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Old 1st March 2009
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Default Any really REALLY smart types here, like engineers?

I have an idea that I want to bounce off other's ears, and it's pretty technical. It's directly related to air cooled motors, and it doesn't exist yet either. And there really isn't a forum that this applies to either, lol. Just something that popped into my head while staring at a turbine engine the other day.

What I'm thinking of is a Liquid to Liquid cooler that would cool the oil and heat the fuel for better atomization. Out there huh?

Anyway, just throwing it out, tryin to see if anyone smarter than me (and I'm pretty smart, lol) has any thoughts on it.

Thanks!

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Old 1st March 2009
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Ok lets here it
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Old 1st March 2009
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Yeah, except that hot fuel doesn't produce as much power as cold fuel. That s why racers use fuel coolers on race cars.. or you'll see bags of ice at the track ontop of intake manifolds. or how the numbers really jump when the temps drop..
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Old 1st March 2009
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Originally Posted by 203Cree View Post

What I'm thinking of is a Liquid to Liquid cooler that would cool the oil and heat the fuel for better atomization. Out there huh?


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Originally Posted by ReddTigger View Post
Yeah, except that hot fuel doesn't produce as much power as cold fuel. That s why racers use fuel coolers on race cars.. or you'll see bags of ice at the track ontop of intake manifolds. or how the numbers really jump when the temps drop..
Correct. But warmer fuel does improve efficiency. And mostly when they're icing down they're more worried about inlet temps. Cold air will affect power output more so than fuel temperature.

I was thinking of the potential benefits of the cooler oil temps as well. With cylinder temps lower, there's potential to run a bit more timing without worries of detonation and without having to dump in a shit ton more fuel to keep temps down.
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Old 1st March 2009
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I think you may have a good idea, without knowing any details that is.
There could be some benefits to running a little cooler oil temps and heating fuel.
How cost efficient is your product, idea, invention, or whatever it is, to produce, market, install, maintain, service and replace?
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Originally Posted by Sleeper View Post
I think you may have a good idea, without knowing any details that is.
There could be some benefits to running a little cooler oil temps and heating fuel.
How cost efficient is your product, idea, invention, or whatever it is, to produce, market, install, maintain, service and replace?
Hard to say having never made one. I'm not even sure the results would be worth the effort really. I guess I'd have to make one and do the data logs on it before I could say one way or another. The design it's self isn't that complicated. One of the side perks of it is your oil capacity would increase a bit as well.

The biggest thing I don't know the answer to is how much oil vs how much fuel you'd have to run thru it to see any kind of measurable temp changes.

Does anyone know the avg oil temps you see during normal riding? I don't have a temp gage on my oil bag, so I'm in the dark on that one.

Also, any idea's on what typical cylinder temps are during normal riding?
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Old 1st March 2009
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Would it be worth the cost and complexity? I don't mind water leaking from a leaky radiator, but gas and oil? Ever seen one of those Nascar guys on fire?

Actually, all you'd have to do is make an new carb float bowl with copper tube wrapped and brazed around it for the oil to flow in and out. Then use a regular oil cooler.
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Originally Posted by ReddTigger View Post
Yeah, except that hot fuel doesn't produce as much power as cold fuel. That s why racers use fuel coolers on race cars.. or you'll see bags of ice at the track ontop of intake manifolds. or how the numbers really jump when the temps drop..

Hmmm... I always thought that was to keep the beer cold
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Would it be worth the cost and complexity? I don't mind water leaking from a leaky radiator, but gas and oil? Ever seen one of those Nascar guys on fire?

Actually, all you'd have to do is make an new carb float bowl with copper tube wrapped and brazed around it for the oil to flow in and out. Then use a regular oil cooler.
That would work well IF I had a carbed bike, lol. I was thinking an aluminum catch can with some AN fittings and some stainless lines. I'm not exactly to the whole design portion yet, just in the concept stage. This is why I posted it though, you guys are making me think a bit already.
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Originally Posted by 203Cree View Post




Correct. But warmer fuel does improve efficiency. And mostly when they're icing down they're more worried about inlet temps. Cold air will affect power output more so than fuel temperature.

I was thinking of the potential benefits of the cooler oil temps as well. With cylinder temps lower, there's potential to run a bit more timing without worries of detonation and without having to dump in a shit ton more fuel to keep temps down.
Sorry, but warmer fuel does not increase efficiency. Warmer fuel is less dense and can lead to detonation and vapor lock.. Cool, dense fuel makes horsepower!


Quote:
From VP Racing’s
Jason Rueckert
Director of
Motorsports Development


The Cool Fuel Jacket is a great idea for racing... The cooler the better...100% of the time. Warm fuel can lead to problems with vapor lock and detonation... A cool, dense fuel charge will always yield more horsepower. Not only will you see an increase in horsepower from the cooler fuel temps, you will also protect your fuel from harmful UV rays. Direct sunlight will degrade your racing fuel quicker than anything else... The Cool Fuel Jacket will provide the means to a cool, consistent, horsepower increasing fuel charge.”
Cool Is better, which is why you'll also see Nitrous racers purge the system prior to launch to get a cool charge in there. Why Barry Grant Fuel systems developed a fuel Cooler like a oil cooler. You're idea is going in the wrong direction..
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