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Sportster Motorcycle Motor - Top End Discuss Sportster Motorcycle Top End issues. Rockerboxes, Valves, Cylinders, Pistons, Rings, Lift Rods, etc...

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  #1  
Old 2nd June 2012
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Default Valve spring removal

Ok I need to rePlace my valve seals and was wondering what valve spring compressor will work on my 06 heads. Also what brand is the best. Also do any of y'all lap your valves in when you do This or am I just crazy? One last thing can I at home change my valve guides at home or do I need to send them off?
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Old 2nd June 2012
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You will need the big c-clamp type of valve spring compressor to change seals and yes you should lap your valves back in but do not be surprised if your exhaust valves are too pitted to get a good lap. Most of the time you will need to have your exhaust valve re-ground..

To change guides requires special tools to press them in and and out and you must re-cut the seats afterwards which also requires special tools.

If you need somebody to change out the guides for you NRHS can install bronze guides and we also of course do valve jobs. Just call me if interested.
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Old 2nd June 2012
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Ok thank you sir. I also know this is a ill outside the box but would you be able to change the guides and install the oversized valves and cut the seats to match but only on the intake for me. I want to do the porting myself as I want to bring over some karting port technology into my sportster by lightly "golf balling" the intake port and intake. I know this sounds odd but it picked up around .1-.25 hp on a 10 hp motor that has around the same rpm range as a sporty. As a performance person what do you think about the plan? Also wouldn't mind aws to look at this post.
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Old 2nd June 2012
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One more question for you sir. IF i did the golf ball machine work as stated above and sent you the heads would you be able to do the above work that i asked you do do and then test them? and if you would how would you test them.
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Old 2nd June 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clarkmac1985 View Post
Ok I need to rePlace my valve seals and was wondering what valve spring compressor will work on my 06 heads. Also what brand is the best. Also do any of y'all lap your valves in when you do This or am I just crazy? One last thing can I at home change my valve guides at home or do I need to send them off?
When I did my head gasket replacement, I also lapped the valves and replaced valve stem seals. Here is my low-budget valve spring tool, it's not pretty but gets the job done. I have too many 'specialty' tools as it is taking up valuable space in my garage, i didn't need another one The rest of the thread covered the lapping procedure as well as seal replacement.
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  #6  
Old 4th June 2012
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Clarkmac, the normal procedure for porting is to do the port modifications without the guide in place, because, well, it's in the way of doing a good job. But it's a bit of a chicken and egg problem, because you need to do the seat work in order to do the port work, but the seat work has to be referenced to the guide.

The way we do it is:

1) Cut the seat using the existing guide as a reference, but leave .010" of material
2) Do the port work
3) Install the new guide
4) Do the final seat shaping and blending using the new guide as the reference
5) Put the final profile on the seat

This is really the best way to do it, but of course, if you're trying to hire out the seat work but not the port work, it means sending the heads out twice.

We can certainly swap the guides and do the seat work, and leave the port work to you, but just keep in mind the guide will be somewhat in your way.

By the way, here's the program we use for the seat work, developed in-house:



As you can see, there are a lot of options, but basically, at the top we enter some generic information, then on the left is operations we want to do to the intake valve and on the right is exhaust valve.

The first thing we do is a "locate" operation (greyed out above because the "Cut Intake Seat I.D. box is checked). In this operation, the machine positions the head and we use a precise locating device called an "Indicol" to accurately located the center of the guide. We enter the exact X, Y, Z, and A positions into the program.

Then we do the "Cut Intake Seat I.D." operation. As you can see, we have the choice of doing a "Rough Cut" (with a specified amount of material to leave) and/or a finish cut. Either one of these operations requires entering the final valve size so the program knows how big to make the cut. It also takes in your target spring installed height so it knows how deep to make the cut. It also gives the option to unshroud the valves, which essentially blends the whole top radius cut of the valve job into the chamber.

There are some options as well for doing complete seat removals and cutting new seat pockets, but it doesn't sound like you're planning to change seats.

Once all the options are selected, Hammer Dan hits "Generate CNC Code" down at the bottom and this program writes the G-Codes and downloads them to the CNC machine. We then run the G-code program on the machine and it goes off and cuts and shapes the seats:



Although the above process gets the seat shaped properly and blended into the chamber and bowl, at the end of our process we also use a precise seat cutter of our own design to put the final valve job onto the seat:



The CNC machine has already shaped the seat, so very little material is actually removed at this step, it's just to put the final profile on the seat. The shape the seat is cut by CNC machine closely matches this profile, they're designed together. This is critical, because if your final seat profile doesn't match the shaping and blending, you end up with a turbulence-inducing mess where the profile cutter begins and ends. It's really the whole purpose of all this CNC automation I'm describing, to get the two to flow together precisely.

We put a lot of work into automating this whole process as shown to bring the highest quality valve jobs possible. Valve jobs are incredibly important for performance even though they really don't show up on a flow bench very well at all. With proper exhaust augmentation, the intake can see 100" of vacuum or more at the moment the intake valve comes off it's seat, and momentary velocities are through the roof, which makes this profile and the accuracy of the cut and blending just incredibly critical to the power the motor makes. That's why we put so much effort into getting it perfect.

Read more about our process automation here. Also you can see our ala carte head service prices here. Be advised that we're essentially shut down this week due to a major move of our shop, but we expect to be back up and running before the end of the week.

Good luck with your project!
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Last edited by aswracing; 4th June 2012 at 15:51..
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Old 4th June 2012
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I would recommend AGAINST the golf ball work inside the port. I know our race team has experimented with that in the past and results were not anything special. The finsish we use on our ports has proven iteslf to be the best of all worlds.
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Old 5th June 2012
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Thank you aws and nrhs for all the info. I know that both of y'all are on the cutting edge with your porting and I was just trying to think outside the box a lil to see if anyone had tried that befor and what the outcome was. Since it didn't workout well for y'all I'll probably just send them to One of ya to have the st2 or 3 done with a 1250 kit done. Would really like an 80" bore kit but think that I would have to split the cases to have them bored. Anyway...... Thank you to all who replied and I will be using your advice in the near future
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Old 5th June 2012
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yes to do anything larger than a 1250 (76ci) is going to require spliiting the cases so we can bore them. Looking forward to doing your heads if you decide to chose NRHS and feel free to e-mail me or PM if you have any other questions..
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Old 5th June 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clarkmac1985 View Post
Thank you aws and nrhs for all the info. I know that both of y'all are on the cutting edge with your porting and I was just trying to think outside the box a lil to see if anyone had tried that befor and what the outcome was. Since it didn't workout well for y'all I'll probably just send them to One of ya to have the st2 or 3 done with a 1250 kit done. Would really like an 80" bore kit but think that I would have to split the cases to have them bored. Anyway...... Thank you to all who replied and I will be using your advice in the near future
Clarkmac, I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the dimpling idea. The basic technique can be made to work if a) it's done in the right place (not everywhere benefits from it) and b) some other changes to the port are made as well. But like many beneficial changes to a port, it doesn't necessarily show on the flow bench, which means it's essentially a cut and try deal. If you're interested in doing it, we could guide you, just let me know.

Also keep in mind, if you decide to send them out for porting, that HAMMER PERFORMANCE's head porting process has been in place, continually refined and improved, for a decade now. All of the dyno results on both the NRHS site and the HAMMER site both were done with HAMMER's head porting process. Likewise all of the Bonneville records described on the NRHS site were set with heads prepared using HAMMER's head porting process. We have the knowledge, experience, and expertise to deliver the best XL head porting available, and the proven track record to back it up.

Last edited by aswracing; 5th June 2012 at 03:31..
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