VOES 1.5" Performance Problems?

groovemeisterus · #1 7th July 2008

I finally got a vacuum tool and noticed that my VOES
was actually switching at about 1.5".

How would performance be affected for ported heads, better
carb, more Intake flow with that low of a reading?

After I found this, I immediately readjusted to ~6.5" from a post
I read some where about maybe NRHS suggested to a customer
about a starting point or something around this area in inches.

Bike seems to run better now with higher setting, but was wandering
if anything, what such a low setting would effect so I can try
and relate to the new setting.

Thanks for any info. Didn't know if I should have added this the the VOES
sticky since is both ignition "and" VOES question.

I discovered this after static timing my new SE 1200 6800 RPM module
with the Sears dial timing light, and they mentioned VOES in
the manual, so I went ahead and bought a vacuum gage to
look into the VOES settings, and how it effected the the timing
when engaged.

Does this Dyno show that my VOES and ignition timing was WAY OFF?
Or can this information be noticed from a dyno?
My sig shows my setup if that helps.

This dyno is with the 1.5" VOES setting, and bad ignition timing.

Thanks for any info or feedback.

Mattbastard · #2 7th July 2008

While 1.5" might be kinda shallow, WFO throttle usually triggers the VOES and causes the ignition to retard. If you took the vacuum out to 6.5", this just means the ignition will retard sooner than at 1.5" When I was adjusting my VOES I rode around with a vacuum gauge on my bike just to see what happens and when.

groovemeisterus · #3 8th July 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattbastard

While 1.5" might be kinda shallow, WFO throttle usually triggers the VOES and causes the ignition to retard. If you took the vacuum out to 6.5", this just means the ignition will retard sooner than at 1.5" When I was adjusting my VOES I rode around with a vacuum gauge on my bike just to see what happens and when.

Thanks Mattbastard for the info! My name just happens to be Matt also.

Great name.

I'm still researching and gathering data on ignition performance
related issues, but is it better or worse to retard the ignition sooner,
or does it depend on the riding/engine combo situation?

I think i'll also rig up my vacuum gauge while riding and look
for the min and max values for my configuration and go from there.
Good idea, why didn't I think about that

Any suggestions on mounting the gauge?

Thanks again.

jessearias · #4 8th July 2008

The VOES improves your part throttle and cruising. Dyno runs are done at full throttle so the VOES will not affect it.

BUT, your base timing curve will play a large factor in your power output.

Mattbastard · #5 8th July 2008

I just electrical taped the hell out of it to the handlebars. I got the surprise of a lifetime too. I had originally thought the harder you cranked on the throttle, the deeper the vacuum got. Exactly the opposite is happening. Cruise at constant throttle is a deep vacuum, where VOES is not retarding the timing, and WFO is a shallow vacuum, causing the switch to (close or open, I can't remember) and retard the timing.

I dunno, maybe I'm just slow...

groovemeisterus · #6 9th July 2008

Thanks guys!

I just got done with the mod!

I used some wire-ties and attached Vacuum gauge to
my handle bar top bolt, and another wire tie to the handle
bar it self. Then added a T to the VOES so can hook
in the gauge. Great idea.

Awesome to see what is going on in real time while riding.

I noticed during idle that vacuum gauge was flickering
from 10-13". Good to know info.

While riding, I can now get a feel for when the VOES should
switch in by feeling the bike and watching the gauge now!

I'm not for sure, but seems to correlate to my above dyno chart in lower
RPM range now since when the maybe the VOES should switch
earlier... higher vacuum settings maybe?

But I have ignition timed now, and have appointment to re dyno
on saturday.

I wander what the difference's will show. I can't wait!

I might even try some higher settings. Currently about 6.5" is
when VOES is set to switch. Might try 7-9" tomorrow since is
starting to thunderstorm now in Indiana and try some diff settings
tomorrow.

I re-routed my oil light wires for indicator to show when the VOES is active.
So oil light is always on... then when VOES switches, oil
light goes out at the 6.5" vacuum setting.

I also noticed that at WOT, then letting go, that the vacuum
reading went to around 23"! WOW... this is good live feedback.

Now I am thinking about getting exhaust bung and adding an Air/Fuel
ratio gauge for more feedback from my bike also.

I'll get my bike tuned to perfection in no time.

Now i've got the bug to get an LCD display, add a microprocessor,
write some software, and have all readings or feedback show up
on one electronic display, and maybe even store some data for
downloading and display data in excel spreadsheet or something
so can chart the data in visual form!

Jessearias... I have a buddy named Todd Tudor that left for Iraq
at the beginning of the year. I think he is involved with the convoys.
We keep in touch with yahoo IM and web cam when we are both on line.
He usually gets back to his quarters around 7-9 P.M. Indiana time, which
I think around early A.M. time in Iraq.

Be safe! If you hear or know of him, tell him you met Matt Hoover
on the xlforum!

Thanks again guys... good info!

Engine running Idle. Gauge indicator between 10-15".

Side shot of Vacuum gauge tube to VOES T.

rottenralph · #7 9th July 2008

Good right up and helpful information. I will use this when I put the turbo on. I need 100 h.p. and if all my beautiful compnents can't get me there, boost will. Did you just do a run or a dyno tune? I am a little shocked about the peak on your dyno. It is too low for your components. Has the playing with the settings given you a serious seat of the pants boost?

groovemeisterus · #8 9th July 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattbastard

While 1.5" might be kinda shallow, WFO throttle usually triggers the VOES and causes the ignition to retard. If you took the vacuum out to 6.5", this just means the ignition will retard sooner than at 1.5" When I was adjusting my VOES I rode around with a vacuum gauge on my bike just to see what happens and when.

Just for curiosity... what final vacuum setting did you use
for your engine combo

groovemeisterus · #9 9th July 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by rottenralph

Good right up and helpful information. I will use this when I put the turbo on. I need 100 h.p. and if all my beautiful compnents can't get me there, boost will. Did you just do a run or a dyno tune? I am a little shocked about the peak on your dyno. It is too low for your components. Has the playing with the settings given you a serious seat of the pants boost?

Hello rottenralph,

I usually just tune myself, then do a baseline dyno run from
the local Harley shop with my particular engine setup. $40. Then I will try and
find some patterns in the dyno charts to see how the changes I made
show up on the dyno curves. I can learn a little more about the
changes I make and see a difference on the dyno chart.

After timing my IGN myself with sears dial timing light, I was using
the SE orange wires. I had problems with upper RPMS with timing
and had to revert to my OEM plug wires because the SE plug wires
I think were too insulated and the timing light didn't blink at the
higher RPM.

I used the SE plug wires with my dyno and am now thinking
that the plug wires could have also made a difference since
the dyno operator had some probs reading plug wires, and
reverted to clamping the coil wires.

For my next dyno run, I will use the OEM plug wires to
make sure!

After getting the timing light, and trying to dial in the IGN, and
re-adjusting the VOES, I have noticed a seat of the pants difference.

BUT... it could be all in my head expecting it. Saturday I have an
appointment for another dyno run. When I do that I will post it
and share anything that differ's from the previous upper posted
chart.

I am still using stock cams. I like low end TQ acceleration and passing
semi's at low RPM on the highway.

I am thinking of N2's or N4's or maybe N8's.

I tend to be anal and research one thing at a time.

Top End...
IGN... (learning more)
and them which cams suit my style... and also
taking into consideration my head flow CFM
for cam lift and duration.

Which would make a difference with my ported heads.

Have a good one!