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Sportster Motorcycle Air intake, Carburetor, EFI, Fuel, and Exhaust Problems, advice and/or how tos for Sporster and Buell motorcycle carburators, Electronic Fuel Injection (EFI), Air Intake, Fuel and Exhaust.

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  #1771  
Old 10th July 2012
T^2 T^2 is offline
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Originally Posted by whittlebeast View Post
All the 14.6 (pink stuff) gets set to 14.3 or 14.0 (I don't recall) in step 2. It really doesn't matter all that much. Look at the crib sheet....

Beast
The Crib Sheet will tell him 14.3. However, if things aren't exactly clear then it might be helpful to still read it...
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  #1772  
Old 10th July 2012
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Originally Posted by sporty4t8 View Post
Any chance Hutch or T^2 have the cribsheet you could host or email me? Let me know and I'll send my email addy or add you to my public dropbox folder. TIA!
Not necessary...

You can just Google "Power Vision Crib Sheet". The first hit will be a post here on XLForum's with a link to the document. You can read it online...
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  #1773  
Old 11th July 2012
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Hutch08 Hutch08 is offline
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Sorry T^2, should of gave credit where deserved... HaHa

Here's a direct link to the crib sheet:

POWER VISION CRIB SHEET


And on a positive note, i picked up a set of plugs on my way from work... double checked the plug cables. No stored trouble codes.
Gaped them, popped em' in, loaded the initial FuelMoto tune just to be sure... fired her up and she purrr'd like a kitten. Went for a quick ride and all is well. Thank God it was that simple, must of been a cracked insulator on a plug or something, nothing I can see with my eye though.

Regardless it's running again, and thats all that matters!

Now, time to go back where I left off and gather another log.

anddd... 1hr later, back from another log.

That whole hesitation, popping, sputtering, hiccuping business is gone. I even made sure to take off well before the engine was at operating temp, just for verification with the warm-up tables, etc... So that's relieving. New plugs were definitely the trick!

As for drive-ability, it feels as good as it gets for running 14.6afr across the board. Only complaint is that it still pops on decel, but I know that's not gonna go away until I switch the AFR's in the 20kpa range.

So here's the MLV plots:





As for modifiable points, I have a lean spot at 10TP-1000rpm, which doesn't make sense to me. If the bike idles at 1000rpm, how is it lean at 10% TP??

And there's a few scattered rich spots, most of which are over 4000rpm and between 0-10% TP. That leads me to believe it happening on decel because it's almost impossible for me to hit those points accelerating. So is that really something to be concerned about?

This is definitely the best looking plot to date, I've never seen such a variation of color without that red blob or a huge amount of blue. I'm concerned if I start pulling VE's in the few blue areas that the troublesome red spot at 10tp-2500rpm will come back.

What would 'yall do from here?
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  #1774  
Old 11th July 2012
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Also to somewhat verify my theory..

By comparing the Tp x MAP x VeNewFront/Rear it shows if I'm lean/rich at low/high MAP.

High MAP= Accel , Low MAP=Decel



The only blue plots at 4000rpm and up are all under 40kpa, so to be at 5%TP 4000rpm and under 40Kpa has to be decel, IMO... Seeing that while cruising my MAP is usually around 50kpa. Also to further verify this, by looking at my timeline there's a direct correlation almost every time the VENew drops its right after the MAP drops.

Same goes for the spike in VE's, every time the VENew spikes to 104, MAP is usually at 20kpa.

Something relieving is that a found a few points where I did some hard accelerating up to 4000rpm, at around 60-70kpa VEnews are within a percent.

Only if I knew how to write those formulas, I'd do one for HD MAP at 20, 25, 30 etc.. increments. Jason??? Haha
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  #1775  
Old 11th July 2012
T^2 T^2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hutch08 View Post
Sorry T^2, should of gave credit where deserved... HaHa

Here's a direct link to the crib sheet:

POWER VISION CRIB SHEET


And on a positive note, i picked up a set of plugs on my way from work... double checked the plug cables. No stored trouble codes.
Gaped them, popped em' in, loaded the initial FuelMoto tune just to be sure... fired her up and she purrr'd like a kitten. Went for a quick ride and all is well. Thank God it was that simple, must of been a cracked insulator on a plug or something, nothing I can see with my eye though.

Regardless it's running again, and thats all that matters!

Now, time to go back where I left off and gather another log.

anddd... 1hr later, back from another log.

That whole hesitation, popping, sputtering, hiccuping business is gone. I even made sure to take off well before the engine was at operating temp, just for verification with the warm-up tables, etc... So that's relieving. New plugs were definitely the trick!

As for drive-ability, it feels as good as it gets for running 14.6afr across the board. Only complaint is that it still pops on decel, but I know that's not gonna go away until I switch the AFR's in the 20kpa range.

So here's the MLV plots:





As for modifiable points, I have a lean spot at 10TP-1000rpm, which doesn't make sense to me. If the bike idles at 1000rpm, how is it lean at 10% TP??

And there's a few scattered rich spots, most of which are over 4000rpm and between 0-10% TP. That leads me to believe it happening on decel because it's almost impossible for me to hit those points accelerating. So is that really something to be concerned about?

This is definitely the best looking plot to date, I've never seen such a variation of color without that red blob or a huge amount of blue. I'm concerned if I start pulling VE's in the few blue areas that the troublesome red spot at 10tp-2500rpm will come back.

What would 'yall do from here?
My vote... keep going... Only way to answer the question for sure... If you are able to get those blue blobs to turn light green then you're making worthwhile improvements... If you see the lean spots get effected (grow) from adjustment to the blue area, then you'll know. Also, what's going on above 4200 RPM? Still have that lean spot up there?
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  #1776  
Old 11th July 2012
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Hutch08 Hutch08 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T^2 View Post
My vote... keep going... Only way to answer the question for sure... If you are able to get those blue blobs to turn light green then you're making worthwhile improvements... If you see the lean spots get effected (grow) from adjustment to the blue area, then you'll know. Also, what's going on above 4200 RPM? Still have that lean spot up there?
I guess you're right, the only way to truly know is to go over the limit, then back off. As for above 4200rpm the lean spot is gone, i added a little last fuel last time at 15,20tp - 4500rpm.
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  #1777  
Old 11th July 2012
T^2 T^2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hutch08 View Post
I guess you're right, the only way to truly know is to go over the limit, then back off. As for above 4200rpm the lean spot is gone, i added a little last fuel last time at 15,20tp - 4500rpm.
I can't be sure... But it appears that Calc Tune wasted a fair amount of your time.

I would think of it as if you just started this process when you ditched Calc Tune and started doing this manually. Looking at it from that perspective you haven't done that many runs... at least in comparison to some that came before you.

Another way to look at it... The more you tinker with this the more you learn... Can't be a bad thing...

Soon enough you will arrive at the promise land... in the interim... patience...
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  #1778  
Old 11th July 2012
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Hutch08 Hutch08 is offline
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I don't know if I'd say "wasted" my time... But it definitely got things in the right ballpark. Unfortunately I had some hiccups along the way, logging with the wrong set-up, exhaust leaks, busted plugs, etc...

I've totaled about 20 logs, I'd say half of those were actually valuable.

Calctune actually tightened things up fairly well, it just totally buggered up that one lean area that I was having issues with. For some weird reason it still thinks I should pull VE from that area, although my MLV plots show otherwise.

I think calctune is worth giving a shot though, but as soon as theres signs of it "chasing it's tail" and your not satisfied with the results, give up...

Not to say that a "Calctuned bike" won't run good, but for optimal VE's, plotting with MLV and making manual adjustments are a must.

Ofcourse this is all dependent on the bike, pipes, A/C, etc...

I hope my experience can help others along the way, I've sure learned a lot... And still am.

I'll get this thing tuned someday!


Now... Back to logging.

Sent from my GT-I9000M using Tapatalk
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  #1779  
Old 11th July 2012
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JasonSarratt JasonSarratt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hutch08 View Post
Also to somewhat verify my theory..

By comparing the Tp x MAP x VeNewFront/Rear it shows if I'm lean/rich at low/high MAP.

High MAP= Accel , Low MAP=Decel



The only blue plots at 4000rpm and up are all under 40kpa, so to be at 5%TP 4000rpm and under 40Kpa has to be decel, IMO... Seeing that while cruising my MAP is usually around 50kpa. Also to further verify this, by looking at my timeline there's a direct correlation almost every time the VENew drops its right after the MAP drops.

Same goes for the spike in VE's, every time the VENew spikes to 104, MAP is usually at 20kpa.

Something relieving is that a found a few points where I did some hard accelerating up to 4000rpm, at around 60-70kpa VEnews are within a percent.

Only if I knew how to write those formulas, I'd do one for HD MAP at 20, 25, 30 etc.. increments. Jason??? Haha
Did I not send you the HD map formula to break everything up like the kpa table?

Sent from my LG-P999 using Tapatalk 2
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  #1780  
Old 11th July 2012
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Hutch08 Hutch08 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonSarratt View Post
Did I not send you the HD map formula to break everything up like the kpa table?

Sent from my LG-P999 using Tapatalk 2
Nope only the formulas for HD TPS and HD RPM.



Sent from my GT-I9000M using Tapatalk
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