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Ironhead Sportster Motorcycle Talk (1957-1985) For all those that wanna talk about Ironhead Sportster Motorcycles

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1000cc, 1976, ironhead, sportster

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  #1  
Old 7th March 2012
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Sportster/Buell Model: XLH 1000
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Default 1976 sportster 1000, where to start

I should start by saying I didnt see a 1000cc tread here so if I start one in the wrong section, I will have to look better next time. Also this is a mixed question of top end and bottom end so didnt what to limit it to a certain forum and posting here. Some backround, then to the meat of the question. Bought a 75 sportster with a 76 motor on it 1000cc bored .10 over. was told it had bad connectiong rod bearings and besides a lot of work a somewhat easy fix. To make a very long story short its not a rod bearing and believe it to be a piston problem. so far I have checked all the specs on the flywheel and the connecting rods and side play and all are with in limits. I have right at 3/64 on the front and 1/64 on the back. When taking apart everything I found 2 mangled spacers on the rear cylinder intake cam that 2 along with the cam gear plate. My concern is why 2 when the book shows one and what caused them the mangle I do have some pictures but I thought I would post first and see how it goes from there. When measuring the pistons and cylinders the jugs are at 3.0200 and done seem "egged" but to me the pistons do. they are out of round. Not by much maybe one thousands of an inch I think the book calls for two without looking it up. Unfortunatlly I havent heard this run and I may have bought a lot of work but I can see the end product and wonder what would be the first thing I should tackle here. any and all advise would be great. i know I have kind of jumped around here and gone from top end to bottom and a little between. SO I hope some sense can be made of from this and some help can come my way
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  #2  
Old 7th March 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huntter27 View Post
I should start by saying I didnt see a 1000cc tread here so if I start one in the wrong section, I will have to look better next time. Also this is a mixed question of top end and bottom end so didnt what to limit it to a certain forum and posting here. Some backround, then to the meat of the question. Bought a 75 sportster with a 76 motor on it 1000cc bored .10 over. was told it had bad connectiong rod bearings and besides a lot of work a somewhat easy fix. To make a very long story short its not a rod bearing and believe it to be a piston problem. so far I have checked all the specs on the flywheel and the connecting rods and side play and all are with in limits. I have right at 3/64 on the front and 1/64 on the back. When taking apart everything I found 2 mangled spacers on the rear cylinder intake cam that 2 along with the cam gear plate. My concern is why 2 when the book shows one and what caused them the mangle I do have some pictures but I thought I would post first and see how it goes from there. When measuring the pistons and cylinders the jugs are at 3.0200 and done seem "egged" but to me the pistons do. they are out of round. Not by much maybe one thousands of an inch I think the book calls for two without looking it up. Unfortunatlly I havent heard this run and I may have bought a lot of work but I can see the end product and wonder what would be the first thing I should tackle here. any and all advise would be great. i know I have kind of jumped around here and gone from top end to bottom and a little between. SO I hope some sense can be made of from this and some help can come my way
Welcome! to the IronHead forum. You are welcome to post all of your IronHead questions here.

Please post the pics. Best to upload them to PhotoBucket then Copy/Paste the IMG code [not! the http code] from there to your post here.

The cam shims are optional. There are some threads in the Stickys explaining this, with both the pros and cons of installing them. Here is one ...

no cam shims apon re-assembly??
http://xlforum.net/vbportal/forums/s....php?t=1003853

There are two or three more threads concerning cam instalation. All good reading. Look for the last one of the red thread near the top.
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  #3  
Old 7th March 2012
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tracbike tracbike is offline
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diameter numbers are obtained from measuring the largest diameter of the piston, typically at the bottom of the skirt. All measurements should be taken 90 degrees from the pin centerline. pistons are slightly tapered
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  #4  
Old 7th March 2012
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Nice that Shes only bored to .10 over! Suggest boring to .20 new pistons and rings.
The cam spacers? dont use them, especially if the brass bushings are not torn up very much, check out the stickys here. And this is the best place to ask questions! welcome home!
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  #5  
Old 7th March 2012
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I will do my best to get the pictures uploaded tonight, The bike was 4.5 hour away and I saw a lot more after I got it home then I saw when I went to go look at it. He told me the top end had just been rebuilt and he heard a small knock in the bottom so took the heads and jugs off and saw the movement in the fwd connecting rod. But I didnt know all I should have when looking at the bike and when I got her broke down I saw this and that and I can tell the damn thing had sat out in the rain and if the top had just been redone he did a foul job. Anyway I have it and its going be a nice ride when its done. its exactly what I was looking for in an older harley. 60Weight that was my plan for the pistons I might as well go bigger with it and have fresh set of pistons and the jugs boared. It needs some work but it will be worth it in the end. What bugs me the most is why lie about it be straight up about it. I would have still bought it, but finding all this after the fact is only making me think karma is a B*TCH. thanks for the advise so far. there is SO much in this forum its hard to find exactly what you are looking for
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  #6  
Old 7th March 2012
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If it were me.....First thing I would do is make sure the bottom end is in good shape. There should be zero up and down play in either rod assembly and the side to side clearance should be within spec.
If that is good and the rod/crank assembly rotates smoothly without any binding all may be in good condition.

Then, and only then would I move to the top end.
Are the cylinders walls without any grooves or marks?
And you say you have measured the bore diameters?
Same for the pistons?

Do the top of either piston look to have an oily residue on the top?
If so, that cylinder is most likely burning oil.
If the piston tops have a dry carbon deposit then chances are good that the bores are good.

I would then install a new set of piston rings (gaped correctly on the ends) and put it together and start it up to see how it sounds/runs.

The mangled cam shims need to be removed and again, if it were me.... I would shim the cams to specification.
A large number of members will disagree with that and that is fine.
It seems either way works well with no problem.

You will want to drain the transmission and primary case and refill with oil before you go starting the engine up.
The primary and transmission share the same oil and that oil should be 60wt............ and it takes 24oz.
pg
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  #7  
Old 7th March 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tracbike View Post
diameter numbers are obtained from measuring the largest diameter of the piston, typically at the bottom of the skirt. All measurements should be taken 90 degrees from the pin centerline. pistons are slightly tapered
Just wanted to clearify that every piston has a "gage point" that a piston manufacturer will specify sometimes bottom of skirt within a .500 area. and some specify same right under oil reing area (measure both and take widest part) thats it.
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  #8  
Old 7th March 2012
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Well that somewhat gets into another issue he told me the connecting rod bearing and I didnt feel anything bad as far as up and down movemment in any way the only movement was in the side to side I have measured after the fact but my first issue I need to handle is finding someone to be able to true the flywheel. Aslo the whole flywheel assembly lloks like it has been replaced or has very few miles on it. I coul dhave left the bearing in place and went with it but since I am to the point I am with the flywheel and connecting rods I am replacing the bearings it 60 bucks that could save a lot of problems down the road. The Pistons do show some washing so yes there has been oil burning. I took some measurements on the jugs and they within limits but the fwd cylinder has surface rust and needs to be re honed so with the egg shapped pistons and having to be hoaned again thats why I am debating going to 20 over with it. The pistons may be within limits you are allowed .002 I believe without refering to the book at this second, for sure going with a new set of rings but that will come when I am to the point of the top end. As far as the bushings I am at work and havent been able to read all of the sticky threads but I know that when I took them off it had the spacers on the fwd cam I believe that was why they wer mangled. The cam and the tappet roller seem to be in good shape no sign of unusual wear or scaring. But Money is a definite issue and I cant afford to just say screw it and get a rebuild kit or new pistons along with jugs and and bore them out all at once so like I said one step at a time to do it right and avoid problems down the road or worse yet the middle of the road. I really appreciate the feedback so far.
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  #9  
Old 7th March 2012
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So at this point I find myself a bit confused.
It sounded like the rod bearings had no play in them but then I read you are replacing the bearings and need to find someone to true up the flywheel assembly?
So you are replacing the rod bearings?
These bearings have to be fitted and if the race is worn oversize rollers may be required and this has to be lapped to fit.
In other words a machine shop operation, and preferably a motorcycle machine shop.
This same outfit will be able to true the flywheels too. It takes a jig to hold the assembly for truing and I would let a good Indy handle the whole thing.

Then if you have rust in the front cylinder you are faced with re-boring both cylinders and fitting new pistons and rings.
I would only bore it out enough to clean up the cylinders, no more.

After that, consider that the valves are probably in need of help as well as the guides too.

Tell me about time and money spent rebuilding these old bikes.
I started the complete rebuild on my 1971 CH......... and 5 years and $5K later I found I was finally finished.
pg
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  #10  
Old 7th March 2012
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The side play in the connecting rods are right at the 3/64 for the fwd rod and 1/64 at the back. I have read about the oversized bearings and I figure if I am to the point that the flywheel has to be trued already despite what the bearings and rollers look like I should replace them to avoid a possible issue later on. I understand that all that has to be done by a machine shop and the truing stand and that whole process its a matter finding someone around here that had the adapter for the stand and the ability to do that. I have spread my search to Dc and baltimore since I am about an hour and half from both. As far as the cylinders they need work so I should go ahead and take them to 20 over since there were issues as I can tell with it at 10 over. and the front needing to be redone. Of course I dont mention the back one only beacuase it is in good shape but you cant do one and not the other..
My next post should be pics
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