The Sportster and Buell Motorcycle Forum Biltwell  

Go Back   The Sportster and Buell Motorcycle Forum > SPORTSTER MOTORCYCLE & BUELL MOTORCYCLE FORUM - GENERAL DISCUSSION > Riding Tips & Safety Advice
XLF Gallery XLF Classifieds XLF Blogs XLF Shout XLF Arcade XLF Disclaimer/Privacy Statement/Terms Of Use

Riding Tips & Safety Advice Got a question about your riding technique or safety issues?

Members Birthdays
RYCA Motors
Superbrace
Get Lowered
S&S Cycle

Ironworks Magazine
Reply
 
Share Thread Tools Display Modes
  #81  
Old 21st August 2011
firemedic24 firemedic24 is offline
Flat Track Racer
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 244
Sportster/Buell Model: 883
Sportster/Buell Year: 1989
Reputation: 3797
firemedic24 is a jewel in the roughfiremedic24 is a jewel in the roughfiremedic24 is a jewel in the roughfiremedic24 is a jewel in the roughfiremedic24 is a jewel in the roughfiremedic24 is a jewel in the roughfiremedic24 is a jewel in the roughfiremedic24 is a jewel in the roughfiremedic24 is a jewel in the roughfiremedic24 is a jewel in the roughfiremedic24 is a jewel in the rough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrumpyCoyote View Post
This is totally incorrect - to the point of misleading. All manufacturers must submit the helmet to DOT for testing. You want a label? You need to send your helmet in. See here for the actual regulations. Those pass/fails are from submitted helmets. That said - any manufacturer can counterfeit at DOT label, any many do.

DOT and/or Snell (or ECE/SHARP in the UK) is not a guarantee of survivability, it is however statistically significant in reducing injury and fatalities. This is not opinion, or anecdote - it's math.

As for the "if it's your time" crap - it's meaningless. Your anecdotal evidence is likewise, meaningless - sometime people die wearing helmets, yes - obviously, but that has absolutely no bearing on the math.

DOT/Snell helmets reduce the odds of injury and fatality - the science is very clear. What you believe does not change those facts.

For the record, I hate helmet laws, I wear what I want, and believe you should do the same - but I also hate pseudo-science, mis-information, and superstition. The facts are clear - DOT/Snell do what they claim - reduce the odds of injury.
Well at least we all can see how you got your name....

Here is a direct quote from the article you posted... which you must have misread: In other words, a motorcycle helmet manufacturer would have to submit a helmet model to testing to the following regulations to meet DOT standards and the right to place the DOT sticker on the back of the helmet.

This states the manufacturer (not the DOT) must submit the helmet to testing.
With the number of helmets that hit the market every year, the DOT simply can not test them all. This is not incorrect, crap, opinion,anecdote, mis-information,Pseudo-science, superstition, or mis-leading.- IT'S MATH.

Since we are posting articles here is one for you....

The US Department of Transportation (DOT), National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA), announced in 1972, a draft motorcycle helmet standard. The Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard 218 (FMVSS 218), which is commonly referred to as the "DOT" standard. The FMVSS 218 draft was taken almost directly from the 1971 American National Standards Institute (ANSI) standard Z90.1. The original NHTSA plan included a major revision in 1974, just prior to the standard going into effect.

ANSI revised the Z90.1 standard in 1973. The criteria from the earlier standard was developed using older methodology. ANSI felt the 1971 standard was too difficult and added complexity that would not necessarily lead to better helmets. NHTSA on the other hand, continued with the original 1971 ANSI criteria. Unfortunately, the planned 1974 revision to the FMVSS 218 standard was not made. In 1974, FMVSS 218 went into effect essentially unchanged from the original draft.

Beginning in 1974, motorcycle helmets were required to meet the minimum requirements established by FMVSS 218, the standard detailed guidelines and test criteria a helmet must pass to receive a "DOT" approval. Over the years, slight changes have been made to FMVSS 218. However, 28 years later the standard remains essentially unchanged from its original draft form. Currently NHTSA has studies underway to evaluate and consider changes to FMVSS 218.

DOT Approved Helmets
How can you tell a helmet is DOT approved? Typically a sticker on the rear of the helmet with the letters "DOT".

How does the DOT monitor compliance with FMVSS 218? Would you be surprised to learn it's based on the honor system? Yes, you read that correct. The government relies on the manufacturer's word that the helmet was tested and passed!

Does the government do any testing? Yes, they do very, very limited testing of helmets. How limited? In 2001, they tested 40 helmets. Under the honor system, we shouldn't have to test any helmets.

What if a helmet fails? They publish the data and rely on the manufacturer to bring the product into compliance. In 2001, 20% of the tested helmets failed the performance tests. Helmets manufactured by AFX, Fulmer, HJC, M2R, NEXL and THH. At a 20% failure rate, do you think there are others out there that might fail the performance test?

DOT FMVSS 218 Standard Summary: Developed 28 year ago. Very, very limited testing. Based on the honor system.

And what might you ask is a helmet that does not meet DOT standards? Lets say it all together now "A Novelty Helmet."

I will admit you are correct in saying that DOT(helmets that passed)/Snell helmets do reduce the odds of injury, and fatality. My post was not meant to say any helmet (novelty,DOT, or Snell) is better than the other. How many members on this site have stated they would never wear anything less than a DOT helmet? When unknowingly they might be doing just that. And, further more these same members will bash anyone who go lidless, or wears a novelty. My post was to inform members that just because it says it's DOT does not mean it is. And thank you Grumpy for posting that article which supports what I said.

Maybe my "if it's your time.." is crap and your math is correct. But no matter the ratio..for giggles lets say 1:10...if you're the 1 it still wont matter what is on your head or not. Cheers!

Last edited by firemedic24; 21st August 2011 at 23:24.. Reason: Spelling
Reply With Quote
  #82  
Old 22nd August 2011
myndset's Avatar
myndset myndset is offline
Chief Harley Engineer
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 564
Sportster/Buell Model: xl1200
Sportster/Buell Year: 2006
Reputation: 1691
myndset has a spectacular aura aboutmyndset has a spectacular aura aboutmyndset has a spectacular aura aboutmyndset has a spectacular aura aboutmyndset has a spectacular aura aboutmyndset has a spectacular aura aboutmyndset has a spectacular aura aboutmyndset has a spectacular aura aboutmyndset has a spectacular aura aboutmyndset has a spectacular aura aboutmyndset has a spectacular aura about
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sylvan View Post
Everyone can twist all these words around any way they want to suit themselves but the fact is any authoritarian entity that demands an individual do things like wear a helmet or seatbelt is simply a fascist nanny and big brother type government, and as far as Im concerned any of you contro freaks who are into that sort of BS can kiiss my a$$!!!!!!!!

The last thing we need in the gene pool is more paranoid schitzophrenics sucking up to the incompetent authority.
Well said...
__________________
Dennis...
Reply With Quote
  #83  
Old 24th August 2011
GrumpyCoyote's Avatar
GrumpyCoyote GrumpyCoyote is offline
Drag Race Champion
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 372
Sportster/Buell Model: XL1200N
Sportster/Buell Year: 2008
Reputation: 1847
GrumpyCoyote has a spectacular aura aboutGrumpyCoyote has a spectacular aura aboutGrumpyCoyote has a spectacular aura aboutGrumpyCoyote has a spectacular aura aboutGrumpyCoyote has a spectacular aura aboutGrumpyCoyote has a spectacular aura aboutGrumpyCoyote has a spectacular aura aboutGrumpyCoyote has a spectacular aura aboutGrumpyCoyote has a spectacular aura aboutGrumpyCoyote has a spectacular aura aboutGrumpyCoyote has a spectacular aura about
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by firemedic24 View Post
Well at least we all can see how you got your name....

This states the manufacturer (not the DOT) must submit the helmet to testing.
With the number of helmets that hit the market every year...
...
Maybe my "if it's your time.." is crap and your math is correct. But no matter the ratio..for giggles lets say 1:10...if you're the 1 it still wont matter what is on your head or not. Cheers!
So you went from claiming DOT goes out to buy random helmets to agreeing with me that manufacturers must submit to get a sticker... and somehow that proves your point?

Odd reasoning. Whatever works for you.

I do apreciate the the post, but misinformation makes me crazy. You still jump to inexplicable conclusions about testing submissions and testing capacity - but it doesnt matter in the slightest.

The meat and potatoes of my post was to restate the data about helmet saftey. The science is very clear - DOT helmets are "safer" than no helmet, or non-compliant helmets. Since you appear to agree with that too at this point, I'll return you all to your normal thread.

Wear what you want... but let's stick to facts when discussing this stuff.
__________________
"The final measure of any rider's skill is the inverse ratio of his preferred Traveling Speed to the number of bad scars on his body. It is that simple: If you ride fast and crash, you are a bad rider. And if you are a bad rider, you should not ride motorcycles."
- Hunter S. Thompson, Song of The Sausage Creature

" First, a word on motorcycle safety: If you've put yourself in a position where someone has to see (or hear) you in order for you to be safe -- to see (or hear) you, and to give a **** -- you've already blown it."
- Neal Stephenson, 'Zodiac' (parentheticals are mine)
Reply With Quote
  #84  
Old 25th August 2011
firemedic24 firemedic24 is offline
Flat Track Racer
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 244
Sportster/Buell Model: 883
Sportster/Buell Year: 1989
Reputation: 3797
firemedic24 is a jewel in the roughfiremedic24 is a jewel in the roughfiremedic24 is a jewel in the roughfiremedic24 is a jewel in the roughfiremedic24 is a jewel in the roughfiremedic24 is a jewel in the roughfiremedic24 is a jewel in the roughfiremedic24 is a jewel in the roughfiremedic24 is a jewel in the roughfiremedic24 is a jewel in the roughfiremedic24 is a jewel in the rough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrumpyCoyote View Post
So you went from claiming DOT goes out to buy random helmets to agreeing with me that manufacturers must submit to get a sticker... and somehow that proves your point?

Odd reasoning. Whatever works for you.

I do apreciate the the post, but misinformation makes me crazy. You still jump to inexplicable conclusions about testing submissions and testing capacity - but it doesnt matter in the slightest.

The meat and potatoes of my post was to restate the data about helmet saftey. The science is very clear - DOT helmets are "safer" than no helmet, or non-compliant helmets. Since you appear to agree with that too at this point, I'll return you all to your normal thread.

Wear what you want... but let's stick to facts when discussing this stuff.
Grumpy your ability to misread or read between the lines to see what you want to see is amazing. You clearly did not read my whole post. Read the whole thing if you can't understand it let me know. I will spell it out for your next time.
Reply With Quote
  #85  
Old 1st November 2011
ozark's Avatar
ozark ozark is offline
XL Forum Gold Supporting Vendor
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: MIDWEST
Posts: 1,932
Sportster/Buell Model: XL
Sportster/Buell Year: 2005
Other Motorcycle Model: 02 SV gone but not forgot
Reputation: 63382
ozark is a splendid one to beholdozark is a splendid one to beholdozark is a splendid one to beholdozark is a splendid one to beholdozark is a splendid one to beholdozark is a splendid one to beholdozark is a splendid one to beholdozark is a splendid one to beholdozark is a splendid one to beholdozark is a splendid one to beholdozark is a splendid one to behold
Default I wonder what the results are comparing a novelty helmet to none at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bplinson View Post
Good read for those here that choose to use helmets. Full report attached.

"Novelty helmets present motorcycle riders with a higher risk for skull fracture and brain injury when compared to certified helmets. A motorcycle rider who wears a novelty helmet during a motorcycle crash in which the rider falls to the ground and the rider’s head contacts a rigid body such as a paved road will likely sustain fatal head injuries. Motorcycle riders who wear novelty helmets and believe that “something is better than nothing” have a false sense of security regarding the protection afforded them by helmets not designed
or manufactured to comply with FMVSS No. 218.
"
I sell and wear Novelty and DOT helmets so my dog aint in this fight. Test results comparing DOT vs Novelty helmets definitely indicate that DOT lids show better test results. I have never seen a test comparing a bare head vs Novelty. My money says a Novelty is better than nothing.

Ozark
Reply With Quote
Know Thy Hog

  #86  
Old 1st November 2011
darkdesign's Avatar
darkdesign darkdesign is offline
Senior Chief Know It All
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: qld australia
Posts: 834
Sportster/Buell Model: xl883c
Sportster/Buell Year: 2007
Reputation: 29586
darkdesign is a name known to alldarkdesign is a name known to alldarkdesign is a name known to alldarkdesign is a name known to alldarkdesign is a name known to alldarkdesign is a name known to alldarkdesign is a name known to alldarkdesign is a name known to alldarkdesign is a name known to alldarkdesign is a name known to alldarkdesign is a name known to all
Default

do zombies wear helmets?
Reply With Quote
  #87  
Old 2nd November 2011
mckey73's Avatar
mckey73 mckey73 is offline
Know It All
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 155
Sportster/Buell Model: xl1200c
Sportster/Buell Year: 2007
Reputation: 608
mckey73 will become famous soon enoughmckey73 will become famous soon enoughmckey73 will become famous soon enoughmckey73 will become famous soon enoughmckey73 will become famous soon enoughmckey73 will become famous soon enough
Default

In the movie "Biker Zombies from Detroit" they wear no helmets.
Reply With Quote
  #88  
Old 31st May 2012
bozoboy bozoboy is offline
Biker
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1
Sportster/Buell Model: 1200 roadster
Sportster/Buell Year: 2008
Reputation: 10
bozoboy is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

I feel that this a good topic to post my first post on this forum and i know its stalled thread. First let me start by saying that I have been reading this forum for some time and love all the info and ideas that are posted, I swear every other day that I read this forum is dangerous because I can start to hear the cash register opening as I'm reading.

Now as for this topic first I'll give my opinion on big brother regulating. NO!! I don't like it but due to the world climate we are forced to live in a semi big brother state and as unfortunate as it is that is what we got.

Now I live in Hawaii and we have a helmet law that states under 18 is mandatory to wear a helmet and I also believe that while you have your permit not your license you need to wear a helmet other then that its dealers choice.

As for me I don't own any novelty lids I have considered them but when weighing spending money on a lid or parts, parts won everytime. I do have 2 DOT helmets one FF and one half. I can stand the FF and use it especially at night or when there is rain, the half on the other hand I absolutly hate that thing I hit the freeway and all it does is choke me, so I use it as a nice shelf decoration. I am looking to pick up a licks 3/4 dot for more all around purpose's.

Now let me give my honest answer about my helmet use. truthfully I hardley ever use one. I always did for like the first year I started riding but once I was really comfortable with my machine and my skills I just burried it in my closet, truth be told my first ff helmet now belongs to my sister and she uses it when she goes riding with her boyfriend.

Now my two reasons why I stopped using a helmet and where I'm at today. First I started riding at twenty-one so back then as soon as I felt I had the confidence I was too kool for school and off it went. And secondly the helmet was just to dam hot mid day in hawaii stuck in traffic was not fun for me with a ff on.

Now today I'll admit that during the day I still don't wear a lid to often but am going to be rectifying that as soon as I can get my hands that licks 3/4 (birthdays coming up), however at night if i leave the house and its already or going to be dark soon I strap on my ff. Part of the reason I'm starting to change my tune is 1. I'm getting older and I'm not too kool for school anymore I ride for me now only it has nothing with being cool anymore. 2. I'm making the switch over to apes soon and just feel it would be a smarter choice to be wearing a lid, don't ask me y its just a gut feeling.

So yeah just my honest $.02. I love this forum! sporties are awsome and untill my back really goes out I'm not riding anything else.

Oh and by the way for anybody who is of the opinion that riding without a lid somehow makes you more aware and safe, well for me this hold true for the first few minutes of a ride at least but once I get in the zone and my head starts to clear I can honestly say the fact that I don't have a helmet on goes right out the window and my ride becomes no different than it would if I had my helmet on. Because and I know this is somewhat bad, but once my head clears and I'm just riding and not thinking. Yes I'm paying attention and being responsible for myself but its more instinct for me at that point and not so much of an active concentrated thought like it was when I first started that day's ride.

aloha everyone ride safe!
Reply With Quote
  #89  
Old 31st May 2012
nixl12 nixl12 is offline
Flat Track Racer
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 220
Sportster/Buell Model: XL1200R
Sportster/Buell Year: 2004
Reputation: 5724
nixl12 is just really nicenixl12 is just really nicenixl12 is just really nicenixl12 is just really nicenixl12 is just really nicenixl12 is just really nicenixl12 is just really nicenixl12 is just really nicenixl12 is just really nicenixl12 is just really nicenixl12 is just really nice
Default

hey bozoboy, welcome to the forum from Western Pa
Reply With Quote
  #90  
Old 31st May 2012
A 4 liter V8 eater's Avatar
A 4 liter V8 eater A 4 liter V8 eater is offline
Senior Chief Know It All 2nd Class
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Thompsons Corner, MD
Posts: 1,428
Sportster/Buell Model: 883 Flat Track Racer
Sportster/Buell Year: 2002
Sportster/Buell Model #2: RIP 1200S
Sportster/Buell Year #2: 1999
A 4 liter V8 eater has disabled reputation
Default

This is misinformation. Only a complete idiot would actually believe that wearing a novelty helmet is worse than wearing nothing at all. My novelty helmet saved my head from big time damage.

Of course they aren't the same level of protection as a DOT, but they do protect your head. What I look for in a helmet is to keep my scalp on my skull and have enough padding the cushion the vertical axis fall off the bike. No bobble head helmet is going to save you if you hit an immovable object at anything over 15 mph.
__________________
1999 XL1200S - SE slips ons, SE ignition 5500, 6800 & 7500 RPM (I got worried about the ignition getting discontinued so I bought what I could)

Link to thread on "Harley Racing" events across the country: http://xlforum.net/vbportal/forums/showthread.php?t=53470

These events include Hillclimbing, Flat Track Racing, Ice racing, Drag Racing, etc.. They are all sports dominated by Harley Davidsons. They are always located in scenic areas and are great weekend rides. The above link allows XLforum users to coordinate riding to these events together.
Reply With Quote
Know Thy Hog

Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


Custom Search

All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:15.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
XL Forum - Linson Media LLC