but who cares?

Yes- got mine in 67 - it's been a long road.

I have have a M/C drivers lic for 38 years. I let it expire last year and went to get insurance on a 2004 sporty I bought. I agent said I need my endorsement back or the rates would be pretty high. Went down to get my D/L renewed and I had to go threw the whole process again like when I was 14. Those bastards at DMV ended giving me a learners permit to drive my motorcycle, with restrictions to boot ! No night time riding, no riding double, must ride with another motorcyclelist who also has a M/C lic. I mean I have been riding a motorcycle since I was 14 damn years old. Give me a break, they even made me come back in 30 days to take the riding part of it. I about crapped my pants when I went back. My driving instructor was a newbie, just hired and being train by a person that had never gave a actual M/C riding test before, but they did have the papers showing how to do it.?.?.?.?.?.?.? Well got my M/C lic again and for those who have them keep them even if you don't have a bike for awhile or think you'll never ever get on a bike again after a hard crash, keep you endorsement and save yourself alot bullshit later on !!!!!!! RIDE ON, RIDE HARD

Yep, got my motorcycle endorsement. Here in florida they give you a permit after passing the written test. good for 6 months and then you have to take the driving test OR Take the motorcycle safety course. I took the driving test on a suzuki dr250 dual sport. Piece of cake. :banana

My insurance company wanted a photo copy of my license once I had it. I didnt know they wouldnt pay a claim if you didnt have it. Someday would like to take the safety courses but havent yet. I also agree with others that experience counts for a Lot But getting a MC license is pretty easy. There really is No Excuse for not having one. My 2 cents...

LV

Got my endorsement in Illinois in '87, after being caught without it while being ticketed for making an illegal left turn. Had it transferred to my TX licence in '93, no additional test, and to my PA licence in '00 with no additional test. Good thing, too. I took the MSF last fall here in Pittsburgh and failed the riding test!!! :doh Luckily, if you already have the endorsement, they can't take it away. I plan on taking the test again, maybe get a lower insurance rate, I don't know. Passing will heal my wounded pride, anyway.

just got my MSF card in the mail. off to the DMV tomorrow to get my temp license
:)

*edit*
which famous person are you?

Had the endorsement on my Fla license for 30 years. Moved to Ga, wasn't paying attention when I got Ga license. Went to get ins on my Sporty. No endorsement, No Ins. Had to start at zero. Had to take written here, but my county doesn't have facilities for road test. Nearest 60-70 miles away. Dalton, Canton, Merrita. My fault for not paying attention.

Same deal. Had my Class M-1 in California over 20 years ago and then when I had some family issues and sold my bike and a few other things to help another in need, I let my license go to the wayside.

Man I got mine 7 years ago and treat my endorsement like GOLD!

Loco
So. Cal...

Got my illinois M license classification the day I bought my sportster, on the way to pick it up!
I took the test on my brothers '05 1200 sportster, that was fun,,, I think I could have taken it blindfolded on a little bike but the sporty made it interesting.

I have had mine for 27 years. Wife took Florida MSF and hasn't looked back. I think all new riders should take the class. I'm still learning. Ken

got a bike get a license without it your insurance(if you have any) aint worth the paper its written on ( well thats how it is in the UK)

I bet if even more car drivers started driving around unlicensed we'd all start moaning about it - especially if you needed to claim against one of them.

And lets face it if you have been riding for years it should be easy to pass.

I haven't spent the time to read this long winded thread, but IMO if you are going to ride, then you need a license. When I bought my bike, I didn't have a license. I had to go out and take a written test to get a permit and then take a driving test to proove I could handle my bike. The way I looked at it, if I couldn't pass the Illinois riding test, then I had no business riding. In addition, in order to get insurance on the bike (which was required since I had a loan), I had to provide a copy of my motorcycle endorsed license.

As a cherry in the m/c world, yes, I got mine this year (April, to be exact). Good thing, too. I picked up Shelly (my Sporty) in early May, one week before the Port Dover Friday the 13th run. Before Dover even happened, a local cop pulled me over (the rat never did give a reason), and the first words out of his mouth "May I see your license, registration, and insurance?". All he did was run my numbers and send me on my way, but I know full well if I didn't have that endorsement, that stop would've resulted in more than me just being hassled by some cop! Ever since then, I've kept that paper close to me like it was a '33 Double Eagle signed by FDR himself!

i got mine when i was 15! rode a 250 virago to highschool... my dad's a MSF instructor an ive been riding since i was little...

I took the MSF course and got my license because it has been 16 years since I owned a bike. I'm waiting on delivery of my 2006 Orange XL1200R now!

Its required by law to have a motorcycle endorsment here (Oklahoma). Very simple process, take a 20 question multiple choice test and a 10 min driving test. Basically a DMV person follows you a for a few miles and observes how well you abide traffic laws and safety precuation. Easy as cake.

Yep, since 1982. Had to have one and take the rider safety course given by the US Navy to get a base pass. 1982 Charleston, SC.

In truth, I have not read here the otherside of the MSF course. I have seen some new riders who have no business on a motorcycle period (even after the course) get thier little card to show the DMV to waive thier riding test because they are "TRAINED RIDERS". When I took the test to streamline getting back my endorsement, I was amazed at the passing rate. If I was an MSF Instructor, thier is no !!!!!!!!!! way half of my class passed that riding portion and the other classes out there looked just as bad. One dude was even shocked himself that he passed. THIS GUY IS A NIGHTMARE! :censor

Oh well. As for licenses and insurance, Califronia is so f--ked up that many cagers driving with no license, registration or insurance are getting promise to appear tickets when pulled over and causing all of our insurance rates to increase instead of being jailed and having thier cages towed, yet bikers (MOST OF US LEGAL CITIZENS WITH LICENSES, REGISTRATIONS & INSURANCE) are getting harrassed for BS just to have our papers looked at. Cops (no offense to the Cops here, but the way it is out west) in Huntington Beach, CA was checking bikers pipes and while running our paperwork. (Searching for wrong to nail us on!) Well as the Cop was harrassing me, a 1975 or something PIECE OF SHIT econoline van was sputtering by us while black smoke billowed out of the tail pipe. WE ALL DAMN NEAR GAGGED!

WTF is up with that I told the Cop, is that against EPA regulations? What about his damn pipes? He just shook his head and ignored me. He gave me back my paperwork and told me and 7 others not to come back to his beach.

Aint that America eh? Not for Americans and especially not for American Bikers! Sorry for the hijacking rant but again, I have seen some people passed that need further training in that MSF Course...

Ride safe everyone...

Loco
So. Cal.

[B]]do you need one?

Of course!

In truth, I have not read here the otherside of the MSF course. I have seen some new riders who have no business on a motorcycle period (even after the course) get thier little card to show the DMV to waive thier riding test because they are "TRAINED RIDERS". :censor

Aint that America eh? Not for Americans and especially not for American Bikers! Sorry for the hijacking rant but again, I have seen some people passed that need further training in that MSF Course...

Ride safe everyone...

Loco
So. Cal.

Loco - My MSF instructors shook everyones hand, said congratulations you all are now qualified to ride in a parking lot! :roflblack You all must Practice Practice Practice! Fortunately I took the Harley Riders Edge MSF course. We had great instructors, we all rode Buel Blasts, and we all had a Bike. Rode two full days on the course. In my class there where a couple of guys that had ridden 30 years, and even they learned something in the class. The MSF course varies all over the country. From what our instructors told us they also teach an MSF class at several of the local community colleges. They said these classes are always overcrowded, and the opportunity to ride is limmited by the number of donated bikes available for the class.

YMMV :smoke

Loco - My MSF instructors shook everyones hand, said congratulations you all are now qualified to ride in a parking lot! :roflblack You all must Practice Practice Practice!
The MSF course varies all over the country.
They said these classes are always overcrowded, and the opportunity to ride is limmited by the number of donated bikes available for the class.
YMMV :smoke

Here in Ohio, the State pays for a good portion of the MSF, the student pays $25.00. I can't speak for the entire state, but the course here in Cuyahoga County was taught very well. The class size was limited (24 I believe) and there were enough scooters for everyone. The instructors took it seriously, but with enough "light-heartedness" to keep it enjoyable. And if you didn't show enough ability, you failed. We had two in our class that couldn't handle the scooters or themselves and it showed. I personally believe they wanted to pass just so they could wear "colors" and say they had their license. One in particular, at break, all she would talk about was the colors and her desire to get a FZXLRVT12million and how fast it would go, yet she couldn't remember to start the scooter in neutral :rolleyes: .
In hindsight, I think the instructors were very cautious with her, yet gave her every opportunity to learn.

Loco - My MSF instructors shook everyones hand, said congratulations you all are now qualified to ride in a parking lot! :roflblack You all must Practice Practice Practice! Fortunately I took the Harley Riders Edge MSF course. We had great instructors, we all rode Buel Blasts, and we all had a Bike. Rode two full days on the course. In my class there where a couple of guys that had ridden 30 years, and even they learned something in the class. The MSF course varies all over the country. From what our instructors told us they also teach an MSF class at several of the local community colleges. They said these classes are always overcrowded, and the opportunity to ride is limmited by the number of donated bikes available for the class.

YMMV :smoke

:roflblack :banana :banana

Sounds like your Instructors got it going on. The course I was in was at a community college and to me these Instructors just seemed burnt out.

Loco
So. Cal.

Yep. Got mine when they first introduced them. I can't remember back in the early seventys I think.

yep.....required...insurance and emission insp too...

Yes, I have motorcylce licenses for New Zealand (since 16 years old), Hong Kong and Singapore. Lived in HK for over 10 years and Singapore for more than 2. You definitely need a MC license in all of these places - riding without one will get you fined and void your insurance in the event of an accident.

In fact, when I bought my sporty here in Singapore the dealer asked when I got my MC license - if less than 1 year then cannot get insurance. Singapore also has graduated licenses for MC - grade 2 - up to 200cc, grade 2A - up to 400cc, grade 2B - any size. So to get insured on a harley I needed to have a 2B license for more than 1 year.

Cheers,

Brett

The MSF course I took was well taught and class size is limited to 8 with 2 instructors. We all had 250cc Hondas, Yamaha's or Suzuki's. The instructors clearly stated that passing the course would get you your license but that the only way to learn to ride well is ride, ride, ride. They also offer an advanced course. The point of the course though, is to get you started with some good information and get you to thinking from a different perpective. We had 2-3 riders with many years experience and we had 1 or 2 that had never been on a bike before. Everybody learned something. Back when I was a kid, all you needed to do was pay an extra $2 for your motorcycle license. No test at all. The MSF course is clearly a superior way to go IMO.

The MSF course I took was well taught. The instructors clearly stated that passing the course would get you your license but that the only way to learn to ride well is ride, ride, ride. Everybody learned something. The MSF course is clearly a superior way to go IMO.

I agree jhawkr. Just took mine this weekend. The instructors were all VERY experienced riders and real good guys. All rode Electra Glides. We had a blast!

It's an excellent course and I recommend it to anyone. We had a couple of people who I thought, "Oh no, please don't let them get on a bike!! They'll kill themselves!!" But, those people could actually ride fairly well on the course by the end.

I'd like to take the Experienced Rider Course in a few months.

I had a ratty old Yamaha Virago 250, but ironically, the seat and shocks were tons more comfy than my Sporty. :frownone Oh, the sacrilege!

Garman68 finaly got his licens.
Give him congrats on his website: www.xl883c.com

...They also offer an advanced course.

Disclaimer;I really don't know how the MSF course is structured; whether it's international, national or state to state, based on a set of guidlines.

I was told that the Ohio MSF Course is hoping to be adding a third class; calling it the Experienced Rider. As I understand it, the Advanced Rider course can be too confining, since it picks-up where the Basic Course left-off and then there isn't enough room for the more experienced riders, wanting to learn more then the presented "advanced" skills. Hope they can find the instructors to get it going.
EDIT> I think I might have the names backwards. The current Experienced Rider will be called the Advanced Rider and the new course "Experienced Rider".
I'll be taking the (new?) Advanced Course in a couple of months and looking forward to it.

And I wasn't sure motorcycling was going to be for me, my buddies were right, I love it.

Ride Safe,

Yes, as a matter of fact, I do.

What of it?


:gun

Just got mine this week, after years of riding without one. Now I don't get nervous when I speed.

In Southern California, where I live, if you are pulled over with a bike or cage and can not produce a valid license, the vehicle will be impounded. Here, you have two choices, take the written test and get a permit for one year that limits you daytime riding without a passenger or any freeway riding and then take the skills rest (which is basically a parking lot test and has no road skills involved) or take the MSF and get a waiver on the skills test at the Department of Motor Vehicles. Now, there is no such requirement for a cage operator as they only have to pass the written and an easy drive through the neighborhood. I learned to ride in 1968 and a class C license was all that was required to operate anything with 2 axles and less than 6,000 pounds gross. In 1974 they started requiring a class known as M1 for motorcycles. I have a license but it pisses me off every time I think about that stupid skills test or the $200 people pay for the MSF. Now, if they made the cage drivers do the driving class for $200 or offered a reasonable skills test that was on the road like the cage test it wouldn't bother me.

Stephen

I went to the local DMV and took the written and riding test and failed it the first time but went back after a few months and passed the test. I live in Miami, Fl and the cops here don't understand the shit of not having a license

Took the MSF at Harley dealer in Merrita. Expensive, but well worth the money. Head instructor was great, all were good. Small class [12] on Buell Blast. some of the best money I've ever spent. 3 nights and 2 whole days on bike. Learned a lot and Unlearned a lot. :p

Question, if your an illegal alien and get a illegal alien liscense. Can you also get an illegal alien motorcycle liscense?

Finally got my first MC license this year after attending MSF Basic Riders Course...rode from age 14 to 27 without a license. Figured I have way too much to lose now for not following the law (family, job, insurance, etc...). Already signed-up for the MSF Experienced Riders Course in October.

Riding everyday, rain or shine...

Question, if your an illegal alien and get a illegal alien liscense. Can you also get an illegal alien motorcycle liscense?
It's no fun being an illegal alien. :banana

I was grandfathered back when Florida started using MC endorsements back in the late 70s or early 80s, and when I settled in Ohio in the mid-90s, they transferred my MC endorsement from Florida without me having to take the riding test.

Rode from 1964 to Aug 2004 with no license. In Aug 2004 took the MSF course and got my license. Had been stopped a few times, but all the cop cared about was registration and insurance papers. During those years lived in Pennsylvania, Illinois, Maryland, Kentucky and Texas.

Down at the office had to fill out the forms
A pink one, a red one, the colours you choose,
Up to the counter to see what they think
They said "it doesn't count man, it ain't written in ink" ....


It's no fun being an illegal alien. :banana

Well, opinions are all over the place...lol. Its easy to guess age by reply. I'm an older guy and I remember when there werent seat belts in cars too. Much less required insurence. Did you know as a national average 62% of people driveing today are uninsured. I voted against helmet laws. I believe the government is way to into everyones buisness. I've been rideing motorcycles since the 60's and I've had a couple of licenses. When I moved to Oregon from california the DMV failed to add the "D" to my car liscense when I changed stated. Now they seem to have a hardon for takeing peoples vehicles to add to the city revinue. The City I live in has a cone course about 20 feet long with 8 chicanes...kind of rediculous. So i guess I'll get the learners permit and say" Yes officer the guys just took off" lol Stupid laws................Flash

NJ has had a motorcycle license requirement as long as I can remember - it's an additional endorsement to your regular driver's license and requires successful completion of a motorcycle road test. I've had the endorsement for 42 years, since I started riding...

Thumper26

Yup. MSF and license.

In CT you can't register the bike without it, nor get insurance.

In OH, for the first year you have your liscense you have a "Novice" indicator on it. My novice indicator expired today, heh heh.

Had mine since 1981.

I have mine.

Well, Yes

KInda helps

:tour I too rode as a youngster without a license (don't think one was needed), but as mentioned previously, taking the MSF course to get my license was one of the best things I've ever done, besides, I always comply with the "easy" laws that don't get in my way. On the other hand I carried my Glock years before I got a concealed carry permit. I don't follow stupid laws. . . . .

Lefty
'05 Fatboy (Jolene)
Yeah there is alot of stupid laws, i kinda like the easy ones too.

I have had one all my life(I'am almost 50) cause in chicago if you don't have one and get stoped It's get's towed from the frist time and every time!When they tow it all they do is wrap it aroynd the gas tank and pick it up!!!!:censor

Yes, had my motorcycle license since 17, always had it, always renewed, even in the years when I was without motorcycle. After I worked all summer, saved my money and bought my first bike, 1972 Kawasaki 175 enduro.

43 and I've had a MC license since 16. Best advice my dad ever gave me. (Not really) but he told me always keep the MC qual current whether you have a bike or not. I always have.

Snake

Got mine the day I turned 16, same time I got my drivers license.

It took me awhile but I finally got one a couple of years back.

Definately a good idea to get one if you ride and don't have one. Yeah Xena, I also think you would benefit from it (MSF) although most of the stuff is covered here. They also have an advanced class which is highly recommended. I know around the bike clubs I'm one of the few that ever even considered it. No regrets! Saves money on your insurance in Virginia. Basically pays for itself over time.
Ride to Live!

Since 1970

yep for close to 40 yrs

Yep! I gots one! In Illinois it is mandatory: No D.L./No Ins. = bike/car/truck impounded. Chicago: $650 + tickets (no D.L./No Ins./No City Tax medallion/plus whatever you originally got stopped for..called probable cause) + towing + storage for every day in the pound adds up to a major screwing!

Mandatory in Norway too. Couldnt touch a bike without it! Until you get your own you have to carry a licenced driver as a passenger. Fines for driving without are astronomical.

Washington State requires a motorcycle endorsement. You have to pass a written and riding course, administered by the Dept of Licensing. To get on a Navy base in the Puget Sound region, where I work, you also have to have passsed a safety course, too (but this is not required by the State). Even though I have ridden for many years, I'm looking forward to going through the safety course in January. The instructors provide the bikes - small displacements, I'm sure. Should be fun and I'm expecting to learn new things about riding.

We can get a learner's permit by passing a written test. It's good a year.

I swapped my permit for the real thing after passing a MSF course. The DMV accepts the riding test in place of a their own riding test for a license.

I am licensed and took the MSF (very worth while). I don't know why anyone would risk being pulled over w/o an "M" on their license. Also, even if you believe that the MSF has nothing to teach you, it can lower your insurance (although I'm guessing that if you don't have a motorcycle license, you probably don't insure your ride either).

Take the 2-hrs/ night for one week and the $75 (or what ever it is) and go through the MSF. Heck, if you work nights, you can take it over a 3-day session if you're willing to give up your weekend. Its worth the time and money and its just something a responsible rider ought to do.

Late blumer to motorcycling. Got bike, training course and licence. Ahhhh.

I got my MC endorsement in 1970. Had it out of my wallet many times since. Not so much lately. Either they are getting easier or I'm getting slower.

I took the MSF beginners course a few years ago because I had taken some time off and was having trouble switching from right to left hand shift. Good review but didn't help with the shifting. Missed the advanced course due to a hurricane. Apparently they don't cancel the course due to horizontal rain.

Couldn't see the sense of losing all my driving priveleges if I got stopped on my bike, so when Ohio said I had to get a motorcycle endorsment as they're called here, I went & did it. Been so long ago I don't remember when that was, but then there's a lotta stuff I don't remember these days. LOL

I took the written test when I was 14 (28 years ago). As I moved from state to state, when I changed licenses, I was asked if I wanted to keep the MC endorsement, which of course I did. I took the MSF a couple of months ago to get my Sporty registered on base. It was worth the time and money. Not only that, but my insurance rates dropped after I took the MSF course.

Yep! I gots one! In Illinois it is mandatory: No D.L./No Ins. = bike/car/truck impounded. Chicago: $650 + tickets (no D.L./No Ins./No City Tax medallion/plus whatever you originally got stopped for..called probable cause) + towing + storage for every day in the pound adds up to a major screwing!
Ditto in San Diego. Can't swear to the $650 but the rest is the same, so I got mine too.

another means for the man to keep me down!

I rode without any special license (as many here) in Florida back in the 70's and 80's. Then when I relocated to Virginia in the early 80's they started the "special license" requirement and the Navy required the Motorcycle Safety Course. The special license was an easy endorsement at that time, the course (I thought) was a pain to schedule. I sold my bike and stayed on four wheels until this past year. I have now passed the written and riding tests at the DMV and am considering the MSC in the future.

Good to be motoring again.:banana

I began riding in 1961, Only had a drivers license for cars, don't know if it was required or not but was pulled over often and never got in trouble for not having MC endorsement. In 1972 someone told me I needed a license so since I had matured slightly I got mine, it's $2.00 extra a year.

It is required in Cali and yes I have one... I had one before I got my bike...
I took the MSF class and I really recommend taking it....especially someone
who is new to riding...

Yep! I gots one! In Illinois it is mandatory: No D.L./No Ins. = bike/car/truck impounded. Chicago: $650 + tickets (no D.L./No Ins./No City Tax medallion/plus whatever you originally got stopped for..called probable cause) + towing + storage for every day in the pound adds up to a major screwing!

It was not so bad 20 years ago. You didn't need the endorsement for your insurance but I got pulled over in Chicago in 1984 for an illegal left turn and got cited for not having the endorsement (and for not having the tax medallion). I took the written and road tests right away and passed OK. The judge let me off when I showed up with proof of passing (and proof that I immediately paid the tax). From what you're saying, I got off damned easy!!!

Since then, the endorsement transfered over to Texas and then to Pennsylvania with no additional testing or cost. Good thing, too, since I took the MSC last year and failed (damned figure-8 and a lifetime of bad riding habits). :doh Fortunately, they can't take the endorsement away. :smoke

I'll be taking the course again in 2006 AND WILL PASS--just for my pride's sake. I have to confess that I learned a lot during the course, and am glad I took it.

Been ridin' since '74 - got my license in '05...
No tix in the intervening 31 years :tour

I never rode on the street until I got my license. In Maryland, it's FIVE POINTS on your license for driving without a motorcycle endorsement. That means a trip to court, and one more point will get your license suspended for 6 months plus you have to take driver re-education classes. It's not worth it. Plus completing the Riders' Edge course (or similar MSF course) gets you a discount on your motorcycle insurance.

I have a license for Everything. :roflblack
SGO

I have had my permit for 3 years because I wasn't riding that much, just on a crotch rocket. Last may I took the MS class at the local university. So I'm totally legal now.
I think I was reading in one of the first messages on this thing someone said they get pulled over for load pipes all the time but just get warnings??? SO not fair.
I live in Wisconsin, and they are REALLY cracking down on the loud pipes. I got a ticket last summer. WHATEVER. I told him thank you for the ticket, there will be a check in the mail, and no, I'm not changing out my pipes.

I got my license back in 79 when I bought my first Sportster.

Yup. Got it prior to purchase of my sporty, Feb 05. Took the riders course and didn't have to take the rider's test at DMV, just the written, after showing my certificate.

Yeah, 22 years.

In MI and IL you will be ticketed if you don't have the endorsement: I have lived in and been pulled over in both states. The MSF course is an easy way to get the motorcycle lic. I took the course 5 years ago after riding for a while without the endorsement: the course can also teach or retrain you out of some of the bad habits that many cruiser riders exhibit.... at least I did.

I recently heard that in 2004, of all the motorcycle related deaths, ZERO involved riders that had taken the course PRIOR to getting a bike.

Backin the mid 80's when I first got on a bike it was not required in Florida. After many years off a bike, I did take the course and would recommend it highly to anyone who hasn't taken it. Even if you have been riding for years.

Ok, here's my license saga. This is what I get for trying to do the right thing. I must warn you, it is lengthy. Most of my riding years have been in Fl where, at the time, no MC license was required. Well, after enlisting in the Marine Corps and with my deployment cycle, never was around long enough to ride much or bother with a new license. Recently, with my deployments slowing down and being stationed in SC and wanting to lead by example, I took the written MC test and turned in my FL drivers license for a SC license and a SC MC learners permit which you must have for 90 days; during which, you gotta do the base or state safety course. Well, got orders to CA before my 90 days were up so I figured, when I do the CA MSF course, I could fax SC a copy of my completion cert and I'd be good to go right???? WRONG!!! SC does not accept the CA MSF!!!:yikes Can you believe that??? So I went to the CA DMV turned in my two SC driver's licenses and took both written exams again and waited for about 45 days for them to send me my license in the mail. I did get a temp (paper) permit so I could ride. However, after over a month, No license! Called them and they told me, "oh, sorry, there was a computer mix up and we were waiting for you to call us to make sure it was you before we processed it." Can you believe that???!!! Anyway, about a week after, I finally got my CA driver's license with a motorcycle endorsement. So YES! I do have one. But after my experiences, I can see why some would say forget it and 'roll the dice'.

I got my 883 in August and went for the license riding test in September. I had not been on a bike (other than a 10 speed) for thirty years and the riding test was tough. The cones were too close together and the swerve test was a bitch, but I got the license and will likely take the MSF at some time. I don't know about fines, but I know that I would be un-insured without a license, and I'm not ready for that, there are too many ways to get hurt out there.

I went ahead and got the motorcycle classification when I had to renew in September. It was cool the first 15 minutes after receiving it in the mail and seeing the 'M'. And it proved handy when I picked up a chick at a bar that caught notice of it when checking my ID (yes I got carded ... I'm 24).

I got my motorcycle endorsement when NC first implemented it. Must have been in the early 80s, I don't remember. Believe it or not, back then, no tests of any kind were required. I just had to sign an affidavit stating that I knew how to ride a motorcycle, and then pay the fee.

When renewal time comes around you need to make sure the examiner includes the endorsement on the renewal. He almost let that slip one time. It aint so easy to get that endorsement now, tough written and practical test required.

Oh yeah, if you get any tickets during your license term, you gotta take all the written tests over again to renew.

yep, got my license on 28/07/05. got my bike (new and 1st one) on 29/07/05

Yes, I have a motorcycle endorsement on my Alabama drivers license. But then everyone who had a driver's license in 1991 was "grandfathered" in so there are quite a few people in Alabama with the endorsement but couldn't ride if their life depended on it.

Yes, I have a motorcycle endorsement on my Alabama drivers license. But then everyone who had a driver's license in 1991 was "grandfathered" in so there are quite a few people in Alabama with the endorsement but couldn't ride if their life depended on it.

That's a weird way to do it...:doh

Got my 2005 1200C end of june 1st week of July got my 6 month permit after taking the written portion of the test. Last Tuesday took the skills portion and aced it. My insurance company pointed out to my when I insured the bike that if I did not have a license or permit I would not be covered. A buddy at work called around for insurance quotes on his new bike. One called him back and said they should he did not have a motorcycle license in the state of AZ and could not insure him until he did. So damn easy why wouldnt you.

Here in North Carolina, a motorcycle "endorsement" is required. I do have it.
I've had a cycle license since 1969 in New Jersey - transferered it through Mass., South Carolina, Virginia, New York, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, and back to N.C..
I took MSF 1 and 2 then taught the MSF courses for several years.
I agree with the theorey that it is easy enough to get and saves mega hassles with the law.

Here in North Carolina, .

Not to hijack the thread, but....


Hey BigAl and Welcome to the forum!

Where are ya in NC?

[QUOTE=jimmymac]
The reason the failure rate is high is because of a little rectangular box. Most folks fail here by putting their foot down during the figure eight or going outside the lines because the box is small and the bike they ride is big. Instant fail.
QUOTE]
Similar situation here on Guam. Unfortunately they do not recognize the MSF course. I Failed my first time on my Sporty because I couldn't do three clockwise/counterclockwise circles inside a 10x10 box. Same reason as the above figure 8's, stay inside the box don't put your foot down.:frownthre

I have had my motorcycle license since I was 15 in 1974. In Texas you could have a motorcycle license at 15 for 100cc's or under with the bike being street legal. I had a blue Honda 100 that my dad bought for me and rode it till I was 16 when I got my car license and then it upgraded to any size bike. I bought a Honda 750 at that point and been on 2 wheels ever since.:clap

Back in 66 you didn't need a license, then in 68 or 69 we where required by law to have one. You didn't need to take a test if you had proof that you where allready riding, a bike registration for the previous year would do.

Legal since 1972.

When I thought about getting back into riding, the first thing I did was sign up for the MSF course. After passing, in Colorado you just take your certificate to the DMV and they automatically grant your "M" endorsement (for a $1 fee).

My husband had no license but had been riding dirt bikes since he was 8 and then switched to street bikes in his 20s. This past summer I wanted to take a refresher course (but didn't feel ready for the ERC yet), so I talked my hubby into taking the MSF BRC with me. For someone who'd been riding for almost 35 years, he learned a hell of a lot and actually had fun. So now he's licensed and can do more fun things like test ride bikes and rent them, if the need ever arises. He doesn't regret the cost or the time spent taking the BRC, and he has become quite a vocal advocate for everyone who rides to take the course, even people like himself who have been riding all their lives.

I also got even more out of it the second time around because I could concentrate on the actual riding skills, rather than just keeping the motorcycle upright! ;)

The reason that I started riding in the first place was because you could ride two-wheels with a learner's permit at 15-1/2 and you had to be 16 for four wheels (California in the 60's). Special permits/endorsements didn't exist. I've been without a motorcycle endorsement (I'm 53 now) until last year when I bought a new Sportster in Georgia. Progressive (Drive Insurance) made me get an mc endorsement to buy a policy even though I wasn't financing the bike AND they photocopied it at the dealer when I picked up the scoot. Wanna know the real bummer? I flunked the riding test first time through!

I got my first m/c license in 1970. I let it lapse when I moved to Connecticut and when I moved to Arizona 10 years ago I still didn't have one. The police here will issue you a ticket but the ticket can be wiped if you get a license within a certain time of the ticket. So, I felt there was no need to