Suspension Help from XLXR

[Terp84Alum]

how much do you weigh: 170-175

what bike do you have: 2002 XL1200C

what have you done to the suspension: nothing

what do you want: not to feel like I've been riding on a motorcycle all day when I've only been riding for an hour. I'm not looking to change the look or height at all.

how much work and money do you want to put into it: basically, I'll buy and do whatever you think I need. If I have to pay HD to do the work, I will. Replacing the shocks look pretty easy. If I can replace the front springs by just taking off the caps, removing stuff and putting new stuff back in, I'm in.

Thanks XLXR. You're very generous for help us non-mechanicals out.

[XLXR]

Terp - my Mom has pictures of me jacking up my pedal car when I was 2 years old. I remember looking at the holes in the linkage and wondering if I could make it go faster by changing the pedals to different holes. That was 50 years ago. Mechanical stuff comes easy to me, and I have accumulated a lot of experience over the years.

If this is all new to you, I would recommend getting a more experienced buddy to help out the first time you do something. I can't possibly explain every detail, like not knocking the bike over when you lift the tire to check the travel, or how easy it is to strip out those torx bolts. But, once you do things once, the second time will be easier.

The problem with the dealer is they are expensive, and probably have very little experience making all the fine tuning adjustments it takes to maximize ride quality. My dealer just laughed at me when I complained about suspension problems, told me to get a Road King. The parts guy swore by Progressive 440's, which I later found to be garbage. Road Chick, Doxbike, Whittlebeast and yours truly now have suspensions far better than what the dealer provided. So if you are going to pay, do your home work first, and tell them what you want them to do.

Next, I have no experience with the pre-rubbermount bikes. You bike is 50 lbs lighter than the rubbermounts. However, the Progressive web site makes the same shock and spring rate recommendations for both bikes. Add your 10 lbs from the light side of 180 lb average rider to a spring for a bike that is 50 lbs heavier, and you end up with a very stiff ride.

A call to Progressive would be in order to clarify that question. I would search for a shock stock length, to possibly 1" longer, with the spring rate one size softer than 75/120 lbs/inch, maybe a 60/90 spring for solo, 60/100 two up.

Then I would soften up the fork spring to match the shock, minimal preload, 5 w oil, with and extra oz to prevent bottoming. Here is a thread with details about setting up forks. http://xlforum.net/vbportal/forums/s...ad.php?t=82517

These are just guesses to start with.

[Terp84Alum]

Thanks. I contacted Progressive. They made it pretty clear to me (kind of in a rude way) that the stuff listed in their site (412-4006C for front and 11-1523 for the rear) was accurate. Here is their response to my email:

The 412-4235 is not meant for your bike. You will want to order the part numbers that were listed on our application chart for your year make and model of bike. 11-1523 is the fork springs you will need and 412-4006, 412-4011 are the part number for the stock rear length in standard and heavy duty.

The guy even bolded the not. I included this part from your post:

Your bike is 50 lbs lighter than the rubbermounts. However, the Progressive web site makes the same shock and spring rate recommendations for both bikes. Add your 10 lbs from the light side of 180 lb average rider to a spring for a bike that is 50 lbs heavier, and you end up with a very stiff ride.

A call to Progressive would be in order to clarify that question. I would search for a shock stock length, to possibly 1" longer, with the spring rate one size softer than 75/120 lbs/inch, maybe a 60/90 spring for solo, 60/100 two up.

They didn't address this at all. I know a lot of people here are high on Progressive but my initial experience with them hasn't been that great. If they aren't the ones to address these issues, who is?

[snowman]

Terp - contact Dan at NRHS. He can give you some insight on this as well. I just installed the recommended Progressives for the forks and it makes a huge difference!!! No more bottoming out......

Talking to him about rear shocks and I think I'll be ordering my new shocks this weekend. He's been a real help and sells the parts too...

http://www.nrhsperformance.com/

[Terp84Alum]

I exchanged emails, or it may have been posts, with Dan. He's very helpful. In my case he basically told me that they carry all the lengths. Maybe I didn't push hard enough. At that time, I was really just window shopping so I didn't want to waste his time. He spends a lot of time here answering questions.

[XLXR]

They didn't address this at all. I know a lot of people here are high on Progressive but my initial experience with them hasn't been that great. If they aren't the ones to address these issues, who is?

That's the $10,000,000 question. You pays your money and takes your chances. Race Tech and Works are no better. Try Hagon. I do not know anything about them, but at least on their web site they offer you a choice of hard, medium, soft damping in the shock body and a choice of springs. Hard Racing and Lindeman Engineering are two companies that deal with race bike suspension.

[Terp84Alum]

I guess. I feel like I undertook a more difficult project last year and got exactly the results I wanted. They were even within 1 or 2 points on HP and torque. I guess I underestimated the complexity of picking out $200 shocks. I really do appreciate your and everyone else's input. This place is solid as a rock when it comes to help. Thanks

[XLXR]

I called Progressive and talked to a Justin. He recommended going with the 12 inch shock. All was cool until I contacted Eastern Performance. They don't carry the 12 but carry the 12.5. They can special order the 12 and it will cost $20 more than the 12 or 11.5. Not a huge deal but I thought I'd get your perspective. The guy claimed that the shock that they claim as stock is for a rider 150-200 lbs. He agreed with what you said but felt that I would be best served buying from the ones that the site recommended. What are your thoughts about getting the 12.5s or 12s? Thanks a million.

This is a copy of a PM Terp just sent me. This is a typical example of the BS that Progressive hands out.

Road Chick weighs 140 lbs, she tried the 11" 412 with 90/130 spring, the same spring available on 11" to 12" in shocks. Not even close to working for her, way too stiff. She is now on a pair of 1200S shocks with a 50 lb straight rate spring. She is now getting an excellent ride with a shock spring rate nearly HALF of Progressives recommendation. She is using a 1' lowering block. See her thread for details.

Adding your 10lbs under the average weight rider, and an 02 which is 50 lbs lighter than a rubbermount, you will need a spring about one rate lower than what the a 180 lb rider on a rubbermount bike will need. Yet they recommend a 12" shock with a 90/130 spring, one rate stiffer. NO WAY! I weigh 240 lbs, and have a 95/140 spring on order for my 13.5 inch WP shocks.

Fo the best, smoothest ride, I would recommend going with a shock spring rate LOWER than the 75/120 spring, especially for solo riding with whatever the stock shock length is, maybe up to 1/2" longer. The 75/120 might work better when two up.

But Progressive doesn't offer the spring rate you need for solo riding, yet they still try to sell you something that will not have a good ride.

Go read post 44, http://xlforum.net/vbportal/forums/s...t=82517&page=5, another of one of Progressives not so happy customers. It happens all the time with the other aftermarket companies as well.

[Terp84Alum]

The 12.5 412-4007C seem to be the ones to get. They are 75/120 with an inch more travel. Thanks for your help, XLXR.

[XLXR]

They will work good, with an extra 50 lbs of saddlebags when solo and don't hit any big bumps.