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  #1  
Old 12th June 2008
pirate396 pirate396 is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 13
Sportster/Buell Model: 1200C
Sportster/Buell Year: 2001
Sportster/Buell Model #2: Ironhead
Sportster/Buell Year #2: E'84
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Default Bike quits after warm-up

I'm posting again after some changes, hoping someone will see something different form the last time.

I have a 2001 1200C, basically stock except for Screamin’ Eagle exhaust pipes and a Forcewinder air cleaner.

After the bike warms up and is running great for a couple of miles, I notice the tach drops to zero and the bike feels like it is running out of gas, then quits,

1. I replaced the petcock with a non-vacuum operated unit, cleaned and inspected the tank and have verified I have gas in the bowl when this issue takes place.
2. I rebuilt the carb due to a cracked diaphragm. Which I believe cracked during one of the backfire sessions as the bike was shutting down from a 3000 rpm run.
3. I replaced the coil.
4. I ran the bike with a hair drier blowing on the ignition module, trying to get the unit to fail under a heat load, and it never sputtered. After baking the module and never turning the bike off, I ran the bike for less than a mile and it quit.
5. While the bike is going through this failure period, I tested the plug wires and they both carried a spark.
6. As soon as the bike cools off, it runs great. (for about a mile)

Does anyone have any idea what to look for or test next? I am posting this on the carb and electrical/ignition forum areas hoping to find an answer.
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  #2  
Old 12th June 2008
Moved On / My Own Choice Moved On / My Own Choice is offline
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Next time it does it - pull the drain plug on the float bowl and see how much fuel comes out.

I'm wondering if maybe you're float is sticking.

If little or no gas comes out (or less than is normal - and you can check what is normal by doing it sometime when it IS running - well, not WHILE it's running, shut it off and check if you know what I mean) - then it's fuel delivery.
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  #3  
Old 12th June 2008
Fe Head Fe Head is offline
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Your statement that the Tach drops to zero would indicate that the grounding of the coil by the ignition module is failing and therefore the tach signal's frequency input signal is corrupted.

The high tension wires may still spark but their effect will be unimpressive. I belive your module is over heating severely - much more than a hair dryer could achieve and in doing so it causes a break in the solid state trace leads or internally inside the semi conductor controller chip itself. If you replace it I am quite sure your bike will live again and will stay alive for the long trips as well.

In some failure modes you will see a small protuberence over top of the area that has been smoldering - but not always.

Use a fine pointy thing to release the pins being held in the plastic connection after marking their colour on the outside of the connector for reassembly. You do not have to cut these wires to pull the bundle back through the nose cone.

Then you can see about securing a replacement backing plate and module or change brands and go for an aftermarket one.

Most independents have old swapped out OEM ones that they will let go for very few dollars. You could always try it first the you' ll feel better if it solves the problem.

Cheers;
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  #4  
Old 12th June 2008
Moved On / My Own Choice Moved On / My Own Choice is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fe Head View Post
Your statement that the Tach drops to zero would indicate that the grounding of the coil by the ignition module is failing and therefore the tach signal's frequency input signal is corrupted.

<snip>

Most independents have old swapped out OEM ones that they will let go for very few dollars. You could always try it first the you' ll feel better if it solves the problem.

Cheers;
Damn FE - I missed that -

Ya know, I gotta take a moment to say how impressed I am with the thoroughness and accurracy of your answers.

Damn smart mineral you are (iron is a mineral right?).

Oh and good suggestion on the swapped out module.


EDIT -

I GUESS it's possible that the motor COULD shut off from lack of fuel which would drop the tach to zero (as oppossed to electronically shutting down), but I think FE is probably on the right track.

Of course, if you check the float bowl and enough fuel comes out, you'll know that's the right track too.
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  #5  
Old 12th June 2008
pirate396 pirate396 is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 13
Sportster/Buell Model: 1200C
Sportster/Buell Year: 2001
Sportster/Buell Model #2: Ironhead
Sportster/Buell Year #2: E'84
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To FE Head

Other than marking and removing the pins from the connector, does everything thread up pretty easily through the small cone access to the underside of the bike? Timing the new module would be the next procedure I would need tips on. The factory manual has been pretty upsetting on most experiences I had so far.
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Know Thy Hog

  #6  
Old 13th June 2008
Fe Head Fe Head is offline
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Fe Head is just really niceFe Head is just really niceFe Head is just really niceFe Head is just really niceFe Head is just really niceFe Head is just really niceFe Head is just really niceFe Head is just really niceFe Head is just really niceFe Head is just really niceFe Head is just really nice
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Yes the the wire set and the protective loom/sheathing feeds in snuggly and sometimes you will need to hold your mouth just right as well (lol). I use some the dielectric grease to coat the opening and the wires to reduce the friction and ease the transfer. The dielectric grease is then placed into the connectors before the final conection is made. The dielectric grease adds an extra level of protection against future corrosion and possible failure over time.

Re: Timing;

I would really mark/scribe the current position of the 'V' knotch on the nose cone's housing with a sharp pointy thing like an awl or beveled end of a hypodermic needle before you loosen or move the current unit. I used to do it free hand but now I use a steel straight edge to keep the reference usable and straight out for about half an inch or so.

Make one mark starting from inside the 'V' knotch on either side of the 'V' straight out towards you. This becomes the base reference when replacing the module and backing plate. Then you can, using a thin strip of 16 guage sheet metal (0.06125"), make a couple more lines parallel and 1/16 of an inch apart beside each of the reference lines.

These lines then become a way of adjusting the timing by +/- *5 degrees (credit here goes to *Ironmick for his calculations) for each full 1/16th of an inch line the 'V' knotch is rotated towards. Moving the module and backing plate clockwise is advancing the timing when looking at the nose cone and module from the right hand side. Conversely moving the 'V' knotch counter-clockwise will reduce the timing if you are hearing the dreaded pinging when hot and under load or the fuel's octane is not as high as before. A half a line movement is often enough to alleviate the pinging.

There are other slightly more complicated ways using the dail back timing light and drilling holes on the backing plate to show the edge of the gap(s) in the reluctor wheel but I would stay with the easy approach for now.

Let us know how things work out.

Cheers;
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  #7  
Old 13th June 2008
Fe Head Fe Head is offline
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Sportster/Buell Model: XLH
Sportster/Buell Year: 1979
Reputation: 4105
Fe Head is just really niceFe Head is just really niceFe Head is just really niceFe Head is just really niceFe Head is just really niceFe Head is just really niceFe Head is just really niceFe Head is just really niceFe Head is just really niceFe Head is just really niceFe Head is just really nice
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kev M View Post
Damn FE - I missed that - ....snip... Damn smart mineral you are (iron is a mineral right?).
Thanks Kev, yes iron is a mineral and an essential one too, however, I may be getting a little rusty and need to switch to Pepsi as on another thread a forum member provided me with a good smile when this comment was posted.
Quote: Originally Posted by just1pepsi
"I dont know if you are a genius or an expert bullshitter, but I liked the post regardless."
My reply was ....... " - actually neither - that is unless you ask my wife."

Cheers;
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  #8  
Old 13th June 2008
pirate396 pirate396 is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 13
Sportster/Buell Model: 1200C
Sportster/Buell Year: 2001
Sportster/Buell Model #2: Ironhead
Sportster/Buell Year #2: E'84
pirate396 has disabled reputation
Default

Thanks for the tips, I'll keep you posted.
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